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Scalecaller Peak Vet - not PUG-able

FishFace16
FishFace16
Soul Shriven
So, I'm not at all suggesting this dungeon is nerfed. I did eventually attempt this dungeon with a group of friends over discord:

Tank: 297
Healer: 950
DD: 270
DD: 202

It was a challenge and we thoroughly enjoyed it. It took us over 3 hours to master the mechanics of each fight and voicechat was invaluable.
Finally completing this and killing the last boss gave us a great sense of achievement.

My concern with this dungeon is that it really can't be completed using the dungeon finder with 4 random people who don't know each other, don't have voicechat and are new to the veteran mode.

I tried the dungeon finder more than 10 times and wasted countless hours just on the first boss. It's common for people to instantly quit the group when they're randomly matched to this dungeon in veteran mode.

Considering how many magika dps sets include the Zaan head piece, it's putting this piece of gear out of reach for many solo players.

I am not a solo player, I am fortunate to have a guild and friends who enjoy persevering through these dungeons.

Whilst most people in my group were able boast that they've completed their gear setups, those of us who needed Zaan have had to wait considerably longer.

My suggestion isn't that the mechanics are nerfed.
I would like the mechanics to be more clear and obvious. Despite explaining all the mechanics to the random groups I've joined, people either don't listen, or their English is too poor and they don't understand.
Visual changes to the fight, directing people to the necessary mechanic at certain stages in the fight. Allowing them to figure out what must be done after a few deaths at each boss. I've seen groups of 1000+ CP players wipe over and over at just the first boss in this dungeon.

They either ignore players who try to teach them, or they don't understand what is being said.
  • FishFace16
    FishFace16
    Soul Shriven
    Sorry, the DD of 270 should have said 370
  • El_Borracho
    El_Borracho
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    Voice chat definitely helps here. But have done it a few times with pugs without ears, with the HUGE caveat that everyone knew the mechanics and we did the "stand close to the statues" route.

    But you are right. Without voice chat, its extremely hard to describe the mechanics for someone who has never done it before.
  • DraconicFalcon
    A lot of Scalecaller's mechanics are actually clear enough. Hell the game even calls out what mechanic is happening what you need to do to avoid them for the first boss. The ice ball and and the ice pillars? The NPC Jorvuld will actually call them out, same goes for the tremor and the icicles. And if you happened to be targeted by a certain mechanic, the game will actually display a message to inform you of that (this is not part of an addon, it's built into the dungeon).

    The gargoyle boss pretty much shows well enough what you need to do to deal with the stone orbs. And for the Matriach and the Plague Doctor boss, the dungeon actually shows you the mechanic just before the boss fight.
    Edited by DraconicFalcon on November 27, 2019 1:29AM
  • FishFace16
    FishFace16
    Soul Shriven
    I agree with you, but somehow, 95% of the people joining from the group finder, lack the necessary brain power or life skills to understand this.
  • FishFace16
    FishFace16
    Soul Shriven
    My suggestion is not because I believe these people are entitled to such a dumbed down explanation of the mechanics.

    My suggestion is because this dungeon in veteran mode is almost impossible to complete using a random group from the dungeon finder. In my experience, people never complete this in random groups, people abandon their groups before even killing the first mob.

    I completely agree with you, the fights and the mechanics contain everything you need to understand the tactics and complete the fight.
    What still stands however, is that a huge majority of the community cannot complete this dungeon when pugging. They entirely ignore and fail to grasp the mechanics. Unfortunately, these ignorant, brain dead halfwits, are what make up the player base and whilst I don't agree with making things easier for these people, this dungeon in vet mode is pretty much off-limits to pug groups.

    I do not want the mechanics nerfing, I enjoy a difficult fight. I want something putting in place to give these walking liabilities, the benefit of the doubt.
  • Sparr0w
    Sparr0w
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    I mean... it's soloable ;)
    @Sparr0w so I get the notification
    Xbox (EU) - l Sparrow x | CP 810+
    DD: All Mag + Stam
    Heal: Templar | Sorc | NB | Warden | Necro
    Tank: NB | DK | Warden
    Completions: All HM's + Immortal Redeemer + Gryphon Heart
    PC (EU) - Sparrowo | CP 810+
    DD: All Mag + Stam
    Heal: Templar | Sorc
    Tank: DK
    Completions: Crag HM's, MOL, HOF, AS HM
  • DraconicFalcon
    Then those people you group up with clearly needs to l2p. I know this sounds harsh and toxic, but it is how it is. The dungeon itself already directly tells you the mechanics clear as day, and if players miss all those prompts and alerts the dungeon provides, then it's on them.

