Regarding the new Potentates set

joseayalac

This set now has as a 2 piece bonus ¨Reduce damage taken from Players by 5%¨.

I've been thinking about running it on my defensive bar for PVP.

Can someone good at math and damage mitigation, elaborate on when is this set better?

Is it better when you have high resistances or lower resistances? Is it better for no CP or for CP?

hakan

Cant say better or not. 5 reduction is around 3300 resistance so may be that helps?

I like it on my dk. with cheaper ults it sounds awesome.

Iskiab

It’s decent.

660 resists is a 1% damage reduction, so it’s approximately equivalent to 3300 resists.

Thing is with resists they can be negated with onslaught, but also have the advantage of no diminishing returns outside neutering your damage and healing if you sacrifice too much to get your resists high.

I’d say give it a spin and see if you like it.

WrathOfInnos

The mitigation formula is pretty simple now, nearly all defensive buffs like this are multiplicative (exceptions are stacking armor or block mitigation). This 5% reduction literally means just multiply the previous incoming damage by 0.95 to get the new incoming damage. So if you take 1k damage from an enemy attack, then put this set on, you’ll take 950 damage from the same attack.

Ragnarock41

hakan wrote: »

Cant say better or not. 5 reduction is around 3300 resistance so may be that helps?

I like it on my dk. with cheaper ults it sounds awesome.

I've thought about it , but thinking on it you could have been running a full 5 piece instead, with some protective, isn't that better value?

I think having about 3 protective will give you the same value as this set does.

The ult cost reduction seems nice and all but is it really worth losing a full 5 piece you could be running instead?

Taleof2Cities

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I've thought about it , but thinking on it you could have been running a full 5 piece instead, with some protective, isn't that better value?

I think having about 3 protective will give you the same value as this set does.

The ult cost reduction seems nice and all but is it really worth losing a full 5 piece you could be running instead?

I think that’s going to vary quite a bit depending on the rest of the build.

If the player has enough smarts to run a monster set plus 2-piece arena weapon (such as BRP perfected duel wield) ... then that maximizes everything around the 3-piece Potentates and is a pretty good build.

But, most of the time you’re going to be right, @Ragnarock41.

Ragnarock41

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I've thought about it , but thinking on it you could have been running a full 5 piece instead, with some protective, isn't that better value?

I think having about 3 protective will give you the same value as this set does.

The ult cost reduction seems nice and all but is it really worth losing a full 5 piece you could be running instead?

I think that’s going to vary quite a bit depending on the rest of the build.

If the player has enough smarts to run a monster set plus 2-piece arena weapon (such as BRP perfected duel wield) ... then that maximizes everything around the 3-piece Potentates and is a pretty good build.

But, most of the time you’re going to be right, @Ragnarock41.

I mean I can already run BRP dual wield If I want to, I really don't need to sacrifice anything for it. I would still be running 2x 5 piece sets, with a full monster set.

Now I guess running this as a two piece back bar SnB set , can make sense.

Taleof2Cities

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I've thought about it , but thinking on it you could have been running a full 5 piece instead, with some protective, isn't that better value?

I think having about 3 protective will give you the same value as this set does.

The ult cost reduction seems nice and all but is it really worth losing a full 5 piece you could be running instead?

I think that’s going to vary quite a bit depending on the rest of the build.

If the player has enough smarts to run a monster set plus 2-piece arena weapon (such as BRP perfected duel wield) ... then that maximizes everything around the 3-piece Potentates and is a pretty good build.

But, most of the time you’re going to be right, @Ragnarock41.

I mean I can already run BRP dual wield If I want to, I really don't need to sacrifice anything for it. I would still be running 2x 5 piece sets, with a full monster set.

Now I guess running this as a two piece back bar SnB set , can make sense.

You could run both BRP dual wield and monster set ... but not on the same bar with 2x5 piece sets.

Regardless, I mostly agree with your first post anyway.

Iskiab

Hum that gave me an idea. MagDK Jorvlund, bloodspawn, 3 piece potentates, BRP DW + another weapon set. Protection + heroism + x potion.

Probably as close to an unkillable build as you can get.

joseayalac

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Now I guess running this as a two piece back bar SnB set , can make sense.

Yes, on my build my backbar is 100% defense, I don't care about offensive stats on that bar.

So I'm thinking of using it as a 2 piece SnB set, seems like the best option for this application, right?

TBois

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I've thought about it , but thinking on it you could have been running a full 5 piece instead, with some protective, isn't that better value?

I think having about 3 protective will give you the same value as this set does.

The ult cost reduction seems nice and all but is it really worth losing a full 5 piece you could be running instead?

I think that’s going to vary quite a bit depending on the rest of the build.

If the player has enough smarts to run a monster set plus 2-piece arena weapon (such as BRP perfected duel wield) ... then that maximizes everything around the 3-piece Potentates and is a pretty good build.

But, most of the time you’re going to be right, @Ragnarock41.

I mean I can already run BRP dual wield If I want to, I really don't need to sacrifice anything for it. I would still be running 2x 5 piece sets, with a full monster set.

Now I guess running this as a two piece back bar SnB set , can make sense.

I run 3pc potentates, 5pc spriggans, 2pc blood spawn, master 2h maul, brp dw on my stam sorc in group play. Dw back bar has temporal guard ult for passive minor protection and has major protection from brp dw. It seems to be a great balance of damage and defense with plenty of negates.

fred4

joseayalac wrote: »

This set now has as a 2 piece bonus ¨Reduce damage taken from Players by 5%¨.

I've been thinking about running it on my defensive bar for PVP.

Can someone good at math and damage mitigation, elaborate on when is this set better?

