[Skill] Vampire Drain

Casterial

I just have a general question because this skill has increasingly become popular.

It does a good amount of damage, has a stun, and heals. Here is the thing, with its heighten popularity, mainly because DOTs suck and nothing deals well with dodge roll except it... Could it perhaps use a slight rework?

Heres 3 ideas to match its other skills that are near alike it:
1. Cast time - a low cast time of 0.5 seconds so it has a clear visual, when you animation cancel this skill has almost 0 animation.
2. Damage nerf - Again, due to the no visual, it does a good sum of damage that sometimes just doesn't get represented With no points in Thaumaturge it has 5,500+ damage tooltip.
3. Stun - Slight nerf to stun timer or removal of stun or rework


I'd rather have DOTs boosted back slightly so skills like this didn't exist in general population, especially since this stun is sometimes equal to fear in a sense that it can't be broken due to a bad CC system, but hey... What do you guys think?

xWarbrain

I think its fine the way it is. Anyone using it is a Stage 4 Vamp. Kill them with fire or Fighters Guild skills.

Casterial

xWarbrain wrote: »

I think its fine the way it is. Anyone using it is a Stage 4 Vamp. Kill them with fire or Fighters Guild skills.

While this could work, you have to remember Dawnbreaker cast time almost guts the skill.

Maybe just remove the heal from this skill, or when used decrease vampirism stages so they lose passives while using it.

The only Fighters guild skill to do damage now days is really Dawnbreaker, the only class to carry fire is a destruction staff or a DK with maybe 1 magicka skill.

---

The real solution is re-buff DOTs / rework healing due to the DOT nerfs healing is definitely better now that damage is much lower outside of burst.

if they re-buffed DOTs this skill would kinda vanish and be used minimally and replaced by a DOT.

xWarbrain

Casterial wrote: »

xWarbrain wrote: »

I think its fine the way it is. Anyone using it is a Stage 4 Vamp. Kill them with fire or Fighters Guild skills.

While this could work, you have to remember Dawnbreaker cast time almost guts the skill.

Maybe just remove the heal from this skill, or when used decrease vampirism stages so they lose passives while using it.

The only Fighters guild skill to do damage now days is really Dawnbreaker, the only class to carry fire is a destruction staff or a DK with maybe 1 magicka skill.

Dawnbreaker isn't gutted, it just needs to be timed differently in a burst. You're kind of saying what people should be doing. When one skill starts being over used (i.e. Accelerating Drain), people need to counter this by using another mechanic in the game, rather than suggesting the game be changed by the devs.

In this case, I propose people use more Fighter's Guild skills, or Inferno staves / skills. This requires changing things you're doing currently to counter what you're having trouble playing against. That's the essence of "learning to play". You can't just keep throwing the same abilities out and expecting different results.

You can efficiently slot Dawnbreaker, Trap, Hunter, Fear, Silver shards.

Casterial

xWarbrain wrote: »

Dawnbreaker isn't gutted, it just needs to be timed differently in a burst. You're kind of saying what people should be doing. When one skill starts being over used (i.e. Accelerating Drain), people need to counter this by using another mechanic in the game, rather than suggesting the game be changed by the devs.


You can efficiently slot Dawnbreaker, Trap, Hunter, Fear, Silver shards.

So many things to that one bolded line can tell you devs don't care about learn to play. Can tell you, Dawnbreaker will not end someone, even when lined up properly.

Also, as I said before please read this:
Perhaps DOTs being nerfed is the true issue and the broken CC system

It could ultimately not be the skill, but remember these devs nerf off % usage, not "OP" or "underpowered" they nerf based off usage data and they've shown it when defending their points.

Maxdevil

Casterial wrote: »

I just have a general question because this skill has increasingly become popular.

It does a good amount of damage, has a stun, and heals. Here is the thing, with its heighten popularity, mainly because DOTs suck and nothing deals well with dodge roll except it... Could it perhaps use a slight rework?

Heres 3 ideas to match its other skills that are near alike it:
1. Cast time - a low cast time of 0.5 seconds so it has a clear visual, when you animation cancel this skill has almost 0 animation.
2. Damage nerf - Again, due to the no visual, it does a good sum of damage that sometimes just doesn't get represented With no points in Thaumaturge it has 5,500+ damage tooltip.
3. Stun - Slight nerf to stun timer or removal of stun


I'd rather have DOTs boosted back slightly so skills like this didn't exist in general population, especially since this stun is sometimes equal to fear in a sense that it can't be broken due to a bad CC system, but hey... What do you guys think?

If we follow your ideas no one would probably use that ability that is suppose to a bit better than other skills because it’s vampire restricted. The damage is fine in my opinion, there’s no need to add a cast time the stun tho maybe need some rework

Casterial

Maxdevil wrote: »

If we follow your ideas no one would probably use that ability that is suppose to a bit better than other skills because it’s vampire restricted. The damage is fine in my opinion, there’s no need to add a cast time the stun tho maybe need some rework

Yeah I could care less about everything with the skill, mainly the stun. The stun has been notoriously broken for sometime

idk

Casterial wrote: »

I'd rather have DOTs boosted back slightly so skills like this didn't exist in general population, especially since this stun is sometimes equal to fear in a sense that it can't be broken due to a bad CC system, but hey..

