Stamblade Meta

zuto40

Returning player swapping from xbox to pc after taking a few years off from the game, whats the current meta for 1vx stamblades? dual wield 2h still viable?

Kel

zuto40 wrote: »

Returning player swapping from xbox to pc after taking a few years off from the game, whats the current meta for 1vx stamblades? dual wield 2h still viable?

Boy are you in for a shock.

I don't even know where to start with all the changes to nightblade and its current state...

A few years? Oh boy...

zuto40

Kel wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

Returning player swapping from xbox to pc after taking a few years off from the game, whats the current meta for 1vx stamblades? dual wield 2h still viable?

Boy are you in for a shock.

I don't even know where to start with all the changes to nightblade and its current state...

A few years? Oh boy...

hit me, i can take the pain of my beloved class

kadar

zuto40 wrote: »

Returning player swapping from xbox to pc after taking a few years off from the game, whats the current meta for 1vx stamblades? dual wield 2h still viable?

First of all #pcmasterrace.

For solo/1vX play, weapon meta is 2h/Bow. 2h because you'll be in medium armor and need the burst heal, bow because Master's bow stronk and expedition-on-roll passive.

evoniee

delete it, make stam warden, profit

Raudgrani

Stamblades are no more, nor are magblades - just like most other things you used to know. Of course you can run anything, just not the way you used to do it, and doing so will make you feel seriously "under powered", not rewarding at all.
What's worth running is literally different each patch. It's like they nerf the previous best thing, and buff something else just to keep us busy, forever changing builds; wasting time and in-game gold to make different builds every 3 months or so.

To just keep a "stable" of 10 or so different playable characters to chose from, is more or less impossible now. You can keep a few "up to date", and the rest as mules to update as needed if you want to play something recently buffed. If you spend all your time playing ESO it's different, of course. But for us mortals, this is probably it.

Dalsinthus

zuto40 wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

Returning player swapping from xbox to pc after taking a few years off from the game, whats the current meta for 1vx stamblades? dual wield 2h still viable?

Boy are you in for a shock.

I don't even know where to start with all the changes to nightblade and its current state...

A few years? Oh boy...

hit me, i can take the pain of my beloved class

Honestly the changes are just too numerous to write out in a post. Stamblades have been heavily reworked - and largely nerfed. Most changes have come since Murkmire patch. Head over to eso-skillbook.com and read over everything. You’re largely going to be disappointed.

Here’s a few highlights:
-No more major fracture on surprise attack.
-No stun or defile on incap. It’s cost has been increased to 70 at base. At 120 it silences opponents which is pretty useless. Oh and this ulti has a cast time now.
-relentless no longer gives minor brutality or minor endurance.

Kel

Keep us posted @zuto40 .

I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinions on nightblade after not playing it for so long.
Let us know how it's going...

MusCanus

Dalsinthus wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

Returning player swapping from xbox to pc after taking a few years off from the game, whats the current meta for 1vx stamblades? dual wield 2h still viable?

Boy are you in for a shock.

I don't even know where to start with all the changes to nightblade and its current state...

A few years? Oh boy...

hit me, i can take the pain of my beloved class

Honestly the changes are just too numerous to write out in a post. Stamblades have been heavily reworked - and largely nerfed. Most changes have come since Murkmire patch. Head over to eso-skillbook.com and read over everything. You’re largely going to be disappointed.

Here’s a few highlights:
-No more major fracture on surprise attack.
-No stun or defile on incap. It’s cost has been increased to 70 at base. At 120 it silences opponents which is pretty useless. Oh and this ulti has a cast time now.
-relentless no longer gives minor brutality or minor endurance.

It would be golden if OP returned a patch before, where relentless also had min travel time. XD

technohic

I started playing my NB for the first time in maybe a year, and even then, it was kind of the change up from my templar. Maybe 2 years ago; it was right up there just shy of being my main.

