Templar - being a healer and tank at the same time?

QueenOfAvalon

Hi guys,

first of all I would like to welcome myself back, I've had this game since beta and sadly been playing other stuff in the last few years but SOOO happy to be back, loving the content and the community, everything and everyone is awesome.

Even though I am not new to the game, I do feel like a complete newb, so here is my question:

I kinda enjoy both healing and tanking (I'm doing heal role only in dungeons), I was wondering if I have separate sets for tanking and healing, can I manage switching between roles and are the same attribs okay to handle both of them?
To clarify, I don't mean I want to tank AND heal in the same dungeon, I mean doing both roles separately.

I cannot compare attribs as at the moment I am just enjoying the content and playing casually, so right now I'm on full magicka.


Any feedback is appreciated, have an awesome day!

BaiterOfZergs

You should have different sets and attributes, maybe in the older dungeons you could pull off using the same sets/spec but not so much in newer content.

fiender66

In a way, this is what I do with my magden (breton 50 400CP).
I do not enjoy the stress of doing a real dungeon as a healer, I'm not enough good for that, nor I have an adequate set.

Then, I have a solo/damage bar (class skills and destro), and a heal backbar (resto and class skills). I'm able to solo any dungeon and many WB, and I act as an extemporaneous healer in dolmens and whenever I meet the right situation in a dungeon. People is usually happy and grateful, and do not complain if I'm not perfect.

My set is a mix of Vanus and Gloom. The heal rec is really insane and the DPS decent

Radiance

When it comes to attributes, Magicka is for Magic DPS, Stamina is for Stam DPS and Health is For Tanking.

Your Magic and Stam will determine how much Damage/ Sustain you have as a DPS(Or Healer) and for tanks it is different. As a tank, you're just a punching bag, so you need HP to withstand the Barrage of incoming DMG BUT you also need Stamina to Hold your Guard with a Shield.

If you want to be an effective End Game Healer, then you need to go FULL Magicka, if you want to be a Good Tank you need A LOT of HP and at least a Decent Resource Sustain so your Attributes will be a bit more evenly divided. If you die too easily you may need more HP, if you die bc you're running out of stam to block, then more stam, if you want to be a Heal/Tank, you're also gonna need some Magicka unless you pick a class that has Stamina or HP based Heals.

Role and build doesn't reeeeeeally matter until End game content then you have to commit for the sake of the group but when it comes to Normal and Open World Content, it doesn't really matter, you can be whatever you want to be.

Find the Role you're committed to on a particular character for CP stats and just keep some DPS Sets or other roles in your inventory. They usually get the job done, there's no sense in running around as a Healer/ Tank in open world tho bc it will just take you longer to do stuff unless you have a Damage Dealing partner or facing WBs and such.

You don't really need a solid built until you Hit 160 and can keep your gear and go into Champion Points, then I suggest you Youtube a Good Build for the Role you've taken a liking to... That's all

zvavi

*** mate i read only the start and started already theory crafting for a tank heal hybrid that is efficient...

Tbh yes, easily possible to tank and heal on the same character, just remember that since all your attributes are in Magicka, you will have to lean more towards magicka abilities while tanking, leaving stamina to taunt+block+dodge (and chain if mechanics require) you can easily pass the 30k health with all attributes in magicka, and is enough for most content in game. Swapping gear is essential, you will need tanking gear (on my sorc i was running ebon+jorvuld's, with jorvuld's not even being a meta tanking set) and i did manage to survive vMHK (not hm though), so i was tanky enough.
For min maxing obviously you wont be able to run the same character without change in attributes.

Side note: in dungeons i would use symphony of blades regardless if u r healer or tank. Tank + blood altar + symphony = profit

Bradyfjord

We should understand the underlying mechanics behind magicka/staming builds and what makes them work, and we also need to understand that tanking is a 'hybrid' role due to its nature.

Tanking requires a certain threshold of health depending on content. The generally accepted threshold for pugs is 30k. I prefer to look at it as between 30 and 40, although it's good to have lots of health on a tank.

But as you focus on health, it sacrifices magicka and stamina which you will need to activate abilities related to tanking. There are many choices on how to accomplish the role, and you need to consider how it is handled. The following is a short list of priorities for tanks, and can be worked into a build with both stamina and magicka options in different ways.

• Taunting
• CC, especially with adds
• Survival (mitigation and self healing)
• Resource Sustain
• Blocking/Dodging

All of the above applies to dps and heals also, but they can specialize on their preferred stats (magicka/stamina) to a much greater degree. This means their builds are fundamentally different from tanking.

