fully separate pve/pvp

Sevn

Cirantille wrote: »

I don't see why PvE'rs feel so bad about being killed by an intelligent-human-being but feeling ok about being killed by scripted dumb, not-capable-of-crit damage NPCs or bosses.

Seriously, you have nothing to lose. Only annoying thing about being killed is the horse simulator since Cyrodiil is huge.

You don't lose anything. Literally, anything.

Why do Pvper's feel good killing another person no better than a dumb npc? What's the difference? Does killing a "dumb" npc lessen your "accomplishment"? Does it not feed the ego the same way? Do you feel smarter killing a person who is no better at defending themselves than the dumb npc's Pvper's say they hate?

Joy_Division

Trust me, you better off not trying to get the Cyordiil Explorer achievement that requires you to kill dungeon bosses.

TheRealPotoroo

idk wrote: »

You do not have to go into Cyrodiil. That is a choice.

Zos clearly and specifically chose to place PvE content into Cyrodiil. By design it is clear Zos intends for OP to risk dealing with PvP if they want to complete the PvE achievements that come with the quests in Cyrodiil. As such if you want the rewards then deal with it. Otherwise move on to the next zone.

But ZOS flat out refuse to make it feasible for players to switch between PVE and PVP builds, so PVE players are always automatically at a massive disadvantage in PVP areas (and vice versa). Unless and until ZOS implement a locker room nobody is going to be happy about this or the balancing problems that ZOS's arrogance inflicts upon everybody. It's obvious why ZOS want to force players to experience both major modes but the way they've done it is fundamentally broken and we have no realistic hope of them ever admitting and fixing their mistake. So if having PVE-only instancing or whatever is the work around then so be it.

Nestor

It is easy to avoid PVP in Cyrodiil.

1. Play on the Resource Campaign in off hours. Even trying, you probably wont see another player. Even during busier times, if you avoid the areas under battle you will rarely see another player, and those are usually getting to the resource in question as the AP for killing you is small.
2. Monitor the map for the resource campaign so when your Alliance dominates the map, as it will at least once a day, you can go through the gates to get behind enemy lines for those shards and content.
3. If you encounter another player, either hold block or stay on your horse. Both are signals that you are passive. If you get killed, rez at a keep far away and explore that area.

DreamsUnderStars

Nah, I am ok with Cyrodil the way it is, being the pvp zone and all. MUCH better than open world gankfests. Even the BGs are fun and I've never been a huge pvp fan.

What ZOS should do is do like Guild Wars did, and separate pvp and pve skills. If you played GW 1 or 2 then you know what I mean. For those that don't, separation of the two would mean that pvp buffs/nerfs to skills don't effect pve.

Sevn

I want to be clear I'm not one asking for a pve cyro or anything like that, I've long accepted to expect pvp in a pvp zone. Hell I'd be lying if I didn't admit to actually enjoying myself most times while pvping whether it's zerging in cyro, slumming in the sewers or getting ganged up on in BG's after having terrible perceptions about pvp land. Some was true, others overblown.

But it should be noted it is a hell of a lot more "challenging" switching from pve mode to pvp. It truly is a different game and it blows my mind why Zos refuses to acknowledge what every single one of their player base that has experienced both realizes from day one stepping into cyro.

To be truly effective one must change gear/skills/CP and probably food. Pvper's don't have to do that crap to complete Undaunted, the content most used to compare to the "struggle" of having to do pve content in a pve focused game. Stop using Undaunted as your go to defense. It just takes you guys time, but very little effort as great as most of you are.

I'm a casual and can solo tons of dungeons, 3/4 Pvper's should be able to group up without changing anything and make a mockery of the pve content. When you die in pve land you respawn right there, not half a mile from where you were, thereby hindering and slowing down your progress.

Nothing more frustrating than getting killed by "yolo1vXchamp" right before you're about to complete a pve objective, spawn half a click away and get killed again by another 1vX champ who just had to kill you because omg my ap! Nope, they think it's because you can't "handle" dying to another human. Such egos. I'm concerned about losing my time/progress, not losing to "1vXchampcantbeatme".

"Play on a low pop server during off hours". I see this so often. This is great advice for anyone who can schedule their playing time as such, not very feasible for most adults with limited time and usually can get all their gaming done when convenient.

It's so much more than pver's being "scary" of dying to big bad Pvper's.

mocap

i actually agree to get rid of Cyro PvE quests and stuff. Maybe it will help a bit with all that lags and ton of disconnects.

