Detection skills broken

notyuu

the two detection skills, mage light and expert hunter according to the description reveal stealth and invisible enemies however testing has shown that the detection skills only work on sneaking enemies, those effected by invisibility potions are rather..interment with their..stealth failure but cloak [ya know, nightblade skill that makes the user invisible] is not effected at all by these skills [it is however disabled by detect pots semi-reliably]

so the question is
When are they going to fix the function of these skills to give them a reason to exist?

or failing that give them some alternative use, like..say, activating it gives a unique penetration buff for a few seconds.

CleymenZero

Glad someone is bringing it up...

The 2 skills you speak of have been completely useless fighting nightblades who crutch entirely on that skill to survive.

I'd understand if they survived because I had no detection skill but the fact that they can get away so easily and constantly reset the fight is really stupid.

When I fight a skilled Nb now, I walk away as they try to gank me over and over again. Not spending 10 minutes of my time hoping for that person to make a stupid mistake.

Langeston

This is not true at all with regard to cloak. Any time a detection skill or a potion is used, cloaked players within the appropriate radius are immediately pulled out of cloak. If they aren't visible to you, then they likely have moved outside of the radius. (I can only speak re: cloak, I don't know about invisibility potions — they very well could be bugged for all I lnow.)

CleymenZero

Langeston wrote: »

This is not true at all with regard to cloak. Any time a detection skill or a potion is used, cloaked players within the appropriate radius are immediately pulled out of cloak. If they aren't visible to you, then they likely have moved outside of the radius. (I can only speak re: cloak, I don't know about invisibility potions — they very well could be bugged for all I lnow.)

Unless the appropriate radius is 1-2m, at which point it becomes useless, it isn't functioning properly.

In essence, it may not be the same problem but it is functionally useless as well. You have to hug the player and spam the skill to detect.

We may have had different experiences but I've encountered many NBs and have the skills slotted on most if not all my different setups and it is useless.

The most succes I've had at pulling NBs out of cloak is to use offensive skills (and sometimes spamming them). Templars have been the most successful with spamming jabs and the fact that it snares them.

Langeston

CleymenZero wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

This is not true at all with regard to cloak. Any time a detection skill or a potion is used, cloaked players within the appropriate radius are immediately pulled out of cloak. If they aren't visible to you, then they likely have moved outside of the radius. (I can only speak re: cloak, I don't know about invisibility potions — they very well could be bugged for all I lnow.)

Unless the appropriate radius is 1-2m, at which point it becomes useless, it isn't functioning properly.

In essence, it may not be the same problem but it is functionally useless as well. You have to hug the player and spam the skill to detect.

We may have had different experiences but I've encountered many NBs and have the skills slotted on most if not all my different setups and it is useless.

The most succes I've had at pulling NBs out of cloak is to use offensive skills (and sometimes spamming them). Templars have been the most successful with spamming jabs and the fact that it snares them.

What skill do you slot?

Shardaxx

I've seen nbs blink in and out whilst well inside the radius of my detect pot too, it seems when cloak is activated, they blink out for a second, making them very hard to target and kill before the pot runs out.

Stebarnz

and yet NB players will moan constantly about being pulled out of cloak and how their crutch is broken.

Worst skill in the game FACT!

CleymenZero

Langeston wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

This is not true at all with regard to cloak. Any time a detection skill or a potion is used, cloaked players within the appropriate radius are immediately pulled out of cloak. If they aren't visible to you, then they likely have moved outside of the radius. (I can only speak re: cloak, I don't know about invisibility potions — they very well could be bugged for all I lnow.)

Unless the appropriate radius is 1-2m, at which point it becomes useless, it isn't functioning properly.

In essence, it may not be the same problem but it is functionally useless as well. You have to hug the player and spam the skill to detect.

We may have had different experiences but I've encountered many NBs and have the skills slotted on most if not all my different setups and it is useless.

The most succes I've had at pulling NBs out of cloak is to use offensive skills (and sometimes spamming them). Templars have been the most successful with spamming jabs and the fact that it snares them.

