Remove Cloak's ability to suppress DoTs

Rianai

Am i the only one who prefers fighting cloak (Shadowy Disguise) spamming nb over Dark Cloak "tanks" (or tanky builds on any other class) who can just eat all dmg and heal through it unless you zerg them?

So from my side a big "NO" to those proposing a buff to Dark Cloak to make it more appealing over Shadowy Disguise. We don't need more boring tanks and that's the only thing you get when buffing health scaling heals. Neither does the other morph need nerfs imo.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Mayrael wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Being invisible shouldnt stop damage, should just make you invisible. Remove DoT immunity its stupid and annoying and I‘M sick of seeing weeny gankblades runnings away cos they’re losing.

...so accordingly to your logic AoEs should not break the cloak just deal damage.

Yes

Mayrael

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Being invisible shouldnt stop damage, should just make you invisible. Remove DoT immunity its stupid and annoying and I‘M sick of seeing weeny gankblades runnings away cos they’re losing.

...so accordingly to your logic AoEs should not break the cloak just deal damage.

Yes

Ok Make it happend pls! I will gladly sacrafice DoT suppression for cloak not being broken by AoEs

Commancho

Just ignore cloaking chickens they aren't any threat and if you hate bailing cloaking groups I can share a build which is not only detecting stealth enemies in the snipe range with 100% uptimes but its also very fast and snare nightmare. Ofc its designed for organised groups, but its extremely effective.

Moonsorrow

Best way to counter Cloak imo is if you have played a Cloakblade long enough yourself so you know the realities of it and how they play & move. That is the first step.

All Nightblades who trust on Cloak as defensive are on the squishy side, especially Magblades if you actually want to finish targets other than some total potatos - so have to play illusive with some hots on the side, or play without Cloak and setup to play like a msorc, still.. msorc does it better lol)

Realities are, when i am playing my nightblades i always play & build so that i`ll have to be able to play without Cloak after the initial contact, since all good players will stop it from working - you know you can put different kinds of Potions on your quick wheel/buttons?

So when against a Cloaker you use the Detect potion and when others you use what you normally use. Personally i always have about 3 different kinds of Potions on my characters to be used in different needs. Just put them on your Quick slots - so easy.

That was step 2. Because that can do with any class and setup and thus counter any Cloakblade.

Step 3 is to make the detection with aoe, of course some classes and setups can do it better and so that the skill does not feel "wasted" most other times. It comes down to step 1 and knowing how they move and knowing where to go and activate that skill and voila - there they are and revealed, proceed to kill! Or rinse and repeat and until done.

Stamsorc should not have problems with Cloakblades. Seriously. When on my Stamsorc, Cloakers are crying & dying - fast.

On my Stamden - well personally since i know there are Cloakers around (yes i keep Detect pots too), often will just be lazy and use Steelnado to take them out. I play most my Stamdens with DW on the other bar anyways, so having the good old Harvester of Sorrow made of Steel on bar is beneficial against Cloakers and for me goes nicely with Sub Assault if needs to knock some groups of hostile people at inner keeps and so on.

Stamden has many ways to deal with nightblades anyways, so if you wanna play 2h/SnB - you can, Detect Pots OR with other skills that are not a wasted slot, but will secure kills and do some group support on the side if playing with other peeps.

Don`t use Expert Hunter to Detect stuff, it is not good for that. 99% of times it`s just wasted stamina. Other options are very much available to everyone willing to use them and they work. And they work so good, as said, that against any good opponents when playing my nb i have to play without Cloak after contact.

Cirantille

Why so much bashing over cloak?
It is a representetive class ability and every class has a different playstyle.
These guys are meant to be sneaky fellows who assasinate you from the shadows.
Strength =/= *roar* slash two handed weapon *roar*
Not every class meant to go toe to toe with you.

It is annoying, yes, but you can not take away such core thing from a class.
Carry detect pots, problem solved.

Disclaimer: Sorc main

Mayrael

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Best way to counter Cloak imo is if you have played a Cloakblade long enough yourself so you know the realities of it and how they play & move. That is the first step.

