Should burst healing be nerf?

Abyssmol

Gilvoth wrote: »

it is plague in pvp right now, so "yes" it does need removed from ability.
people health at .01% and they instantly heal to full 100% in one clik is just foolishness.
the Burst heal like that needs removed.
Absolutely.

As long as they also nerf vigor, rally, and every HOT, I'm okay with it!

Gravord

No

xylena wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Nerf healing and glassier builds will have to play tankier and not be able to rely on healing to counter damage.

No, they would continue to rely on roll dodge, damage shields, mobility, and LoS, as they already do. A nerf to group healing is only a nerf to zerging. Skilled coordinated groups would adapt, and weak groups trying to force flip flags by outnumbering the enemy and heal blobbing would rightfully wipe to outnumbered pugs.

Gravord wrote: »

Its really l2p issue after all. They just overbuild own tankiness, go solo vs groups of players supporting each other and wonder why they cant make a kill.

I used to love charging into disorganized groups in keep battles and chopping down a 32k HP healbot with a rotation of Bleeds, Incap with stun and Defile, Surprise Attack weave. You can't play like that anymore because all of those things have been nerfed, and for what? So zergers don't have to watch their own health bars? Solo players should absolutely be able to successfully fight against disorganized groups, and have a full complement of tools to do so, not just crossing their fingers and hoping that the janky cast time on Onslaught doesn't screw up their wombo combo.

You have more than enough tools, just not insta easy mode kills as overpowered dots gave you before. Adapt, improve

Xvorg

No

This game has a loooong history of nerfing something that later is abused by groups

Nerf AoE Dmg--> Now Zergs make bigger groups
Nerf blocking --> Now tanks rely on mitigation sets
Nerf Dark Cloak --> Now NBs instead of using cloak for cleanse a dot, spam it timely so the DoT does not do dmg
Nerf HA (wrath passive) -> Now with more mitigation and healing, HA users can go with Fury+7th legion

Nerf burst healing --> now zergs will permanently run HoTs

Nerfing things is never the solution, it only creates a worse version of the problem.

xylena

Yes

Gravord wrote: »

You have more than enough tools, just not insta easy mode kills as overpowered dots gave you before. Adapt, improve

And those tools are?

I did adapt. Stack damage but run a defensive back bar. Stall the fight until your Ultimate is ready. Wait for enemy to let their guard down, then attempt one shot combo using some combination of delayed burst, stun, ulti drop, and execute. Same drill on every class, mag or stam, large or small scale. This is not the dynamic combat I used to enjoy. There's no pressure or momentum. It's flat and stagnant, rewarding literally wasting time over attacking the enemy.

It's bad gameplay. It's like they took Rock-Paper-Scissors, then nerfed paper, so now the game is just Rock-Scissors. You either play Rock or die, so now everyone is playing Rock, and nobody is dying.

Gravord

No

xylena wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

You have more than enough tools, just not insta easy mode kills as overpowered dots gave you before. Adapt, improve

And those tools are?

I did adapt. Stack damage but run a defensive back bar. Stall the fight until your Ultimate is ready. Wait for enemy to let their guard down, then attempt one shot combo using some combination of delayed burst, stun, ulti drop, and execute. Same drill on every class, mag or stam, large or small scale. This is not the dynamic combat I used to enjoy. There's no pressure or momentum. It's flat and stagnant, rewarding literally wasting time over attacking the enemy.

It's bad gameplay. It's like they took Rock-Paper-Scissors, then nerfed paper, so now the game is just Rock-Scissors. You either play Rock or die, so now everyone is playing Rock, and nobody is dying.

Only low quality dds require ultimate to make a kill, meeting plenty of those in bgs recently though. Crap defensive build and without stacking 2 dawnbreakers with necro colos they cant kill anything. Yet again, l2p issue and own choices.

ThePhantomThorn

Yes

Gravord wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

You have more than enough tools, just not insta easy mode kills as overpowered dots gave you before. Adapt, improve

And those tools are?