I will say I'm curious what an old school NB thinks. So far, I'm getting my fingers twisted because they do have a lot of potential but much harder to play than my templar. I get wrecked with more than 1 enemy on me, in large part to muscle memory not being there. I double tap shadow image a lot and it screws me. So far 1v1s have mostly been DKs and I struggle without using some cheap shots when they are weakened. I have to cloak through the Dots. Only 1v1 I won playing straight was actually against another NB.

I will say the difficulty I'm having, for the fun tools I know that can make NB the most annoying class to fight when used well, does give me interest in learning the class better again. Everything else seems tank and spank, or sorc streaking

JinxxND

The problem with stamblade right now is that it has no real pressure. Usually you had one dot like twin slashes which originally went thru resistances or poison inject which would start ticking real hard once you were able to burst someone to 50% with a defile to help stop them from healing back to full. Now you don't have any of these tools on top of losing a lot of the burst damage we had before with major fracture on surprise attack and minor berserk on relentless. Now if you can't get them to low hp to spam a hard hitting execute with the lack of pressure from dots/defile and the state of healing they can immediate heal to full if you don't take them out fast.

EtTuBrutus

Stamblade is fine in competent hands. Still a very strong class. Use the same meta sets as every other stamina class is using.

khajiitNPC

Stamblade is still very strong, the typical set up is 2h/Bow. Yes we got some nerfs, but none of them have been detrimental outside of cast times on certain ults. Even then those who played exceptionally well at NB, still do so, mag or stam.

zuto40

Kel wrote: »

Keep us posted @zuto40 .

I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinions on nightblade after not playing it for so long.
Let us know how it's going...

i left because i was tired of nb getting nerfed every patch, the changes these last 2 years have broken my soul, i will be making a mag dk instead and living the stamblade life in my dreams

technohic

It's not THAT bad but it could use a snare, and the heal on the bow proc seems weird. Would rather have it add pressure somehow. Still fun to play as it has the shadow image and cloak utility. If only lag wasnt do bad. Really can impact the use of active defenses.

LittlePinkDot

JinxxND wrote: »

The problem with stamblade right now is that it has no real pressure. Usually you had one dot like twin slashes which originally went thru resistances or poison inject which would start ticking real hard once you were able to burst someone to 50% with a defile to help stop them from healing back to full. Now you don't have any of these tools on top of losing a lot of the burst damage we had before with major fracture on surprise attack and minor berserk on relentless. Now if you can't get them to low hp to spam a hard hitting execute with the lack of pressure from dots/defile and the state of healing they can immediate heal to full if you don't take them out fast.

Wouldn't every class have trouble killing in a healing meta?
And if you need a DoT...why couldn't stamblades use power extraction or that 2H skill that has bleed damage?
And you can get fracture from mark target or that Sword and Board skill..
You can get minor berserk from camouflaged hunter or slimecraw..
And Surprise attack is still a great spammable. I wish my Stam necro had a spammable like that.
Onsaught can replace incap too.

I don't see stamblade as dead. But I think we do need to change how we build them.

JinxxND

I never said it was dead but a lot of the stuff you mentioned isn't viable at all. Allow me to explain.

Power extraction isn't a dot and it's extremely expensive for low damage, and the dot on the 2h skill carve is actually weaker now then before when it had minor heroism because not only the tooltip was nerfed into the ground with every other dot but the new bleed scaling instead of bypassing resistances making it useless

Getting fracture from sword and board means your forgoing your armor buff in surprise attack so now your playing without major resolve, unless your using dark cloak in which the minor protection from that skill is redundant also it hits for way less because they completely butchered the sword and board line because of the bash necro aside from using it to block for the most part. SnB nb pretty much died with the nerfs to surprise attack. Using mark target which has always been a flex slot skill normally means your dropping a stun/a form of healing with leeching strikes/other damage boost that don't give your position away, utility survival skill such as shade.

Using slime craw means your most likely doing a dot setup which everyone knows the state of dots after the nerfs to get minor berserk on both bars forgoing a sustain/survival/dmg set like bloodspawn/grundwulf/balorgh etc. so it's terrible. Using camo hunter while an option esp for 2h/bow bread and butter build means your losing a stun or execute because you already have surprise attack, rally, relentless (which can be used as a pseudo execute but then you have one shot to get the execute with the healing meta to get the kill) camo, then either the stun or the execute.

