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How do they adjust the current meta?

relentless_turnip
relentless_turnip
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I am really enjoying dragonhold and feel we are pretty close to balance.

I think the general consensus is it is a little too tanky at present and I've heard a lot of suggestions on how it can be rectified. I personally don't care as long as they don't do them all 😂 I do however enjoy the discussion so what do we reckon?

How do they adjust the current meta? 51 votes

Reduce healing
21%
GilvothWingShaloknirku5hQbikenValykcRagnarock41TheUndeadAmuletPhoenixGreyjcm2606robpr 11 votes
Increase damage
27%
Davadineovogtb16_ESOSomewhereSpearpointRABIDxWOLVERINEveloSylraptorkarekizDosuulMartiniDanielskatorgaazjuwelzBullseyebudxthadjarvisphoenixkungfu 14 votes
Reduce mitigation(i.e temporal guard, potentates)
11%
EdziuFreakin_HytteRunefanggepe87WildRaptorXStellarvorous 6 votes
Something else?
29%
SirAndySolarikenMisterBigglesworthMarginiswild_kmacdb16_ESOkojoutechnohicvalidifyedneb18_ESODBZVelenaSchokoladeJabbs_GiggityFiktiuscolossalvoidsCundu_ErturRahar 15 votes
Leave it alone!!!!
9%
WoppaBoemIskiabTaemiruImSoProbakthi 5 votes
  • Royaji
    Royaji
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    Don't know what will it be but I can see 170% buffs next patch followed by 80% nerfs in the one after.
  • ManwithBeard9
    ManwithBeard9
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    Nerf sorcs.
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
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    Royaji wrote: »
    Don't know what will it be but I can see 170% buffs next patch followed by 80% nerfs in the one after.

    I'm hoping they've left that cycle behind them 😂
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
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    Nerf sorcs.

    I knew it was only a matter of time 🙄😂

  • karekiz
    karekiz
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    Increase damage
    Increase damage by 50% then reduce healing by 50%

    There no more tanky.
    Edited by karekiz on December 30, 2019 7:53PM
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    Reduce healing
    Reduce healing
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Leave it alone!!!!
    The answer you’ll get depends on what class you play:
    If stam - reduce healing
    If mag - reduce mitigation
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Jabbs_Giggity
    Jabbs_Giggity
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    Something else?
    Not really sure at this point because ZOS has made so many drastic changes to everything! Battle Spirit, Healing, Damage, Defense, Cast-Times on Ults, Skill overhauls, etc...

    All I can say is for me personally, I am getting sick of getting targets to execute range (in PVP) for them to burst heal back to full, or activate a shield that completely mitigates an execute modifier (and then heal back to full).

    So I guess, healing is over-tuned at the moment. I honestly feel like the Jewelry Crafting and Transmutation on Jewelry has really been a large Cause-and-Effect on the game with how backwards Set bonuses are in comparison with Set Weights.

    Metas also are really variant, depending on the game mode you're playing. BG's, Cyro Solo, Cyro small-scale, Cyro zerging, Duels, etc.
  • katorga
    katorga
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    Increase damage
    All I can say is for me personally, I am getting sick of getting targets to execute range (in PVP) for them to burst heal back to full, or activate a shield that completely mitigates an execute modifier (and then heal back to full).

    It is called counter play: heal, shield, dodge, block.The target still has 25% of their health to try and skate by; executes only provide an increasing disadvantage to the target. They are not "I win" buttons.

    Still ZOS doesn't "adjust", this meta will be completely replaced by an new meta.

  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
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    Something else?
    Revert to 1.6
    :smile:
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    Something else?
    reduce the ability for huge mitigaton builds to be able to pump out large amounts of damage and control.
    EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
    NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade
  • Jabbs_Giggity
    Jabbs_Giggity
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    Something else?
    katorga wrote: »
    All I can say is for me personally, I am getting sick of getting targets to execute range (in PVP) for them to burst heal back to full, or activate a shield that completely mitigates an execute modifier (and then heal back to full).

    It is called counter play: heal, shield, dodge, block.The target still has 25% of their health to try and skate by; executes only provide an increasing disadvantage to the target. They are not "I win" buttons.

    Still ZOS doesn't "adjust", this meta will be completely replaced by an new meta.

    Maybe I should clarify...I was never calling this an "I win" button. However, there are legitimate cases where these extreme burst heals impede balanced gameplay. For example, using Radiant Destruction as a Magplar on a 10% health enemy has many draw backs on for the caster. Being a channel and DoT, damage doesn't begin until the first tick after 1s, this gives the opponent enough time to react with a burst heal or shield that blocks the damage from being eminent. Therefore, by time your first damage tick hits the opponents health, you're not gaining the execute modifier because they are at full health, or exploiting the shield bug that negates execute damage modifiers (as pointed out by Cinbri a while back).

    Not every class should be able to do everything, IMO. PVP should not be stale the way that it is. Combinations of Shields + BRP Resto + Healing Ward is a much different mechanic than just BRP Resto + Healing Ward - this goes back to shield stacking. Same goes for BRP DW with Vigor and (if you want to compare) Major Mending that DK's can stack with it.