I did adapt. Stack damage but run a defensive back bar. Stall the fight until your Ultimate is ready. Wait for enemy to let their guard down, then attempt one shot combo using some combination of delayed burst, stun, ulti drop, and execute. Same drill on every class, mag or stam, large or small scale. This is not the dynamic combat I used to enjoy. There's no pressure or momentum. It's flat and stagnant, rewarding literally wasting time over attacking the enemy.

It's bad gameplay. It's like they took Rock-Paper-Scissors, then nerfed paper, so now the game is just Rock-Scissors. You either play Rock or die, so now everyone is playing Rock, and nobody is dying.

Only low quality dds require ultimate to make a kill, meeting plenty of those in bgs recently though. Crap defensive build and without stacking 2 dawnbreakers with necro colos they cant kill anything. Yet again, l2p issue and own choices.

oh of course.
we all must be just bad.
i mean, its not like nbs only burst is with its ult.
not like there is only one burst combo.
oh wait.

dont compare your class to another and say l2p.
if you think we can burst without an ult go try magblade.

Xvorg

No

Gravord wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

You have more than enough tools, just not insta easy mode kills as overpowered dots gave you before. Adapt, improve

And those tools are?

I did adapt. Stack damage but run a defensive back bar. Stall the fight until your Ultimate is ready. Wait for enemy to let their guard down, then attempt one shot combo using some combination of delayed burst, stun, ulti drop, and execute. Same drill on every class, mag or stam, large or small scale. This is not the dynamic combat I used to enjoy. There's no pressure or momentum. It's flat and stagnant, rewarding literally wasting time over attacking the enemy.

It's bad gameplay. It's like they took Rock-Paper-Scissors, then nerfed paper, so now the game is just Rock-Scissors. You either play Rock or die, so now everyone is playing Rock, and nobody is dying.

Only low quality dds require ultimate to make a kill, meeting plenty of those in bgs recently though. Crap defensive build and without stacking 2 dawnbreakers with necro colos they cant kill anything. Yet again, l2p issue and own choices.

mDKs and Magdens want to talk to you for a second...

NBrookus

No

.

Xvorg wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

You have more than enough tools, just not insta easy mode kills as overpowered dots gave you before. Adapt, improve

And those tools are?

I did adapt. Stack damage but run a defensive back bar. Stall the fight until your Ultimate is ready. Wait for enemy to let their guard down, then attempt one shot combo using some combination of delayed burst, stun, ulti drop, and execute. Same drill on every class, mag or stam, large or small scale. This is not the dynamic combat I used to enjoy. There's no pressure or momentum. It's flat and stagnant, rewarding literally wasting time over attacking the enemy.

It's bad gameplay. It's like they took Rock-Paper-Scissors, then nerfed paper, so now the game is just Rock-Scissors. You either play Rock or die, so now everyone is playing Rock, and nobody is dying.

Only low quality dds require ultimate to make a kill, meeting plenty of those in bgs recently though. Crap defensive build and without stacking 2 dawnbreakers with necro colos they cant kill anything. Yet again, l2p issue and own choices.

mDKs and Magdens want to talk to you for a second...

And necros.

The only class that really doesn't usually equire ult to secure a kill, assuming a reasonable level of enemy, is mag sorc.

Gravord

No

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

You have more than enough tools, just not insta easy mode kills as overpowered dots gave you before. Adapt, improve

And those tools are?

I did adapt. Stack damage but run a defensive back bar. Stall the fight until your Ultimate is ready. Wait for enemy to let their guard down, then attempt one shot combo using some combination of delayed burst, stun, ulti drop, and execute. Same drill on every class, mag or stam, large or small scale. This is not the dynamic combat I used to enjoy. There's no pressure or momentum. It's flat and stagnant, rewarding literally wasting time over attacking the enemy.

It's bad gameplay. It's like they took Rock-Paper-Scissors, then nerfed paper, so now the game is just Rock-Scissors. You either play Rock or die, so now everyone is playing Rock, and nobody is dying.