This makes not sense. OP is suggesting removing the DoT (3 second channel) for something that is instant and can be animation canceled yet wants to boost DoTs slightly? Maybe I missed something of there is a glaring hole in the explanation given.

There is nothing like Drain Essence and it's morphs. That is the skill I assume OP is talking about. It has some good benefits at a cost which is something OP does not try to address or consider.

Solariken

Casterial wrote: »

Maxdevil wrote: »

If we follow your ideas no one would probably use that ability that is suppose to a bit better than other skills because it’s vampire restricted. The damage is fine in my opinion, there’s no need to add a cast time the stun tho maybe need some rework

Yeah I could care less about everything with the skill, mainly the stun. The stun has been notoriously broken for sometime

It might be kinda neat to make the stun only occur if the caster is below 50%. Or maybe if the caster has less health than the victim. At least that would make it less punishing Xv1.

Olupajmibanan

Just make the stun last only while you are channeling. No more cast->animation cancel->do anything else while your enemy tries to break free. It is supposed to be a channeled skill, not an on-demand instant cast hard CC.

Casterial

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Just make the stun last only while you are channeling. No more cast->animation cancel->do anything else while your enemy tries to break free. It is supposed to be a channeled skill, not an on-demand instant cast hard CC.

Yeah, this is potential a great fix. I honestly hate the stun, it feels clunky

idk wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

I'd rather have DOTs boosted back slightly so skills like this didn't exist in general population, especially since this stun is sometimes equal to fear in a sense that it can't be broken due to a bad CC system, but hey..

This makes not sense. OP is suggesting removing the DoT (3 second channel) for something that is instant and can be animation canceled yet wants to boost DoTs slightly? Maybe I missed something of there is a glaring hole in the explanation given.

There is nothing like Drain Essence and it's morphs. That is the skill I assume OP is talking about. It has some good benefits at a cost which is something OP does not try to address or consider.

See the above quota. He makes a lot of sense. The skill is a channel, but doesn't act like one. You can't animation cancel jabs without losing something.

And DOTs made it so people could deal with Dodge Roll another way, the main use of Vamp Drain is to deal with Dodge Roll.

cheifsoap

Yes, lets make this game even more unfun with more nerfs.

Casterial

cheifsoap wrote: »

Yes, lets make this game even more unfun with more nerfs.

Done, CP nerfs schedule for this year before June

cheifsoap

Casterial wrote: »

cheifsoap wrote: »

Yes, lets make this game even more unfun with more nerfs.

Done, CP nerfs schedule for this year before June

Source?

Casterial

cheifsoap wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

cheifsoap wrote: »

Yes, lets make this game even more unfun with more nerfs.

Done, CP nerfs schedule for this year before June

Source?

Didn't you look at their time line? Q1 2020
U25



They've stated CP is intended to be looked at here (since they froze CP due to issues with it)

They froze CP due to it becoming a problem in balance, they've been looking into it and also have multiple other nerfs plan for U25.

And I stated before June, because June is typically around the time a Chapter is coming out / being tested.

cheifsoap

Casterial wrote: »

cheifsoap wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

cheifsoap wrote: »

Yes, lets make this game even more unfun with more nerfs.

Done, CP nerfs schedule for this year before June

Source?

Didn't you look at their time line? Q1 2020
U25

They've stated CP is intended to be looked at here (since they froze CP due to issues with it)

They froze CP due to it becoming a problem in balance, they've been looking into it and also have multiple other nerfs plan for U25.

I fail to see where CP is being removed or nerfed or anything else you've implied.

Casterial

cheifsoap wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

cheifsoap wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

cheifsoap wrote: »

Yes, lets make this game even more unfun with more nerfs.

Done, CP nerfs schedule for this year before June

Source?

Didn't you look at their time line? Q1 2020
U25

They've stated CP is intended to be looked at here (since they froze CP due to issues with it)

They froze CP due to it becoming a problem in balance, they've been looking into it and also have multiple other nerfs plan for U25.

I fail to see where CP is being removed or nerfed or anything else you've implied.

Please look at their reason of freezing CP at 810.
https://fextralife.com/elder-scrolls-online-the-champion-system-the-future-of-eso-in-2019/

CP was frozen and in an August 2019 Q&A they said upcoming patches will be finally addressing the freezing of CP.
CP was frozen due to a power creep last year.

Iskiab

Casterial wrote: »

cheifsoap wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

cheifsoap wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

cheifsoap wrote: »

Yes, lets make this game even more unfun with more nerfs.

Done, CP nerfs schedule for this year before June

Source?

Didn't you look at their time line? Q1 2020
U25

They've stated CP is intended to be looked at here (since they froze CP due to issues with it)

They froze CP due to it becoming a problem in balance, they've been looking into it and also have multiple other nerfs plan for U25.

I fail to see where CP is being removed or nerfed or anything else you've implied.