Surprise attack is a shadow of what it once was with major fracture allowing all setups not just 2h ones to have burst damage allowing a lot more build diversity in having it also be your armor buff. It is out shined by stone fist now on the stam dk which does more damage and increases damage on the target on top of being ranged and stunning on the third hit, d swing which now give the offbalance debuff increasing damage on the person and allowing a stun with a medium/heavy attack and extra resource return, is it decent sure but good? If it weren't attached to our armor buff there would be way better options then this post nerfs.

Using onslaught over incap more burst damage and better follow up but you lose the point of incap which is getting an almost spammable skill which now does very little pressure after losing the defile and having a useless silence that give cc immunity which doesn't make any sense. Soul Harvest ends up being a better ult the incap because of the defile and follow up but losing a lot of burst dmg because it scales with spell pen.

Can you make the class work? Yes. Any good player can make anything work to an extent but will be really gimped. Is it extremely wonky/clunky and a lot of stuff counter intuitive now on the class? Absolutely.

LittlePinkDot

JinxxND wrote: »

I never said it was dead but a lot of the stuff you mentioned isn't viable at all. Allow me to explain.

Power extraction isn't a dot and it's extremely expensive for low damage, and the dot on the 2h skill carve is actually weaker now then before when it had minor heroism because not only the tooltip was nerfed into the ground with every other dot but the new bleed scaling instead of bypassing resistances making it useless

Getting fracture from sword and board means your forgoing your armor buff in surprise attack so now your playing without major resolve, unless your using dark cloak in which the minor protection from that skill is redundant also it hits for way less because they completely butchered the sword and board line because of the bash necro aside from using it to block for the most part. SnB nb pretty much died with the nerfs to surprise attack. Using mark target which has always been a flex slot skill normally means your dropping a stun/a form of healing with leeching strikes/other damage boost that don't give your position away, utility survival skill such as shade.

Using slime craw means your most likely doing a dot setup which everyone knows the state of dots after the nerfs to get minor berserk on both bars forgoing a sustain/survival/dmg set like bloodspawn/grundwulf/balorgh etc. so it's terrible. Using camo hunter while an option esp for 2h/bow bread and butter build means your losing a stun or execute because you already have surprise attack, rally, relentless (which can be used as a pseudo execute but then you have one shot to get the execute with the healing meta to get the kill) camo, then either the stun or the execute.

Surprise attack is a shadow of what it once was with major fracture allowing all setups not just 2h ones to have burst damage allowing a lot more build diversity in having it also be your armor buff. It is out shined by stone fist now on the stam dk which does more damage and increases damage on the target on top of being ranged and stunning on the third hit, d swing which now give the offbalance debuff increasing damage on the person and allowing a stun with a medium/heavy attack and extra resource return, is it decent sure but good? If it weren't attached to our armor buff there would be way better options then this post nerfs.

Using onslaught over incap more burst damage and better follow up but you lose the point of incap which is getting an almost spammable skill which now does very little pressure after losing the defile and having a useless silence that give cc immunity which doesn't make any sense. Soul Harvest ends up being a better ult the incap because of the defile and follow up but losing a lot of burst dmg because it scales with spell pen.

Can you make the class work? Yes. Any good player can make anything work to an extent but will be really gimped. Is it extremely wonky/clunky and a lot of stuff counter intuitive now on the class? Absolutely.

Well I was thinking about a heavy armour 2h/SnB back bar.

JinxxND

I'm sure you can come up with something for heavy armor SnB nb but it's not nearly as strong as it was before the nb nerfs with old heroic slash for the snare ult gen high damage, surprise attack as the spammable with fracture, reverb for the stun/defile, relentless bow with old incap that would also defile/stun with high ult get from heroic/bloodspawn.

