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Cancel MMR of Battleground
I propose to cancel MMR for the selection of BG matches, as this creates additional bugs in the game, this is an additional detail of BG what doesnt work correct, MMR needs to be reworked or removed altogether, but for today, it’s better to simply remove it, who think that I am right?
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Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I mean Global Elites should be playing against Global elites, while silvers should be playing against other silvers....no?4 -
Canned_Apples✭✭✭✭✭
✭
“No, I want to be able to face roll n00bs!”Goregrinder wrote: »I mean Global Elites should be playing against Global elites, while silvers should be playing against other silvers....no?
7 -
ChunkyCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Canned_Apples wrote: »
No, I want to be able to face roll n00bs!Goregrinder wrote: »I mean Global Elites should be playing against Global elites, while silvers should be playing against other silvers....no?
I really do, tho.2 -
OG_Kaveman✭✭✭✭✭Canned_Apples wrote: »
“No, I want to be able to face roll n00bs!”Goregrinder wrote: »I mean Global Elites should be playing against Global elites, while silvers should be playing against other silvers....no?
More like I want to just play the game, from what I understand once you get to high mmr, the game takes forever to find a match for you. That is worse then some "elites" "face rolling" "noobs".6 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Canned_Apples wrote: »
“No, I want to be able to face roll n00bs!”Goregrinder wrote: »I mean Global Elites should be playing against Global elites, while silvers should be playing against other silvers....no?
I want to have a random que take less than 10 minutes tyvm. There is no real ranked rewards in random bg ques2 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OG_Kaveman wrote: »Canned_Apples wrote: »
“No, I want to be able to face roll n00bs!”Goregrinder wrote: »I mean Global Elites should be playing against Global elites, while silvers should be playing against other silvers....no?
More like I want to just play the game, from what I understand once you get to high mmr, the game takes forever to find a match for you. That is worse then some "elites" "face rolling" "noobs".
Because there are less people who have "gitten gud". That's just a natural occurrence when you deal with anything related to skill. The higher you go up in any skill bracket, the less amount of other people there will be in that bracket.1 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MMR has issues. I think they’re constantly tweaking it but it can be rough.
I’m finding what’s happening on my new toon is there’s too big a gap between the strength of players. Some games it’s all new players who’re probably there to get vigor who just get wrecked. Some games it’s a lot of BG regulars dispersed among the teams with new players, and the new players get wrecked.
Plus if someone leaves a match they aren’t being replaced.
So some games you’ll have one strong team of 4, I’ll solo queue and get one decent player and two new players. The new players will leave because they’re getting wrecked and not get replaced. Something feels off.
It doesn’t feel like the games aren’t being setup well, so people are leaving and not being replaced which makes it more imbalanced. I’m almost never entering a game mid match so I think they changed something.Edited by Iskiab on December 13, 2019 1:41AMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten2 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »Canned_Apples wrote: »
“No, I want to be able to face roll n00bs!”Goregrinder wrote: »I mean Global Elites should be playing against Global elites, while silvers should be playing against other silvers....no?
More like I want to just play the game, from what I understand once you get to high mmr, the game takes forever to find a match for you. That is worse then some "elites" "face rolling" "noobs".
Because there are less people who have "gitten gud". That's just a natural occurrence when you deal with anything related to skill. The higher you go up in any skill bracket, the less amount of other people there will be in that bracket.
Except in this case there's way less people than you'd naturally expect from a ranked matching system, which is why queue times are so astronomically high at the top MMR brackets. The BG population just cannot support a ranked matching system, so the best thing to do, if we want the game to actually be enjoyable for everybody, would be to either significantly loosen the MMR requirements to find a match, or do away with it entirely, both of which screw over the lower tier players.
It's a *** situation for everybody involved, but unfortunately it's a situation that Zenimax, as per usual, created. MMR is only like a quarter completed, at best, and the BG queue sucks complete ass, so that, combined with the general PvP issues, has resulted in the BG population decaying substantially. That's the reality of the situation, and no amount of "my feelings are hurt!" or "what about the new players!" will change that.1 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »Canned_Apples wrote: »
“No, I want to be able to face roll n00bs!”Goregrinder wrote: »I mean Global Elites should be playing against Global elites, while silvers should be playing against other silvers....no?
