The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
Is this really what we call balance?
I think that maybe in the future if u could go back to how it was when you had multiple sets to choose from and different playing styles and could still achieve the high dps numbers that made the game more well rounded... not to offend because I love this game and played since console launch but having a raid with 8 stamina necromancers because nothing else can even compare just doesn't seem fun to me I mean I like the stamcro but isn't the point to have a variety and take advantage of each classes buffs.. would really like some input on this please! And thanks so much zos for another year of an awesome game
3
-
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There always was and will always be a meta. Its also true that you can still get high enough DPS to accomplish the content without needing to follow the meta - maybe not achievement/score runs, but you can complete the content.1 -
Heatnix90✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's almost as if ZOS made stamina necromancers too strong just so they could sell copies of Elsweyr, because dragon nostalgia was going to wear out almost immediately.
Hmmm...8 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Unparagoned1994 wrote: »I think that maybe in the future if u could go back to how it was when you had multiple sets to choose from and different playing styles and could still achieve the high dps numbers that made the game more well rounded... not to offend because I love this game and played since console launch but having a raid with 8 stamina necromancers because nothing else can even compare just doesn't seem fun to me I mean I like the stamcro but isn't the point to have a variety and take advantage of each classes buffs.. would really like some input on this please! And thanks so much zos for another year of an awesome game
I agree it's boring to see creators putting Relequen + set on every stamina build, and Soriora + set on every magicka build. But keep in mind, that's only really a concern for the top 1% meta chasers.
It would be refreshing to see more content creators putting out builds that are different, even if they were slightly less effective. The issue with that is they would be mocked. They'd have hundreds of comments asking "why aren't you using...."
So, it's a double edged sword. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Of course, you can make your own build and to hell with what other people say...as long as you're not completely dead weight and expect others to carry you, coming up with your own thing can be rewarding.3 -
BNOC✭✭✭✭✭... The issue with that is they would be mocked. They'd have hundreds of comments asking "why aren't you using...."
So, it's a double edged sword. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
This is the same reason most other games with endgame have things like tiered gear etc that you work towards, come the end of it, every class has a single build with maybe slight variation based on roles.
It's common procedure to play and aim for the top, especially when it comes to time/score/performance based runs.
But I agree, you don't have to if you're happy to settle for less than the best.vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)0 -
Czekoludek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Unparagoned1994 wrote: »I think that maybe in the future if u could go back to how it was when you had multiple sets to choose from and different playing styles and could still achieve the high dps numbers that made the game more well rounded... not to offend because I love this game and played since console launch but having a raid with 8 stamina necromancers because nothing else can even compare just doesn't seem fun to me I mean I like the stamcro but isn't the point to have a variety and take advantage of each classes buffs.. would really like some input on this please! And thanks so much zos for another year of an awesome game
I agree it's boring to see creators putting Relequen + set on every stamina build, and Soriora + set on every magicka build. But keep in mind, that's only really a concern for the top 1% meta chasers.
It would be refreshing to see more content creators putting out builds that are different, even if they were slightly less effective. The issue with that is they would be mocked. They'd have hundreds of comments asking "why aren't you using...."
So, it's a double edged sword. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Of course, you can make your own build and to hell with what other people say...as long as you're not completely dead weight and expect others to carry you, coming up with your own thing can be rewarding.
Who use Siroria in raid setup? Sustain on magicka is so awful, everyone are almost forced to use false god.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »There always was and will always be a meta. Its also true that you can still get high enough DPS to accomplish the content without needing to follow the meta - maybe not achievement/score runs, but you can complete the content.
Top players with groups doing score runs with top players don’t always do meta. Granted, meta is determined at that level of okay but some guys I’ve run with have used very different builds to get the same and sometimes better results.
So use your own mind. Spend hours testing and tweaking your build and I expect anyone can find a great build that way. Or take the short cut and use meta.1 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's almost as if ZOS made stamina necromancers too strong just so they could sell copies of Elsweyr, because dragon nostalgia was going to wear out almost immediately.
Hmmm...
These are lies.
I totally don't believe the fact they released an ultimate that has Major Vulnerability tacked on, with no CD, Chain able, not a terrible CD on it, AoE on top, and just so happens to be on a good Stam DPS class, as a selling point.
They just...didn't realize people would stack necro's.0 -
Heatnix90✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »There always was and will always be a meta. Its also true that you can still get high enough DPS to accomplish the content without needing to follow the meta - maybe not achievement/score runs, but you can complete the content.
Top players with groups doing score runs with top players don’t always do meta. Granted, meta is determined at that level of okay but some guys I’ve run with have used very different builds to get the same and sometimes better results.
So use your own mind. Spend hours testing and tweaking your build and I expect anyone can find a great build that way. Or take the short cut and use meta.
Name one top end score pushing group that still exists that doesn't use meta comps.
Oh wait you can't, because that's literally the point of meta comps. Can't push scores if you're not fully optimized.0 -
Heatnix90✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's almost as if ZOS made stamina necromancers too strong just so they could sell copies of Elsweyr, because dragon nostalgia was going to wear out almost immediately.