All Nightblades who trust on Cloak as defensive are on the squishy side, especially Magblades if you actually want to finish targets other than some total potatos - so have to play illusive with some hots on the side, or play without Cloak and setup to play like a msorc, still.. msorc does it better lol)

Realities are, when i am playing my nightblades i always play & build so that i`ll have to be able to play without Cloak after the initial contact, since all good players will stop it from working - you know you can put different kinds of Potions on your quick wheel/buttons?

So when against a Cloaker you use the Detect potion and when others you use what you normally use. Personally i always have about 3 different kinds of Potions on my characters to be used in different needs. Just put them on your Quick slots - so easy.

That was step 2. Because that can do with any class and setup and thus counter any Cloakblade.

Step 3 is to make the detection with aoe, of course some classes and setups can do it better and so that the skill does not feel "wasted" most other times. It comes down to step 1 and knowing how they move and knowing where to go and activate that skill and voila - there they are and revealed, proceed to kill! Or rinse and repeat and until done.

Stamsorc should not have problems with Cloakblades. Seriously. When on my Stamsorc, Cloakers are crying & dying - fast.

On my Stamden - well personally since i know there are Cloakers around (yes i keep Detect pots too), often will just be lazy and use Steelnado to take them out. I play most my Stamdens with DW on the other bar anyways, so having the good old Harvester of Sorrow made of Steel on bar is beneficial against Cloakers and for me goes nicely with Sub Assault if needs to knock some groups of hostile people at inner keeps and so on.

Stamden has many ways to deal with nightblades anyways, so if you wanna play 2h/SnB - you can, Detect Pots OR with other skills that are not a wasted slot, but will secure kills and do some group support on the side if playing with other peeps.

Don`t use Expert Hunter to Detect stuff, it is not good for that. 99% of times it`s just wasted stamina. Other options are very much available to everyone willing to use them and they work. And they work so good, as said, that against any good opponents when playing my nb i have to play without Cloak after contact.

You can learn a lot from this post. Read it and use it. Not only when it goes to countering cloak but also vs other classes. I try to level up all possible specs and play them for a while in Cyrodiil (since BGs will put you in low MMR and will not give you full insight in your character) to learn their strenghts and limitations. You would be surprised how much it can give you to actually play the spec that causes you some troubles, you can see what others do to counter it from another perspective and then use what you have learned from them.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Mayrael wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Being invisible shouldnt stop damage, should just make you invisible. Remove DoT immunity its stupid and annoying and I‘M sick of seeing weeny gankblades runnings away cos they’re losing.

...so accordingly to your logic AoEs should not break the cloak just deal damage.

Yes

Ok Make it happend pls! I will gladly sacrafice DoT suppression for cloak not being broken by AoEs

I’m sick of puncturing sweeps death recap. Get in there nightblades! Your time is now!

TequilaFire

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Being invisible shouldnt stop damage, should just make you invisible. Remove DoT immunity its stupid and annoying and I‘M sick of seeing weeny gankblades runnings away cos they’re losing.

...so accordingly to your logic AoEs should not break the cloak just deal damage.

Yes

Ok Make it happend pls! I will gladly sacrafice DoT suppression for cloak not being broken by AoEs

I’m sick of puncturing sweeps death recap. Get in there nightblades! Your time is now!

Stop standing there letting seeps hit you. Roll, walk through the Templar, don't be a deer in the headlights.

Luckylancer

This would be nice nerf IF nbs were overperforming. They are weaker than ever right now.

StaticWave

Vlad9425 wrote: »

Your agenda against nightblades is getting really old, why don’t you pop a detect potion or use an AOE or expect hunter / magelight like every half decent player does in the game to pull nightblades out of Cloak and stop making these dumb threads.

1/ Camo hunter is useless outside of a duel
2/ NB is the god of invisiblity you can't do anything about it. God above all

StaticWave

brandonv516 wrote: »

Ahh this topic...again!

I do recall responding to a similar thread within the last few months. [snip]

I will refrain from doing that today. But tomorrow is a different day...

[edited for baiting comment]

Thanks for contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion my friend. The nation owes you with gratitude for what you've done.

jadarock

You must be new OP

Katahdin

StaticWave wrote: »

2/ NB is the god of invisiblity you can't do anything about it. God above all

Nightblades have nothing else left and have been nerfed enough!

