Templar Javelin

Jabbs_Giggity

I have been having a difficult time sitting with the range reduction to Javelin, here is why:

As a Stamina Templar (please disregard any discussion for Magicka Templars), Javelin is the only ranged Class-Skill that is Stamina-based. One could argue equipping bow back-bar - this is valid, but dissolves any option to "Play as you want". Same can be said for using skills such as Silver Bolts or Hidden Blade. Another argument can be made to slot a gap-closer - also valid. However, I do not (maybe some do) have issues closing the gap between myself and a player without one equipped in open world combat.

With that being said, I find it more of a nuisance to be unable to target opposing players on walls of a keep during an offensive siege or targeting the NPC at the second floor of a resource tower from the resource flag. I am forced to, due to the range reduction, move in closer to the keep/tower and jump then cast the skill in mid-air to reach the acceptable distance.

I do not find the "Ignores Resistance" much of an added "perk" to the skill. What I propose is to drop the "Ignores Resistance" for the Stamina morph Binding Javelin and adding restoring the range back to 28m.

With the tank meta back on track and Magicka players having easier access to mobility/resistance/shields/ranged attacks, it is becoming increasingly more difficult for all Stamina characters to effectively combat Magicka characters who can simple sit from range and CC from range.

Thoughts?

Royaji

Hold on there, cowboy.

If we are going there either we return range to all the ranged stuns (Destructive Clench, Magnum Shot, Fossilize) or none of them. You do not get to be the only class with 28m ranged stun in the game.

edit: typo

MartiniDaniels

Yeah, I miss 28m+ stun on obsidian shard too. I had such a great times with it on my hybrid (now R.I.P). But be happy that javelin was not turned in a total junk like other ranged stuns

Jabbs_Giggity

Royaji wrote: »

Hold on there, cowboy.

If we are going there either we return range to all the ranged stuns (Destructive Clench, Magnum Shot, Fossilize) or none of them. You do not get to be the only class with 28m ranged stun in the game.

edit: typo

The point wasn't to be "The only class in game with 28m ranged stun". The point was to have a reliable ranged option in a Stamina format on a class with zero ranged Stamina skills. I don't think that Magicka-based ranged skills (With or without a Stun) should have their range increased from current state. This makes the difference that Magicka-based classes generally fight from range and have easier access to mobility and damage mitigation through range. Lower range on Magicka stuns allow casters to increase the distance from anyone closing the gap. You have misread the entire purpose of the OP...

Nightblade - Relentless Focus - Can anyone confirm range on Bow proc? Aux - Buttload of damage plus heal
Dragonknight - Stone Giant - 28m range Aux - Stun + Increased damage per cast
Warden - Cutting Dive - 28m range Aux - Off Balance
Necromancer - Venom Skull - 28m range Aux - 20% increased damage (third cast)
Sorcerer - Bound Armaments - Can anyone confirm range on weapon proc? Aux - Increase LA/HA 10%
Templar - Binding Javelin - 22m range Aux - Ignores Resistance | Has lowest base damage of all Stamina-ranged Class skills

**Edit for typos

Royaji

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Hold on there, cowboy.

If we are going there either we return range to all the ranged stuns (Destructive Clench, Magnum Shot, Fossilize) or none of them. You do not get to be the only class with 28m ranged stun in the game.

edit: typo

The point wasn't to be "The only class in game with 28m ranged stun". The point was to have a reliable ranged option in a Stamina format on a class with zero ranged Stamina skills. I don't think that Magicka-based ranged skills (With or without a Stun) should have their range increased from current state. This makes the difference that Magicka-based classes generally fight from range and have easier access to mobility and damage mitigation through range. Lower range on Magicka stuns allow casters to increase the distance from anyone closing the gap. You have misread the entire purpose of the OP...

Nightblade - Relentless Focus - Can anyone confirm range on Bow proc? Aux - Buttload of damage plus heal
Dragonknight - Stone Giant - 28m range Aux - Stun + Increased damage per cast
Warden - Cutting Dive - 28m range Aux - Off Balance
Necromancer - Venom Skull - 28m range Aux - 20% increased damage (third cast)
Sorcerer - Bound Armaments - Can anyone confirm range on weapon proc? Aux - Increase LA/HA 10%
Templar - Binding Javelin - 22m range Aux - Ignores Resistance | Has lowest base damage of all Stamina-ranged Class skills

**Edit for typos

Alright, let's dig into it. First of all, Javelin's range was decreased when ZOS was adjusting range on stuns. Which is the reason why it was reduced. Currently there are no instant ranged stuns with range above 22m. Magicka or stamina. In the current vision all skills follow the same ruleset and I don't see why Javelin should be an exception.