Luede

Stam NB is OK, but i think the class needs some minor buffs to compensate the lack of group and AOE play. Sure, u can pick ur fights and have rly nice options to escape, but its not easy to burst good players down.

Strider__Roshin

Yeah I wouldn't bother coming back to be honest.

Kelces

If you know what to do with a NB you can still do good, don't let those naysayers mislead you. Yes, the gear is slightly different, but the 2h/bow builds were always typical with stamina NB. There are other classes/specs that are worse off now, just no more leading the pole is not the end of the world.

Stam-NB are still awesome assassins. One of my characters can attest that...just a few days ago, it only took about 2 secs while looking on the map - classic.

So again, if you know what to do, no problem at all...

With my tankier characters, I honestly felt some pity for some of the nightblades attacking me though. This I also experienced when I tried a full medium build recently with my NB, maybe it's because there is only impen in the gear, or I just suck at DPS.

Anyway, I would recommend just testing it yourself to really see if it is worth returning for you.

technohic

Im having a lot of fun with my stamNB lately. I still cannot take out tankier heal type player reliably and its terrbile when you have to burst to kill things and lag hits stopping your from being able to get through the combo in less than 10 seconds. I have found a role in my usual group just kind of getting around the back and harrasing and taking out soft targets; though. Playing the role of scout, or even just delaying a bunch of people. I do kill easier on my stamplar.

Paramundo

For me playing Stamblade feels fine in battlegrounds but is frustrating in Cyrodiil CP.

HolyB

Nb is only OP vs bad players. We have no combos that can hit at the same time
Warden Scorch
Templar Backlash
Necro Blastbones
mag sorc curse,execute
Dk Leap cc break is slow enough to allow a whip or execute to hit after

nb+stamsorc has no combo hence a good player only need to use heal+dodgeroll/block to recover if even that.
Only way to have a chance vs good peps is dswing (0.8 sec cast allows almost instant follow up bow/execute)
Or the cheese build zaan +spin2win build cuz of undodgeable combo or a bowtard build

1.Remove cast time on incap
2.Change Bound Aegis+Grim Focus to be able to hit at the same time so we can combo just like ALL other classes
Ofc then nb/Stamsorc may need other nerfs

MusCanus

HolyB wrote: »

Nb is only OP vs bad players. We have no combos that can hit at the same time
Warden Scorch
Templar Backlash
Necro Blastbones
mag sorc curse,execute
Dk Leap cc break is slow enough to allow a whip or execute to hit after

nb+stamsorc has no combo hence a good player only need to use heal+dodgeroll/block to recover if even that.
Only way to have a chance vs good peps is dswing (0.8 sec cast allows almost instant follow up bow/execute)
Or the cheese build zaan +spin2win build cuz of undodgeable combo or a bowtard build

1.Remove cast time on incap
2.Change Bound Aegis+Grim Focus to be able to hit at the same time so we can combo just like ALL other classes
Ofc then nb/Stamsorc may need other nerfs

D-swing also procs off balance, with it you can land HA canceled into incap then bow most of the times. In CP you can proc off balance by roll dodging, but in noCP you just have to use d-swing if you want to have kinda the same combo as before, when incap had a stun. Or you can just use DBoS, but you can't have both SA and incap and hope to burst someone down.

No one really complained about stamblades state when there were no cast times and incap had a stun on 70 ult. In fact NBs were considered top tier back then. Sure, losing minor berserk on relentless AND major fracture on SA AND major defile AND stun on incap was too much of a nerf, but that's just plain damage and pressure loss, it's not like Nbs could layer multiple abilities to hit at the same time before.

I'd say:
1.Remove ult cast times
2.Make SA set the enemy off balance (not stun) when the Shadow Barrier passive is active.
3.Give stamblades at least something back, either major fracture on SA or major defile on incap, or minor berserk on relentless.

HolyB

MusCanus wrote: »

D-swing also procs off balance, with it you can land HA canceled into incap then bow most of the times. In CP you can proc off balance by roll dodging, but in noCP you just have to use d-swing if you want to have kinda the same combo as before, when incap had a stun. Or you can just use DBoS, but you can't have both SA and incap and hope to burst someone down.