What skill do you slot?

Is this a serious question?

Camo Hunter and Inner Light... Is there anything I should know?

CleymenZero

Shardaxx wrote: »

I've seen nbs blink in and out whilst well inside the radius of my detect pot too, it seems when cloak is activated, they blink out for a second, making them very hard to target and kill before the pot runs out.

Well, the same happens with the detect skills. It'll be active while I'm hugging, they'll pop their skill and they'll disappear while still within what I'd say is less than 5m, I'll pop the skill once then twice and maybe three times at which they'll reappear.

What's the use of having a detect skill if it doesn't work?

Langeston

CleymenZero wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

This is not true at all with regard to cloak. Any time a detection skill or a potion is used, cloaked players within the appropriate radius are immediately pulled out of cloak. If they aren't visible to you, then they likely have moved outside of the radius. (I can only speak re: cloak, I don't know about invisibility potions — they very well could be bugged for all I lnow.)

Unless the appropriate radius is 1-2m, at which point it becomes useless, it isn't functioning properly.

In essence, it may not be the same problem but it is functionally useless as well. You have to hug the player and spam the skill to detect.

We may have had different experiences but I've encountered many NBs and have the skills slotted on most if not all my different setups and it is useless.

The most succes I've had at pulling NBs out of cloak is to use offensive skills (and sometimes spamming them). Templars have been the most successful with spamming jabs and the fact that it snares them.

What skill do you slot?

Is this a serious question?

Camo Hunter and Inner Light... Is there anything I should know?

Yes it was a serious question; I wanted to see what detection radius you were working with. If you morph inner light to Radiant Magelight the radius doubles from 6 to 12 m, making the area of effect 4 times larger. I think the problem you're running into is that you underestimate how quickly a magblade can escape a 6m radius.

I can escape most players using Camo & Inner Light. Radiant Magelight is much more difficult, and potions are next to impossible. I'm speaking from experience here as both a magblade and a stamblade: the skills are not bugged, they effectively pull NBs out of stealth. The 6m skills are simply more difficult to use than your other options.

Gilvoth

thats False information because,
i am Constantly pulled out of BOTH sneak and invisibility cast by mage light and also expert hunter
the same for invisibility potions because they also pull me out of invisibility potion by mage light and also expert hunter.
the same goes for detection potions, they also bring me out of invisibility, and sneak, and invisibility potions.

i dont know how you tested your attempts, but i can tell you your results are incorrect.
because EVERYTHING brings us out of stealth.

its real life illusion.
you got outplayed

Gilvoth

and by the way, its not that you cant bring us out of stealth -
the answer is:
i have tricked my enemy into thinking i was somewhere and i outplayed and tricked him to go in a direction that i am not at.
its real life illusion.
you got outplayed, stop blaming the detection skills available, because i was not at the place you thought i was at, Plain and Simple.

it's an illusion, i have been practicing it since i was a child, i just turned 60 on the 11nth.
i have been at this game a long time.

Gilvoth

CleymenZero wrote: »

When I fight a skilled Nb now, I walk away as they try to gank me over and over again. Not spending 10 minutes of my time hoping for that person to make a stupid mistake.

see, you didnt even die.
the only thing we are good at is escaping, but most of the time we are found and we die.

YOU however lived and survived and even later when you catch us you killed us.

so whos the real loser here? not you, you lived,

we lost not you, we got caught and died ...

CleymenZero

Langeston wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

This is not true at all with regard to cloak. Any time a detection skill or a potion is used, cloaked players within the appropriate radius are immediately pulled out of cloak. If they aren't visible to you, then they likely have moved outside of the radius. (I can only speak re: cloak, I don't know about invisibility potions — they very well could be bugged for all I lnow.)

Unless the appropriate radius is 1-2m, at which point it becomes useless, it isn't functioning properly.

In essence, it may not be the same problem but it is functionally useless as well. You have to hug the player and spam the skill to detect.

We may have had different experiences but I've encountered many NBs and have the skills slotted on most if not all my different setups and it is useless.