Now to your little list:

• Relentless Focus - the heal is only applicable if you are within 7 meters so for us its a moot point. But even better is the fact that you have to land 5 LA before you can shoot the bow. Which means that you are either staying in melee range or using a bow (which you find unacceptable for Templar). No stun.
• Stone Giant - Stone Fist and it's morphs have 15m range. It also only stuns on the third cast.
• Cutting Dive - Again, you are either using a bow to follow up off-balance with a heavy attack or staying within melee range. And the skill is not capable of exerting any pressure without the rest of Warden's toolkit which is resticted to much closer range.
• Venom Skull - Same thing as Dive. Does not stun at all.
• Bound Armaments - this skill is a copy of Relentless Focus so the same logic applies.

Now then, what does it all mean? You can have 28m Javelin (a single ranged skill in a melee toolkit is SUCH a great thing, ask Wardens) if it loses its stun. Otherwise it should stay at 22m. Or as I said, we can buff the range on all stuns back to 28m.

edit: more typos, I need a new keyboard

Jabbs_Giggity

Royaji wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Hold on there, cowboy.

If we are going there either we return range to all the ranged stuns (Destructive Clench, Magnum Shot, Fossilize) or none of them. You do not get to be the only class with 28m ranged stun in the game.

edit: typo

The point wasn't to be "The only class in game with 28m ranged stun". The point was to have a reliable ranged option in a Stamina format on a class with zero ranged Stamina skills. I don't think that Magicka-based ranged skills (With or without a Stun) should have their range increased from current state. This makes the difference that Magicka-based classes generally fight from range and have easier access to mobility and damage mitigation through range. Lower range on Magicka stuns allow casters to increase the distance from anyone closing the gap. You have misread the entire purpose of the OP...

Nightblade - Relentless Focus - Can anyone confirm range on Bow proc? Aux - Buttload of damage plus heal
Dragonknight - Stone Giant - 28m range Aux - Stun + Increased damage per cast
Warden - Cutting Dive - 28m range Aux - Off Balance
Necromancer - Venom Skull - 28m range Aux - 20% increased damage (third cast)
Sorcerer - Bound Armaments - Can anyone confirm range on weapon proc? Aux - Increase LA/HA 10%
Templar - Binding Javelin - 22m range Aux - Ignores Resistance | Has lowest base damage of all Stamina-ranged Class skills

**Edit for typos

Alright, let's dig into it. First of all, Javelin's range was decreased when ZOS was adjusting range on stuns. Which is the reason why it was reduced. Currently there are no instant ranged stuns with range above 22m. Magicka or stamina. In the current vision all skills follow the same ruleset and I don't see why Javelin should be an exception.

Now to your little list:

• Relentless Focus - the heal is only applicable if you are within 7 meters so for us its a moot point. But even better is the fact that you have to land 5 LA before you can shoot the bow. Which means that you are either staying in melee range or using a bow (which you find unacceptable for Templar). No stun.
• Stone Giant - Stone Fist and it's morphs have 15m range. It also only stuns on the third cast.
• Cutting Dive - Again, you are either using a bow to follow up off-balance with a heavy attack or staying within melee range. And the skill is not capable of exerting any pressure without the rest of Warden's toolkit which is resticted to much closer range.
• Venom Skull - Same thing as Dive. Does not stun at all.
• Bound Armaments - this skill is a copy of Relentless Focus so the same logic applies.

Now then, what does it all mean? You can have 28m Javelin (a single ranged skill in a melee toolkit is SUCH a great thing, ask Wardens) if it loses its stun. Otherwise it should stay at 22m. Or as I said, we can buff the range on all stuns back to 28m.

edit: more typos, I need a new keyboard

Fair enough. Only point I would add to the Templar flavor is, if range were increased at the cost of losing its stun...what CC would then be applicable for Templars? The only option left (correct me if I am wrong) would be Turn Evil or Reverb? And where would those fit on your skill bar, if opting for a ranged Stamina Skill that is not a Bow? I have used bow on Templar and it's great, just not for current PVP in open world. Again, IMO - may be different for other players.

UppGRAYxDD

Take the stun away from both javelin morphs and put it back on blazing spear...