More like I want to just play the game, from what I understand once you get to high mmr, the game takes forever to find a match for you. That is worse then some "elites" "face rolling" "noobs".
Because there are less people who have "gitten gud". That's just a natural occurrence when you deal with anything related to skill. The higher you go up in any skill bracket, the less amount of other people there will be in that bracket.
Except in this case there's way less people than you'd naturally expect from a ranked matching system, which is why queue times are so astronomically high at the top MMR brackets. The BG population just cannot support a ranked matching system, so the best thing to do, if we want the game to actually be enjoyable for everybody, would be to either significantly loosen the MMR requirements to find a match, or do away with it entirely, both of which screw over the lower tier players.
It's a *** situation for everybody involved, but unfortunately it's a situation that Zenimax, as per usual, created. MMR is only like a quarter completed, at best, and the BG queue sucks complete ass, so that, combined with the general PvP issues, has resulted in the BG population decaying substantially. That's the reality of the situation, and no amount of "my feelings are hurt!" or "what about the new players!" will change that.
The only thing they did was introduce BG's to ESO. Are you saying that was a mistake? Because how do you have BG's without making sure potatoes aren't stuck playing against vet 1vXers without any kind of match making rank system?1 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MMR has issues. I think they’re constantly tweaking it but it can be rough.
This is the problem. They're tweaking numbers belonging to a system that is fundamentally broken. If the very foundation of your system is garbage, no amount of room renovation will fix your walls and ceiling crumbling, you need to tear the whole thing down and redo the foundation.
The fact that MMR is only based off of your medal score, ie a glorified play time, makes it fundamentally broken.
The fact that there's no natural decay based on the time between the last login and now, makes it fundamentally broken.
The fact that groups are literally only separated by having their MMR multiplied by a big number, in a system where MMR can only naturally go up, makes it fundamentally broken.
Take MMR out, start working on a replacement that pulls from multiple stats (medal score, win/loss, damage done, healing done, kills/deaths/assists, game mode specific stats such as how long you held the ball in Chaosball or how many flags you've defended in Crazy King, game mode specific weighting of generic stats), implement a natural decay, and introduce a separate variable that represents groups. Fix the foundation, stop renovating rooms.5 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »The only thing they did was introduce BG's to ESO. Are you saying that was a mistake?
They've screwed up through inaction. MMR has been a failure from the start, and players made it known. The queue has been broken from the start, and players made it known. Yet nothing has been done. I made 3 separate threads and kept them on the front page until the last week or two of the Murkmire, Wrathstone, and Elsweyr PTS periods, and yet nothing has been done.Goregrinder wrote: »Because how do you have BG's without making sure potatoes aren't stuck playing against vet 1vXers without any kind of match making rank system?
If you actually read what I posted, I said that while a ranked matching system would work, it doesn't specifically in ESO because of the low population. I remember watching PvP streamers a year ago, and they spent almost all of their time doing BGs back to back, because they were fun.
But because they were doing them back to back, their MMR started reaching new heights never before seen, and the problems started cropping up. Astronomically long queue times, constant matching against the same few players leading to boring and predictable matches, constant matching against premades that left them hanging back and often left the match timing out before teams could even reach 200 points.
When these problems started obviously hurting their experience, they simply stopped doing BGs, and moved back into Cyrodiil, which is what they originally started doing BGs for, to get away from the poor performance.
It is through Zenimax's inaction to fix these problems, that the BG population in the higher MMR brackets has plummeted. And what we're left with is a game mode that simply doesn't have the populations to support even an incredibly robust and scalable ranked matching system. A ranked matching system doesn't work when you only have a dozen to two dozen people at the top, if even.0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Or if we must have MMR then at least make it display in game so we can offer suggestions on how to improve it.3 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MMR has issues. I think they’re constantly tweaking it but it can be rough.
This is the problem. They're tweaking numbers belonging to a system that is fundamentally broken. If the very foundation of your system is garbage, no amount of room renovation will fix your walls and ceiling crumbling, you need to tear the whole thing down and redo the foundation.
The fact that MMR is only based off of your medal score, ie a glorified play time, makes it fundamentally broken.
