5-minute Deserter Penalty is Bad

ketsparrowhawk

People bail out of a match for hardly anything at all now. Die twice? Bounce. See a player you don't like? Bounce. Only winning by 30 points instead of 100 so it doesn't look good on your YouTube vid? Bounce.

I've had many matches that were actually good, competitive matches.. but were ruined because some people thought they died too many times and quit.

This was a bad change. Put it back to 15 minutes please.

VaranisArano

So is getting a 15-20 minute deserter penalty for leaving a match that never starts or has wildly unbalanced team numbers.

Its kind of a Catch 22. ZOS chose to give a lesser penalty to people who leave because they got screwed by the broken Groupfinder, but naturally, people (being people) are going to take advantage of that.

kadar

The funny part is the azzhoIes who bounce, screwing over their team are same ones who whine the loudest about BGs being miserable. They don't even realize they are part of the problem.

idk

kadar wrote: »

The funny part is the azzhoIes who bounce, screwing over their team are same ones who whine the loudest about BGs being miserable. They don't even realize they are part of the problem.

This is likely the case.

In a different game with instanced objective based PvP when those who complained in chat quit we often turned the match around with the replacements. Even happened in their death matches. ESO's system does not replace players well enough for this to have a chance to happen. But those complainers are likely the biggest issue and prefer to blame others.

ChunkyCat

/bounce

LinearParadox

The lowered penalty is a stop-gap measure for the broken queues they still can't fix.
Wait for BGs to be fixed (if ever) and then revisit the leaver penalty.

I stopped bothering to try to BGs for roughly a month now because of the brokenness, and the subsequent asinine and undeserved "punishment" for leaving broken matches. With it only being 5 minutes now, I might consider actually coming back. Let it be for now.

precambria

It ensures almost ALL matches get destroyed now unless it is mad sweaty MMR ones, most matches are already ruined by the team filling bug the rest are ruined by people with NO BALLS who bail because they died, you need to reinstate the debuff ASAP it was a thing you tried but it did not work so please just undo it.

Qbiken

The 5 min penalty is good and should stay until zos can properly fix the mmr system, or preferably, remove it.

Ivan04

Gotta agree with this, too tired to see people leave at the beginning of the match. I've had at least ten 4v1v1 mathes in the last couple weeks.

kadar

Qbiken wrote: »

The 5 min penalty is good and should stay until zos can properly fix the mmr system, or preferably, remove it.

I get that BGs are broken, but the no-penalty for leaving is worse.

I haven't been dropped from a BG in a few weeks (playing about 5 per day on average). However in almost every single match at least 1 player and many times, whole teams, leave. I'd much rather suffer a rare long deserter penalty due to a bug, than play nearly all BGs at an overwhelming disadvantage (or with an overwhelming advantage). It's not fun for or fair for all 12 people involved.

The short penalty change was like fixing a sprained ankle by breaking the opposite femur. "There, can't feel the pain in your ankle anymore, can ya?"

precambria

Dear Zos, REVERT THIS CHANGE NOW

Iskiab

They should increase the penalty to half an hour. A lot of those broken BGs don’t start because people leave early before people can accept the queue and zone in.

Zer0oo

NO, give players an incentive to actual play the bgs and not to just rage quit. (punishment was never the right solution)

CynicK

Yes people leaves a lot, now the other day we were three and we have a bad start one left another day we were last and ended up alone, before people stayed all the match, I know is for the queues and the matchmaker not working properly but when they fix it they should rise the penalty a little bit.

BNOC

The deserter penalty should be a month long when the mm issue is sorted, forget the rage quitters and scaredy cats, make it account wide too.

Also, on another note - if someone Q's, it should push them in automatically when the Q pops, don't even give them the choice or accepting or declining, especially not now you're instantly thrown in.

Iskiab

BNOC wrote: »

The deserter penalty should be a month long when the mm issue is sorted, forget the rage quitters and scaredy cats, make it account wide too.

Also, on another note - if someone Q's, it should push them in automatically when the Q pops, don't even give them the choice or accepting or declining, especially not now you're instantly thrown in.

Month long might be a little excessive, but a little time out with the deserter Debuff to think in the corner about what they did wrong sounds good.

Half of what breaks the finder is people abusing it being able to port out of cyrodiil and IC with it. Put a hard stop to that garbage.

