Basics of a PVP build

witchdoctor

Hello!

Anyone know of good vidoes on the basics of putting together a PVP build. That would include concepts like resistances, wep/spell damage, crit damage, regen, etc., and the tradeoffs on each?

Something like Asian and Alcast's PVE videos, but PVP-oriented.

Thanks in advance!

NyassaV

Always have more than 30k of your primary resource. Make sure you have about 3k crit resist. And try to aim for 25k max health. Adjust as nessecary.

Vapirko

witchdoctor wrote: »

Hello!

Anyone know of good vidoes on the basics of putting together a PVP build. That would include concepts like resistances, wep/spell damage, crit damage, regen, etc., and the tradeoffs on each?

Something like Asian and Alcast's PVE videos, but PVP-oriented.

Thanks in advance!

Pelican makes good well rounded PvP builds although not for every single class. Kristofer ESO has some cool niche, hard to play builds but also features other builds. The best thing to do is start basic and focus on the skill aspect.

TheValkyn

Just use this build

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/317589/bg-mvp-peace-tank-ultra-tanky-sorc-troll-king-very-punny-no-shields-lol-dragonhold/p1

witchdoctor

First, thanks all.

I was hoping for explanations, like, how can you best stack crit resist? Impen gear, CP, etc.

(Basically the training wheels to help understand better build videos).

Iskiab

NyassaV wrote: »

Always have more than 30k of your primary resource. Make sure you have about 3k crit resist. And try to aim for 25k max health. Adjust as nessecary.

Basicly this.

It depends on setting and class/role. I primarily play mag so will just talk about them.

For resists you want to have enough so you don’t die every time you’re stunned. This ties into your health pool as well. For things like BGs it’s about 20k resists and 22k health min.
If you’re fighting more opponents or coordinated opponents this number goes up.

For crit resists there are only 4 sources. Impenetrable gear, Transmutation proc, impregnable armour and CPs. CPs have diminishing returns, that’s why always all impen for pvp. Impregnable armour is meh... transmutation’s good but you need to manage always rolling a hot.

For sustain it depends on your class. Low end is templar at 1300, high end are magblades at 2k min.

Then you also have to worry about offstat sustain too. This varies depending on your class, if you’re a Warden or DK you don’t need to worry at all.

Past that it’s go for pure stats. Most proc sets are undertuned and not worth it. Usually being successful is taking the best option out of those available. For example powered on a resto staff increases your healing more then say nirnhoned. Just make the little choices that are optimal and you have yourself a build.

Other than that the only important thing is to always have: major resolve, major sorcery, a cc immunity ability tied with speed (mist form or race against time).

Oh and the tankiness you require is also dependent on your self healing. The more self healing you can bring the less tanky you need to be. This is moreso true against less opponents, as you face more self healing won’t save you (for example a glass sorc can stand toe to toe 1v1, but is useless in battlegrounds).

witchdoctor

Thank you. That's super helpful.

heng14rwb17_ESO

can i have the best of the best mag sorc build ?

Iskiab

heng14rwb17_ESO wrote: »

can i have the best of the best mag sorc build ?

I don’t think there’s a best spec. You’ll see it a lot on the forums; a solo cyrodiil player, a BG player, and a small scale player all calling each other names over which skills and specs are the best, without considering the answer depends on the setting.

ThePhantomThorn

dottz gaming site has loads of builds, and his yt has lots of gameplay and build videos.
they can give you a good template on how to build your personalised build to suit your playstyle.

https://dottzgaming.com/

fred4

It's very difficult to be general and cover the different classes, stamina and magicka, in one post.

Do you wish to play solo or in groups? Do you wish to kill players or be a healer? What class are you gravitating towards?

Pure tanks are, IMO, a dead end, but tanky builds that still do damage are a thing.

We probably all agree on aiming for 3K crit resist in CP, which you'll get from wearing all Impen + 54 points into Resistant.