Just my 2 copper.

Asardes

Templar is one of the weakest classes for tanking but it can manage dungeons just fine. I recommend using a stamina templar as starting point though, since you will need the respective morphs to sustain blocking. You can off-heal quite effectively using Ritual of Retribution and Repentance.

validifyedneb18_ESO

I have tried this, with somewhat significant effort but not exhaustively, and found that its probably not viable in the high end. It may just about be viable for normal mode trials but the main thing your fighting with is where your camera is pointing and where your healing is being directed, rather than any particular build.

Toon_Raider

Battalion Defender for heal tank @QueenOfAvalon

Kelces

Toon_Raider wrote: »

Battalion Defender for heal tank @QueenOfAvalon

Agreed, I combined the "Sanctuary" set to that. Works really nice.

Edit: And of course what @BaiterOfZergs mentioned.

QueenOfAvalon

Thank you for all of the input guys, I think I will stick to healing and if I want to tank, I will make my separate one

@Asardes what makes the templar the weakest tank?

Asardes

QueenOfAvalon wrote: »

Thank you for all of the input guys, I think I will stick to healing and if I want to tank, I will make my separate one

@Asardes what makes the templar the weakest tank?

Well it has less buffs it can bring to the group, taking wise, namely just Power of the Light (Minor Fracture & Breach) and that debuff is better applied by a Stamina Templar DD. Also it has only conditional stamina sustain, either has to stay on its rune, or repent bodies. It doesn't have hard CC's, roots, or the innate ability to pull mobs, but has to use Silver Leash which is quite expensive. Also it doesn't have any heals that scale on HP, BoL will have a very low tool tip when used by a tank that mainly has HP. Other classes have some, or all of those skills, plus more unique buffs for the group. Compare Templar with DK, Warden or even NB.

Evil_Rurouni

As Asardes pointed out above, templar is probably the weakest class for a tank.

That doesn't make the healer/tank concept unusable however, it just means you'd be better served with a different class.
Specifically, the warden.
Or maybe the necromancer if you're more fond of the class than I am, but I'd still recommend the warden.

Warden's probably the 2nd strongest healer AND the 2nd strongest tank currently, perfectly suited to do both jobs more than adequately.
Necromancer might well be 3rd strongest at both roles, but YmmV.
Personally, I find necros to be kinda awkward and finnicky, and better suited to DPS roles.

I'm speaking as someone that's got a templar healer, a DK tank, a warden healer, a warden tank, and 2 necromancer DPS to compare like for like here, for what that's worth.

For 4 player content a healer/tank warden with 3 dps might well be a better option than the classic 1 healer, 1 tank, 2 DPS setup.
For 12 player content however, you'd probably be better off picking one role and sticking to it.

Want an oddball but sensible gear Idea for if you do decide to try doing both at the same time?
Spell power cure weapons and jewellery, with Torugs pact armour.
You can get the SPC by buying key shards, and torugs is craftable.
Use an infused backbar staff with a crusher enchant to debuff bosses via torugs, while SPC buffs the DPS.

Veesk

It’s completely possible! Might not be easily viable for end game or all dlc vet content though. I main a Templar healer and have tank sets (usually focused on health and stam since he is pure magicka otherwise) I swap on for fast dungeons and such. Never had a problem tanking like this and usually still end up healing the group more than the dedicated healer.

If you are thinking of focusing mostly on healing on this character it is sometimes more valuable to gear your healer up to do dps and heals. That way as you get a feel for what your group needs in dungeons you can adjust from pure healer to doing more dps if the group doesn't really need a healer... But honestly, if you have the skill points and the inventory space you can carry around sets to fulfill all roles at any given time.

In the end, playing around with sets and roles can be a lot of fun. Test things out, see how well you do and play what you enjoy.

jadarock

Am I the only one that read the title and clicked on it thinking it was Phoenix again 😂😂

Vanos444

QueenOfAvalon wrote: »

Hi guys,

first of all I would like to welcome myself back, I've had this game since beta and sadly been playing other stuff in the last few years but SOOO happy to be back, loving the content and the community, everything and everyone is awesome.

Even though I am not new to the game, I do feel like a complete newb, so here is my question:

I kinda enjoy both healing and tanking (I'm doing heal role only in dungeons), I was wondering if I have separate sets for tanking and healing, can I manage switching between roles and are the same attribs okay to handle both of them?
To clarify, I don't mean I want to tank AND heal in the same dungeon, I mean doing both roles separately.