    These are just some examples, not cries for nerfs. ZOS is just swinging pendulums as they always have and it forces players to leave the game.
  • Rahar
    Rahar
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    Something else?
    Redesign CP.
    NeRf MaGsOrC
  • SidraWillowsky
    SidraWillowsky
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    Big dartboard with everything listed on it (classes, races, skills, etc).

    Put on blindfold then throw darts at the board. Wherever they land gets the nerf hammer.

    If someone misses the dartboard, a random skill/class/etc gets buffed. Everything is listed on scraps of paper in a jar, and the thrower picks one from jar with their blindfold still on.
  • Somewhere
    Somewhere
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    Increase damage
    DOTs were nerfed too much without any comparable decrease in healing. Scalebreaker dots were oppressive but dragonhold dots are nearly ineffective. A modest 10-20% increase in dot damage would allow greater pressure again. Most single target dots deal as much damage as burst options (compare the tooltip of single target dots to skills like scorch, crsystal fragments, spectral bow, fully powered molten whip and so on).

    As we saw in scalebreaker, people were dropping shields for restoration staves because of the dots. With the meta being burst oriented again, all the tanks are back.

    I recognize that templars are less effected by that. Not sure the solution there tbh.
    Edited by Somewhere on December 30, 2019 11:17PM
  • JumpmanLane
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    Buff DOTs, buff bleeds, buff oblivion damage. Those nerfs got us where we are.
  • Solariken
    Solariken
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    Something else?
    1. Make all PvP noCP (way overdue, will be a huge boon to the health of the game)

    2. Reduce 3rd party healing somehow. I like the idea of having critical resistance reduce incoming heal crits.

    3. Nerf Matriarch heal.

  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
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    Big dartboard with everything listed on it (classes, races, skills, etc).

    Put on blindfold then throw darts at the board. Wherever they land gets the nerf hammer.

    If someone misses the dartboard, a random skill/class/etc gets buffed. Everything is listed on scraps of paper in a jar, and the thrower picks one from jar with their blindfold still on.

    This has often been specialties...

    I like to imagine it as a wheel they spin of mis/fortune😂
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
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    Solariken wrote: »
    1. Make all PvP noCP (way overdue, will be a huge boon to the health of the game)

    2. Reduce 3rd party healing somehow. I like the idea of having critical resistance reduce incoming heal crits.

    3. Nerf Matriarch heal.

    That is a tough to pill swallow having impenetrable having a detrimental effect on the user. I'm not sure I could get behind that, but if they reduced the effectiveness of impenetrable making crit builds more viable and making other traits equally appealing I could understand that.

    Overall I agree with the majority that increasing DOT damage or decreasing healing would be most effective. In terms of third party healing I think aoe heals need to be reduced or stop them stacking.

  • DRTE
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    Make group heals stick to a group and not overlap to other players outside of that group would be a good start. might also help with lag in cyro as its not checking everyones health in the area just the groups health.
    DRAGON SPAWN

    Tyrion septim. Stam DK
    Agneyastra. Mag DK
    Evil Buu. Mag Sorc
    Super Evil Buu. Stam Sorc
    Carmala Jabspammer. Magplar
    Get some help. Stamplar
    Plebby Longstockings. Stamblade
    Nightbot. Magblade
    Unslaad Krosis. Magden
    Dirty lich. Magcro
  • Spearpoint
    Spearpoint
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    Increase damage
    Buff NB.
    Arinwyn ~ Cute Wood Elf Archer
    Wardena ~ Frost Wardeness [Died alongside Arctic Blast]
    Dry Spell ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ
    Dark Heart of Skyrim 🍺
    Bomblebee ~ cya'll out there
    Bouncing Betty ~ Front Toward Enemy
    Spearpoint ~ Jab Them With The Pointy End
    Six Feet Above ~ Reapertime!
    Bisolar Disorder - Bright & Moody
    Django Unleashed ~ Mr. Nordic Bather's Towel
    Master Angler ~ Struggles With Ichthyophobia
    Ichthyophobia ~ Secretely Dreams of Becoming a Master Angler
    Lol Brb

    "Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines. Stand with us." — Queen Ayrenn
  • idk
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    To manage the tank meta it is not as simple as the choices OP provides. It is likely not one thing.
  • katorga
    katorga
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    Increase damage
    katorga wrote: »
    All I can say is for me personally, I am getting sick of getting targets to execute range (in PVP) for them to burst heal back to full, or activate a shield that completely mitigates an execute modifier (and then heal back to full).

    It is called counter play: heal, shield, dodge, block.The target still has 25% of their health to try and skate by; executes only provide an increasing disadvantage to the target. They are not "I win" buttons.

    Still ZOS doesn't "adjust", this meta will be completely replaced by an new meta.

    Maybe I should clarify...I was never calling this an "I win" button. However, there are legitimate cases where these extreme burst heals impede balanced gameplay. For example, using Radiant Destruction as a Magplar on a 10% health enemy has many draw backs on for the caster.