Nightblade is arguably still the best solo class. Stamina nightblades may get you easy kills, if you go for a Snipe build, but playing nightblades well is difficult. Magicka nightblades are, by and large, underpowered. Cloak is a very black and white proposition. Strong against inexperienced players, but totally ineffective when countered. Generally nightblades are squishy, because investing into damage and mobility is something that suits the class and synergises with Cloak and Shadow Image. While you can build tanky, the archetypical nightblade tries to avoid damage.

Mag sorcs and mag wardens arguably work well as squishy, light armor, magicka stacking builds. Sets to keep in mind include Necropotence, Bright Throat's Boast, Crafty Alfiq and Spinner's. Both classes can take advantage of shields and ramp up their damage by investing heavily into magicka. Of the two, sorc is better able to cope in solo play, due to Streak, a skill that doesn't have the hard counters that Cloak has. Magicka wardens used to excel (and probably still do) at controlling utility builds, e.g. those that snare with ice. They are more AOE focused than sorcs, but they lack mobility.

Due to passives, magicka templars reward stacking spell damage more than they reward stacking magicka. I find it pays off to play magplar without shields, but somewhat tanky. Wear Overwhelming Surge + Shacklebreaker or Amber Plasm + 1x Pirate / 1x Chudan, and you're good to go. Templar is easy mode. Sweeps puts out AOE and single target damage, but both types scale with a Lightning Staff. Easily specced to do a lot of single target and AOE damage and be the bane of all nightblades. Not terribly mobile, thus best played in a group. Templars typically use a lightning staff for damage and either a resto staff, ice staff or 1H+S on the backbar.

I don't know too much about mag DKs. DKs, in general, have a blocking passive, so it suits them to run 1H+S on one bar. The other will be a fire staff for a mag DK and probably a 2H weapon for a stam DK (due to Rally). The archetypical monster set for DKs is Bloodspawn. DKs are counterpunchers. They turn a fight by using their ultimates, which sustain and heal them. They also tend to be tanky and able to soak up a lot of damage, albeit they are slow. This makes Warrior's Fury a good set for stam DKs and I pair it with Seventh Legion and gold food, a well-worn heavy armor combo that yields a lot of weapon damage, but also ups your health regen. You get Minor Brutality as a DK, so you want to invest into weapon damage on that class.

Stamina wardens are kind of similar to DKs. Tanky, good healing, wearing the same kind of armor sets, but they have two legs up on DK: A class burst heal, removing their reliance on 2H (Rally), if you so choose, and Subterranean Assault, a delayed burst skill that they can combo.

Stamsorcs aren't rated as highly. They have some very good utility skills, but lack class burst and are typically very dependent on using Dawnbreaker. Their ability to use Streak and turning magicka into stamina at will, combined with a 10% speed buff from Hurricane, makes them a very fast class that can be played in medium armor. Coming from DK, I find stamsorc feels quite different. Sometimes Crit Surge healing feels very strong, especially when you keep enemies in your Hurricane, but I find a medium armor stamsorc prone to being picked off from range.

I don't have Elsweyr, thus can't say much about Necro. On the one hand it feels like a cookie-cutter inferior warden to me, especially when you compare Blastbones to Shalks. Looking in from the outside, the only thing that seems strong to me are the ultimates.

fred4

I play more on the magicka side, these days. Some general tips:

Be mindful of your stamina sustain. In CP, I find it sufficient to go all Prismatic enchants on gear, which gets you to 12.5K stamina. This allows you a choice of food. In no CP you arguably need more stamina, because break free is so expensive. The Shacklebreaker set can help, if you want to stick with drinks. On the other hand you could go for tri-food, such as Bewitched Sugar Skulls. Furthermore, I like using the stamina versions of various sustain skills, e.g. Restoring Focus and Bull Netch. The benefit is that these skills sustain you even when blocking or sprinting. Leeching Strikes is an option on magblade, though I prefer Siphoning Attacks on that class for various reasons.

I find my magblade needs the most stamina sustain, which I satisfy by using a dual-regen drink (Hissmir Fisheye Rye). On the other hand, magsorc seems to get away with very little. I'm not entirely sure why that is, probably the fact that you Streak instead of dodge rolling and you might survive being stunned due to shield stacking.