The fact that there's no natural decay based on the time between the last login and now, makes it fundamentally broken.
The fact that groups are literally only separated by having their MMR multiplied by a big number, in a system where MMR can only naturally go up, makes it fundamentally broken.
Take MMR out, start working on a replacement that pulls from multiple stats (medal score, win/loss, damage done, healing done, kills/deaths/assists, game mode specific stats such as how long you held the ball in Chaosball or how many flags you've defended in Crazy King, game mode specific weighting of generic stats), implement a natural decay, and introduce a separate variable that represents groups. Fix the foundation, stop renovating rooms.
They need some system to separate pvpers from people learning or maybe just there to get vigor. MMR at least does that.
Decay would be good if it’s not already in place. With large balance swings your character can climb up the ranks and get really high, then with game changes you can end up outclassed by other players. Something so you can go down is a good idea.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
OG_Kaveman✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »Canned_Apples wrote: »
“No, I want to be able to face roll n00bs!”Goregrinder wrote: »I mean Global Elites should be playing against Global elites, while silvers should be playing against other silvers....no?
More like I want to just play the game, from what I understand once you get to high mmr, the game takes forever to find a match for you. That is worse then some "elites" "face rolling" "noobs".
Because there are less people who have "gitten gud". That's just a natural occurrence when you deal with anything related to skill. The higher you go up in any skill bracket, the less amount of other people there will be in that bracket.
So what? You are basically saying "become too good at the game and you don't get to play the game". There should be a time limit, like if they can't find players at your level after 2 minutes, the search is expanded. No one ought to be waiting more then 5 minutes for a match.Edited by OG_Kaveman on December 13, 2019 3:28AM2 -
Canned_Apples✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tanks, healers ,and sorcs.. that's all high mmr bgs consist of. so boring.
Edit: two matches, back-to-back, each with 4-5 magsorcs...Edited by Canned_Apples on December 13, 2019 6:51AM0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »I mean Global Elites should be playing against Global elites, while silvers should be playing against other silvers....no?
Exactly. But now, MMR is fully cumulative and cannot go down, therefore it serves no purpose. After every match, no matter how bad you were, your MMR will go up. So it's pretty common to have silvers and global elites in the same match. Your MMR depends only on time spent in BGs. Also MMR is separate for each of your characters. That means, this flawed system discourages you to play a lot of BGs (in order to not be placed frequently against Global Elites) and encourages you to switch characters often (in order to disperse your MMR between your characters).
@OhNoDaedra I am all for removing MMR temporarily until they come with system that is used in most PvP-only games. Removing MMR in it's current state altogether would change only one thing. Global Elites would still go against silvers, just like now, but at least queue times would be shorter.Edited by Olupajmibanan on December 13, 2019 7:33AM1 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agree, remove it temporary so we can get into bg's faster. Ridiculous to wait 15 minutes for anything that isn't a deathmatch when you're high mmr1 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OG_Kaveman wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »Canned_Apples wrote: »
“No, I want to be able to face roll n00bs!”Goregrinder wrote: »I mean Global Elites should be playing against Global elites, while silvers should be playing against other silvers....no?
More like I want to just play the game, from what I understand once you get to high mmr, the game takes forever to find a match for you. That is worse then some "elites" "face rolling" "noobs".
Because there are less people who have "gitten gud". That's just a natural occurrence when you deal with anything related to skill. The higher you go up in any skill bracket, the less amount of other people there will be in that bracket.
So what? You are basically saying "become too good at the game and you don't get to play the game". There should be a time limit, like if they can't find players at your level after 2 minutes, the search is expanded. No one ought to be waiting more then 5 minutes for a match.
So much this, amen!
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Edited by OhNoDaedra on December 14, 2019 11:29AM0
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Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »I mean Global Elites should be playing against Global elites, while silvers should be playing against other silvers....no?
Exactly. But now, MMR is fully cumulative and cannot go down, therefore it serves no purpose. After every match, no matter how bad you were, your MMR will go up. So it's pretty common to have silvers and global elites in the same match. Your MMR depends only on time spent in BGs. Also MMR is separate for each of your characters. That means, this flawed system discourages you to play a lot of BGs (in order to not be placed frequently against Global Elites) and encourages you to switch characters often (in order to disperse your MMR between your characters).