BNOC

Iskiab wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

The deserter penalty should be a month long when the mm issue is sorted, forget the rage quitters and scaredy cats, make it account wide too.

Also, on another note - if someone Q's, it should push them in automatically when the Q pops, don't even give them the choice or accepting or declining, especially not now you're instantly thrown in.

Month long might be a little excessive, but a little time out with the deserter Debuff to think in the corner about what they did wrong sounds good.

Half of what breaks the finder is people abusing it being able to port out of cyrodiil and IC with it. Put a hard stop to that garbage.

Haha yeah I was joking with a month long but it does annoy me, I even see good players bounce because they don't wanna be in someone elses clips or have a soggy kda on the scoreboard in case someone clips it etc.

I'm with ya though, defo a bigger time out and defo account wide so they can't just change to something else and re-q.

I actually used to like that I could teleport out of IC (with a regular teleport), dno why they reverted it and made it so counter productive but I agree, shouldn't be able to Q for a BG and leave it from Cyrodil - Maybe lock people out of the entirety of PVP with the deserter penalty, no duels, no Cyro Q, no BG Q.

ecru

precambria wrote: »

It ensures almost ALL matches get destroyed now unless it is mad sweaty MMR ones, most matches are already ruined by the team filling bug the rest are ruined by people with NO BALLS who bail because they died, you need to reinstate the debuff ASAP it was a thing you tried but it did not work so please just undo it.

i'm in the mad sweaty mmr matches so i haven't experienced a lot of leavers, do people really bail in lower mmr the first time they die? basically everyone in my matches stays til the end unless it's like a 4v4 deathmatch with no third team and one of the teams is a premade.

maybe it's the fact that when you're in the mad sweaty mmr bracket (lol) you know that if you leave you're gonna just queue up against the same people eventually anyway so there's really no point, the match ends, you queue again, same handful of players cycle through different teams, and you get kinda the same match.

(bgs queues are bad)

precambria

ecru wrote: »

precambria wrote: »

It ensures almost ALL matches get destroyed now unless it is mad sweaty MMR ones, most matches are already ruined by the team filling bug the rest are ruined by people with NO BALLS who bail because they died, you need to reinstate the debuff ASAP it was a thing you tried but it did not work so please just undo it.

i'm in the mad sweaty mmr matches so i haven't experienced a lot of leavers, do people really bail in lower mmr the first time they die? basically everyone in my matches stays til the end unless it's like a 4v4 deathmatch with no third team and one of the teams is a premade.

maybe it's the fact that when you're in the mad sweaty mmr bracket (lol) you know that if you leave you're gonna just queue up against the same people eventually anyway so there's really no point, the match ends, you queue again, same handful of players cycle through different teams, and you get kinda the same match.

(bgs queues are bad)

YES basically people don't leave the sweat games because it's the same folks over and over they will remember you as being a (snip) for leaving, also nothing will change the lesson you were supposed to learn is lost if you leave the classroom.
I went on my low MMR healy sorc and it is terrible down there for leavers, people leave even when winning because they took a death, most of the games end with 2-3 people on team.
This 5 min buff is SHEER IDIOCY whatever it is they thought they were fixing by doing this it made it WORSE, own up to that and just revert it godsakes...

(edited for profanity)

ChunkyCat

yeah man, you totally would have won that match if only that one guy hadn’t left

precambria

Not only about win. I lvl 2 JC already. Putting up a good fight vs a stronger comp so you can say GG and mean it, or actually have a chance to see why you lost and learn from it rather than have it just be a wasted time because one person thought they were to special or they are of the opinion that "I'm already the best in world, nothing to learn for me, I lose cause team I lose cause class I..." mostly it feels bad to be 3 men, even for the full teams it tarnish their victory and maybe the people who leave don't realize it but it tarnish their ***.

ChunkyCat

precambria wrote: »

Putting up a good fight vs a stronger comp so you can say GG and mean it, or actually have a chance to see why you lost and learn from it rather than have it just be a wasted time

what if I told you, you can still say your “gg” even without that one guy. And if you’re hell bent on “learning” from a loss, you can still do that without that one guy, too.

sounds more like you’re the one road raging while looking for any excuse to cry foul.

