WTB Game Developers

siddique · December 2019

Please, you need more people to work and fix this. Two maintenances later, I bluescreened four times yesterday. Once while standing in my house, three times in vSS.

Two people bluescreened when Nahvintaas was in execute, we had to hold him down until they were back because otherwise they wouldn't get the loot.

So yes, LF Developers, press X in chat.

GhostofDatthaw · December 2019

Eso is at the point where if you are more frustrated than you are having fun because of performance than find something else to play for a while.

It's what I did.

I love eso, and Bethesda.

But I can't support a game in this condition and it makes me sad

Asardes · December 2019

Do you have 10-15 grand to pay each one monthly?

jlboozer · December 2019

I actually bluescreened in the character select screen yesterday, I didn't even know that was possible.

LonePirate · December 2019

Asardes wrote: »

Do you have 10-15 grand to pay each one monthly?

Apparently, neither does ZOS; but you can bet their executives are well-compensated beyond their needs.

dotme · December 2019

Asardes wrote: »

Do you have 10-15 grand to pay each one monthly?

ZOS would, if the game performance hadn't driven away so many ESO+ subscribers. It's probably a spiral - poor performance leads to less revenue, and less revenue means less to spend on fixes.

I don't think the developers are to blame. It's more likely to be cultural - meet deadlines at all costs, release new content at all costs, and those timelines/pressures can sometimes result in mistakes, cut corners and a drop in basic standards.

It's a shame because you know these people pour their heart and souls into the game. The art work is magnificent, zone detail meticulous and many other aspects are really outstanding. But somewhere in all of this, performance has slipped badly and I'm afraid it's likely costing ESO some good players, and a lot of potential revenue.

redlink1979 · December 2019

jlboozer wrote: »

I actually bluescreened in the character select screen yesterday, I didn't even know that was possible.

This already happened to me a couple of times. You're not alone, bud.

Asardes · December 2019

I play on PC and I don't have any client related performance issues; all my recent problems were entirely server related (congestion). Maybe they simply put too much detail (textures, polygons) in game and older PCs as well as consoles can't handle them and crash as a result. I don't know the computing power equivalent of those as I never had a console, and I haven't been interested in getting one but probably they're like a mid range PC from 2010 if I look at the price. The game is poorly optimized in that regard in general. There are trials where even my $1500 desktop computer, bought this year, can barely get 30-40 fps. My old one, which was closer to a console, was stuck at single digit FPS in the same trial before. Maybe it's simply engine limitations, as it looks pretty archaic and they can't do much about it.

Guyle · December 2019

I thought we already did when we bought the game

kargen27 · December 2019

What makes you think more people would fix the problem? Ever heard the term to many cooks in the kitchen?

xxthir13enxx · December 2019

kargen27 wrote: »

What makes you think more people would fix the problem? Ever heard the term to many cooks in the kitchen?

We’re still looking for the Master Chef.....
This Hells Kitchen we’re in currently is serving us raw chicken...

synesthesia · December 2019

siddique wrote: »

Please, you need more people to work and fix this. Two maintenances later, I bluescreened four times yesterday. Once while standing in my house, three times in vSS.

Good programmers are few and far between, and you're probably looking at $300,000 a year for someone who knows what they're doing. So that's about 3000 eso+ subscriptions to hire someone who may make things worse, cause you don't know what you're getting most of the time.

And wages might be even higher because companies like Google and Microsoft like to hire the best before they become competition.

RefLiberty · December 2019

The problem are not Devs but allocations of resources to crown store and pushing new content / DLC while they need to invest more resources and manpower in fixing the issues.

I believe that the current policy is Sell, Sell, Sell instead of Quality.

If Zos put revenue and sales department to have the last word, instead of equal relationship with content, quality and creative department, then no wonder.

If excel clickers and paper pushers say they want new content and CS items to sell more, and they have final word, then all the Devs of the world can F themselfs and continue to click new CS Gem mount.

siddique · December 2019

Asardes wrote: »

Do you have 10-15 grand to pay each one monthly?

Would they take crowns?

jircris11 · December 2019

Asardes wrote: »

I play on PC and I don't have any client related performance issues; all my recent problems were entirely server related (congestion). Maybe they simply put too much detail (textures, polygons) in game and older PCs as well as consoles can't handle them and crash as a result. I don't know the computing power equivalent of those as I never had a console, and I haven't been interested in getting one but probably they're like a mid range PC from 2010 if I look at the price. The game is poorly optimized in that regard in general. There are trials where even my $1500 desktop computer, bought this year, can barely get 30-40 fps. My old one, which was closer to a console, was stuck at single digit FPS in the same trial before. Maybe it's simply engine limitations, as it looks pretty archaic and they can't do much about it.

Most issues are console or EU related.