Is it better when you have high resistances or lower resistances? Is it better for no CP or for CP?

Sets like these are better at lower resistances. I once talked to someone who had done the math on Buffer of the Swift. To the best of my recollection, they claimed the break even point with pre-nerf Fortified Brass was 14K. I never asked whether that referred to resistances before or after penetration. I assume they meant 14K remaining resistances after penetration. If Brass pushed you beyond that mark, then Brass was better. Assuming the average player has 10K pen, Brass would therefore come good, over Swift, at 24K+ resistances. Presumably 24K+ buffed resistances. It's a thorny subject the more you think about it.

I did some math a while ago to figure out how to best distribute my CP, specifically Hardy / Elemental Defender vs Armor Focus and Spell Shield. I would hesitate to share it, because I'm not sure my understanding of it is correct, however the trend was that the more armor you have, the more effective it becomes adding further armor as opposed to other forms of mitigation. This is because adding armor is fundamentally additive, whereas all other forms of mitigation are multiplicative. The more sources of mitigation you stack, other than armor and crit resist, the more diminishing returns you incur. Also you never really reach the armor cap in PvP, due to penetration, thus you can't have enough of it. Anecdotally my PvP tank friend tells me adding armor feels effective up to about 45K, in PvP.

Potentates is a good set, because it doesn't have much competition as a two piece. I suppose it competes with a single 1.4K Armor buff piece. Really not sure at what point the latter would come good. I also suppose it competes with something like a Blackrose resto, which I would prefer, if that fits your build. Potentates should incur diminishing returns when you stack it with, for example, Temporal Guard on the same bar, but then again that's par for the course with all such forms of mitigation.

I strongly suspect the set is better in no CP, because Ironclad, Hardy, Elemental Defender, and so on, are multiplicative factors that don't exist there. The more such factors you have, the more they lob off each other's effectiveness.

JumpmanLane

It’s 5% damage reduction from PLAYERS which isn’t affected by their PENETRATION. AT. ALL. (Ok that may be hyperbolic. However, think vulnerability in reverse. Lol).

Let that sink in lol. It’s NOTICEABLE.

JumpmanLane

Iskiab wrote: »

Hum that gave me an idea. MagDK Jorvlund, bloodspawn, 3 piece potentates, BRP DW + another weapon set. Protection + heroism + x potion.

Probably as close to an unkillable build as you can get.

Yeah? But who you gonna kill in THAT?

Ragnarock41

joseayalac wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Now I guess running this as a two piece back bar SnB set , can make sense.

Yes, on my build my backbar is 100% defense, I don't care about offensive stats on that bar.

So I'm thinking of using it as a 2 piece SnB set, seems like the best option for this application, right?

Probably yes. Considering the state of SnB spammables I'd say its a lot smarter than using maelstrom or master SnB.

Ragnarock41

TBois wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I've thought about it , but thinking on it you could have been running a full 5 piece instead, with some protective, isn't that better value?

I think having about 3 protective will give you the same value as this set does.

The ult cost reduction seems nice and all but is it really worth losing a full 5 piece you could be running instead?

I think that’s going to vary quite a bit depending on the rest of the build.

If the player has enough smarts to run a monster set plus 2-piece arena weapon (such as BRP perfected duel wield) ... then that maximizes everything around the 3-piece Potentates and is a pretty good build.

But, most of the time you’re going to be right, @Ragnarock41.

I mean I can already run BRP dual wield If I want to, I really don't need to sacrifice anything for it. I would still be running 2x 5 piece sets, with a full monster set.

Now I guess running this as a two piece back bar SnB set , can make sense.

I run 3pc potentates, 5pc spriggans, 2pc blood spawn, master 2h maul, brp dw on my stam sorc in group play. Dw back bar has temporal guard ult for passive minor protection and has major protection from brp dw. It seems to be a great balance of damage and defense with plenty of negates.

Well the only case where using full 3 piece sets like these make sense is when you want to double slot arena weapons, and yours seems to be a niche , but strong one. I'm a huge fan of master 2h but I don't think I could sustain a build like that in no-cp, at least not as a Dk.

Iskiab

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Hum that gave me an idea. MagDK Jorvlund, bloodspawn, 3 piece potentates, BRP DW + another weapon set. Protection + heroism + x potion.

Probably as close to an unkillable build as you can get.

Yeah? But who you gonna kill in THAT?

Probably no one but glassy sorcs and NBs. You could probably make a decent tanky healer but sustain would be an issue.

I almost tried something similar but didn’t want to set it up and have it suck because of sustain.

You’d have:
Major protection (BRP DW extended with Jorvlund)
Minor protection (pot)
Major evasion (quick cloak)
Minor vitality (DK ability)
Major vitality (pot extended duration)
Heroism (pot extended duration)
Major endurance (DK ability)
Sorcery and prophesy (DK abilities)
Stamina sustain (earthen heart passives)
Major mending (DK ability)
Major expedition (quick cloak extended BRP)
Wings

Trick like you implied would be the magicka costs sustaining the abilities while balancing damage stats.

In a BG rooting people in shifting standard would be okay, but you’d likely be leaping a lot to help sustain.

hakan

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

hakan wrote: »

Cant say better or not. 5 reduction is around 3300 resistance so may be that helps?

I like it on my dk. with cheaper ults it sounds awesome.

I've thought about it , but thinking on it you could have been running a full 5 piece instead, with some protective, isn't that better value?

I think having about 3 protective will give you the same value as this set does.

The ult cost reduction seems nice and all but is it really worth losing a full 5 piece you could be running instead?

for my stamdk i have this; BS(or tk), fury, potentates, brp SNB and either brp duals or asylum two hander.