January1171

I did all of the cyro pve (quests, skyshards, delves, dolmens) content with a pve build, 90% of which was during NA prime time, and was killed very few times. Yes, it takes a little extra time and consideration to where exactly you're going, but there is nothing game breaking if you decide to completely avoid cyro.

PVP is part of the game. If you want full completion, you have to encounter a little bit of pvp.

idk

.

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

idk wrote: »

You do not have to go into Cyrodiil. That is a choice.

Zos clearly and specifically chose to place PvE content into Cyrodiil. By design it is clear Zos intends for OP to risk dealing with PvP if they want to complete the PvE achievements that come with the quests in Cyrodiil. As such if you want the rewards then deal with it. Otherwise move on to the next zone.

But ZOS flat out refuse to make it feasible for players to switch between PVE and PVP builds, so PVE players are always automatically at a massive disadvantage in PVP areas (and vice versa). Unless and until ZOS implement a locker room nobody is going to be happy about this or the balancing problems that ZOS's arrogance inflicts upon everybody. It's obvious why ZOS want to force players to experience both major modes but the way they've done it is fundamentally broken and we have no realistic hope of them ever admitting and fixing their mistake. So if having PVE-only instancing or whatever is the work around then so be it.

Interesting choice of words.

Zos does make changing between PvE and PvP builds very possible and it is not to inconvenient since we can easily change the specific morphs we want to change. Further, I have raided with a number of players who constantly go from PvP to raiding with top trial teams on their server.

Even more to the point I have completed all the Cyrodiil quests and all the dungeons on three characters and have obtained the all the sky on even more. When doing that I did not bother to change my build and was able to do just fine.

So back to the point. Zos specifically chose to place those dungeons, PvE quests, and sky shards, not to mentioned related titles behind a PvP wall. Zos is literally saying if you want them then you will have to risk PvP regardless of whatever reasons you find challenging about that. That message is pretty clear.

D0PAMINE

Sevn wrote: »

Cirantille wrote: »

I don't see why PvE'rs feel so bad about being killed by an intelligent-human-being but feeling ok about being killed by scripted dumb, not-capable-of-crit damage NPCs or bosses.

Seriously, you have nothing to lose. Only annoying thing about being killed is the horse simulator since Cyrodiil is huge.

You don't lose anything. Literally, anything.

Why do Pvper's feel good killing another person no better than a dumb npc? What's the difference? Does killing a "dumb" npc lessen your "accomplishment"? Does it not feed the ego the same way? Do you feel smarter killing a person who is no better at defending themselves than the dumb npc's Pvper's say they hate?

Anyone can PvP and PvE with practice. I can understand if someone has a disability, but this thread is making a huge deal out of a tiny issue, and im speaking of arguements from both sides.

TheFM

Dont go to cyro, problem solved. If the achievements are in cyro, they are by default not pve achievements.

TheFM

JJBoomer wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

If you don’t like pvp then why are you going into cyrodiil? There’s no need.

there are quests, lore books, skyshards, dolmens and delves in Cyrodiil that for most PvE players will miss out on because they dont like or want to PvP and as ZOS has said this game was designed to played how we want, i'm all for PvE players having a version of Cyrodiil its a major part of Tamriel Lore for one. just as PvP'ers can duel without penalty in PvE zones why should the PvE players not have a free pass to content?

Play how you want literally means "Battle, craft, fish, steal, siege, or explore. The choice is yours to make in a persistent Elder Scrolls world."

And besides, if you want to talk about playing the way you want then let's talk about playing the way I want. With the dangerous, war stricten Cyrodiil we have now.

well in a pve version of cyrodiil, they could have NPC armies fighting the 3 alliances war, and pve'ers could battle with and kill them if need be. to keep with the "dangerous, war stricken part"

No one wants to take anything away from pvp'ers. But why should pvper's get to pvp in pve areas (duels) but not vice versa. I'm not proposing to get rid of PVP cyrodiil. Just offer a non pvp counterpart for those of us that want to experience the zone but not deal with players that just want to give other people are hard time for no reason.

Dealing with griefers is not "getting out of our comfort zone". its being harassed and having your experience manipulated.

Another option would be another setting that would have an icon or something appear above your character to alert people pvp'ing that you are questing. And it would always be visible. The problem is that a choice exists one way but not the other.

pvp'ers would literally have nothing to lose here. You'd still have your pvp version of Cyrodiil, and pve'ers would have a npc filled version.