    Also, vet Scalecaller PUGs in my experience usually are not too bad (I can't speak for you of course) except for the few who can't even DPS or the highly inexperienced character who never done a dungeon before that decides to jump into the dungeon of high difficulty straight away.

    But the thing is, I know you want the mechanics to be more clear and obvious, but the dungeon itself already tells you the mechanics and tells you what to do with them. Dialogue keeps getting called out, message prompts appear. I am not sure how can the mechs be even clearer than they already are.
    Edited by DraconicFalcon on December 2, 2019 3:04AM
  • paulychan
    paulychan
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    My first vscp clear was a pug. Nobody was 810
  • Asardes
    Asardes
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    I recently PuG-ed that dungeon, ended up with a CP750 "DD" that was just spamming light attacks, warned him 2 times about using at least a simple rotation, he kept spamming light attacks, kicked him without batting an eye. Got some people from my trade guilds, we did it quite easily. CP is not that important really, as long as people know their build well, try to do a rotation, do the mechanics. I wouldn't recommend going there under CP300 though. Usually when I queue as healer and the group DPS is weak, I switch to my DPS build and keep just 1-2 heals on.
    Beta tester since February 2014, playing ESO-TU since October 2015
    vMA | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1
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    Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 18 |
    Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 18 |
    Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 18 |
    Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 15 |
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    Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 15 |
    Claudius Tharn | 50 Necromancer | DC AR 7 |

    Nazura-la the Bonedancer | 50 Necromancer | AD AR 4 |
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  • Davadin
    Davadin
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    FishFace16 wrote: »
    I agree with you, but somehow, 95% of the people joining from the group finder, lack the necessary brain power or life skills to understand this.

    then they should not be able to complete it, obviously.


    i dont see the problem?
    Praetorian Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Kaalgrontiid
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvP : Heavy SnB/2H The Ravenous
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvP : Medium SnB/2H The Plague Bringer
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
  • Nestor
    Nestor
    Community Ambassador
    DLC Vet Dungeons are always considered to be unpuggable when they first release. After a while time or familiarity makes them doable as most of the PUG has experience with the content. If they were doable by A PUG the first time through, that would not be much of a challenge.

    We have enough easy content in the game (which I like btw), but we need stuff that makes us work out the solution and do a little knuckle sweating.
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

  • Alienoutlaw
    Alienoutlaw
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    totally Pug=able
    Better to be hated for who you are than loved for who they want you to be
    AD Mag-sorc
    AD Magplar
    AD Stamden
    AD StamDK
    AD Stamblade
  • Asardes
    Asardes
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    I just PUG-ed vBF HM last evening on my Mag Warden. First I queued as healer, no pop for 15 minutes, then grabbed my universal tanking gear (Ebon+Torug+Earthgore) from the bank and queued as tank. Almost instant pop. The first group I got was dismal, 30K group DPS, with full CP810 players. We got to the Hagraven boss, but they couldn't even kill the stranglers so we wiped 3-4 times. I told them to concentrate, but they were clearly bad. When you see someone using Acid Spray as spammable in PvE it's a clear sign they have no clue. I just left that group, waited a bit more, and queued again. Got 3 DDs that were quite good, and we reached the last boss fast, with no wipes, we had 5-6 wipes on HM but got it done in the end. My 10th Forge Breaker. I hope I get lucky tonight with vFH. I expect do the HMs on the first 6 DLC dungeons on all characters. The rest are optional on alts.
    Beta tester since February 2014, playing ESO-TU since October 2015
    vMA | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1
    EU PC CP 2000+
    Member of:
    Pact Veteran Trade: Exemplary
    The Alchemist's Emporium: Friend
    Handelsgilde: Elite
    Divine Deals: Friend


