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The most annoying class and skill
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technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »If you’re dying just from someone unloading their spammable into you then you are:
1) Applying zero pressure to force them onto the defensive
And 2) Dying to a low-damage rotation
Classic L2P problem.
Jabs has more tooltip dmg value than procced crystal fragments though on a mirror setup (when assuming 1 burning light procc per cast).
If you don´t have access to major evasion it´s one of the highest dmging abilities you can get hit with.
No it doesn’t. Frag and jabs are about the same.
In a 100% mirrored setup:
Frag tooltip: 13319 which means 17714 procced - even on full hp 10% amplitude (which is hard to get) thats 19485 tooltip
Jabs tooltip (with one burning light procc): 3850 * 4 = 15400 + 5947 burning light = 21347 tooltip
This means jabs does about 9% more tooltip dmg on a mirror setup than the best case scenario frag (dmg drops for frag not for jabs).
In my world a minimum of 9% difference in favor of jabs is not about the same.
1 is at range, the other isnt, and outside of 1v1, very little control each jab will hit the same target with full damage rather than secondary damage. There are trade offs.
Sorry, but you are comparing dodgeable single target proc to AOE spammable with ton of additional effects.... about "dodging" jabs, dodge costs more then jabs and then templar just topple charges at you while you are still on dodge cooldown.. best and only thing you can do about jabs is cc/dps templar to put him on defensive... or run major evasion AND tanky build boring AF. If you are simply tanky or simply run major evasion that is not enough against properly build templar.
Jabs are like dizzy&enthropy in U23, if every second character you meet spams the same ability, something is probable wrong with power balance of this ability... and worst thing if ZOS will nerf all other templar's features because of one broken tool like it already happened to nightblade because of cloak.
I wasnt comparing it. They were. And you can spam frags if you want to. The proc is just for instant cast and damage. Probably would go blast and it would have a similar cast to jabs/sweeps channel and it would stun.
Are you saying frags/blast is more expensive than dodge roll while jabs/sweeps isnt? I'm confused as you mentioned dodge as a counter to frags/blast and not sweeps/jags. You adding toppling charge which can also be dodged and blocked or the templar even CCed then ignores streak which cannot be or blocked.
At any rate. Derra brought numbers at least. You brought hyperbole. if we look at hyperbole; what's going to happen to that templar that runs that same sorc build to have numbers that high when the go toppling in? They'll be CCed and blown up as they'd be running a ranged damage build into melee.1 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »If you’re dying just from someone unloading their spammable into you then you are:
1) Applying zero pressure to force them onto the defensive
And 2) Dying to a low-damage rotation
Classic L2P problem.
Jabs has more tooltip dmg value than procced crystal fragments though on a mirror setup (when assuming 1 burning light procc per cast).
If you don´t have access to major evasion it´s one of the highest dmging abilities you can get hit with.
No it doesn’t. Frag and jabs are about the same.
In a 100% mirrored setup:
Frag tooltip: 13319 which means 17714 procced - even on full hp 10% amplitude (which is hard to get) thats 19485 tooltip
Jabs tooltip (with one burning light procc): 3850 * 4 = 15400 + 5947 burning light = 21347 tooltip
This means jabs does about 9% more tooltip dmg on a mirror setup than the best case scenario frag (dmg drops for frag not for jabs).
In my world a minimum of 9% difference in favor of jabs is not about the same.
1 is at range, the other isnt, and outside of 1v1, very little control each jab will hit the same target with full damage rather than secondary damage. There are trade offs.
Sorry, but you are comparing dodgeable single target proc to AOE spammable with ton of additional effects.... about "dodging" jabs, dodge costs more then jabs and then templar just topple charges at you while you are still on dodge cooldown.. best and only thing you can do about jabs is cc/dps templar to put him on defensive... or run major evasion AND tanky build boring AF. If you are simply tanky or simply run major evasion that is not enough against properly build templar.
Jabs are like dizzy&enthropy in U23, if every second character you meet spams the same ability, something is probable wrong with power balance of this ability... and worst thing if ZOS will nerf all other templar's features because of one broken tool like it already happened to nightblade because of cloak.
I wasnt comparing it. They were. And you can spam frags if you want to. The proc is just for instant cast and damage. Probably would go blast and it would have a similar cast to jabs/sweeps channel and it would stun.
Are you saying frags/blast is more expensive than dodge roll while jabs/sweeps isnt? I'm confused as you mentioned dodge as a counter to frags/blast and not sweeps/jags. You adding toppling charge which can also be dodged and blocked or the templar even CCed then ignores streak which cannot be or blocked.