The most succes I've had at pulling NBs out of cloak is to use offensive skills (and sometimes spamming them). Templars have been the most successful with spamming jabs and the fact that it snares them.

What skill do you slot?

Is this a serious question?

Camo Hunter and Inner Light... Is there anything I should know?

Yes it was a serious question; I wanted to see what detection radius you were working with. If you morph inner light to Radiant Magelight the radius doubles from 6 to 12 m, making the area of effect 4 times larger. I think the problem you're running into is that you underestimate how quickly a magblade can escape a 6m radius.

I can escape most players using Camo & Inner Light. Radiant Magelight is much more difficult, and potions are next to impossible. I'm speaking from experience here as both a magblade and a stamblade: the skills are not bugged, they effectively pull NBs out of stealth. The 6m skills are simply more difficult to use than your other options.

I'll test it out. I'll see if a friend during a duel is able to disappear while being inside a small radius.

Edit: the situation that feeds the impression that it does not work is the fact that they don't often get away from jabs but almost always get away from those detect skills.

Cavedog

Langeston wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

This is not true at all with regard to cloak. Any time a detection skill or a potion is used, cloaked players within the appropriate radius are immediately pulled out of cloak. If they aren't visible to you, then they likely have moved outside of the radius. (I can only speak re: cloak, I don't know about invisibility potions — they very well could be bugged for all I lnow.)

Unless the appropriate radius is 1-2m, at which point it becomes useless, it isn't functioning properly.

In essence, it may not be the same problem but it is functionally useless as well. You have to hug the player and spam the skill to detect.

We may have had different experiences but I've encountered many NBs and have the skills slotted on most if not all my different setups and it is useless.

The most succes I've had at pulling NBs out of cloak is to use offensive skills (and sometimes spamming them). Templars have been the most successful with spamming jabs and the fact that it snares them.

What skill do you slot?

Is this a serious question?

Camo Hunter and Inner Light... Is there anything I should know?

Yes it was a serious question; I wanted to see what detection radius you were working with. If you morph inner light to Radiant Magelight the radius doubles from 6 to 12 m, making the area of effect 4 times larger. I think the problem you're running into is that you underestimate how quickly a magblade can escape a 6m radius.

I can escape most players using Camo & Inner Light. Radiant Magelight is much more difficult, and potions are next to impossible. I'm speaking from experience here as both a magblade and a stamblade: the skills are not bugged, they effectively pull NBs out of stealth. The 6m skills are simply more difficult to use than your other options.

Either the detect skills are bugged or cloak is bugged. NB's that can do essentially nothing except cloak then tell themselves they bad are a major problem in this game. In addition, cloak should be a defensive skill, not an offensive one. NB's shouldn't be able to fight while cloaked.

Cavedog

Gilvoth wrote: »

thats False information because,
i am Constantly pulled out of BOTH sneak and invisibility cast by mage light and also expert hunter
the same for invisibility potions because they also pull me out of invisibility potion by mage light and also expert hunter.
the same goes for detection potions, they also bring me out of invisibility, and sneak, and invisibility potions.

i dont know how you tested your attempts, but i can tell you your results are incorrect.
because EVERYTHING brings us out of stealth.

its real life illusion.
you got outplayed

L2P and stop relying on cloak

Langeston

Gilvoth wrote: »

and by the way, its not that you cant bring us out of stealth -
the answer is:
i have tricked my enemy into thinking i was somewhere and i outplayed and tricked him to go in a direction that i am not at.
its real life illusion.
you got outplayed, stop blaming the detection skills available, because i was not at the place you thought i was at, Plain and Simple.

it's an illusion, i have been practicing it since i was a child, i just turned 60 on the 11nth.
i have been at this game a long time.

This is also something a lot of players [that dont main NBs] don't realize: the amount of misdirection that is required to survive once you enter cloak.

My magblade is the squishiest toon in every BG I play in, by a mile.(Lowest resistances, lowest health, no impen, no burst heal.) The only stats I boost are sustain & damage, and I still do less damage than pretty much everyone on the field — and if I get caught it's almost always instant death.