You can pve fine in cyro, just choose a dead campaign.

CassandraGemini

TheFM wrote: »

Dont go to cyro, problem solved. If the achievements are in cyro, they are by default not pve achievements.

I'm not arguing the general point here - if you go to Cyro, you might have to deal with pvp, that's a risk you need to take. But how exactly are the delve or quest achievements there related to pvp? Because they're really not, except for the chance to run into other people who probably want to kill you, these achievements have nothing to do with pvp whatsoever, they're clearly pve-related only.

Loves_guars

I totally forgot Cyrodiil exists. You don't really need it friend.

Cirantille

Sevn wrote: »

Cirantille wrote: »

I don't see why PvE'rs feel so bad about being killed by an intelligent-human-being but feeling ok about being killed by scripted dumb, not-capable-of-crit damage NPCs or bosses.

Seriously, you have nothing to lose. Only annoying thing about being killed is the horse simulator since Cyrodiil is huge.

You don't lose anything. Literally, anything.

Why do Pvper's feel good killing another person no better than a dumb npc? What's the difference? Does killing a "dumb" npc lessen your "accomplishment"? Does it not feed the ego the same way? Do you feel smarter killing a person who is no better at defending themselves than the dumb npc's Pvper's say they hate?

I have never done such a thing tbh. It is wrong to assume every PvPer waits for PvErs to come in.
Like how much AP I will get from killing you really? 300-400?
I make about 300-500k in a few hours
There are more interesting things to do in Cyrodiil than waiting for a full-divines PvEr to come in so I can gank

Though I have no idea who is a PvEr and who is not

Though we both quite high ranked we didnt kill each other in zones or delves with other PVPers

Kudos to that DC guy who unsheathed to my low level alt lol

Kudos to those EP and DC people who danced and dueled with us 1 by 1 on Sej rocks tonight -on PC EU Bahlokdaan

Hapexamendios

I just went to dead campaigns to do it. The 7 day campaign seems to have a pretty low population. That's the one I went to.

Contaminate

Yeah no we don’t need a PvE Cyro, it’d be an empty wasteland. We need to remove the methods of griefing and cheating, aka take out quest giver doors to make it all the same zone of play, or make building interiors safe zones like Imperial City’s quest rooms.

Fighting over towns is standard and intended gameplay. Afk horse simulator for abandoned gates and unattended strategic military outposts, is not intended gameplay.

MajBludd

@Contaminate why do the interiors need safe zones? Its pvp in cyro.

Get a big group together and zerg them out. If you can't, why should you be able to quest in a town not owned by your faction?

If they make it a safe zone inside the buildings they'll just wait outside for you.

Juzz

Sevn wrote: »

Cirantille wrote: »

I don't see why PvE'rs feel so bad about being killed by an intelligent-human-being but feeling ok about being killed by scripted dumb, not-capable-of-crit damage NPCs or bosses.

Seriously, you have nothing to lose. Only annoying thing about being killed is the horse simulator since Cyrodiil is huge.

You don't lose anything. Literally, anything.

Why do Pvper's feel good killing another person no better than a dumb npc? What's the difference? Does killing a "dumb" npc lessen your "accomplishment"? Does it not feed the ego the same way? Do you feel smarter killing a person who is no better at defending themselves than the dumb npc's Pvper's say they hate?

It’s a hard-hard world - predator kills the prey 😊
Can’t stand - don’t go. It’s not the best move to go to the wilderness and tell a grizzly, that ye have some business here, so he shouldn’t rip yer head off, innit?

It’s times of tolerance hypes, but ye can’t change the nature of beings.

Mr_Walker

MerguezMan wrote: »

A redesign would be clunky as it would void existing achievements, and leave a huge empty zone (for those who don't go there, I can tell at least 30% of the area is just a no-man's land with nothing to do or see unless a zerg is passing by).

Only 30%? I'd say closer to 80%.

They'd be very very bored.....

Mr_Walker

Juzz wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Cirantille wrote: »

I don't see why PvE'rs feel so bad about being killed by an intelligent-human-being but feeling ok about being killed by scripted dumb, not-capable-of-crit damage NPCs or bosses.

Seriously, you have nothing to lose. Only annoying thing about being killed is the horse simulator since Cyrodiil is huge.

You don't lose anything. Literally, anything.