Only low quality dds require ultimate to make a kill, meeting plenty of those in bgs recently though. Crap defensive build and without stacking 2 dawnbreakers with necro colos they cant kill anything. Yet again, l2p issue and own choices.

oh of course.
we all must be just bad.
i mean, its not like nbs only burst is with its ult.
not like there is only one burst combo.
oh wait.

dont compare your class to another and say l2p.
if you think we can burst without an ult go try magblade.

Seems so, just few very vocal baddies demanding dumbing game down so they can finally kill someone who build proper defenses and they cant be arsed to learn how to counter that. Or other baddies who want solo rush whole groups of players supporting each other and kill them all with 2 clicks and call that a skill.

I main stam nb you know... and ulti is not mandatory part of a kill. Only additional speed to make it even faster when needed.

Hexquisite

No

Here is the thing, everything ESO has changed so far or the past two years, has made it even harder to solo and small scale. The gameplay combined with poor server performance has made it so that most people in Open World CP run in huge groups or zerg surf. Even people I know on opposite factions who used to just solo and duo for years are running in 6 man groups now, some are even running in 12 mans. Everything they did to nerf ball groups made them stronger.

Try as I might I go out and duo and look for an even fight against good players, not potatoes, but usually end up with 20 people chasing us to parts of the map that they prob have never seen before-often times with well known good players in the pack. That is just how the game is now. And because of this, we adjust our builds to try and eek out a win somehow.

If you are thinking that nerfing heals, will make it easier to small scale or solo, I think you are sadly mistaken. For the most part healing is not the problem, it is certain sets, potions, and gameplay mentality.

Gravord

No

Hexquisite wrote: »

Here is the thing, everything ESO has changed so far or the past two years, has made it even harder to solo and small scale. The gameplay combined with poor server performance has made it so that most people in Open World CP run in huge groups or zerg surf. Even people I know on opposite factions who used to just solo and duo for years are running in 6 man groups now, some are even running in 12 mans. Everything they did to nerf ball groups made them stronger.

Try as I might I go out and duo and look for an even fight against good players, not potatoes, but usually end up with 20 people chasing us to parts of the map that they prob have never seen before-often times with well known good players in the pack. That is just how the game is now. And because of this, we adjust our builds to try and eek out a win somehow.

If you are thinking that nerfing heals, will make it easier to small scale or solo, I think you are sadly mistaken. For the most part healing is not the problem, it is certain sets, potions, and gameplay mentality.

ESO had always strong inclination towards ball groups, no player collision allowing easy mode stacking aoe nuking everything getting into contact and too strong aoe ultimates were and still are the main factors. With player collision, both friendly and enemy and a reduced aoe dmg, mindless aoe spam wouldnt be deadly, thus instantly making ball groups useless. In every good pvp mmo, 2 single target dds assisting each other is a most deadly threat you can face, far more dangerous than 5 mindless aoe spams, just not in ESO. Thats why recently i play mostly BGs, when group finder works at all. No CP small scale is as close ESO can get to good pvp. And sure, theres plenty fail build groups there that without triple ulti couldnt kill a mosquito, but thats their build choice. Its game with 10 buttons, most players try to build hybrids with self buffs, self sustain, self heals and with 3 buttons left for actual dmg they are outraged they cant kill anything. Its their damn choice to not be full dd. I wonder how many those screaming for heal nerfs here actually tried play healer in pvp themselves.

xylena

Yes

Gravord wrote: »

Only low quality dds require ultimate to make a kill, meeting plenty of those in bgs recently though.

I can kill low MMR BGs randos without ulti too. Your opinion will change when you step outside No-CP potato mashing.

Moonsorrow

No

Infectious1X wrote: »

@Moonsorrow So essentially you’re saying you enjoy how long fights can be? Well I guess that makes only one of us. I personally don’t enjoy fighting a single person for longer than the time it takes to finish an entire battleground match. Zergs and ballgroups are also irrelevant since if someone finally does die, it’s always damage coming from multiple sources, so obviously they’re going to die. Whether healing is strong or weak wouldn’t change this.