Are you a sorc?
How about we remove stun from streak and give it a 5 second cooldown between uses? Or even better, half the damage mitigation of any shield skill and you can't use more than one at a time.

Or are you a templar?
Let's half the amount of self healing any healing skill has

Deathlord92

idk wrote: »

Considering it was a huge change to the skill removing the cleans and merely having the DoTs be suppressed the change suggested above is not needed. There are hard and soft counters to cloak that work great. Learn to use them.

Yup I agree with this. I imagine this static player keeps dying to nbs that why he or she keeps hating so hard on them. Maybe I should try to get templars nerfed because I struggle most against them.

Deathlord92

Katahdin wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

2/ NB is the god of invisiblity you can't do anything about it. God above all

Nightblades have nothing else left and have been nerfed enough!

Are you a sorc?
How about we remove stun from streak and give it a 5 second cooldown between uses? Or even better, half the damage mitigation of any shield skill and you can't use more than one at a time.

Or are you a templar?
Let's half the amount of self healing any healing skill has

Staticwave will literally go on any nb thread and start hating lool

StaticWave

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

2/ NB is the god of invisiblity you can't do anything about it. God above all

Nightblades have nothing else left and have been nerfed enough!

Are you a sorc?
How about we remove stun from streak and give it a 5 second cooldown between uses? Or even better, half the damage mitigation of any shield skill and you can't use more than one at a time.

Or are you a templar?
Let's half the amount of self healing any healing skill has

Staticwave will literally go on any nb thread and start hating lool

The god of invisibility defiles the very existence of life. It must be destroyed.

StaticWave

Deathlord92 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Considering it was a huge change to the skill removing the cleans and merely having the DoTs be suppressed the change suggested above is not needed. There are hard and soft counters to cloak that work great. Learn to use them.

Yup I agree with this. I imagine this static player keeps dying to nbs that why he or she keeps hating so hard on them. Maybe I should try to get templars nerfed because I struggle most against them.

The only one I'm willing to keep dying to is the god of light, aka anything but cloak

TequilaFire

All the rules and lectures about baiting and yet threads like these that bait a whole class are allowed to exist.

jadarock

Show us on the teddy bear where the bad nb touched you...

Kel

Cirantille wrote: »

Why so much bashing over cloak?
It is a representetive class ability and every class has a different playstyle.
These guys are meant to be sneaky fellows who assasinate you from the shadows.
Strength =/= *roar* slash two handed weapon *roar*
Not every class meant to go toe to toe with you.

It is annoying, yes, but you can not take away such core thing from a class.
Carry detect pots, problem solved.

Disclaimer: Sorc main

You're making too much logical sense.

Don't you know this is the forums?

Where's your torch and pitchfork ?!

Kaios

Playing a magblade becomes a demoralizing affair after getting repeatedly wrecked time and time again on a class that is supposed to have a high damage output to make up for its squishiness. Cloak is easily countered by players that know what they are doing and I have not seen many magblades that are performing well with it, mostly it is stamblade that outputs significant damage while still being able to maintain some sustainability and tankiness, improving the overall effectiveness of their bombs.

I have been doing pvp content quite a lot lately and the amount of templars and sorcs compared to nightblades is hugely overwhelming. I really cannot see how cloak is even an issue considering the majority of players in Cyrodiil no longer play a nightblade at all.

brandonv516

StaticWave wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Ahh this topic...again!

I do recall responding to a similar thread within the last few months. [snip]

I will refrain from doing that today. But tomorrow is a different day...

[edited for baiting comment]

Thanks for contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion my friend. The nation owes you with gratitude for what you've done.

I suppose I can promote a healthy conversation even though this topic is a broken record.

Cloak is intended to negate DoTs - this was the bone they threw us when they took away the cleanse from Cloak.

What is the point in going in a circle with changes?

Players like you who don't want to adapt to changes would have this game doing that rather than going forward.

Ragnarock41

Currently stamsorc is probably the only class that struggles against dots. Every other class either has a purge, cloak or fat heals. Kind of ridicilous that they nerfed dot costs whilepurging multiple dots is much cheaper than applying them now.

MartiniDaniels

brandonv516 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Ahh this topic...again!

I do recall responding to a similar thread within the last few months. [snip]

I will refrain from doing that today. But tomorrow is a different day...