I cannot compare attribs as at the moment I am just enjoying the content and playing casually, so right now I'm on full magicka.


Any feedback is appreciated, have an awesome day!

@QueenOfAvalon

Healing,
https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-templar-healer-build-pve/

Tanking,
https://alcasthq.com/eso-templar-tank-build-pve/

If you want to be both, then use crafty set instead of transmutation below.
https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-templar-heal-build-pvp/
Note that you would be underperforming as a healer or a tank.

Vanos444

QueenOfAvalon wrote: »

what makes the templar the weakest tank?

They don't have good shields nor a shield buff to support players.

Xvorg

QueenOfAvalon wrote: »

Hi guys,

first of all I would like to welcome myself back, I've had this game since beta and sadly been playing other stuff in the last few years but SOOO happy to be back, loving the content and the community, everything and everyone is awesome.

Even though I am not new to the game, I do feel like a complete newb, so here is my question:

I kinda enjoy both healing and tanking (I'm doing heal role only in dungeons), I was wondering if I have separate sets for tanking and healing, can I manage switching between roles and are the same attribs okay to handle both of them?
To clarify, I don't mean I want to tank AND heal in the same dungeon, I mean doing both roles separately.

I cannot compare attribs as at the moment I am just enjoying the content and playing casually, so right now I'm on full magicka.


Any feedback is appreciated, have an awesome day!

Some years ago you were abe to do that as a NB... saddly that's not possible anymore =/

zvavi

Xvorg wrote: »

QueenOfAvalon wrote: »

Hi guys,

first of all I would like to welcome myself back, I've had this game since beta and sadly been playing other stuff in the last few years but SOOO happy to be back, loving the content and the community, everything and everyone is awesome.

Even though I am not new to the game, I do feel like a complete newb, so here is my question:

I kinda enjoy both healing and tanking (I'm doing heal role only in dungeons), I was wondering if I have separate sets for tanking and healing, can I manage switching between roles and are the same attribs okay to handle both of them?
To clarify, I don't mean I want to tank AND heal in the same dungeon, I mean doing both roles separately.

I cannot compare attribs as at the moment I am just enjoying the content and playing casually, so right now I'm on full magicka.


Any feedback is appreciated, have an awesome day!

Some years ago you were abe to do that as a NB... saddly that's not possible anymore =/

I still do it on my NB... He is an off heal tank...

RavenSworn

To the OP, you can do both without the need to change your stats with the right gear. And yes this is for you to heal or tank with the same attributes.

Your attributes should go all out magicka. Your healer gear are light armor so your enchants are also in the right one.

For tanking, since you have to boost that health abit, theres always ebon or that morrowind gear that boosts your own health but not others. Pair it with a utility set like dragon guard or torug or alkosh, you can tank anything in the game.

With a warden in the team you can also boost your health up. Been doing it on my sorc, NB and warden tank. I can also even put up some SPC on my tank and basically do both tanking and heals in some of the dlc dungeons. (Not HM though, not that leet yet.)

Stibbons

Yes you can. Trollking/beekeeper trinkets max regen/beekeeper resto staff/buffer of the swift light armor.

MerguezMan

I'm more about stamina, but wondering...

- Orgnum's Scales or Beekeeper
- Troll king
- Sanctuary or Bright-throat's boast
- 5 light / 2 heavy setup
- Steed mundus
- most points in magicka, adjust health to hit 30k with food/drink
- front bar s&b, with Puncture and stam morph of Rune focus
- back bar resto staff, with Inner rage morphed to mag

Is it suitable ? Is it reasonable ?

Asardes

As I said, Templar is one of the classes worst suited for tanking - and I've played them all, including Templar - so it still surprises me that so many people want to make Templar tanks. Are they relying on outdated guides from years back or is there is another reason?