Pay close attention to healing while attacking. There is nothing worse than being backed into casting your expensive burst heal (Soothing Spores, Honor the Dead). Those heals are for emergency. While a shield stacking sorc might get away with not healing during attack, other classes benefit from it. It means you can stay on attack longer, which is extremely valuable. Something you can do on every class is running an Infused weapon with a restore health enchant. A vMA resto with Radiating Regeneration is IMO still viable. Structured Entropy helps. Siphoning Attacks / Leeching Strikes allows you to stay on attack longer. Skills like Blood Craze, Sweeps, Swallow Soul heal you while attacking. Cauterize is good on DK. Health regen is a viable option. For example stacking the Steed Mundus, gold food, Seventh Legion and a plain tri-potion gets my stam DK to over 2K health regen in CP without Troll King. Ongoing healing has a large effect on how well your build plays and can sometimes be mistaken for tankiness by other players. In every PvP build I consider how I can add up all those small sources of healing.

Iskiab

fred4 wrote: »

It's very difficult to be general and cover the different classes, stamina and magicka, in one post.

Do you wish to play solo or in groups? Do you wish to kill players or be a healer? What class are you gravitating towards?

Pure tanks are, IMO, a dead end, but tanky builds that still do damage are a thing.

We probably all agree on aiming for 3K crit resist in CP, which you'll get from wearing all Impen + 54 points into Resistant.

Nightblade is arguably still the best solo class. Stamina nightblades may get you easy kills, if you go for a Snipe build, but playing nightblades well is difficult. Magicka nightblades are, by and large, underpowered. Cloak is a very black and white proposition. Strong against inexperienced players, but totally ineffective when countered. Generally nightblades are squishy, because investing into damage and mobility is something that suits the class and synergises with Cloak and Shadow Image. While you can build tanky, the archetypical nightblade tries to avoid damage.

Mag sorcs and mag wardens arguably work well as squishy, light armor, magicka stacking builds. Sets to keep in mind include Necropotence, Bright Throat's Boast, Crafty Alfiq and Spinner's. Both classes can take advantage of shields and ramp up their damage by investing heavily into magicka. Of the two, sorc is better able to cope in solo play, due to Streak, a skill that doesn't have the hard counters that Cloak has. Magicka wardens used to excel (and probably still do) at controlling utility builds, e.g. those that snare with ice. They are more AOE focused than sorcs, but they lack mobility.

Due to passives, magicka templars reward stacking spell damage more than they reward stacking magicka. I find it pays off to play magplar without shields, but somewhat tanky. Wear Overwhelming Surge + Shacklebreaker or Amber Plasm + 1x Pirate / 1x Chudan, and you're good to go. Templar is easy mode. Sweeps puts out AOE and single target damage, but both types scale with a Lightning Staff. Easily specced to do a lot of single target and AOE damage and be the bane of all nightblades. Not terribly mobile, thus best played in a group. Templars typically use a lightning staff for damage and either a resto staff, ice staff or 1H+S on the backbar.

I don't know too much about mag DKs. DKs, in general, have a blocking passive, so it suits them to run 1H+S on one bar. The other will be a fire staff for a mag DK and probably a 2H weapon for a stam DK (due to Rally). The archetypical monster set for DKs is Bloodspawn. DKs are counterpunchers. They turn a fight by using their ultimates, which sustain and heal them. They also tend to be tanky and able to soak up a lot of damage, albeit they are slow. This makes Warrior's Fury a good set for stam DKs and I pair it with Seventh Legion and gold food, a well-worn heavy armor combo that yields a lot of weapon damage, but also ups your health regen. You get Minor Brutality as a DK, so you want to invest into weapon damage on that class.

Stamina wardens are kind of similar to DKs. Tanky, good healing, wearing the same kind of armor sets, but they have two legs up on DK: A class burst heal, removing their reliance on 2H (Rally), if you so choose, and Subterranean Assault, a delayed burst skill that they can combo.