Please look at their reason of freezing CP at 810.
https://fextralife.com/elder-scrolls-online-the-champion-system-the-future-of-eso-in-2019/

CP was frozen and in an August 2019 Q&A they said upcoming patches will be finally addressing the freezing of CP.
CP was frozen due to a power creep last year.

Oh oh, get your skills leveled now. It’s about to become hard to solo public dungeons and world bosses with one button, loading up your skill bars with skills just for leveling.

Noxavian

Casterial wrote: »

I just have a general question because this skill has increasingly become popular.

It does a good amount of damage, has a stun, and heals. Here is the thing, with its heighten popularity, mainly because DOTs suck and nothing deals well with dodge roll except it... Could it perhaps use a slight rework?

Heres 3 ideas to match its other skills that are near alike it:
1. Cast time - a low cast time of 0.5 seconds so it has a clear visual, when you animation cancel this skill has almost 0 animation.
2. Damage nerf - Again, due to the no visual, it does a good sum of damage that sometimes just doesn't get represented With no points in Thaumaturge it has 5,500+ damage tooltip.
3. Stun - Slight nerf to stun timer or removal of stun or rework


I'd rather have DOTs boosted back slightly so skills like this didn't exist in general population, especially since this stun is sometimes equal to fear in a sense that it can't be broken due to a bad CC system, but hey... What do you guys think?

imagine trying to nerf an already balanced skill. Stop complaining.

Neoauspex

Make all skills like Vamp drain, not the other way around. Great if used appropriately, punishing if used unwisely, kiss/curse for slotting (being Vamp in this case).

KageNin

It's another issue of how skill works not how it's designed , because in it's design it's fine, but as people above say you cast it then animation cancel and person is still stunned while you can go doing anything , and breaking free from it sometimes doesn't work as the indication that your stunned is sometimes not there or you just can't break free. Now we all know how they go about fixing skills so a rework will be in place one day

gepe87

But this skill is untouched for a loooooong time. Suddenly people found it OP because it has some use

cheifsoap

Casterial wrote: »

cheifsoap wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

cheifsoap wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

cheifsoap wrote: »

Yes, lets make this game even more unfun with more nerfs.

Done, CP nerfs schedule for this year before June

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/490953/u23-combat-q-a/p1

Source?

Didn't you look at their time line? Q1 2020
U25

They've stated CP is intended to be looked at here (since they froze CP due to issues with it)

They froze CP due to it becoming a problem in balance, they've been looking into it and also have multiple other nerfs plan for U25.

I fail to see where CP is being removed or nerfed or anything else you've implied.

Please look at their reason of freezing CP at 810.
https://fextralife.com/elder-scrolls-online-the-champion-system-the-future-of-eso-in-2019/

CP was frozen and in an August 2019 Q&A they said upcoming patches will be finally addressing the freezing of CP.
CP was frozen due to a power creep last year.

I think you fail to see how evidence works, these are simply potential solutions by no one official; nothing said by ZOS directly states that CP (1)go away completely or (2)be nerfed, their context of "addressing" is vague at best. The only fact presented in anything they've stated is that it will be;

"When do you expect to start reworking/auditing the Champion Point system?
We’re actually working on it internally right now, but in terms of when we’re going to get something out publicly, that’s not anytime soon."
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/490953/u23-combat-q-a/p1

Back to the topic - nerfing vamp drain is a terrible idea

brandonv516

I see Vampire as a whole getting adjustments. I can't see this skill making it out unscathed.

Casterial

gepe87 wrote: »

But this skill is untouched for a loooooong time. Suddenly people found it OP because it has some use

Nah its not overpowered, but with our clunky crappy CC system this skill is one of the only untouched ones to remain. Fear had a lot of rework and still has the issues here and there but knockbacks and this are still there as a harmful CC.

Casterial

KageNin wrote: »

It's another issue of how skill works not how it's designed , because in it's design it's fine, but as people above say you cast it then animation cancel and person is still stunned while you can go doing anything , and breaking free from it sometimes doesn't work as the indication that your stunned is sometimes not there or you just can't break free. Now we all know how they go about fixing skills so a rework will be in place one day

We will potentially see, honestly this post will turn more into "fix the cc system ZOS"

NBrookus

Casterial wrote: »

KageNin wrote: »

It's another issue of how skill works not how it's designed , because in it's design it's fine, but as people above say you cast it then animation cancel and person is still stunned while you can go doing anything , and breaking free from it sometimes doesn't work as the indication that your stunned is sometimes not there or you just can't break free. Now we all know how they go about fixing skills so a rework will be in place one day

We will potentially see, honestly this post will turn more into "fix the cc system ZOS"

It's the CC system.

When you see magblades and magsorcs and even magDKs using vamp drain instead of their own stuns, you know it's people exploiting the problems breaking it. Same with Javelin.

I'd consider giving it a range reduction to be more in line with Fear or Fossilize to probably be appropriate, but it'd be much better if they fixed the CC break so it's clean like Foss or Fear first and then see how it performs. And this is doable -- Fear used to be really buggy to break but since they reworked it it's been no worse than any other CC in lag.

iCaliban

Force pulse on identical gear/cp does 13k. No one thinks force pulse is op