At any rate. Derra brought numbers at least. You brought hyperbole. if we look at hyperbole; what's going to happen to that templar that runs that same sorc build to have numbers that high when the go toppling in? They'll be CCed and blown up as they'd be running a ranged damage build into melee.
In all fairness, they're both absurdly easy to use & powerful skills. From my point of view [I main a magblade:(] arguing about which one is more absurdly easy to use & powerful kinda like complaining about 1st world problems.😉Edited by Langeston on December 1, 2019 6:39AM1 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »If you’re dying just from someone unloading their spammable into you then you are:
1) Applying zero pressure to force them onto the defensive
And 2) Dying to a low-damage rotation
Classic L2P problem.
Jabs has more tooltip dmg value than procced crystal fragments though on a mirror setup (when assuming 1 burning light procc per cast).
If you don´t have access to major evasion it´s one of the highest dmging abilities you can get hit with.
No it doesn’t. Frag and jabs are about the same.
In a 100% mirrored setup:
Frag tooltip: 13319 which means 17714 procced - even on full hp 10% amplitude (which is hard to get) thats 19485 tooltip
Jabs tooltip (with one burning light procc): 3850 * 4 = 15400 + 5947 burning light = 21347 tooltip
This means jabs does about 9% more tooltip dmg on a mirror setup than the best case scenario frag (dmg drops for frag not for jabs).
In my world a minimum of 9% difference in favor of jabs is not about the same.
1 is at range, the other isnt, and outside of 1v1, very little control each jab will hit the same target with full damage rather than secondary damage. There are trade offs.
Sorry, but you are comparing dodgeable single target proc to AOE spammable with ton of additional effects.... about "dodging" jabs, dodge costs more then jabs and then templar just topple charges at you while you are still on dodge cooldown.. best and only thing you can do about jabs is cc/dps templar to put him on defensive... or run major evasion AND tanky build boring AF. If you are simply tanky or simply run major evasion that is not enough against properly build templar.
Jabs are like dizzy&enthropy in U23, if every second character you meet spams the same ability, something is probable wrong with power balance of this ability... and worst thing if ZOS will nerf all other templar's features because of one broken tool like it already happened to nightblade because of cloak.
I wasnt comparing it. They were. And you can spam frags if you want to. The proc is just for instant cast and damage. Probably would go blast and it would have a similar cast to jabs/sweeps channel and it would stun.
Are you saying frags/blast is more expensive than dodge roll while jabs/sweeps isnt? I'm confused as you mentioned dodge as a counter to frags/blast and not sweeps/jags. You adding toppling charge which can also be dodged and blocked or the templar even CCed then ignores streak which cannot be or blocked.
At any rate. Derra brought numbers at least. You brought hyperbole. if we look at hyperbole; what's going to happen to that templar that runs that same sorc build to have numbers that high when the go toppling in? They'll be CCed and blown up as they'd be running a ranged damage build into melee.
In all fairness, they're both absurdly easy to use & powerful skills. From my point of view [I main a magblade:(] arguing about which one is more absurdly easy to use & powerful kinda like complaining about 1st world problems.😉
Magblade has been down for so long, I don't blame you. Even when it was decent a couple years ago before they nerfed cripple and the ranged spammable; the weaving light attacks was clunky. I see people scoffing at Calurion being on the golden but meanwhile think about how that became almost necessary for magnb.1 -
MentalxHammer✭✭✭✭✭
✭The sum base damage of all 4 jab hits = 1.5x the damage of a surprise attack, this is severely overtuned.3 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭From a not really savvy in PvP point of view, I don't mind gankblades and bomblades, because the death is usually instant or really swift, so there's no time to be annoyed
But Dragonknights, with their petrify and whip, leaps and chains... ugh... 
Notable mention to stamsorcs and hurricane, wardens and permafrost, templars and sweeps! 0 -
OG_Kaveman✭✭✭✭✭MentalxHammer wrote: »The sum base damage of all 4 jab hits = 1.5x the damage of a surprise attack, this is severely overtuned.
I mean, if you hit someone with SA, you are guaranteed to be full value but with jabs, it is trivial to roll out of the way and not get hit by half the hits, despite what has been said in this thread.1 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭OG_Kaveman wrote: »MentalxHammer wrote: »The sum base damage of all 4 jab hits = 1.5x the damage of a surprise attack, this is severely overtuned.