@OhNoDaedra I am all for removing MMR temporarily until they come with system that is used in most PvP-only games. Removing MMR in it's current state altogether would change only one thing. Global Elites would still go against silvers, just like now, but at least queue times would be shorter.
What are global elites, silver and golds?Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten1 -
OG_Kaveman✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »I mean Global Elites should be playing against Global elites, while silvers should be playing against other silvers....no?
Exactly. But now, MMR is fully cumulative and cannot go down, therefore it serves no purpose. After every match, no matter how bad you were, your MMR will go up. So it's pretty common to have silvers and global elites in the same match. Your MMR depends only on time spent in BGs. Also MMR is separate for each of your characters. That means, this flawed system discourages you to play a lot of BGs (in order to not be placed frequently against Global Elites) and encourages you to switch characters often (in order to disperse your MMR between your characters).
@OhNoDaedra I am all for removing MMR temporarily until they come with system that is used in most PvP-only games. Removing MMR in it's current state altogether would change only one thing. Global Elites would still go against silvers, just like now, but at least queue times would be shorter.
What are global elites, silver and golds?
euphemisms.0 -
Reyleigh✭✭✭How do you know if you have high MMR ?
Maybe its all RNG and you don't have the favor of the RNG gods ?
I do quite a lot of BGs and sometimes it takes ages and sometimes almost instant0 -
Stebarnz✭✭✭✭✭
✭How about, everyone queue's together in one pot all random, no premades but...
The higher your MMR you get like a debuff, less wd or sd or movement speed or regen debuff, something like that.
Level the playing field.
I'd be down for the debuff to get quick queue's0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OG_Kaveman wrote: »Canned_Apples wrote: »
“No, I want to be able to face roll n00bs!”Goregrinder wrote: »I mean Global Elites should be playing against Global elites, while silvers should be playing against other silvers....no?
More like I want to just play the game, from what I understand once you get to high mmr, the game takes forever to find a match for you. That is worse then some "elites" "face rolling" "noobs".
For you, maybe. For the noobs, never being able to find a fair match again is far worse.
They should rework the system, not remove it.Edited by spartaxoxo on December 14, 2019 11:04PM2 -
OG_Kaveman✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »Canned_Apples wrote: »
“No, I want to be able to face roll n00bs!”Goregrinder wrote: »I mean Global Elites should be playing against Global elites, while silvers should be playing against other silvers....no?
More like I want to just play the game, from what I understand once you get to high mmr, the game takes forever to find a match for you. That is worse then some "elites" "face rolling" "noobs".
For you, maybe. For the noobs, never being able to find a fair match again is far worse.
They should rework the system, not remove it.
no, it is not, matches that have good players and bad players are at least quick. you are literally saying it is worse for a bad player to be able to player the game but have a *small* chance(and it is small, there are far more bad players then good) to get smashed by a good player then it is for a good player to not be able to play the game. how is that possible? not being able to play at all is literally the worst thing that happen in a game.Edited by OG_Kaveman on December 15, 2019 1:22AM3 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OG_Kaveman wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »Canned_Apples wrote: »
“No, I want to be able to face roll n00bs!”Goregrinder wrote: »I mean Global Elites should be playing against Global elites, while silvers should be playing against other silvers....no?
More like I want to just play the game, from what I understand once you get to high mmr, the game takes forever to find a match for you. That is worse then some "elites" "face rolling" "noobs".
For you, maybe. For the noobs, never being able to find a fair match again is far worse.
They should rework the system, not remove it.
no, it is not, matches that have good players and bad players are at least quick. you are literally saying it is worse for a bad player to be able to player the game but have a *small* chance(and it is small, there are far more bad players then good) to get smashed by a good player then it is for a good player to not be able to play the game. how is that possible? not being able to play at all is literally the worst thing that happen in a game.
Some people genuinely think that newer players are the most important players in the game, and us vets don't even deserve to play and enjoy the game. It's incredibly infuriating.1 -
Canned_Apples✭✭✭✭✭
✭I Played two matches, one today and one yesterday, and both were awful. There was only one other good/decent player present. Playing against low mmr players is so boring.0