Davadin · December 2019

hold up.

bluescreen?

as in... Windows' BSOD?

what is this blue screen people talking about here?

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka · December 2019

Greetings,

Some posts have been removed due to inappropriate content. Please remember to abide by our community rules when posting on the forums.

Shantu · December 2019

If the issue is an under-performing server infrastructure, which ZOS as acknowledged is a problem, then a 1000 new developers are not going to fix anything. There's a big difference between people who develop software and those who design, maintain, and administer complex server structures.

CiliPadi · December 2019

Shantu wrote: »

If the issue is an under-performing server infrastructure, which ZOS as acknowledged is a problem, then a 1000 new developers are not going to fix anything. There's a big difference between people who develop software and those who design, maintain, and administer complex server structures.

Definitely, the mega server concept is great, but clearly it is showing scaling problems. Maybe it would be better to make a third megaserver ... maybe for the Oceania/Asia region? One can hope right? :P

siddique · December 2019

Shantu wrote: »

If the issue is an under-performing server infrastructure, which ZOS as acknowledged is a problem, then a 1000 new developers are not going to fix anything. There's a big difference between people who develop software and those who design, maintain, and administer complex server structures.

If.
If it is lazy programming or overburdened programmers, a lot less than 1,000 new developers would help.

Either way, the point of the post is primarily to fix the issue, not go in the semantics of it.

Dragonredux · December 2019

Davadin wrote: »

hold up.

bluescreen?

as in... Windows' BSOD?

what is this blue screen people talking about here?

I pretty sure they mean the PS4 crash screen.

KillsAllElves · December 2019

synesthesia wrote: »

show previous quotes

siddique wrote: »

Please, you need more people to work and fix this. Two maintenances later, I bluescreened four times yesterday. Once while standing in my house, three times in vSS.

Good programmers are few and far between, and you're probably looking at $300,000 a year for someone who knows what they're doing. So that's about 3000 eso+ subscriptions to hire someone who may make things worse, cause you don't know what you're getting most of the time.

And wages might be even higher because companies like Google and Microsoft like to hire the best before they become competition.

I know 13 game programmers on a personal level. 2 of them work for microsoft and siemens, Not a single one of them makes over 75k excluding bonus/incentives. If a programmer is making over 100k or the "300k theory" that person is doing more than programming.
There are many good programmers in the video game industry. Wether they be a full time employee or a sub contracter. The problem is not a lack of "good programmers", its whats inside the game that is the root of the problems we experience. I.E. Champion point system, inactive pllayers that are causing data storage issues, etc etc...

Server upgrade would help tremendously.

nafensoriel · December 2019

KillsAllElves wrote: »

show previous quotes

synesthesia wrote: »

siddique wrote: »

Please, you need more people to work and fix this. Two maintenances later, I bluescreened four times yesterday. Once while standing in my house, three times in vSS.

Good programmers are few and far between, and you're probably looking at $300,000 a year for someone who knows what they're doing. So that's about 3000 eso+ subscriptions to hire someone who may make things worse, cause you don't know what you're getting most of the time.

And wages might be even higher because companies like Google and Microsoft like to hire the best before they become competition.

I know 13 game programmers on a personal level. 2 of them work for microsoft and siemens, Not a single one of them makes over 75k excluding bonus/incentives. If a programmer is making over 100k or the "300k theory" that person is doing more than programming.
There are many good programmers in the video game industry. Wether they be a full time employee or a sub contracter. The problem is not a lack of "good programmers", its whats inside the game that is the root of the problems we experience. I.E. Champion point system, inactive pllayers that are causing data storage issues, etc etc...

Server upgrade would help tremendously.

Well, then you know nothing random forum poster!

Since it has been publically stated all the server issues experienced by EUPC are SOFTWARE based and the bluescreen issue was an unexpected memory leak.

No amount of hardware improvements will fix a software flaw.

Also, there is a difference in what you code. Game developers tend to make a premium bonus wise due to the crunch. It depends on what state/country you are in as well. The actual problem with any 5-year-old piece of constantly updated piece of software is spaghetti and the fact that there will be entire areas of the software that no one remotely remembers let alone understands that somehow WILL impact all your new additions. A "Good" programer is often the guy who can force two entirely different elements to work together with duct tape and prayers. "Bad" programmers are ones that can only scrap and restart every single project.

Aurielle · December 2019

Davadin wrote: »

hold up.

bluescreen?

as in... Windows' BSOD?

what is this blue screen people talking about here?

It refers to the blue report screen that comes up when a game/application crashes (the PS4 has a blue interface). It has nothing in common with a Windows BSOD/hardware related crash. The PS4 itself does not require a hard reset after “blue screening.”