I mean, if you hit someone with SA, you are guaranteed to be full value but with jabs, it is trivial to roll out of the way and not get hit by half the hits, despite what has been said in this thread.
If you hit with SA ...
And guess what, if SA gets dodged it doesn't deal any dmg at all. Other spammable skills are even easier to avoid than jabs because unlike jabs they are not undodgeable, uncloakable and with built-in snare.3 -
ThePhantomThorn✭✭✭✭OG_Kaveman wrote: »MentalxHammer wrote: »The sum base damage of all 4 jab hits = 1.5x the damage of a surprise attack, this is severely overtuned.
I mean, if you hit someone with SA, you are guaranteed to be full value but with jabs, it is trivial to roll out of the way and not get hit by half the hits, despite what has been said in this thread.
If you hit with SA ...
And guess what, if SA gets dodged it doesn't deal any dmg at all. Other spammable skills are even easier to avoid than jabs because unlike jabs they are not undodgeable, uncloakable and with built-in snare.
And heals and provides minor protection.
Sweeps is op. Took you all till dragonhold to realise it
2 -
OG_Kaveman✭✭✭✭✭ThePhantomThorn wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »MentalxHammer wrote: »The sum base damage of all 4 jab hits = 1.5x the damage of a surprise attack, this is severely overtuned.
I mean, if you hit someone with SA, you are guaranteed to be full value but with jabs, it is trivial to roll out of the way and not get hit by half the hits, despite what has been said in this thread.
If you hit with SA ...
And guess what, if SA gets dodged it doesn't deal any dmg at all. Other spammable skills are even easier to avoid than jabs because unlike jabs they are not undodgeable, uncloakable and with built-in snare.
And heals and provides minor protection.
Sweeps is op. Took you all till dragonhold to realise it
SA is easier to weave, gives major resolve, lowers your targets resists, gives 3% max health and sets your target off balance if you hit them from sneak. but whatever, we are going circles, all this has been said in the thread already, we dont need to keep going circles, like you ought to be when you come up against a player using jabs, that roots the other player while the channel is going.Edited by OG_Kaveman on December 1, 2019 11:33PM1 -
Trancestor✭✭✭✭✭Streak spamming magsorcs and cloak spamming rollerblades exist and you're complaining about a mediocre spammable.5
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juhislihis19✭✭✭✭Cloak itself is not bad but it's the Nightblades that reset the fight by Cloaking and running away and returning 20 seconds later. It's not like evading detection potion for 10 seconds is hard, especially with Expedition.
Frustrating thing is when they return, the outcome will be the same, unless you idle for few seconds. In this situation - a real cowards tool. Just die and move along! I know I do.2 -
ThePedge✭✭✭✭✭juhislihis19 wrote: »Cloak itself is not bad but it's the Nightblades that reset the fight by Cloaking and running away and returning 20 seconds later. It's not like evading detection potion for 10 seconds is hard, especially with Expedition.
Frustrating thing is when they return, the outcome will be the same, unless you idle for few seconds. In this situation - a real cowards tool. Just die and move along! I know I do.
That's like saying dont use Streak, any Shield Ult, Heal Ult or Purge. Just die and move along!2 -
Nerftheforums✭✭✭✭✭
✭Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »If you’re dying just from someone unloading their spammable into you then you are:
1) Applying zero pressure to force them onto the defensive
And 2) Dying to a low-damage rotation
Classic L2P problem.
Jabs has more tooltip dmg value than procced crystal fragments though on a mirror setup (when assuming 1 burning light procc per cast).
If you don´t have access to major evasion it´s one of the highest dmging abilities you can get hit with.
Stfu, that's not true! My jabs tt get to only 5.2k with continuous, berserker glyph and rally. That's not much considering you have to factor in tactician and burning light too :')1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »If you’re dying just from someone unloading their spammable into you then you are:
1) Applying zero pressure to force them onto the defensive
And 2) Dying to a low-damage rotation
Classic L2P problem.
Jabs has more tooltip dmg value than procced crystal fragments though on a mirror setup (when assuming 1 burning light procc per cast).
If you don´t have access to major evasion it´s one of the highest dmging abilities you can get hit with.
No it doesn’t. Frag and jabs are about the same.
In a 100% mirrored setup:
Frag tooltip: 13319 which means 17714 procced - even on full hp 10% amplitude (which is hard to get) thats 19485 tooltip
Jabs tooltip (with one burning light procc): 3850 * 4 = 15400 + 5947 burning light = 21347 tooltip
This means jabs does about 9% more tooltip dmg on a mirror setup than the best case scenario frag (dmg drops for frag not for jabs).