Stamsorcs aren't rated as highly. They have some very good utility skills, but lack class burst and are typically very dependent on using Dawnbreaker. Their ability to use Streak and turning magicka into stamina at will, combined with a 10% speed buff from Hurricane, makes them a very fast class that can be played in medium armor. Coming from DK, I find stamsorc feels quite different. Sometimes Crit Surge healing feels very strong, especially when you keep enemies in your Hurricane, but I find a medium armor stamsorc prone to being picked off from range.

I don't have Elsweyr, thus can't say much about Necro. On the one hand it feels like a cookie-cutter inferior warden to me, especially when you compare Blastbones to Shalks. Looking in from the outside, the only thing that seems strong to me are the ultimates.

Well written and I agree with everything you said with a couple exceptions.

Magplars aren’t that immobile, I use mist form and 2x swift traits and feel just as mobile as other classes. It’s just people usually play Templars in an immobile way.

Necros only get good with harmony. They’re one of the strongest burst classes.

Stam sorcs are also pretty good if you’re an out of box thinker.

fred4

Conversely, if you are playing a stamina class, you may have to think about your magicka sustain. This is especially true for stamblades, since Cloak, the Shade and Fear are all expensive skills.

A stam DK might run Fossilize, which needs some magicka sustain. A stam DK running wings needs quite a lot (at least 1K) to be effective.

A stamsorc, funnily enough, tends to get away with just the base sustain.

fred4

Iskiab wrote: »

Magplars aren’t that immobile, I use mist form and 2x swift traits and feel just as mobile as other classes. It’s just people usually play Templars in an immobile way.

Well, there is so much more that can be said, we're all just scratching the surface until the OP tells us what class he is gravitating towards.

Mist, Race Against Time, Swift traits, those are things that all classes can use. When I think of mobility, though, I think of Streak and Hurricane, the Shade and, to some extent, Concealed Weapon + Cloak, which you can stack with the generic sources of speed. Those two classes, sorc and nightblades, are the mobile ones in my mind, that and a medium armor woodelf build, preferably with a bow (e.g. a stamblade).

I think people do play fast magplars actually. Mist Form, or at least RAT, is common on that class. Armor Focus no longer requires you to stay in the rune. The removal of the range limit on Toppling Charge has made it into a viable stun and made that gap closer popular. With Restoring Focus, the sprint cost reduction this patch, RAT and 2x Swift I feel very mobile myself. However none of that will save you when you get Xv1d and you didn't see it coming early enough. I don't play vamps, so have no good grip on how Mist feels. I tried it once and what bums me about that skill is that it's only Major Expedition. Yes, it's a great skill for the protection and speed combo, but it's not that fast. It's not Concealed + Major Expedition nor Sprint + Major Expedition and it's not in the same league as Streak or the Shade as far as mobility goes, IMO.

Iskiab

fred4 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Magplars aren’t that immobile, I use mist form and 2x swift traits and feel just as mobile as other classes. It’s just people usually play Templars in an immobile way.

Well, there is so much more that can be said, we're all just scratching the surface until the OP tells us what class he is gravitating towards.

Mist, Race Against Time, Swift traits, those are things that all classes can use. When I think of mobility, though, I think of Streak and Hurricane, the Shade and, to some extent, Concealed Weapon + Cloak, which you can stack with the generic sources of speed. Those two classes, sorc and nightblades, are the mobile ones in my mind, that and a medium armor woodelf build, preferably with a bow (e.g. a stamblade).

I think people do play fast magplars actually. Mist Form, or at least RAT, is common on that class. Armor Focus no longer requires you to stay in the rune. The removal of the range limit on Toppling Charge has made it into a viable stun and made that gap closer popular. With Restoring Focus, the sprint cost reduction this patch, RAT and 2x Swift I feel very mobile myself. However none of that will save you when you get Xv1d and you didn't see it coming early enough. I don't play vamps, so have no good grip on how Mist feels. I tried it once and what bums me about that skill is that it's only Major Expedition. Yes, it's a great skill for the protection and speed combo, but it's not that fast. It's not Concealed + Major Expedition nor Sprint + Major Expedition and it's not in the same league as Streak or the Shade as far as mobility goes, IMO.