    Characters:
    Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 34 | Master Crafter: all traits, styles & recipes
    Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 18 |
    Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 18 |
    Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 18 |
    Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 18 |
    Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 18 |
    Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 18 |
    Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 15 |
    Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 15 |
    Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 15 |
    Claudius Tharn | 50 Necromancer | DC AR 7 |

    Nazura-la the Bonedancer | 50 Necromancer | AD AR 4 |
    Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
    Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 3 |
    Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 3 |
    Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 3 |
    Milariel | 50 Wood Elf Warden | AD AR 3 |
    Scheei-Jul | 50 Necromancer | EP AR 3 |
  • markusloveFTM
    markusloveFTM
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    Despite my recent post about ruins of Mazzatun being too hard, I did PUG this on vet and got a light divines Zaan and was donated a medium Invigorating zaan, but they’re was a few wipes.

    Wasn’t fun and we definitely didn’t do hard mode.
  • AndyMac
    AndyMac
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    It’s very PUGable - I’ve pugged it many times including needing to step out mechanics - but it totally depends on the group.

    Some players can do what’s required, some just can’t.

    With PUGing vet DLC’s you have to expect some wipes, kicks and, tbh, some total fails.
    Anduiil - Dunmer mDK - EP
  • TheUndeadAmulet
    TheUndeadAmulet
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    PUGable dungeon for sure, I've done it as a tank and dps. It can take a while bu it's not impossible.
    XBOX NA - 810 CP
    Nerf Loading Screens
    Ready your MagDK's, it's vampire hunting season
  • Valykc
    Valykc
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    The best was watching the ZOS team run this.. that was the funniest livestream I ever watched
  • Kurat
    Kurat
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    Every dungeon is pugable.
  • Dubsky
    Dubsky
    Soul Shriven
    vSCP is a joke in my opinion. I've pugged it with HM so many times that I find it hard to believe people still have trouble with it.
  • CrashTest
    CrashTest
    I don't think that would help because so many players don't care especially in pugs. ZOS could put a giant neon sign and pointing arrow that says, "Stand here!" and that will be the one place where they won't stand.

    You can see this in action now in fights where you have to just stand still, but people will yolo run all over the place even after multiple wipes and repeatedly telling them to stand still.
  • TelvanniWizard
    TelvanniWizard
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    I completed it with a pug and no voice chat.
    Si hoc imprimis intellegis, nolli dubitare, scribe me ad latine loquendum. Lingua est colenda.

    PAWS - Say NO to crown crates!

  • BeamsForDemacia
    BeamsForDemacia
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    ofc the dung is pugable but it depends like all (dlc) Dungeons on the Group, if everyone knows it scp is one of the super easy one s where u can nuke so much, if only tank and 1 dds know what to do ok u can still do it if he has some dps but with 3 inexperienced ppl gonna be hard, and i wouldnt want to do that,
    IR/GH/TTT/GS [MEDUSA]
  • Stevie6
    Stevie6
    CrashTest wrote: »
    I don't think that would help because so many players don't care especially in pugs. ZOS could put a giant neon sign and pointing arrow that says, "Stand here!" and that will be the one place where they won't stand.

    You can see this in action now in fights where you have to just stand still, but people will yolo run all over the place even after multiple wipes and repeatedly telling them to stand still.

    Heh maybe a visually worded sign/or in game detailed explanation should be given. Personally, I have a problem with red, green, and black. The learning curve is a bit rough but doable given a lot of time. Most people I’m with leave the pug and just left standing alone in vscp.

    I have an idea for the devs. Have a visual clue placed on the weapon bars. “Bar swap” flashing box or some indicator to hit a certain spell or an advised spell to be slotted ect. Vast majority of players are below 20k dps and will never hit optimal sustained dps. Should the devs have an dps academy for each class to train players on weaving? I never knew about weaving for about a year into the game. Most casual players just smash buttons hopping for 30k dps and going wtf only 5k. So in the end, doing vet dungeons in a pug is going to be really bad. I can see where a lot of people want soloable vet dungeons.

  • Reverb
    Reverb
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    I’ve pugged it several times, including HM once. All without voicecomms.
    Armitas wrote: »
    This game is so broken I don't even know how people distinguish CE from negligent development.
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