In my world a minimum of 9% difference in favor of jabs is not about the same.
1 is at range, the other isnt, and outside of 1v1, very little control each jab will hit the same target with full damage rather than secondary damage. There are trade offs.
Sorry, but you are comparing dodgeable single target proc to AOE spammable with ton of additional effects.... about "dodging" jabs, dodge costs more then jabs and then templar just topple charges at you while you are still on dodge cooldown.. best and only thing you can do about jabs is cc/dps templar to put him on defensive... or run major evasion AND tanky build boring AF. If you are simply tanky or simply run major evasion that is not enough against properly build templar.
Jabs are like dizzy&enthropy in U23, if every second character you meet spams the same ability, something is probable wrong with power balance of this ability... and worst thing if ZOS will nerf all other templar's features because of one broken tool like it already happened to nightblade because of cloak.
I wasnt comparing it. They were. And you can spam frags if you want to. The proc is just for instant cast and damage. Probably would go blast and it would have a similar cast to jabs/sweeps channel and it would stun.
Are you saying frags/blast is more expensive than dodge roll while jabs/sweeps isnt? I'm confused as you mentioned dodge as a counter to frags/blast and not sweeps/jags. You adding toppling charge which can also be dodged and blocked or the templar even CCed then ignores streak which cannot be or blocked.
At any rate. Derra brought numbers at least. You brought hyperbole. if we look at hyperbole; what's going to happen to that templar that runs that same sorc build to have numbers that high when the go toppling in? They'll be CCed and blown up as they'd be running a ranged damage build into melee.
Ok, numbers, puncturing vs force shock on same magplar:
So roughly it is 3450*4+5264 vs 2876*3... 19064 vs 8628. Yeah, force shock is ranged and not cast time, but still difference in damage is 220%. Imo ZOS overbuffed cast time abilities at some point... they nerfed dizzy sharply, but forgot about snipe and jabs. Both snipes and jabs have some crazy tooltips right now...
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MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Class: Forum Warrior
Skill: Nerf Thread
Don't nerf jabs, buff all other 10+ spammables (with exception of snipe) lol. See screenshot with tooltips above made from same toon within 2 seconds (gear, buffs, cp all absolutely the same). 220% of difference in damage between spammables is balanced?1 -
WillhelmBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nightblade.
Cloak.
And don't worry OP, there isn't much counter to magplar atm. Their offence is their defence unless they're a block cast Breath of Life spammer.PC EU1 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Class: Forum Warrior
Skill: Nerf Thread
Don't nerf jabs, buff all other 10+ spammables (with exception of snipe) lol. See screenshot with tooltips above made from same toon within 2 seconds (gear, buffs, cp all absolutely the same). 220% of difference in damage between spammables is balanced?
Tbh. That is not for me to judge. I am done with pvp anyway. I stoped playing Cyro in Wrathstone update. And it seems that was the right choice, seing that everything since then became worse & worse. Right now I simply having a good laugh when people argue that this or that is OP, trying to make "their" class / play style unnerfed...
It is a vicius cycle. I have been playing this game since 2014 and was on forums somwhere arround 2015 and I can say this:
Nerfs are very short-term solution. Something gets wrecked by nerfs, people pick something else, then it gets wrecked by nerfs... Repeat, repeat... In long term it only causes problems for everyone, as we slowly have less & less options.Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on December 2, 2019 11:08AM2 -
Ariades_swe✭✭✭✭✭Anything that is a hard matchup against the most popular classes (stamnb and magsorc) tends to get nerfed hard.
When that's done they usually on each others throat for a patch cycle.
I'd say overall magsorcs and stamblades been the most consistently well performing classes in cyrodiil for solo pvp which is the type of pvp that tend to attract most calls for either buffs or nerfs on these forums ( waah waah I got killed by X class).Edited by Ariades_swe on December 3, 2019 8:04AM1 -
juhislihis19✭✭✭✭juhislihis19 wrote: »Cloak itself is not bad but it's the Nightblades that reset the fight by Cloaking and running away and returning 20 seconds later. It's not like evading detection potion for 10 seconds is hard, especially with Expedition.
Frustrating thing is when they return, the outcome will be the same, unless you idle for few seconds. In this situation - a real cowards tool. Just die and move along! I know I do.
That's like saying dont use Streak, any Shield Ult, Heal Ult or Purge. Just die and move along!