No one really complained about stamblades state when there were no cast times and incap had a stun on 70 ult. In fact NBs were considered top tier back then. Sure, losing minor berserk on relentless AND major fracture on SA AND major defile AND stun on incap was too much of a nerf, but that's just plain damage and pressure loss, it's not like Nbs could layer multiple abilities to hit at the same time before.

I'd say:
1.Remove ult cast times
2.Make SA set the enemy off balance (not stun) when the Shadow Barrier passive is active.
3.Give stamblades at least something back, either major fracture on SA or major defile on incap, or minor berserk on relentless.

Yeah i only play NoCP so this is all from solo/1vX PoV so thats pretty much what i ment with D-swing being the only way to combo a 0.4 sec cast time ult/bow with.For me at least the DboS combo dont really work consistently vs good players and when it does its just not good enough on a NB.

Imagine loading a bow with a sexy animations that after X attacks, sends a big boi arrow, that you can time with your whatever,could be nice:) But yeah realistically i like your idea better lol.Remove cast time on ult and major fracture sounds good to start with, and the SA set off balance.

To the OP just Spriggan/truth+new moon+master+BS can 1vX potatos all day with cloak+shadow image just like before. weapon dont really matter get a staff even. Be ready for rage whisper/teabagged to infinity cuz NB still op as fudge and your a dirty human being for playing it
Super seriously tho good luck attacking top tier players.They are usually way more tanky/healy then you + have more combo potential to burst you down as i wrote. BUT BOY OH BOY CAN YOU RUN FORREST

Iskiab

Kelces wrote: »

If you know what to do with a NB you can still do good, don't let those naysayers mislead you. Yes, the gear is slightly different, but the 2h/bow builds were always typical with stamina NB. There are other classes/specs that are worse off now, just no more leading the pole is not the end of the world.

Stam-NB are still awesome assassins. One of my characters can attest that...just a few days ago, it only took about 2 secs while looking on the map - classic.

So again, if you know what to do, no problem at all...

With my tankier characters, I honestly felt some pity for some of the nightblades attacking me though. This I also experienced when I tried a full medium build recently with my NB, maybe it's because there is only impen in the gear, or I just suck at DPS.

Anyway, I would recommend just testing it yourself to really see if it is worth returning for you.

What other class/spec is worse off then NB right now? Not Necro, DK, Warden, Templar, or Sorc. Do you mean werewolves?

JinxxND

NB are pretty weak overall rn, only thing keeping them any sort of relevant is invis and being able to open up on unsuspecting people. You take that away look at the rest of the kit. Play a dark cloak nb and you'll see the problems of the class become real apparent.

Healing is extremely poor, damage has been nerfed and has no real form of pressure outside direct single target damage spam, both ults with soul shred and it's morphs and death stroke and it's morph got hit the hardest with cast times (try landing and onslaught or db which you can speed up the cast time with a light attack, over soul harvest/incap) Incap is garbage because it gives free cc immunity if you hold it too long and the base 70 one doesn't defile anymore.

Your supposed to supplement your build with weapon and guild skill abilities but a lot of those got nerfed as well, you want a dot to help with your single target pressure well good luck cause all dots outside dk ones got nerfed into the ground, need healing stamnb has rally since forward momentum got it's hot nerfed, magnb has healing ward if used with a brp resto.

JinxxND

These are some changes I propose that are in line with the skill audit and class having one type of buff/debuff in the kit while just moving around some things with slight buffs here and there that would put the class at a good level overall.

Shadow Barrier passive increase the base time of major resolve by 2 seconds so it ends up at a base time of 8 seconds of major resolve before heavy armor instead of 6.

Surprise attack apply minor vulnerability for 8 seconds instead of ambush

Ambush lose 10 second minor vulnerability and either become a stun, or applies minor defile to a single target, since lotus fan applies an aoe dot and aoe minor vulnerability

Grim Focus and it's morphs lose the healing attached to both versions and move the heal to Sap Essence and Power Extraction increasing Sap Essence heal and adding a small heal to Power Extraction. Give major brutality/sorcery to each respective morph, They could lose the damage mitigation but then either add minor endurance/intellect or minor berserk/force going back to a damage focused skill.