Why do Pvper's feel good killing another person no better than a dumb npc? What's the difference? Does killing a "dumb" npc lessen your "accomplishment"? Does it not feed the ego the same way? Do you feel smarter killing a person who is no better at defending themselves than the dumb npc's Pvper's say they hate?

It’s a hard-hard world - predator kills the prey 😊
Can’t stand - don’t go. It’s not the best move to go to the wilderness and tell a grizzly, that ye have some business here, so he shouldn’t rip yer head off, innit?

LOL. They're people playing a video game. I'll bet 99.9% of them are about as far from being a predator as you can get.

Matchimus

I'm 99% pve bit my most favorite achievements were catching the fish & collecting skyshards in cyrodiil. 3 of the 4 skyshards behind enemy gates were collected when the other enemy faction took the gate. Took several attempts sneaking around using invisibility potions before I got them but the adrenlin!

TempPlayer

Matchimus wrote: »

I'm 99% pve bit my most favorite achievements were catching the fish & collecting skyshards in cyrodiil. 3 of the 4 skyshards behind enemy gates were collected when the other enemy faction took the gate. Took several attempts sneaking around using invisibility potions before I got them but the adrenlin!

Or you can just ride the mount and sprint pass them. Keep sprinting on foot even when they hit you off the mount. Those mob are tightly leashed to the gate that they don't give much chase. Can easily outrun them even with a Magicka toon.

Sevn

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Cirantille wrote: »

I don't see why PvE'rs feel so bad about being killed by an intelligent-human-being but feeling ok about being killed by scripted dumb, not-capable-of-crit damage NPCs or bosses.

Seriously, you have nothing to lose. Only annoying thing about being killed is the horse simulator since Cyrodiil is huge.

You don't lose anything. Literally, anything.

Why do Pvper's feel good killing another person no better than a dumb npc? What's the difference? Does killing a "dumb" npc lessen your "accomplishment"? Does it not feed the ego the same way? Do you feel smarter killing a person who is no better at defending themselves than the dumb npc's Pvper's say they hate?

Anyone can PvP and PvE with practice. I can understand if someone has a disability, but this thread is making a huge deal out of a tiny issue, and im speaking of arguements from both sides.

No offense but you're taking my post out of context making a point in an argument no one is having. My post isn't about learning mechanics or "getting gud". My post is responding to their point about pver's being afraid of dying to another human questioning what's the difference between a pvper killing npc's and bad pver's who can't compete with dedicated Pvper's. There is zero challenge there, the very reason so many claim to prefer pvp over pve.

Contaminate

MajBludd wrote: »

@/Contaminate why do the interiors need safe zones? Its pvp in cyro.

Get a big group together and zerg them out. If you can't, why should you be able to quest in a town not owned by your faction?

If they make it a safe zone inside the buildings they'll just wait outside for you.

Because building interiors are entire different instances that require a load screen by design, and people blatantly and with full intent exploit that required and intended loadscreen in order to kill players before they have any ability to input defensive or offensive actions.

Town building interiors should be safe zones or they should be one continuous space so people can engage in the fight, just like was done with tower doors.

If a group is waiting outside to fight anyone coming to the town, that’s intended. That’s actual PvP. Door camping exploits, just like intentionally glitching onto alliance-balconies to kill people while they load in is not PvP, it’s purely griefing.

Sevn

Cirantille wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Cirantille wrote: »

I don't see why PvE'rs feel so bad about being killed by an intelligent-human-being but feeling ok about being killed by scripted dumb, not-capable-of-crit damage NPCs or bosses.

Seriously, you have nothing to lose. Only annoying thing about being killed is the horse simulator since Cyrodiil is huge.

You don't lose anything. Literally, anything.

Why do Pvper's feel good killing another person no better than a dumb npc? What's the difference? Does killing a "dumb" npc lessen your "accomplishment"? Does it not feed the ego the same way? Do you feel smarter killing a person who is no better at defending themselves than the dumb npc's Pvper's say they hate?

I have never done such a thing tbh. It is wrong to assume every PvPer waits for PvErs to come in.
Like how much AP I will get from killing you really? 300-400?
I make about 300-500k in a few hours
There are more interesting things to do in Cyrodiil than waiting for a full-divines PvEr to come in so I can gank

Though I have no idea who is a PvEr and who is not

Though we both quite high ranked we didnt kill each other in zones or delves with other PVPers

Kudos to that DC guy who unsheathed to my low level alt lol

Kudos to those EP and DC people who danced and dueled with us 1 by 1 on Sej rocks tonight -on PC EU Bahlokdaan

I wasn't assuming anything friend, I was asking genuine questions. I agree, it's wrong to assume. Funny you did so by suggesting pver's don't like to pvp because they are afraid of dying to another human. That simply isn't accurate and frankly a bit demeaning.