Hmmm...
These are lies.
I totally don't believe the fact they released an ultimate that has Major Vulnerability tacked on, with no CD, Chain able, not a terrible CD on it, AoE on top, and just so happens to be on a good Stam DPS class, as a selling point.
They just...didn't realize people would stack necro's.
Because elite players won't immediately pick up on how overtuned specific things are.
Same thing happened with Morrowind and Warden PvP and with Psijic from Summerset0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There’s meta: most efficient tactics available and then there’s what people are doing. There’s no way 8 Necro dps is meta.Edited by Iskiab on November 30, 2019 3:47PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Czekoludek✭✭✭✭✭
✭There’s meta: most efficient tactics available and then there’s what people are doing. There’s no way 8 Necro dps is meta.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfK438klT7s
Yeah, looks like you are right!
1 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There will never be class balance. There will always be a build that will do x% more than everything else and the "elite" will all run it to push scores.Playing since beta...2 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Czekoludek wrote: »There’s meta: most efficient tactics available and then there’s what people are doing. There’s no way 8 Necro dps is meta.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfK438klT7s
Yeah, looks like you are right!
Well it's kinda out of context since stacking necro ulti like that is no longer possible starting from Dragonhold and lot of skills used there was nerfed also. Not saying 8 stamnecros isnt stong anymore but not as strong as in the presented video so other group compositions can come way closer now then those 2 months ago and possibly even in team of stamnecros having 1-2 DD on different setups with unique supporting buffs can improve group DPS so 8 stamnecros is not a meta anymore. It's possibly still about having as much stamnecros as You can but not 8 of them. Hard to tell what's excatly meta though since there was not many or even none extensive research done by competitive teams during Dragonhold due to general boredom or annoyance this update brought to many people competing in game end content.Edited by Juhasow on December 1, 2019 5:53AM0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Czekoludek wrote: »There’s meta: most efficient tactics available and then there’s what people are doing. There’s no way 8 Necro dps is meta.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfK438klT7s
Yeah, looks like you are right!
Well it's kinda out of context since stacking necro ulti like that is no longer possible starting from Dragonhold and lot of skills used there was nerfed also. Not saying 8 stamnecros isnt stonr anymore but not as strong as in the presented video so other group compositions can come way closer now then those 2 months ago and possibly even in team of stamnecros having 1-2 DD on different setups with unique supporting buffs can improve group DPS.
For sure. People just like simple and copy cat so use 8 Necros. No way guilds who can do theorycrafting would run that setup anymore.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Czekoludek wrote: »There’s meta: most efficient tactics available and then there’s what people are doing. There’s no way 8 Necro dps is meta.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfK438klT7s
Yeah, looks like you are right!
Well it's kinda out of context since stacking necro ulti like that is no longer possible starting from Dragonhold and lot of skills used there was nerfed also. Not saying 8 stamnecros isnt stonr anymore but not as strong as in the presented video so other group compositions can come way closer now then those 2 months ago and possibly even in team of stamnecros having 1-2 DD on different setups with unique supporting buffs can improve group DPS.
For sure. People just like simple and copy cat so use 8 Necros. No way guilds who can do theorycrafting would run that setup anymore.
Problem is there is not much guilds that can do therycrafting actualy doing theorycrafting. For example MC (mechanically challenged) still had 8 necros in their team in their last log (which was like 3 weeks ago) but 1 of the necros was a healer and there was 1 stamplar DD. So not 8 stamnecros but still 8 necros. It's still really hard to get rid of the necros from the team because their ulti is simply too strong to loose it and even with a cooldown on major vulnerability it's still pretty beneficial to have lot of necros because due to mechanics in certain trials You're not always hitting the same target over and over during boss fights or trash fights so even when cooldown is on 1 enemy cooldown can be used on another and make nuking that enemy possible. Stamnecros are also one of the strongest DDs on their own even without collosus ultimate.Edited by Juhasow on December 1, 2019 6:03AM0 -
KillsAllElves✭✭✭✭✭Players will always choos a specific class every update, Players will choose a specific set to utilize every update.
If 8 players choose to play to a fake "necromancer" they should be able to. Asking for something to be done so there will be more classes in a group is alot like calling for a class nerf.0 -
Czekoludek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Czekoludek wrote: »There’s meta: most efficient tactics available and then there’s what people are doing. There’s no way 8 Necro dps is meta.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfK438klT7s
Yeah, looks like you are right!
Well it's kinda out of context since stacking necro ulti like that is no longer possible starting from Dragonhold and lot of skills used there was nerfed also. Not saying 8 stamnecros isnt stonr anymore but not as strong as in the presented video so other group compositions can come way closer now then those 2 months ago and possibly even in team of stamnecros having 1-2 DD on different setups with unique supporting buffs can improve group DPS.
For sure. People just like simple and copy cat so use 8 Necros. No way guilds who can do theorycrafting would run that setup anymore.