I’d definitely try Vampire it’s awesome on a templar. Just major expedition with mist isn’t very good, stam will run you down and keep spamming executes while you’re in mist form. 2x swift made a huge difference. If I do something dumb and am too aggressive mist will get me out of a bind. It’s also good because sometimes stam will sprint to catch up to you, mist to line of sight, honour the dead and jump them when they’re low stam. One things though, I find cancelling mist with a dodge roll is a must a lot. People are pretty good at timing their burst with the mist form duration.

If you’re good about keeping ritual up then it’s not just about your speed, applying a snare with your own speed is almost as effective.

The MagDK downside is completely overrated. I don’t have many issues with DKs, as long as I’m not too aggressive trying to take them out in execute range and not keep my buffs up.

Altmer is also great on a templar because the class skills are good. In no-CP I run with 10k stam and no stam sustain sets and do fine, I even dodge roll a lot. I’m just mentioning this because you brought up amber and shacklebreaker. That’s overkill imo. I run New Moon, Bright throat and 2 1 piece armour pieces and I’m fine, this is also using Mara food. You’re likely used to magblade which has sustain issues, with Templars you can cut out a lot of sustain and pump up spell power.

This is my build with CPs disabled:
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=189573

One thing I’ve noticed, there’s an inherent sustain advantage to hitting hard. Defensive abilities cost more than offensive abilities, maybe that’s why it’s working? IDK.

Hotdog_23

Iskiab wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Always have more than 30k of your primary resource. Make sure you have about 3k crit resist. And try to aim for 25k max health. Adjust as nessecary.

Basicly this.

It depends on setting and class/role. I primarily play mag so will just talk about them.

For resists you want to have enough so you don’t die every time you’re stunned. This ties into your health pool as well. For things like BGs it’s about 20k resists and 22k health min.
If you’re fighting more opponents or coordinated opponents this number goes up.

For crit resists there are only 4 sources. Impenetrable gear, Transmutation proc, impregnable armour and CPs. CPs have diminishing returns, that’s why always all impen for pvp. Impregnable armour is meh... transmutation’s good but you need to manage always rolling a hot.

For sustain it depends on your class. Low end is templar at 1300, high end are magblades at 2k min.

Then you also have to worry about offstat sustain too. This varies depending on your class, if you’re a Warden or DK you don’t need to worry at all.

Past that it’s go for pure stats. Most proc sets are undertuned and not worth it. Usually being successful is taking the best option out of those available. For example powered on a resto staff increases your healing more then say nirnhoned. Just make the little choices that are optimal and you have yourself a build.

Other than that the only important thing is to always have: major resolve, major sorcery, a cc immunity ability tied with speed (mist form or race against time).

Oh and the tankiness you require is also dependent on your self healing. The more self healing you can bring the less tanky you need to be. This is moreso true against less opponents, as you face more self healing won’t save you (for example a glass sorc can stand toe to toe 1v1, but is useless in battlegrounds).

Very good advice.

witchdoctor

@fred4

Oh, wow! I wasn't expecting so much.

So, I am in the middle of 'gitting gud' with nightblades. I have played most combos of classes, and in the end, have found NB (mag and stam) and stamDK the most fun. I have made a baby stamplar, though, who is sitting in a stable training a mount.

I have almost exclusively played PVE. I consider myself a competent PVE-er (I get mid-60K on an iron atro, which I know means jack s**t in PVP, but that's where I am coming from). I am a bit tired of vet trials, and so am focusing on DLC dungeons and PVP.

Here is a brief story of what I find fun in PVP. I like being in a group (but I don't mean a ball zerg just rolling across Cyro). This weekend, I hopped EP-side for my stamblade. I found myself invited to a full raid, which had split into three elements each doing a different task. Fun.

I was in a group over at H O. It split open like someone had kicked over an ant hill and AD swarmed out. (Seriously, it was crazy how many AD seemed to spawn out of no where!). I think the majority of my EP group (clearly, not including me, were better than the average AD person in their group). We were outnumbered but there were a lot of dead AD. I found myself at one point having lost my SA (situational awareness) and on the wrong side of a big Yellow line. Oh, damn, son! I spammed Hysteria and crossed that line into a few allied Red. Whew!