@JinxxND Buff damage? Damage is not the issue. Xylena even points that out. It doesn’t matter how much damage you deal, if you don’t kill them before they have a chance to heal (within less than 2 seconds), you’re not going to kill them as they can recover immediately. I have plenty of examples of temps and magsorcs who literally recover from a single heal faster than an ult, bow, and skoria proc put together. That’s an instant 80%+ in an instant, yet they can easily recover with less effort.

@Iskiab Yeah, people are building tanky and they would only build tankier if healing was reduced, but at least they would inevitably die. I’d rather there be a 5 min fight where I can actually see progress on my opponent’s health rather than this BS, tug of war, back and forth “down to 20%, back up to 100%, back down to 20%, back up to 80%...” Progress doesn’t feel like it’s being made and they only die if they mess up, multiple times.

You did not understand my point. But it`s okay - sometimes they can be a tough read i admit.

Point in short: I an anyone decent i know got no problems on killing our enemies 1vs1 or in groups, yeah people can sometimes run away - BUT that should be a thing that can happen and a thing one can accept. Burst is higher than ever.

If you feel otherwise, it is because you yourself build too tanky and got bad damage, then fight same kind of opponent and have your pillow fights.

Most problems i see often comes from people building too tanky, well duh - then fights as long. I end fights fast, only way they take longer is if the enemy Streaks/Cloaks/Sprints away in CC/Snare immunity and not even plans coming back. I do not chase scared people. Most of them not come back, those that do - die.

Simple enough for me.

Experienced people know that touching healing heavily affects ALL parts of pvp playstyles and it can do it in bad ways. Current situation is not 100% perfect, but its still a solid 95% good for experienced people to play with on.

Sometimes it is better to let things be than trying to remove one card from a card house and then see it all come crashing down.

Beardimus

On self, probably

On others no

Iskiab

No

Gravord wrote: »

Hexquisite wrote: »

Here is the thing, everything ESO has changed so far or the past two years, has made it even harder to solo and small scale. The gameplay combined with poor server performance has made it so that most people in Open World CP run in huge groups or zerg surf. Even people I know on opposite factions who used to just solo and duo for years are running in 6 man groups now, some are even running in 12 mans. Everything they did to nerf ball groups made them stronger.

Try as I might I go out and duo and look for an even fight against good players, not potatoes, but usually end up with 20 people chasing us to parts of the map that they prob have never seen before-often times with well known good players in the pack. That is just how the game is now. And because of this, we adjust our builds to try and eek out a win somehow.

If you are thinking that nerfing heals, will make it easier to small scale or solo, I think you are sadly mistaken. For the most part healing is not the problem, it is certain sets, potions, and gameplay mentality.

ESO had always strong inclination towards ball groups, no player collision allowing easy mode stacking aoe nuking everything getting into contact and too strong aoe ultimates were and still are the main factors. With player collision, both friendly and enemy and a reduced aoe dmg, mindless aoe spam wouldnt be deadly, thus instantly making ball groups useless. In every good pvp mmo, 2 single target dds assisting each other is a most deadly threat you can face, far more dangerous than 5 mindless aoe spams, just not in ESO. Thats why recently i play mostly BGs, when group finder works at all. No CP small scale is as close ESO can get to good pvp. And sure, theres plenty fail build groups there that without triple ulti couldnt kill a mosquito, but thats their build choice. Its game with 10 buttons, most players try to build hybrids with self buffs, self sustain, self heals and with 3 buttons left for actual dmg they are outraged they cant kill anything. Its their damn choice to not be full dd. I wonder how many those screaming for heal nerfs here actually tried play healer in pvp themselves.

I agree totally. Add onto that you can sort of tell it’s from weakish players. People who think you can’t kill players without an Ult because they have no damage, people who’ve never healed despite claiming it’s ‘OP’, etc..,

I mean, if someone really thought healing was OP they’d try it. I don’t think I’ve met a good player who’s been playing the game for a while who hasn’t.

I read one person post that healers are usually weaker players because it’s easier. People have deluded ideas about what it involves and their lack of trying it shows weak playing more than anything else.