[edited for baiting comment]

Thanks for contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion my friend. The nation owes you with gratitude for what you've done.

I suppose I can promote a healthy conversation even though this topic is a broken record.

Cloak is intended to negate DoTs - this was the bone they threw us when they took away the cleanse from Cloak.

What is the point in going in a circle with changes?

Players like you who don't want to adapt to changes would have this game doing that rather than going forward.

I guess OP simply can't accept U24 after U23 when stamsorcs with critrush-dizzy-onslaught-executioner were surfing like gods on speed cap and nuking anybody not prepared in 2-3 GCD with broken dizzy knockback and hilarious damage numbers.

OWLTHEMAD

I think someone already said it, but go play a magblade in pvp for a solid amount of time. At least enough to be reasonably confident in your ability to play it. Then see if you still feel the same about nerfing cloak.
1:, you will learn very quickly how to deal with cloakers because you will fall victim to all the counters and see how they are used
2: you will see how difficult it is to be effective with that playstyle, and ALL the drawbacks that have been baked into the class to balance it against cloak.
3: you will see how fun that playstyle is, high risk high reward.

The big problem with nightblades is everything is balanced around cloak and they are made weaker because of it. You HAVE to specialise with a nightblade. That means using one version of cloak or the other. Its a waste to play a nightblade without it. If you dont run one morph or the other then literally any other class would be better. We dont hit as hard as people think. We have to spec for all damage to kill anything faster then you can kill us. If your not running impen or a normal amount of resistances then sure someone coming up from nowhere and bursting you down not fun, but thats the risk you CHOOSE to take.

If your getting picked on by a nightblade chances are your the only one that nightblade feels like he can actually beat. There are not many nightblades who can actually go toe to toe with just anyone in a burst and tank meta

idk

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

Vlad9425 wrote: »

Your agenda against nightblades is getting really old, why don’t you pop a detect potion or use an AOE or expect hunter / magelight like every half decent player does in the game to pull nightblades out of Cloak and stop making these dumb threads.

Let me just check your named counter... When you pop a detect potion you will lose a lot of important buffs and no one garantues that your potion isnt on cooldown when you need it. While cloak can be used without cooldown.

Not every class and build has access to aoe spammables. Stamina Warden has sub but with 3 seconds delay. Stamina necro needs to target the Nightblade to cast its aoe and blastbones can also be countered by cloak.

Expert hunter eats a whole skill slot for a buff that stamwarden gets from other, way superior skills (Green Lotus and bird of prey) and stamnecro is using crit potions and has its bar stuffed with more important skills.

Magelight gets used, yes but its hardly working. I even saw Nightblades cloaking right in front of me while magelight was active. And given the awful Performance in cyro the server often fails to recognize that the Nightblade was still in reveal range of the cast....

Pff... It's just like saying I'd like to be able to counter streaking away sorc but I don't want to use gap closers because I can't find space for it on my bars or I can't invest into speed because I l'd lose a lot of important buffs...

And about counters to cloak being weak. You would like to be able to disable cloak 100% of a time leaving NB no counter to your counter. If you think that counters to cloak should be "I win button" because you can permanently disable NBs main defense then I want same skills or potions to completely disable shields, bolt escape, heals, block etc. etc. Each of those defensive mechanics have counters that are not 100% effective, same with cloak.

YOU NEED TO LEARN HOW TO USE THOSE COUNTERS. PERIOD.

I kill NBs on regular basis and can tell you one thing. There is nothing easier to kill than cloaking magblade when you have detection potion up. Stamblades are harder because they can roll through this, but it's just a matter of experience, you need to know when to use counter.

You were saying that you go full combo with DBoS and NBs fades into cloak when in execute range... If you would use counter to cloak like expert hunter, mage light or detection potion before using DBoS NB not only wouldn't be able to disappear, but he would also waste GCD and magicka on trying to get into cloak at the first time, giving you option to use execute.

That's just L2P issue, you need to learn to predict your enemy moves and be one step ahead of them. That's all. You have needed tools, you just need to learn how to use them.

I already Said that expert hunter doesnt make any sense on a stamina warden cause there are better skills. Cloak itself just offers too much without drawbacks...