I think I killed 1 or 2. I didn't die in that fight. That was fun!

Anyway, that is what seems like fun for me.

My PVP main is meant to be my AD magblade. (The EP stamblade and DC stamDK are alts, PVP-wise). I started this thread so I can better 'pick apart' and try to see 'why' some PVP builds are done as they are (as I can reasonably do PVE-wise).

I was planning to try to make a average, jack-of-all kind-of build to start. Something that can do enough damage to actually kill someone, but with enough defence to give me some padding as I make stoopid mistakes. I plan to pay in 30-day CP campaigns.

Thanks again, everyone!

MartiniDaniels

Iskiab wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Magplars aren’t that immobile, I use mist form and 2x swift traits and feel just as mobile as other classes. It’s just people usually play Templars in an immobile way.

Well, there is so much more that can be said, we're all just scratching the surface until the OP tells us what class he is gravitating towards.

Mist, Race Against Time, Swift traits, those are things that all classes can use. When I think of mobility, though, I think of Streak and Hurricane, the Shade and, to some extent, Concealed Weapon + Cloak, which you can stack with the generic sources of speed. Those two classes, sorc and nightblades, are the mobile ones in my mind, that and a medium armor woodelf build, preferably with a bow (e.g. a stamblade).

I think people do play fast magplars actually. Mist Form, or at least RAT, is common on that class. Armor Focus no longer requires you to stay in the rune. The removal of the range limit on Toppling Charge has made it into a viable stun and made that gap closer popular. With Restoring Focus, the sprint cost reduction this patch, RAT and 2x Swift I feel very mobile myself. However none of that will save you when you get Xv1d and you didn't see it coming early enough. I don't play vamps, so have no good grip on how Mist feels. I tried it once and what bums me about that skill is that it's only Major Expedition. Yes, it's a great skill for the protection and speed combo, but it's not that fast. It's not Concealed + Major Expedition nor Sprint + Major Expedition and it's not in the same league as Streak or the Shade as far as mobility goes, IMO.

I’d definitely try Vampire it’s awesome on a templar. Just major expedition with mist isn’t very good, stam will run you down and keep spamming executes while you’re in mist form. 2x swift made a huge difference. If I do something dumb and am too aggressive mist will get me out of a bind. It’s also good because sometimes stam will sprint to catch up to you, mist to line of sight, honour the dead and jump them when they’re low stam. One things though, I find cancelling mist with a dodge roll is a must a lot. People are pretty good at timing their burst with the mist form duration.

Yep, 2x swift is awesome. I tried running similar builds without swift but with steed, with 1-2-3 golden swifts, and 2 feels like best option. Also swift is better then steed in terms that swift speed bonus always counted from base speed, not from snared speed. So swift is mild anti-snare tool and it works against self-snares too (blocking, sneaking etc). Basically mist&swift means that opponent must spam gap closers or sprint to keep up with you.

fred4

Iskiab wrote: »

Altmer is also great on a templar because the class skills are good. In no-CP I run with 10k stam and no stam sustain sets and do fine, I even dodge roll a lot. I’m just mentioning this because you brought up amber and shacklebreaker. That’s overkill imo.

I'd say you're right. I've been running Amber for many patches and since before I experimentally switched to Restoring Focus. I have long suspected that I'm oversustaining these days. That said, I am a Breton and I do like dodge rolling, coming from my stamblade and lacking Mist Form. Altmer sustains your stam a little and Mist is your "hidden" stamina sustain tool, I mean if you don't always cancel it with a dodge roll.

Unified_Gaming

witchdoctor wrote: »

Hello!

Anyone know of good vidoes on the basics of putting together a PVP build. That would include concepts like resistances, wep/spell damage, crit damage, regen, etc., and the tradeoffs on each?

Something like Asian and Alcast's PVE videos, but PVP-oriented.

Thanks in advance!