In any case it's more advantageous to go start off from Stamina Templar to make a Heal Tank since the most useful skill are stamina morphs:
- Power of the Light (Stamina Morph) - unique Templar debuff - Minor Fracture & Breach (-1320 resistance on target)
- Restoring Focus (Stamina Morph) - allows you to sustain stamina while blocking
- Repentance (Stamina Morph) - gives you stamina back and a burst heal for the rest of the group - heal scales on effective weapon damage (weapon damage + maximum stamina/10.5)
- Ritual of Retribution/Extended Ritual - AoE heal, purge, snare and aggro grabber, while this skill uses magicka the heal and damage scales on your highest stat, so even if you're stamina it will heal for quite a bit
If you want an additional AoE heal for the group Echoing Vigor is the best, since it doesn't force you to run Restoration staff on backbar, which would be useless for tanking

Bar setup would look something like this:
Ransack | Heroic Slash | Power of the Light | Radiant Ward | Bone Surge || Replenishing Barrier
Silver Leash | Repentance | Time Stop | Extended Ritual | Restoring Focus || Aggressive Horn

I already mentioned that a Templar with a relatively low effective spell damage (spell damage+max magicka/10.5) has no burst heal - HoD/BoL is very weak with tank specs - so the best way to survive is to keep your health bar topped up and intact as much as possible. So before a big hit you can stack both Bone Surge and Radiant Ward to absorb as much damage as possible, and give the HotS enough time to top you out before the next; both scale to your maximum HP and affected by your resistances so standing on Restoring Focus makes them more effective. The former also gives a shield and increased heals for the rest of the group.

Example: vet HM Bloodroot Forge - at some point in the fight you'll have to tank 3 atronachs which sometimes hit one right after the other, and they hit for ~10K even for a blocking tank with full resistances, also stones fall from the ceiling and those hit pretty hard too, you can't avoid every one. So you can simply stand your ground, replenish your shields so your Ritual can top of your health before the next hit.

You'll need Time Stop for a hard CC on some mobs that are particularly dangerous but you don't have a class one ex. vet HM Moonhunter Keep. Alternatively you can use Turn Evil but it has a smaller radius and can't be aimed at a distant spot. If you pick Turn Evil you can instead use Pierce Armor on front bar to also have Major Breach applied, though if you're running with magicka DDs it's way better to run Destruction staff (ice or lightning) back bar and slot Elemental Drain there instead of another skill that's not important in that fight.

Silver Leash and Repentance work well together, you keep pulling mobs, the DDs kill them, and you get back stamina. In fights where you don't have many adds you can drop repentance, and in boss fights where there are no adds to pull but you need to range taunt use Inner Rage. Alternatively you can use Swarm Mother monster set in conjunction with Inner Rage to pull adds to you.

Finally the ultimate skills. Aggressive Horn is essential for any support build so you'll have that slotted at all times and be the first choice. The other is flexible. In fights where you need more mitigation use Solar Prison, if you need healing, Rememberance, if you need shield Replenishing Barrier etc.

As for gear, you can use any run of the mill tank gear, but I recommend at leas one healing set. For example a good combo would be Battalion Defender & Ebon Armory. For monster sets there are plenty of options, probably the best for group support is Symphony of Blades - since you're healing your group members constantly, you will also top off their resources if they drop under 50% every 18s.

https://eso-sets.com/set/battalion-defender
https://eso-sets.com/set/ebon-armory
https://eso-sets.com/set/symphony-of-blades

zvavi

Asardes wrote: »

As I said, Templar is one of the classes worst suited for tanking - and I've played them all, including Templar - so it still surprises me that so many people want to make Templar tanks. Are they relying on outdated guides from years back or is there is another reason?

In any case it's more advantageous to go start off from Stamina Templar to make a Heal Tank since the most useful skill are stamina morphs:
- Power of the Light (Stamina Morph) - unique Templar debuff - Minor Fracture & Breach (-1320 resistance on target)
- Restoring Focus (Stamina Morph) - allows you to sustain stamina while blocking
- Repentance (Stamina Morph) - gives you stamina back and a burst heal for the rest of the group - heal scales on effective weapon damage (weapon damage + maximum stamina/10.5)
- Ritual of Retribution/Extended Ritual - AoE heal, purge, snare and aggro grabber, while this skill uses magicka the heal and damage scales on your highest stat, so even if you're stamina it will heal for quite a bit
If you want an additional AoE heal for the group Echoing Vigor is the best, since it doesn't force you to run Restoration staff on backbar, which would be useless for tanking

Bar setup would look something like this:
Ransack | Heroic Slash | Power of the Light | Radiant Ward | Bone Surge || Replenishing Barrier
Silver Leash | Repentance | Time Stop | Extended Ritual | Restoring Focus || Aggressive Horn

I already mentioned that a Templar with a relatively low effective spell damage (spell damage+max magicka/10.5) has no burst heal - HoD/BoL is very weak with tank specs - so the best way to survive is to keep your health bar topped up and intact as much as possible. So before a big hit you can stack both Bone Surge and Radiant Ward to absorb as much damage as possible, and give the HotS enough time to top you out before the next; both scale to your maximum HP and affected by your resistances so standing on Restoring Focus makes them more effective. The former also gives a shield and increased heals for the rest of the group.