NordSwordnBoard

Maybe the deserter penalty should scale with number of players? If there's a miracle and you get 4v4v4 and desert that you get hit with the max penalty. If you desert a 2v3v50 you're screwed lol come back next week. Otherwise, if you join, then desert an in-progress 3v1v2 you get a lesser penalty like 5 minutes. A snapshot of the player total when quitting determines the penalty length for the quitter.

Iskiab

ecru wrote: »

precambria wrote: »

It ensures almost ALL matches get destroyed now unless it is mad sweaty MMR ones, most matches are already ruined by the team filling bug the rest are ruined by people with NO BALLS who bail because they died, you need to reinstate the debuff ASAP it was a thing you tried but it did not work so please just undo it.

i'm in the mad sweaty mmr matches so i haven't experienced a lot of leavers, do people really bail in lower mmr the first time they die? basically everyone in my matches stays til the end unless it's like a 4v4 deathmatch with no third team and one of the teams is a premade.

maybe it's the fact that when you're in the mad sweaty mmr bracket (lol) you know that if you leave you're gonna just queue up against the same people eventually anyway so there's really no point, the match ends, you queue again, same handful of players cycle through different teams, and you get kinda the same match.

(bgs queues are bad)

It takes a while to get up there. You have it pretty good tbh, I found those games fun and less likely to be a blowout.

ecru

Iskiab wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

precambria wrote: »

It ensures almost ALL matches get destroyed now unless it is mad sweaty MMR ones, most matches are already ruined by the team filling bug the rest are ruined by people with NO BALLS who bail because they died, you need to reinstate the debuff ASAP it was a thing you tried but it did not work so please just undo it.

i'm in the mad sweaty mmr matches so i haven't experienced a lot of leavers, do people really bail in lower mmr the first time they die? basically everyone in my matches stays til the end unless it's like a 4v4 deathmatch with no third team and one of the teams is a premade.

maybe it's the fact that when you're in the mad sweaty mmr bracket (lol) you know that if you leave you're gonna just queue up against the same people eventually anyway so there's really no point, the match ends, you queue again, same handful of players cycle through different teams, and you get kinda the same match.

(bgs queues are bad)

It takes a while to get up there. You have it pretty good tbh, I found those games fun and less likely to be a blowout.

yeah this is true, but on the other hand they're all extremely high stress matches and i'm worn out after like 2-3 BGs.

precambria

ChunkyCat wrote: »

precambria wrote: »

Putting up a good fight vs a stronger comp so you can say GG and mean it, or actually have a chance to see why you lost and learn from it rather than have it just be a wasted time

what if I told you, you can still say your “gg” even without that one guy. And if you’re hell bent on “learning” from a loss, you can still do that without that one guy, too.

sounds more like you’re the one road raging while looking for any excuse to cry foul.

It ruins it man, when you have a guy bail in the first minute you can't honestly call it a gg at the end because the whole scoring is thrown off and no you can't really learn to play a 4v4v4 PVP game with 3 guys, maybe some things with your individual build but again the balance is thrown off. Not that anything about this game is particularly balanced but the BG is designed for full teams so if you want to see your contribution, or have a well fought battle that is not imba by the fact the objectives {namely player} for deathmatch are not at the very least equally distributed, imagine one team had 2 relics and the other team had none it's the same thing. TBH sometimes being on 3 men team is easier because that one guy might have needed carry and it's also easier to killsteal when the full team can't commit to fight 3 men with other full team waiting, it's not about wins it's about satisfying PVP experience and learn to work with what you got, not what is missing.

Joinovikova

Deserter should be removed completly until Q systém will be fixed

Anomander72

I have been on both sides of the balancing issue and neither is fun. When I am on a two person team facing two 4 player teams and one is a premade in death match, there is not much to "learn" in this classroom. The other 4 person team decides to go for second place, so they come after the team of two and as you fight it out the premade comes and picks up the scraps.

The problem is extremes are almost never the solution. A half hour penalty is is too long and five minutes is too short. 15 minutes should be the deserter penalty, period.

I am not a developer, but it seems like having some kind of numerical auto balance should not be difficult to add to the game. A BG should never start with a one man team, versus three and four man teams, yet it does. COD had auto balance 15 years ago. Fixing the team balance and broken queue will not fix the main problem in BGs though, because somebody will always find something else to complain about (the matches are all Chaosball or this is my fifth time in a row in El Angvar).

XxMissAlycexX

People will be jerks no matter what.

It is nice not to get a 20m timer when the game crashes you out and it wasnt your fault.