I made this specifically for people like yourself

https://youtu.be/jGgiy-qyOhk

Hope this helps and stamina is being covered soon. I also have a magblade build you may find useful as I saw it's your main:

https://youtu.be/JHBCvwIVZUI

Let me know if you need more help - my channel is aimed at helping people getting into pvp

Iskiab

witchdoctor wrote: »

@fred4

Oh, wow! I wasn't expecting so much.

So, I am in the middle of 'gitting gud' with nightblades. I have played most combos of classes, and in the end, have found NB (mag and stam) and stamDK the most fun. I have made a baby stamplar, though, who is sitting in a stable training a mount.

I have almost exclusively played PVE. I consider myself a competent PVE-er (I get mid-60K on an iron atro, which I know means jack s**t in PVP, but that's where I am coming from). I am a bit tired of vet trials, and so am focusing on DLC dungeons and PVP.

Here is a brief story of what I find fun in PVP. I like being in a group (but I don't mean a ball zerg just rolling across Cyro). This weekend, I hopped EP-side for my stamblade. I found myself invited to a full raid, which had split into three elements each doing a different task. Fun.

I was in a group over at H O. It split open like someone had kicked over an ant hill and AD swarmed out. (Seriously, it was crazy how many AD seemed to spawn out of no where!). I think the majority of my EP group (clearly, not including me, were better than the average AD person in their group). We were outnumbered but there were a lot of dead AD. I found myself at one point having lost my SA (situational awareness) and on the wrong side of a big Yellow line. Oh, damn, son! I spammed Hysteria and crossed that line into a few allied Red. Whew!

I think I killed 1 or 2. I didn't die in that fight. That was fun!

Anyway, that is what seems like fun for me.

My PVP main is meant to be my AD magblade. (The EP stamblade and DC stamDK are alts, PVP-wise). I started this thread so I can better 'pick apart' and try to see 'why' some PVP builds are done as they are (as I can reasonably do PVE-wise).

I was planning to try to make a average, jack-of-all kind-of build to start. Something that can do enough damage to actually kill someone, but with enough defence to give me some padding as I make stoopid mistakes. I plan to pay in 30-day CP campaigns.

Thanks again, everyone!

Magblades do well in larger groups, you’ll be fine. The way to build around this setting depends almost purely on your personal preferences and who’s around you. The difficulty is that you can’t be everything, and the more your team mates are random/disorganized the more versatile you need to be to compensate. The other problem is the more you focus on group support the weaker you are 1v1. Here are some questions you need to ask yourself:

Do you like being in the front line as a tank, or at the back? (NBs are better at a back line role)
How much do you want to support those around you? Or just F’em they don’t help me so whatever.
Are you going to use the big expensive abilities? They’re good, but to use stuff like time stop and cleanse you really need to pump up your mag regen.

fred4

The magblades are hanging out in this thread:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/488250/magblade-theorycrafting-changes-thread

This is my home turf. I main a magblade. Couple of ways to go:

Magicka stacking is viable on magblade as they have a +8% magicka passive from slotting a Siphoning skill and the shade counts as a pet for Necropotence. In general, if you're going that route, it pays to really commit to it. Use Dampen Magic, not Harness Magicka. Make the shield as big as you can. Probably use Inner Light. Aim for 50K+ magicka in CP. This is the point where Dampen starts feeling really useful, as it gives you breathing room to stay out of cloak and on attack. This build philosophy is exemplified by a YouTuber, Isth3reno1else:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyqrsWzXf8o

Traditional magblade playstyles revolve around 2 skills: Merciless Resolve and Shadow Image. Ganking isn't really their strength, but it's controlling the fight with the shade, while you build towards Assassin's Will. This is very much a single-target duelling focused playstyle. You probably want to play around the edges of fights.

The complete opposite of that is playing a bomber. This allows you to fight tight ball groups, something you normally struggle with. Basically you wear something like Spinner or New Moon Accolyte + Balorgh + Vicious Death and you cloak into the middle of a group where you set off your Proximity Detonation, combined with an ultimate. The downside is that this type of build is is very specialised.