Example: vet HM Bloodroot Forge - at some point in the fight you'll have to tank 3 atronachs which sometimes hit one right after the other, and they hit for ~10K even for a blocking tank with full resistances, also stones fall from the ceiling and those hit pretty hard too, you can't avoid every one. So you can simply stand your ground, replenish your shields so your Ritual can top of your health before the next hit.

You'll need Time Stop for a hard CC on some mobs that are particularly dangerous but you don't have a class one ex. vet HM Moonhunter Keep. Alternatively you can use Turn Evil but it has a smaller radius and can't be aimed at a distant spot. If you pick Turn Evil you can instead use Pierce Armor on front bar to also have Major Breach applied, though if you're running with magicka DDs it's way better to run Destruction staff (ice or lightning) back bar and slot Elemental Drain there instead of another skill that's not important in that fight.

Silver Leash and Repentance work well together, you keep pulling mobs, the DDs kill them, and you get back stamina. In fights where you don't have many adds you can drop repentance, and in boss fights where there are no adds to pull but you need to range taunt use Inner Rage. Alternatively you can use Swarm Mother monster set in conjunction with Inner Rage to pull adds to you.

Finally the ultimate skills. Aggressive Horn is essential for any support build so you'll have that slotted at all times and be the first choice. The other is flexible. In fights where you need more mitigation use Solar Prison, if you need healing, Rememberance, if you need shield Replenishing Barrier etc.

As for gear, you can use any run of the mill tank gear, but I recommend at leas one healing set. For example a good combo would be Battalion Defender & Ebon Armory. For monster sets there are plenty of options, probably the best for group support is Symphony of Blades - since you're healing your group members constantly, you will also top off their resources if they drop under 50% every 18s.

https://eso-sets.com/set/battalion-defender
https://eso-sets.com/set/ebon-armory
https://eso-sets.com/set/symphony-of-blades

Blood altar is missing

Asardes

Yea, that's an useful skill too, can slot it in one of the flex spots on the back bar. It's so ubiquitous I even omitted it.

xaraan

Templar can pull off heal tanking in most dungeons, but once you get to vet HM of the newer dungeons and HM trials I think my templar comes up the most short of all my tanks just for tanking. But to stick with just doing pledges, you'll be ok.

If you aren't stuck on a class, I actually have found my Warden to feel the best for heal tanking dungeons. Just seems to offer more passive ways to keep HoTs out there, a variety of other protections for the group, while still offering a ton of solid tanking tools at the same time and their ability costs are not as horrible as templars when it comes to healing.

I've been using a Yolnakriin/Olorime/Lord Warden build (or swap to Symphony of Blades or even Earthgore for emergency single burst heals). You can usually back bar Olorime and control where you place the buff for the DPS and it will allow you to run a Master/Maelstrom/BRP sword/board on front bar for whatever needs you may have. Gives a lot of buffs for the DPS and a lot of regen for yourself to keep up with any healing or other casts.

With my templar I feel like I'm having to work harder just to do the same basic tanking job as I do on any other class tank. Which makes layering in any other tasks harder. Whether it's just something helpful in a trial or doing two jobs in one like heal tanking. As I said, most pledges will feel fine, you can definitely keep your AoE heal down for purify and a small HoT and have breath or similar handy for emergency heal. It just feels like twice as much work doing the same job as other classes and twice as much worry on resources as well. After several years, I'm still hoping they improve tanking for templars, it's my favorite class and tanking is my favorite role, so it's hard having it be the character I look least forward to playing.

ayu_fever

my first toon was a nord templar and i made her into a tank because i like holy knight and paladin aesthetics.
played her for 3 years before i made a warden and DK tank, so i never knew what i was missing out on just from what those classes can do since i didnt have warden and DK toons at the time.

i do think the warden and DK are the strongest and best tanks, no doubt about it, BUT just because something is the best option that doesnt mean it is the only option.
my templar is my main gal. i later changed my templar to a breton healer, but i missed my templar tank so much that i made another toon so i could still play my templar tank!

i like using off-meta classes for roles sometimes.
if its just dungeons anyway, anything can work unless you PUG because PUGs are our daily reminder that some people are just terribad at this game.