Problem is there is not much guilds that can do therycrafting actualy doing theorycrafting. For example MC (mechanically challenged) still had 8 necros in their team in their last log (which was like 3 weeks ago) but 1 of the necros was a healer and there was 1 stamplar DD. So not 8 stamnecros but still 8 necros. It's still really hard to get rid of the necros from the team because their ulti is simply too strong to loose it and even with a cooldown on major vulnerability it's still pretty beneficial to have lot of necros because due to mechanics in certain trials You're not always hitting the same target over and over during boss fights or trash fights so even when cooldown is on 1 enemy cooldown can be used on another and make nuking that enemy possible. Stamnecros are also one of the strongest DDs on their own even without collosus ultimate.
Problem with stamina team is like necros, even without using their ult, still are the best dps in the game. So best utility and best damage all in one class. For group you need one blade tank, one warden healer, one templar with potl, one dk who will cast stonefist, rest can be necros all day long. So if you can have helaer templar who will cast potl, you truły need 7 necros, one stamdk dps and that is a good group composition and class variety according to ZoS.0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Czekoludek wrote: »Czekoludek wrote: »There’s meta: most efficient tactics available and then there’s what people are doing. There’s no way 8 Necro dps is meta.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfK438klT7s
Yeah, looks like you are right!
Well it's kinda out of context since stacking necro ulti like that is no longer possible starting from Dragonhold and lot of skills used there was nerfed also. Not saying 8 stamnecros isnt stonr anymore but not as strong as in the presented video so other group compositions can come way closer now then those 2 months ago and possibly even in team of stamnecros having 1-2 DD on different setups with unique supporting buffs can improve group DPS.
For sure. People just like simple and copy cat so use 8 Necros. No way guilds who can do theorycrafting would run that setup anymore.
Problem is there is not much guilds that can do therycrafting actualy doing theorycrafting. For example MC (mechanically challenged) still had 8 necros in their team in their last log (which was like 3 weeks ago) but 1 of the necros was a healer and there was 1 stamplar DD. So not 8 stamnecros but still 8 necros. It's still really hard to get rid of the necros from the team because their ulti is simply too strong to loose it and even with a cooldown on major vulnerability it's still pretty beneficial to have lot of necros because due to mechanics in certain trials You're not always hitting the same target over and over during boss fights or trash fights so even when cooldown is on 1 enemy cooldown can be used on another and make nuking that enemy possible. Stamnecros are also one of the strongest DDs on their own even without collosus ultimate.
Problem with stamina team is like necros, even without using their ult, still are the best dps in the game. So best utility and best damage all in one class. For group you need one blade tank, one warden healer, one templar with potl, one dk who will cast stonefist, rest can be necros all day long. So if you can have helaer templar who will cast potl, you truły need 7 necros, one stamdk dps and that is a good group composition and class variety according to ZoS.
I think it’ll stay this way as long as passives remain as is. I’ve seen other games have stronger passives so multiple classes are actually required. The way it’s setup now I guess trials are tanking mag passives and going all stam.
Make it so mag classes have stam passives and stam classes have mag passives and you’ll likely see one of every class mag and Stam.
Right now passives are setup so each class has a stronger version of mag or stam too. NBs - stam, Sorcs - mag, Templars - mag, etc... Doesn’t matter much in pve but it does in pvp.
Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Kolzki✭✭✭✭✭The class minor buff system encourages bringing one and only one of each relevant class. It’s could be adjusted to add a benefit to bring more than one. For example scaling the buffs with each added player of a class with diminishing returns.
Would it improve things? Idk. But at the moment necros are the only class with a strong group benefit to bringing more than one.0 -
0
-
I know there will always be a better class i have played for a long time im just stating that itd be nice to try to make it to where trials are diverse because they all have their individuality with their buffs just like stated before stop over nerfing and over buffing and we may be alright but i do know that the fan base is definitely suffering this patch if i were a manager of the combat team i would be telling them to fix this even before the next patch hits before you lose even more players the longer this patch goes on.. personally i think the scalebreaker patch had it perfect! sorcs could hit 60k on 3/6 mil so could both blades, so could mag plars the only ones that needed just a tiny tiny TINY buff cause lord knows its been one extreme to the other but as i was saying then only ones that may have slightly needed that was mag wardens and stamplars at the time. and i didnt really understand the sustain nerf either. idk who is coming up with these ideas but we'll definitely get more players signed up on here that way everyone can see what EVERYONE thinks about this patch... except that 1 in a million that just wants to be a rebel0
-
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »Players will always choos a specific class every update, Players will choose a specific set to utilize every update.
If 8 players choose to play to a fake "necromancer" they should be able to. Asking for something to be done so there will be more classes in a group is alot like calling for a class nerf.
Imagine having class diversity in PvE raids........
0 -
KillsAllElves wrote: »Players will always choos a specific class every update, Players will choose a specific set to utilize every update.
If 8 players choose to play to a fake "necromancer" they should be able to. Asking for something to be done so there will be more classes in a group is alot like calling for a class nerf.
Imagine having class diversity in PvE raids........
would be nice...0