Finally you can play a (Caluurion) ganker, which is what I'm doing. My playstyle eschews Merciless Resolve and Shadow Image altogether. Instead I rely on Cloak, very high speed and sustain. If you don't use the shade and you're not a vamp, you're well advised to invest into speed and stam sustain. Speed synergises with Cloak. I personally go all out with 3x gold Swift, Steed mundus, Race Against Time, Shadowy Disguise, Concealed Weapon and Windrunning from CP. This gets you to +85% movement speed at which point the game engine is near breaking point. Magplars start having trouble landing their gap closers, if you're moving at full speed. Here's a clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dxsUVeGGLc

To play a magblade ganker, nothing beats Caluurion. As magblades go, this is easy mode, but magblade as a whole is not. The burst is accessible, the surprise factor is real, but the damage isn't super high and making cloak work isn't easy, because of all the counters. Also, playing any squishy, movement-for-defence based build isn't easy and requires low ping, but I find it the most fun and ultimately the most effective. I particularly value my sustain, including the stamina sustain, as a means for defense. Dodge rolls have IMO more potential to save you than building tankier. My current build is here:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=197810

Since the video I have moved Caluurion and Lotus Fan to the ranged bar, using Concealed completely passively, and this works better. Instead of trying to stay on top of the target after the burst, which is typically Lotus Fan -> Fear (Caluurion) -> Soul Harvest, I now tend to back off to a middle distance and hit them with Swallow Soul or Impale. It's easier to keep hitting targets that way, which makes up for the loss of Zaan, replaced by Troll King.

I have previously talked at length about the vagaries of the combat engine, why cost reduction beats mag recovery and why Bright Throat's is practically unbeatable to facilitate the kind of perma-cloaking, constantly RAT-casting build I run. Peruse the Magblade Theory Crafting build, if you wish to learn more.

Iskiab

fred4 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Altmer is also great on a templar because the class skills are good. In no-CP I run with 10k stam and no stam sustain sets and do fine, I even dodge roll a lot. I’m just mentioning this because you brought up amber and shacklebreaker. That’s overkill imo.

I'd say you're right. I've been running Amber for many patches and since before I experimentally switched to Restoring Focus. I have long suspected that I'm oversustaining these days. That said, I am a Breton and I do like dodge rolling, coming from my stamblade and lacking Mist Form. Altmer sustains your stam a little and Mist is your "hidden" stamina sustain tool, I mean if you don't always cancel it with a dodge roll.

Yea, as a Breton you need something. These days break free is so buggy. I don’t see much of a benefit to stamina anyways. Maybe if they fix break free more stamina would be better.

Most of the time in pvp it’s stun first, stun often, rely on break free not working.

Half the self proclaimed pvp experts are full of it, they just roll in a premade and lead with a stun to burst people.

fred4

In terms of group play, what Iskiab says is true. You tend to be squishy and organised groups spamming AOE are your nemesis. Hence hanging around the back line or towing the combat line is advised. If you're playing with a guild on Discord, the group leader may tell you to stay on crown or to stay near the healers as the group tries to stand it's ground. Don't do it, if you are a cloaking magblade! For group members to benefit from the healing, they still need a certain amount of tankiness that you probably don't have. Cloak and staying on the edges of the fight is a FAR better defense and you may serve your group better by being the one that survives and places a forward camp.

The alternative to staying along the battle line is to cloak around the enemy zerg and try to pick off targets from behind. In that case I always try to make sure I have no one behind me when I uncloak. You don't want to be right in the face of the enemy group. You want them facing the other way, then attack stragglers at the rear of the group.

A useful thing magblade excels at is setting enemy siege on fire. Uncloak inside a trebuchet or ballista and it usually takes a few seconds for the enemy to catch on. By the time they do, you've set the siege on fire and are dodge rolling or shading out. Destroying and placing forward camps, as well as scouting, are other useful activities any magblade is good at with a minimum of skill. If I want to relax a little, I sometimes just do that.

Iskiab

Actually, I played some BGs and cyrodiil today. Server performance feels worse today than last week, whatever number I said for min health and resists I’d say you need a bit more.

witchdoctor

Thanks again, everyone. Lots of information!