Edit: Pics from another thread:

KillsAllElves · December 2019

nafensoriel wrote: »

show previous quotes

KillsAllElves wrote: »

synesthesia wrote: »

siddique wrote: »

Please, you need more people to work and fix this. Two maintenances later, I bluescreened four times yesterday. Once while standing in my house, three times in vSS.

Good programmers are few and far between, and you're probably looking at $300,000 a year for someone who knows what they're doing. So that's about 3000 eso+ subscriptions to hire someone who may make things worse, cause you don't know what you're getting most of the time.

And wages might be even higher because companies like Google and Microsoft like to hire the best before they become competition.

I know 13 game programmers on a personal level. 2 of them work for microsoft and siemens, Not a single one of them makes over 75k excluding bonus/incentives. If a programmer is making over 100k or the "300k theory" that person is doing more than programming.
There are many good programmers in the video game industry. Wether they be a full time employee or a sub contracter. The problem is not a lack of "good programmers", its whats inside the game that is the root of the problems we experience. I.E. Champion point system, inactive pllayers that are causing data storage issues, etc etc...

Server upgrade would help tremendously.

Well, then you know nothing random forum poster!

Since it has been publically stated all the server issues experienced by EUPC are SOFTWARE based and the bluescreen issue was an unexpected memory leak.

No amount of hardware improvements will fix a software flaw.

Also, there is a difference in what you code. Game developers tend to make a premium bonus wise due to the crunch. It depends on what state/country you are in as well. The actual problem with any 5-year-old piece of constantly updated piece of software is spaghetti and the fact that there will be entire areas of the software that no one remotely remembers let alone understands that somehow WILL impact all your new additions. A "Good" programer is often the guy who can force two entirely different elements to work together with duct tape and prayers. "Bad" programmers are ones that can only scrap and restart every single project.

Hahahahaha, another random forum poster with a preconceived notion. Saying zos needs better programmers is like the - E$OH needs a new engine argument. This is willfull ignorance.

Your reading comprehension seems to be lacking, nowhere in my response did i say there are no software issues. Infact i did say "Server upgrade would help tremendously"... This has a direct correlation with how a server behaves on the formatted platform it is on- software/server side software.

Zos admitted other problems you seem to be deliberately forgetting.

Zer0oo · December 2019

Have you looked in the crown store for devs?

Also did you make sure you have a hdmi 2.0 cable?

nafensoriel · December 2019

KillsAllElves wrote: »

show previous quotes

nafensoriel wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

synesthesia wrote: »

siddique wrote: »

Please, you need more people to work and fix this. Two maintenances later, I bluescreened four times yesterday. Once while standing in my house, three times in vSS.

Good programmers are few and far between, and you're probably looking at $300,000 a year for someone who knows what they're doing. So that's about 3000 eso+ subscriptions to hire someone who may make things worse, cause you don't know what you're getting most of the time.

And wages might be even higher because companies like Google and Microsoft like to hire the best before they become competition.

I know 13 game programmers on a personal level. 2 of them work for microsoft and siemens, Not a single one of them makes over 75k excluding bonus/incentives. If a programmer is making over 100k or the "300k theory" that person is doing more than programming.
There are many good programmers in the video game industry. Wether they be a full time employee or a sub contracter. The problem is not a lack of "good programmers", its whats inside the game that is the root of the problems we experience. I.E. Champion point system, inactive pllayers that are causing data storage issues, etc etc...

Server upgrade would help tremendously.

Well, then you know nothing random forum poster!

Since it has been publically stated all the server issues experienced by EUPC are SOFTWARE based and the bluescreen issue was an unexpected memory leak.

No amount of hardware improvements will fix a software flaw.

Also, there is a difference in what you code. Game developers tend to make a premium bonus wise due to the crunch. It depends on what state/country you are in as well. The actual problem with any 5-year-old piece of constantly updated piece of software is spaghetti and the fact that there will be entire areas of the software that no one remotely remembers let alone understands that somehow WILL impact all your new additions. A "Good" programer is often the guy who can force two entirely different elements to work together with duct tape and prayers. "Bad" programmers are ones that can only scrap and restart every single project.

Hahahahaha, another random forum poster with a preconceived notion. Saying zos needs better programmers is like the - E$OH needs a new engine argument. This is willfull ignorance.

Your reading comprehension seems to be lacking, nowhere in my response did i say there are no software issues. Infact i did say "Server upgrade would help tremendously"... This has a direct correlation with how a server behaves on the formatted platform it is on- software/server side software.

Zos admitted other problems you seem to be deliberately forgetting.

Did I say ZOS needs better programmers? /checking Nope.
Actually I usually champion them as one of the better teams out there for design. Sure they have spaghetti to work with now but they do a pretty decent job with that spaghetti.