Speed & misdirection are the only things that keep me alive, and because of the deficiencies I have to work with I've gotten very good at making people believe I am somewhere I'm not.

If you haven't tried the class I recommend it; I guarantee you'll have a different perspective on cloak (and it's many counters) once you're playing a nightblade in mid to high MMR BGs. (It gets less & less useful the higher you go, to the point of being almost useless.) Personally I think magblades are more fun than stamblades, but they're arguably harder to play.

susmitds

CleymenZero wrote: »

Glad someone is bringing it up...

The 2 skills you speak of have been completely useless fighting nightblades who crutch entirely on that skill to survive.

I'd understand if they survived because I had no detection skill but the fact that they can get away so easily and constantly reset the fight is really stupid.

When I fight a skilled Nb now, I walk away as they try to gank me over and over again. Not spending 10 minutes of my time hoping for that person to make a stupid mistake.

If they were really skilled and got the chance to open from stealth, you wouldn't have been alive. Chances are you have been facing mediocre Nightblades that clutch on cloak.

Langeston

[

CleymenZero wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

This is not true at all with regard to cloak. Any time a detection skill or a potion is used, cloaked players within the appropriate radius are immediately pulled out of cloak. If they aren't visible to you, then they likely have moved outside of the radius. (I can only speak re: cloak, I don't know about invisibility potions — they very well could be bugged for all I lnow.)

Unless the appropriate radius is 1-2m, at which point it becomes useless, it isn't functioning properly.

In essence, it may not be the same problem but it is functionally useless as well. You have to hug the player and spam the skill to detect.

We may have had different experiences but I've encountered many NBs and have the skills slotted on most if not all my different setups and it is useless.

The most succes I've had at pulling NBs out of cloak is to use offensive skills (and sometimes spamming them). Templars have been the most successful with spamming jabs and the fact that it snares them.

What skill do you slot?

Is this a serious question?

Camo Hunter and Inner Light... Is there anything I should know?

Yes it was a serious question; I wanted to see what detection radius you were working with. If you morph inner light to Radiant Magelight the radius doubles from 6 to 12 m, making the area of effect 4 times larger. I think the problem you're running into is that you underestimate how quickly a magblade can escape a 6m radius.

I can escape most players using Camo & Inner Light. Radiant Magelight is much more difficult, and potions are next to impossible. I'm speaking from experience here as both a magblade and a stamblade: the skills are not bugged, they effectively pull NBs out of stealth. The 6m skills are simply more difficult to use than your other options.

I'll test it out. I'll see if a friend during a duel is able to disappear while being inside a small radius.

Edit: the situation that feeds the impression that it does not work is the fact that they don't often get away from jabs but almost always get away from those detect skills.

Re: your edit, I agree. Two points though:

1. Jabs is a [very] loaded skill that pulls the NB out of cloak, does damage, and snares — all while healing/protecting the Templar. That's a nasty combination for getting a NB out of stealth & keeping him out. (The area of effect is also 8m instead of 6m like the skills you mentioned.) It's one of the worst skills in the game for a NB to come up against — you can't compare it to a generic detection skill.

2. I feel like detect skills aren't supposed to completely destroy a NB's ability to to cloak/defend themselves, they're designed more as a defensive skill to allow you to reset the fight by temporarily neutralizing the NB. If you hit the skill and the NB disappears & stops attacking, the skill did it's job (even if you can't see the annoying [snip].)

I main a magblade & I find NBs just as irritating as you do, trust me. But the thing is, that's all they are: an annoyance. Like a fly. They buzz around & annoy the [snip] out of you, but don't do any real damage & when you do finally catch them, they're dead quickly.

When I load into a BG & see a team of 4 Sorcs, I say "aw [snip]." Same thing for any combination of 4 Templars/DKs. When I see a team of 4 NBs though, I just laugh to myself & slot some detect pots.

[Edit for minor profanity]

Fur_like_snow

The answer is buff stealth detection skills like camo hunter and the other morph of mage light to 12m.