Summon shade lose minor maim and move it to Aspect of Terror and it's morphs promoting skillful use of the skill and when you want minor main in melee instead of an auto minor maim bot with the shade. Outside of duels the maim is useless caue your placing it to teleport back to where no one is at. Also giving stamina nb a reason to use it again over turn evil.

Incap/Soul harvest remove cast time, lose 120 silence free cc immunity and replace it back with major defile. Keep the ult at 70 at all times. That way both soul harvest and incap are good for each respective class in stam and mag and have small unique bonuses with reave and the ult get on ea morph respectively. Possible could swap the reave passive and the ult gen as well since reave benefits a magblade more with ranged light attacks and the ult gen on a stamblade is useful.

Dark cloak increase the heal scaling off your max hp by 2-4% and allow it to proc conceal weapons speed bonus while dark cloak is active and set offbalance/stun with concealed weapon/surprise attack while dark cloak is active.

Sap Essence loses major sorcery but increases the heal by 10-20% and Power Extraction gains a heal similar to Sap Essences current heal but loses major brutality.

Path of Darkness remove major expedition and move it to either Blur and it's morphs or Cripple and it's morphs, increase the damage/healing of each respective morph by 10-20% base morph would go back to do doing damage lower then twisting path. This would help magblades both dark cloak and shadowy disguise magblades get their speed without revealing there position.

MusCanus

JinxxND wrote: »

These are some changes I propose that are in line with the skill audit and class having one type of buff/debuff in the kit while just moving around some things with slight buffs here and there that would put the class at a good level overall.

Shadow Barrier passive increase the base time of major resolve by 2 seconds so it ends up at a base time of 8 seconds of major resolve before heavy armor instead of 6.

Surprise attack apply minor vulnerability for 8 seconds instead of ambush

Ambush lose 10 second minor vulnerability and either become a stun, or applies minor defile to a single target, since lotus fan applies an aoe dot and aoe minor vulnerability

Grim Focus and it's morphs lose the healing attached to both versions and move the heal to Sap Essence and Power Extraction increasing Sap Essence heal and adding a small heal to Power Extraction. Give major brutality/sorcery to each respective morph, They could lose the damage mitigation but then either add minor endurance/intellect or minor berserk/force going back to a damage focused skill.

Summon shade lose minor maim and move it to Aspect of Terror and it's morphs promoting skillful use of the skill and when you want minor main in melee instead of an auto minor maim bot with the shade. Outside of duels the maim is useless caue your placing it to teleport back to where no one is at. Also giving stamina nb a reason to use it again over turn evil.

Incap/Soul harvest remove cast time, lose 120 silence free cc immunity and replace it back with major defile. Keep the ult at 70 at all times. That way both soul harvest and incap are good for each respective class in stam and mag and have small unique bonuses with reave and the ult get on ea morph respectively. Possible could swap the reave passive and the ult gen as well since reave benefits a magblade more with ranged light attacks and the ult gen on a stamblade is useful.

Dark cloak increase the heal scaling off your max hp by 2-4% and allow it to proc conceal weapons speed bonus while dark cloak is active and set offbalance/stun with concealed weapon/surprise attack while dark cloak is active.

Sap Essence loses major sorcery but increases the heal by 10-20% and Power Extraction gains a heal similar to Sap Essences current heal but loses major brutality.

Path of Darkness remove major expedition and move it to either Blur and it's morphs or Cripple and it's morphs, increase the damage/healing of each respective morph by 10-20% base morph would go back to do doing damage lower then twisting path. This would help magblades both dark cloak and shadowy disguise magblades get their speed without revealing there position.

These are all good points. It's a shame really that even removing some effects from NB abilities without any compensation would be a slight buff. Removing silence from incap or removing stun from SA and leaving only off balance would be better than it is now.