For the sake of politeness, I will assume you are not one of the many random people who get all their technical knowledge from youtube and assume your statements at face value. When the average forum user says "server upgrades" the only thing they have the technical passing understanding about is hardware.
Generally, since the software has already been changed(activity finder) upgrades are no longer required as it has been upgraded. Cramming your new code into old spaghetti and finding all the loose noodles is more bug correction.

ZOS has admitted and not admitted many things in the long road from alpha. In this case, though it's pretty safe to assume they are just having fun rewriting old crap and we are all along for the ride.

xxthir13enxx · December 2019

Zer0oo wrote: »

Have you looked in the crown store for devs?

Also did you make sure you have a hdmi 2.0 cable?

Yes I did and I also made sure that my Router is positioned higher than both my PS4 and PC so that my data will be travelling downhill thus picking up speed to be faster

siddique · December 2019

Zer0oo wrote: »

Have you looked in the crown store for devs?

Also did you make sure you have a hdmi 2.0 cable?

I have that cable. I don't know how that's supposed to help memory leaks though.

KillsAllElves · December 2019

nafensoriel wrote: »

show previous quotes

KillsAllElves wrote: »

nafensoriel wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

synesthesia wrote: »

siddique wrote: »

Please, you need more people to work and fix this. Two maintenances later, I bluescreened four times yesterday. Once while standing in my house, three times in vSS.

Good programmers are few and far between, and you're probably looking at $300,000 a year for someone who knows what they're doing. So that's about 3000 eso+ subscriptions to hire someone who may make things worse, cause you don't know what you're getting most of the time.

And wages might be even higher because companies like Google and Microsoft like to hire the best before they become competition.

I know 13 game programmers on a personal level. 2 of them work for microsoft and siemens, Not a single one of them makes over 75k excluding bonus/incentives. If a programmer is making over 100k or the "300k theory" that person is doing more than programming.
There are many good programmers in the video game industry. Wether they be a full time employee or a sub contracter. The problem is not a lack of "good programmers", its whats inside the game that is the root of the problems we experience. I.E. Champion point system, inactive pllayers that are causing data storage issues, etc etc...

Server upgrade would help tremendously.

Well, then you know nothing random forum poster!

Since it has been publically stated all the server issues experienced by EUPC are SOFTWARE based and the bluescreen issue was an unexpected memory leak.

No amount of hardware improvements will fix a software flaw.

Also, there is a difference in what you code. Game developers tend to make a premium bonus wise due to the crunch. It depends on what state/country you are in as well. The actual problem with any 5-year-old piece of constantly updated piece of software is spaghetti and the fact that there will be entire areas of the software that no one remotely remembers let alone understands that somehow WILL impact all your new additions. A "Good" programer is often the guy who can force two entirely different elements to work together with duct tape and prayers. "Bad" programmers are ones that can only scrap and restart every single project.

Hahahahaha, another random forum poster with a preconceived notion. Saying zos needs better programmers is like the - E$OH needs a new engine argument. This is willfull ignorance.

Your reading comprehension seems to be lacking, nowhere in my response did i say there are no software issues. Infact i did say "Server upgrade would help tremendously"... This has a direct correlation with how a server behaves on the formatted platform it is on- software/server side software.

Zos admitted other problems you seem to be deliberately forgetting.

Did I say ZOS needs better programmers? /checking Nope.
Actually I usually champion them as one of the better teams out there for design. Sure they have spaghetti to work with now but they do a pretty decent job with that spaghetti.

For the sake of politeness, I will assume you are not one of the many random people who get all their technical knowledge from youtube and assume your statements at face value. When the average forum user says "server upgrades" the only thing they have the technical passing understanding about is hardware.
Generally, since the software has already been changed(activity finder) upgrades are no longer required as it has been upgraded. Cramming your new code into old spaghetti and finding all the loose noodles is more bug correction.

ZOS has admitted and not admitted many things in the long road from alpha. In this case, though it's pretty safe to assume they are just having fun rewriting old crap and we are all along for the ride.

I noticed youre full of assumptions, you put more effort into insulting me and coming up with ridiculous claims.

Perhaps reread what my first response stated instead of asserting assumptions and bogus claims. Your reading comprehension is lacking, .Youre arguing for the sake of arguing.

khajiitNPC · December 2019

@jircris11 console Xbox one X NA here, I don’t have any issues that the first gen console users have, even in a pop locked campaign everything runs pretty smoothly with the occasional frame rate drop — so idk. I know problems definitely exist for EU and first gen consoles tho. I just want to point out not all console players are experiencing what others are.

Also I wonder if their network (who’s on it and how much stuff is running on it) effects what they are doing. I know a friend of mine, he didn’t have exceptionally awesome internet, if his wife and kids were on Netflix or something like that while he was playing, he’d typically crash — but once he switched to an SSD moved into the city and wired in directly, even with a first gen console he was still able to play for the most part in heavily congested areas.