Well, not really now is it?
I mean, what's the point of disappearing (and running away) for 3-5 times, just to return again for another ass whooping? Just postponing the inevitable. After almost dying 3-4 times to same person, I guess it's safe to say you're not going to get him. Either die or move along. I know I'm trying to mount and move along against such person.
And Streak is another skill which is used in similar situation.. and it's quite overloaded too. If I had to, I would've named it 2nd most annoying skill. I like to use Streak on my StamSorc though.2 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Snipe. Bow knockback. Bombard.
Hmm... I'm starting to see a pattern.
Edit: Alright, add Reverb bash to the list.Edited by Koensol on December 2, 2019 12:01PM0 -
Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It was funny this BG session for me on Mag Warden when I played against Bow spamming NBs. The arrows were popping right into my Shimmering Shield and activating Bloodspawn, Northern Storm was full in no time, then they tried bursting, got CCd by Arctic Blast into that, ate Deep Fissure and Crushing Shock and got rekt most of the time. Sorcs were annoying though, as I said, luckily I'm a Dark Elf so I have stamina to break free from the stun. I tried Sorc and NB a couple of years back but I found them too easy and boring.Edited by Asardes on December 2, 2019 12:13PMBeta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
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Saltisol✭✭✭✭I'm not interested of nerfing this or buffing that and I have never been into technicalitys concerning certain skills. As a bowblade I die almost to anyone who gets Close. The "only" Thing that can save me is cloak I can fully understand that people find that skill annoying.
What makes jabbing more annoying then any other skill is how it is designed, the constant soundeefect from the jab, jab, jab really gets on my nerves
I'm not on a crusade against a certain class or skill I just find the jabbing very anoying.
I'm sorry I involved the class, I shouldn't have done that because templars are fine it's just the....you know what
Edited by Saltisol on December 2, 2019 1:28PM0 -
ThePedge✭✭✭✭✭juhislihis19 wrote: »juhislihis19 wrote: »Cloak itself is not bad but it's the Nightblades that reset the fight by Cloaking and running away and returning 20 seconds later. It's not like evading detection potion for 10 seconds is hard, especially with Expedition.
Frustrating thing is when they return, the outcome will be the same, unless you idle for few seconds. In this situation - a real cowards tool. Just die and move along! I know I do.
That's like saying dont use Streak, any Shield Ult, Heal Ult or Purge. Just die and move along!
Well, not really now is it?
I mean, what's the point of disappearing (and running away) for 3-5 times, just to return again for another ass whooping? Just postponing the inevitable. After almost dying 3-4 times to same person, I guess it's safe to say you're not going to get him. Either die or move along. I know I'm trying to mount and move along against such person.
And Streak is another skill which is used in similar situation.. and it's quite overloaded too. If I had to, I would've named it 2nd most annoying skill. I like to use Streak on my StamSorc though.
No it's not quite the same, you can't negate a purge or defensive Ult by using any AoE skill, detect potions, or detection skills.0 -
Rahar✭✭✭✭Most annoying class? Templar. Too many overtuned abilities with too many effects and insanely good passives. Fighting even a bad magplar is a chore in this patch. However, I think a lot of class passives on Templar should be a model for balancing other class passives, because they work so well with the skills.
Most annoying ability? Bombard. Easily. The team plays you can pull off with one mouthbreather in the back hitting this on his backbar every 2-3s is actually insane. Throw this mouthbreather on voice with a good situation and coordinated ulti dump and its GGs. I'm not sure what I'd do with this to fix it, but right now it's just a bit too effective (in a team) and pretty much can't miss.NeRf MaGsOrC2 -
ThePhantomThorn✭✭✭✭Nerftheforums wrote: »Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »If you’re dying just from someone unloading their spammable into you then you are:
1) Applying zero pressure to force them onto the defensive
And 2) Dying to a low-damage rotation
Classic L2P problem.
Jabs has more tooltip dmg value than procced crystal fragments though on a mirror setup (when assuming 1 burning light procc per cast).
If you don´t have access to major evasion it´s one of the highest dmging abilities you can get hit with.
Stfu, that's not true! My jabs tt get to only 5.2k with continuous, berserker glyph and rally. That's not much considering you have to factor in tactician and burning light too :')
It hits 4 times...0 -
Salix_alba✭✭✭✭the most annoying class is the chat troll and their spam jibberish or baiting skill followed closely by the farming bot and their harvest anything not nailed down 24/7 skillEdited by Salix_alba on December 2, 2019 11:36PM0