Sevn

Juzz wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Cirantille wrote: »

I don't see why PvE'rs feel so bad about being killed by an intelligent-human-being but feeling ok about being killed by scripted dumb, not-capable-of-crit damage NPCs or bosses.

Seriously, you have nothing to lose. Only annoying thing about being killed is the horse simulator since Cyrodiil is huge.

You don't lose anything. Literally, anything.

Why do Pvper's feel good killing another person no better than a dumb npc? What's the difference? Does killing a "dumb" npc lessen your "accomplishment"? Does it not feed the ego the same way? Do you feel smarter killing a person who is no better at defending themselves than the dumb npc's Pvper's say they hate?

It’s a hard-hard world - predator kills the prey 😊
Can’t stand - don’t go. It’s not the best move to go to the wilderness and tell a grizzly, that ye have some business here, so he shouldn’t rip yer head off, innit?

It’s times of tolerance hypes, but ye can’t change the nature of beings.

I think I have clearly stated my sentiments on cyro but I'll reiterate, I have zero issue with how cyro is currently set up. Just would be nice if folks would stop pretending they are pvping for the competition all while posting comments like yours relishing at slaughtering a bunch of potatoes offering no more challenge than the pve npc's they claim to be too easy.

I'd imagine a big ole Grizzlie bear wouldn't waste his time on a fluffy white rabbit unless he was looking for something soft to wipe his backside with after a dump. Much more meaningful prey to be had if he were looking for a meal don't you think?

TheFM

CassandraGemini wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Dont go to cyro, problem solved. If the achievements are in cyro, they are by default not pve achievements.

I'm not arguing the general point here - if you go to Cyro, you might have to deal with pvp, that's a risk you need to take. But how exactly are the delve or quest achievements there related to pvp? Because they're really not, except for the chance to run into other people who probably want to kill you, these achievements have nothing to do with pvp whatsoever, they're clearly pve-related only.

they are in a pvp zone, so they are pvp achievements. The bosses there even give u ap boosts, intended for pvp.

idk

CassandraGemini wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Dont go to cyro, problem solved. If the achievements are in cyro, they are by default not pve achievements.

I'm not arguing the general point here - if you go to Cyro, you might have to deal with pvp, that's a risk you need to take. But how exactly are the delve or quest achievements there related to pvp? Because they're really not, except for the chance to run into other people who probably want to kill you, these achievements have nothing to do with pvp whatsoever, they're clearly pve-related only.

How are they related to PvP? Easy. Zos clearly chose to put them into a PvP zone. That means Zos specifically decided that if players wanted the related achievements and titles player would have to risk PvP. That also means Zos is saying if you do not want to risk facing PvP then you will not get those achievements. It really is that simple.

People are making this out to be more than it really is. As long as one chooses one of the several empty campaigns and does not try this during MYM getting attacked by a player while doing the PvE quests and delves in Cyrodiil is pretty rare. If it happens, oh well, you do not lose anything and it is not that big of a deal.

Sylvermynx

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Juzz wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Cirantille wrote: »

I don't see why PvE'rs feel so bad about being killed by an intelligent-human-being but feeling ok about being killed by scripted dumb, not-capable-of-crit damage NPCs or bosses.

Seriously, you have nothing to lose. Only annoying thing about being killed is the horse simulator since Cyrodiil is huge.

You don't lose anything. Literally, anything.

Why do Pvper's feel good killing another person no better than a dumb npc? What's the difference? Does killing a "dumb" npc lessen your "accomplishment"? Does it not feed the ego the same way? Do you feel smarter killing a person who is no better at defending themselves than the dumb npc's Pvper's say they hate?

It’s a hard-hard world - predator kills the prey 😊
Can’t stand - don’t go. It’s not the best move to go to the wilderness and tell a grizzly, that ye have some business here, so he shouldn’t rip yer head off, innit?

LOL. They're people playing a video game. I'll bet 99.9% of them are about as far from being a predator as you can get.

Eh well.... I've done "predator" over my years. I've hunted - and butchered what I harvested. And I've had to kill other predators.... cougar after my horses; bobcats trying for us up the mountain trails....

So yah, it's a fun game. But I know the RL side too.