LegacyDM

Yes

in PvP why are dps tanks self healing themselves from 0 to hero in an instant? If your a tank you should be a tank. If your a healer u should be a healer. Why are dps tanks even a thing?!

idk

No

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

Learn to use defile, cc and a hundred other tools designed to help you kill.

Ok I’ll use incap.
Oh wait. Zos took of the stun and defile. Tbh if defile and stubs were on more skills that might really make a difference without the need for a nerf. But as it is.

Get better at dpsing? Get another dd to assist your target for fast kill? Why on earth you expect to easy solo kill someone build with only purpose of being hard to kill? You know basic setup of 4 players consist of 2 dds, 1 healer and 1 tank right? Its for a few reasons, in pvp so those dds actually hit same target. And if they know how to play, nothing gonna survive that.

Ok solution to heals.
Zerg them.

No.
The healing is too high rn. Not just in heal builds. Dks get major mending on demand??? Not like they already are the tankiest class.
That’s like putting it on cloak.

But the worst is two players stacking heals on each other.

Dds assisting each other instead going after targets they fail to kill alone is not zerging. Its basic focus fire present in every mmo ive played.
Or, alternatively, improve your build, because ive never met player i couldnt kill.

Oh of course. The l2p.

A load of players all attacking one? Well I don’t know about you but I never outnumber a player unless they were outnumbering me first.
Kinda like an honour code.

And if you’ve never met a player u cannot kill you clearly haven’t played Xbox eu.
Average hp - 28k
Most common classes - stamdk magplar stamsorc
My server is filled with unkillable tanks. And of course entire groups getting healed by several healbots.
Unless I have separated a few players from their group they cannot die due to the constant supply of healing.

As for my build, in cp I run eternal hunt, Spriggans and veli. Not meta because I don’t like meta. But when my procs hit... ded

Nocp I run Valkyn Sloads and viper. People hate that.

I hit hard, I have good sustain, and I kite around zergs for hours, picking of players.

So don’t say l2p. And don’t say it’s my build.

Healing is too high right now.
Reasons:
Lack of defiles.
Cp
Cross healing
The recent scale buffs.

If you think it’s fine then your either one of the players abusing it, or you main Templar.

Again, why do you expect to be able easily kill someone whos whole build resolve around surviving? What would be his point to build defensive it you 3 shot him anyway? Would that be balanced in your opinion? Might aswell play shooter game straight away.
Play no CP campaign, at least you will have it consistent with bgs.
Theres plenty ways of getting defile.
Please link me your vid of kiting zergs for hours, id love to watch it. And while on it, hows that fair for zergs to be unable to kill you? Should you be nerfed?

so. theyre not healer builds. literally the aoe from extended ritual, and regen, and all other healing, stacking with other group heals. sure, a healer should have great heals, but several healers all stacking with all other heals is the issue. your standard build, getting group healed.

no cp on xbox eu is dead. and bgs have a 30m wait time.

defile?. please point out a useful stamnb skill that provides defile.
i dont take vids. and who said i dont die? i use roll dodge and los. and i still die regularly. i just respawn and head back. people are supposed to die in pvp. thats my point.

Oki, clear out something for me please. Do you imply that single extended ritual and regen outheals your dps output? Or, you are saying that you jump at bunch of ppl stacking heal all by yourself and you are outraged you cant kill them? Thats indeed outrageous! Group of ppl supporting each other not getting wrecked by a single guy, wtf is wrong with the game!!

30 min bg wait time? Thats actually better than EU PC most of the time...

There are other way sto aquire defile than stam nb skill.

And you did said you dont die. "Kite zergs for hours" - means you stay alive, score kills and dont die yourself.

aquire defile? ok. the only way i know is the set from cyro. and im not dropping a 5pc for it.

This is a choice and choosing to not use the counter is not a valid reason for nerfing anything. Most of the game would be nerfed if that was the case.

In a group players can be designated to run defile. In a well organized group with an experienced leader they will tell player what skills, etc. they are to run to make sure the group is covered. If running solo then it is still a choice. However when we run solo we are also choosing to not have the full support of a small group and again the game should not be nerfed for solo PvP.