Langeston

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

The answer is buff stealth detection skills like camo hunter and the other morph of mage light to 12m.

No, that would just be a slaughter. Those skills are already working as intended & are effective if used properly. And, as mentioned, there are two other options that are even more effective. No other defensive skill on the game is as unreliable and easily defeated as cloak is.

I didn't even mention Blinding Flare & Lingering Flare from the support line — two more skills available to everyone. One of them not only reveals stealthed/invisible enemies, but also stuns them.

There are plenty of options to work with.

Ragnarock41

notyuu wrote: »

the two detection skills, mage light and expert hunter according to the description reveal stealth and invisible enemies however testing has shown that the detection skills only work on sneaking enemies, those effected by invisibility potions are rather..interment with their..stealth failure but cloak [ya know, nightblade skill that makes the user invisible] is not effected at all by these skills [it is however disabled by detect pots semi-reliably]

so the question is
When are they going to fix the function of these skills to give them a reason to exist?

or failing that give them some alternative use, like..say, activating it gives a unique penetration buff for a few seconds.

Never. I've asked for those skills to be fixed literally YEARS ago.

Developers are biased, deal with it or move on. Thats all.

Just give it a few more patches they'll nerf detect pots aswell since they sometimes actually work.

CleymenZero

susmitds wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

Glad someone is bringing it up...

The 2 skills you speak of have been completely useless fighting nightblades who crutch entirely on that skill to survive.

I'd understand if they survived because I had no detection skill but the fact that they can get away so easily and constantly reset the fight is really stupid.

When I fight a skilled Nb now, I walk away as they try to gank me over and over again. Not spending 10 minutes of my time hoping for that person to make a stupid mistake.

If they were really skilled and got the chance to open from stealth, you wouldn't have been alive. Chances are you have been mediocre Nightblades that clutch on cloak.

Depends, in BGs, I can't remember having been ganked ever. This is actually where I waste a lot of ressources trying to hunt those that try. In overland pvp, I have been ganked lately but most of the time it happens midfight with a lot of players fighting on both sides.

I've encountered 2 players that were capable of bringing opponents down easily and I'm sure those players are more successful now than ever with the crazy desyncs and skills not firing and all.

So they'll ele weapon into a light attack into soul harvest into a vamp drain into execute on a magblade. It would be focused aim into crushing weapon into light attack into incap into execute on stamblade. Don't know if stamblades still run the same stuff though but I know from past week that the magblade who pretty much 1 shot me midfight while I was bawling others used that combo.

With how clunky the servers are, they are assuredly more successful now than ever but it wasn't always like this. Running around with 26k health with about as much resist with 3k crit resist, my health went from 100 to 0% in what seemed like 1 second but then again, I've noticed stupidly insane desyncs this patch and I sometimes need to press Vigor about 3 times before it fires...

Bottom line is the detect skills are clunky.

notyuu

Langeston wrote: »

This is not true at all with regard to cloak. Any time a detection skill or a potion is used, cloaked players within the appropriate radius are immediately pulled out of cloak. If they aren't visible to you, then they likely have moved outside of the radius. (I can only speak re: cloak, I don't know about invisibility potions — they very well could be bugged for all I lnow.)

that would make sense if it wasn't for the fact that this was literally tested with a coperative nightblade and the result was they only exited stealth when they were literally touching me. ergo something is wrong with the detection skills [or cloak's stealth flags are different from the detection skills stealth flag check]

and before you ask if it's some gear or racial, they were a naked imperial

Kadoin

Everyone should know by now that both of those skills are worthless and to use a ground AoE like ice wall, eruption, ritual of retribution, etc. or a detect pot instead. Poisons also work.

I've literally been right next to NBs and had them revealed only for them to cloak (without moving), and be revealed by a ground AoE instead.

But don't let the NBs hear me say that...

Tommy_The_Gun

Fur_like_snow

Camo hunter costs 5.4k stam to activate and i have to be practically on top of the NB for it to matter. Buff the range or reduce the cost.