I could say same the same about any decent skill BoL/Streak, RAT, Betty/Bull netch, Ritual etc. etc. You still claim that you won't use counters to cloak because these are waste of slot/cool down while every single one good PvPer uses them. You really don't see anything wrong here? And what are nicks of your toons? I have good memory when it goes to good players I've met, maybe we have fought eachother?

I actually dont know any good stamina warden who would pick evil hunter over green lotus. Only Advantage evil hunter gives is the reveal of nightblades while you loose so much other important stuff...

For example my stamina Warden is Named Vordt and my Account name is Gnozo.

Most Nightblade are indeed killable for me cause i can handle it. But experienced ones that know how to cloak and Shadowimage are really really hard to kill. I am not talking about magblades, i am talking about stamblades

TBH I don't think I have 1v1 with you, but I have some 1v1s with U like B, Scream, Strepsels (on his DK), Frost Banana Reaper on his sorc and all of those fights ended in draws (CP charm), I know players better then them (or with better builds) who were able to kill me on build I was using back then like Clodth, Taksiit, Heresya. I haven't dueled with Jack, Visual or Dusk but I have heard they are one of the bests. Now how we will read it? As cloak being OP? Because I use cloak very very rarely in 1v1s, its my escape tool when outnumbered... Or maybe we should acuse some of my opponents skills as OP because I couldn't kill them or they were able to kill me?

I could say that ritual does to much, it cleanses negative effects, it gives minor mending and snare through passives, it heals you and your allies and it can even deal damage in huge aoe area making cloak completly useless in this area, but I don't, because you can counter it in few ways or even take advantage of it.

Same as you can take advantage of NB who relies to much on cloak. Good NB will always have backup plan if cloak fails which is pretty common scenario, but most NBs are completly defenseless when you take cloak from them. You need to choose what is more important for you, being able to counter cloak or have your "more important buffs" up. Same as others need to decide will they use gapclosers to counter streak, onslaught to counter high resistance builds etc. etc. Yes Evil Hunter may be redundant on Stam Warden but detection potions are not, you can switch them during combat. Potions are also more flexible, personaly Its the only counter I need against NBs.

Scream ye, i know those ppl. Visual and his tryhard Squad always hunting us and uploading a video of it when they clap us once Out of 10. Its cute while scream always dies First. Jack and Dusk are indeed really good players and visual too while i dont like his mentality tho.

Just in my point of view is that cloak is good against many things while those counters are only good against cloak and lack in every other aspect. Sure you can use detect pots but you will loose 7k stam, major endurance or other things that will be not avaible for 47(?) Seconds just to get a Window to hunt that Nightblade. And remember, i still talk about stamblades. And this detect doesnt last the full potion duration, not even half. Cloak is a very strong defensive and offensive tool that (in my opinion) is too strong in its current state. I dont fail to kill cloakers or getting one shotted by them as most ppl fail to recognize. Just the skill itself i find really strong with all what it brings.

Yes you talk about stamblades and yet as usual nerfing cloak would hurt already inferior spec which is magblade. So basically we should talk about nerfing stamblades not cloak. Also I don't think stamblades are really an issue this patch, they are brought in line with other specs or even a bit below them. Im not sure we should think on further nerfing stamblades, but even if we do so, please have in mind that magblades still exist and it would be nice to not nerf them in the process.

the only nurf he needs is an lesion in how to use his hot-well to change pots and use the right ones for the right reasons all comes down to choices and L2P nothing more to see or say here

and I will admit it took me a bit of trial and practice to settle in on how to use hard counters effectively. At that, I expect what works best for each of us really depends on our playstyle.

I used to get killed by snipers often. Now they rarely kill me when they try and I turn around and hunt them.

StaticWave

The cloaking plague must be taken down. bring NB to its doom!!!

idk

StaticWave wrote: »

The cloaking plague must be taken down. bring NB to its doom!!!

The counters to cloak are designed for this purpose. I suggest start using them, find which one(s) work best for your playstyle and then you can be the plague master and realize cloak is only as powerful as you allow it to be.

martinhpb16_ESO

Yeh nerf cloak, in fact remove it from the game.

Make NB's weaker than npc's. That work is almost done just a few more nerfs to go and maybe the anti-stealth brigade will finally be happy.

Honestly OP no clue