    Not every class should be able to do everything, IMO. PVP should not be stale the way that it is. Combinations of Shields + BRP Resto + Healing Ward is a much different mechanic than just BRP Resto + Healing Ward - this goes back to shield stacking. Same goes for BRP DW with Vigor and (if you want to compare) Major Mending that DK's can stack with it.

    That is just radiant....instant executes would become "I win" buttons. So many skills will be over the top when healing gets nerfed. I think all healing will get hit 40-60% next PTS, and every damage skill that people complain about now will just be that much more effective.

    And ZOS is pretty clear they want every class to do everything - tanking line, healing line, and damage line. Not saying that is right, but that is they way they are going every patch.
  • Banana
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    Im sure they will just take a giant dump on cp at some stage.
  • Cundu_Ertur
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    Something else?
    With a sledgehammer.

    One of those nuclear powered ones from the Fallout franchise.

    It's the only form of tweaking the devs seem to understand.
    Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.
  • relentless_turnip
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    I am really hoping at this point the new combat team realise that changes should be more subtle than the previous patches.

    As I said I think they should adjust one element and not by some mental percentage 😂

    Overall I really like this patch, but burst feels like the only way to build at the moment, it would be nice if attrition was an option...
  • SmukkeHeks
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    First they have have the stability thing to fix. Yesterday there was a massive shut down in Cyrodiil, the loading screen then dead is a common and the weapon swap still doesn’t work, neither abilities and if the theory of the possible advantage in all of it are true, is just too much. The only consolation was the thought of the enemy being just as frustrated.

    For me it’s the “I can be tanky as a wall, while holding you down and forcing my weapon down your throat, as I’m by the way healing my buddies” I have an issue with. The stand your ground role shouldn’t also include healing and damage.

    I get the need to balance things, as a solo player I also have to sustain myself, but it gets ridiculous. I’m not seeing it as an issue with buffs/nerfs, but the problem being the play as you like. The identity of roles are messy, them being capable of anything and everything
  • relentless_turnip
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    SmukkeHeks wrote: »
    First they have have the stability thing to fix. Yesterday there was a massive shut down in Cyrodiil, the loading screen then dead is a common and the weapon swap still doesn’t work, neither abilities and if the theory of the possible advantage in all of it are true, is just too much. The only consolation was the thought of the enemy being just as frustrated.

    For me it’s the “I can be tanky as a wall, while holding you down and forcing my weapon down your throat, as I’m by the way healing my buddies” I have an issue with. The stand your ground role shouldn’t also include healing and damage.

    I get the need to balance things, as a solo player I also have to sustain myself, but it gets ridiculous. I’m not seeing it as an issue with buffs/nerfs, but the problem being the play as you like. The identity of roles are messy, them being capable of anything and everything

    I wouldn't mind if they removed cp from all PvP to strive for balance, I do think healing or damage needs tweaking regardless.

    I still find myself in a BG with premades with tanky support roles a plenty as you described.
    I would like if they made a solo queue for BG's so I my MMR rank will still yield meaningful combat without having to face a 4 man on discord.

    In terms of solo play it is a tough thing to balance... Being overwhelmed should only have one outcome. I myself prefer solo play, especially with ball groups ruining any decent group play.

  • phoenixkungfu
    phoenixkungfu
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    Increase damage
    The best way is universal counter gameplay. Yes, it's as simply as that. Ever class should have basics like major defile, major expedition, snare remove, major breach. Then I would buff counter gameplay like penetration. Penetration should be able to reach value of resistance cap. THIS IS A HUGH ISSUE. Then I would look at all class skill and remove stuns from damage abilities. This would balance gameplay in the form of bar set up. And force players to remove that extra tanky ability if they want that stun. Once these changes are made I would then look at all aoe skills and buff them as needed.
    Edited by phoenixkungfu on December 31, 2019 12:22PM
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
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    The best way is universal counter gameplay. Yes, it's as simply as that. Ever class should have basics like major defile, major expedition, snare remove, major breach. Then I would buff counter gameplay like penetration. Penetration should be able to reach value of resistance cap. THIS IS A HUGH ISSUE. Then I would look at all class skill and remove stuns from damage abilities. This would balance gameplay in the form of bar set up. And force players to remove that extra tanky ability if they want that stun. Once these changes are made I would then look at all aoe skills and buff them as needed.

    Another cracker 😂

    This is not the answer... Everyone has already access to most the things you mentioned if you build for them. Of course no-one can have them all...

    The ability to stun is essential to complete a lot of combos and the fact that you are the only person complaining about them in the forum's should be quite telling.

    There is plenty of counter play within the game. It does require you to play and learn them though rather than spending 90% of your time trying to customise the game to your preference via the forums.
    There isn't a single ability you can't counter with practice, the right ability, block, dodge etc...

    The discussion I raised was regarding the current tank meta and how to best adjust it in the next patch... I feel that the current patch is pretty balanced in terms of classes(if you know what you are doing). What we are talking about is a slight adjustment to damage, healing, mitigation etc... Not your problems... You should create another thread for that 👍

    I don't doubt you will 😂
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