Status of magicka necro?

festher

After playing a magplar for some time, necromancer feels like poop. both damage and support is trash. The heals are weak and clumsy, their damage is weak and deppended on all kinds of stuff like corpse and blastbones behavoir etc. lol

how much dmg is your blastbone? i hardly get 9k tooltip in BGs wearing chudan, crafty, btb nirn/golded destro, jewl all spell dmg. I think its even worse than when i left him to rot.

JinxxND

I think it's a pretty good class, definitely not easy mode or top tier. Kinda crutches on vamp drain without that I think it will really suffer. Stalking blast bones is a lil buggy but the damage is fine if you build for it. I wouldn't say it's as solo friendly other classes just because it is terrible slow from a speed perspective but it offers a lot esp in BG's with heals and damage and the strongest ult in the game.

Jimmy_The_Fixer

I’ve seen it perform exceptionally when piloted well.

KillsAllElves

E$OH has a necromancer?

Baphomet

Fix blastbones and intensive mender and magcros will be in a good spot in PvP.

Dr_Ganknstein

Templars have been op(easymode) for a while now, that's what your problem is. You basically just started playing on normal mode.

chrightt

Running sharpened would actually give you more msg on staves than nirnhorned. Magcros are carried by their group utility in small scale fights due to their AoE abilities like their ultimates. For hard CC if you’re trying to play solo you usually need flame clench (which sucks ass) or vamp drain (which is quite a strong skill - definitely overtuned). Blast bones are actually very very strong considering their tool tips. The problem is it doesn’t always land.

Try using bloodspawn instead and slot summoner’s armor somewhere. Summoner’s gives you one extra corps so you can extend your deaden pain or whatever you like to run as corps using skill while the reduction in summon cost will pay for the majority of summon armor. Why so many “just cast them once per X Sec skills?” Well, because that’s all magnecros are good at atm.

Definitely one of the harder classes to perform well atm.

Dr_Ganknstein

Blastbones damage is pretty low considering how they function. Long cast time and chances of actually hitting a target is low. Many times they bug out and stand there existing so you cant cast them again.

festher

i played alot more. this class is terrible if even noticed in BGs. its not difficult to play. its not rewarding and it has no high skill cap. its just bad lol

JinxxND

festher wrote: »

i played alot more. this class is terrible if even noticed in BGs. its not difficult to play. its not rewarding and it has no high skill cap. its just bad lol

So just because your bad on the class the class is bad? Well I got the class for the type of player you are, and it's called mag sorc that or you could go back to magplar

katorga

Too many skills are broken and/or don't function well.

No mobility. No gap closer. No execute. No functional CC.

Just sub par all the way around.

wheem_ESO

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

I’ve seen it perform exceptionally when piloted well.

Who are some of the people that perform "exceptionally" when piloting the class well? So far as I know, it isn't "naming and shaming" if you're giving compliments. I'll award some bonus internet points if the player in question has videos up that are more than highlight reels of stomping on newbs or playing premade-vs-randoms.

I've barely done anything besides mount training and the Witches Festival event since Dragonhold went up on the PTS, but prior to that I can think of one singular person that I saw do "OK" on an offense-oriented Magicka Necromancer in Battlegrounds. Even then, that very same player was significantly more dangerous to me on his other characters than he was on the Mag Necro. The only time I remember him ever "destroying" me was when I ate two Ricochet Skulls for around 6.8k - 7k back to back, due to him hitting someone else with Onslaught just before that (yes, on a Magicka build). A single dodge roll would typically nullify the Colossus when he was using that, and Magicka Necromancer's other damage generally isn't a huge problem to deal with...and that was before DOTs and the Skeletal Mage were gutted.

JinxxND wrote: »

festher wrote: »

i played alot more. this class is terrible if even noticed in BGs. its not difficult to play. its not rewarding and it has no high skill cap. its just bad lol

So just because your bad on the class the class is bad? Well I got the class for the type of player you are, and it's called mag sorc that or you could go back to magplar

I'm afraid I don't find this argument to be very strong. If the previous poster and I were the only ones having issues on Magicka Necromancers, you might have a point. But where are all the other Magicka Necromancers that should have been steamrolling us newbs over the last few patches?

As stated above, I saw a grand total of 1 that couldn't basically be ignored in BGs. It's possible that they've come out of the woodwork this patch, or that they do better in CP-PvP, or in laggy Cyrodiil zergs, or whatever. But in Elsweyr it was hands down the worst class in the game, by a lot, and it was thoroughly mediocre in Scalebreaker. Stacking up some DOTs for pressure and combo'ing Meteor + Blastbones + Vampire Drain was fairly decent for unorganized games, but the class was still basically trash against halfway decent premades.

srnm

One or two campaigns ago there was a multi emp magcro
But he was running the harmony cheez build...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaQXXe5H4nDXu5jKm-Heskg
Iceyxpanda is prolly the best no cheez magcro on pc na
And has the hate whispers to prove it - yep a magcro gets hate !

wheem_ESO

srnm wrote: »

One or two campaigns ago there was a multi emp magcro
But he was running the harmony cheez build...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaQXXe5H4nDXu5jKm-Heskg
Iceyxpanda is prolly the best no cheez magcro on pc na
And has the hate whispers to prove it - yep a magcro gets hate !

Skill is by no means required to get Emperor, and there are a lot of newb-stomps in CP-enabled Cyrodiil on that youtube channel (and he's also using what you term the "harmony cheez build"). That doesn't mean that the player in question isn't good, and I'm not trying to belittle him in any way. But, being able to make highlight reels of beating bad/under-leveled/under-geared players in CP-enabled Cyrodiil doesn't mean that the class is actually any good.

That gimmicky Harmony + self-synergy stuff might work fine when you drag a few "thirsty" players that you heavily outclass through a doorway, but up against someone who's actually good - especially if they're in a coordinated group with other solid players and have dedicated heals? Nah.

I'll try to be a bit more specific in my "request" - how about some video of small scale fights against competent opposition, preferably in BGs and/or no-CP Cyrodiil? Because in my experience, Magicka Necromancer offense is trash under those circumstances. In Scalebreaker, with pre-nerf DOTs and a thoroughly overpowered Onslaught (yes, even for Magicka builds), I can only recall seeing one singular Magicka Necromancer that was remotely dangerous to me. And, as I stated before, that exact same player was much more dangerous on other characters than he was on the Mag Necro.

Jimmy_The_Fixer

@wheem_ESO

If you’re on PCNA I would invite you to fight @Jajablast , I’ll give you 100k if you can beat him in a best-of-3

Akinos

@wheem_ESO
My magnecro pvp playlist for this update and last update, not many harmony clips if any:

I went from melee magicka necro with scythe to master lightning shock clench, both playstyles can work. I've fought and won fights in both heavy and light, against both pugs and good players. I don't think mag necro is as bad as you put it, it just depends on the player.


I'll be uploading some battleground footage tonight too.

srnm

@wheem_ESO

I didn't look too closely at the gameplay clips to check the build -- but I did assume he was playing his build as explained here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKyK_OZiFcg
and there is no harmony there...

wheem_ESO

srnm wrote: »

@wheem_ESO

I didn't look too closely at the gameplay clips to check the build -- but I did assume he was playing his build as explained here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKyK_OZiFcg
and there is no harmony there...

He's using Avid Boneyard in both of the most recent videos on his Magicka Necromancer. It's possible that he's using that self-synergy without Harmony Jewelry, but I sort of doubt it, given the damage numbers that one gets with other jewelry traits.

Canned_Apples

festher wrote: »

i played alot more. this class is terrible if even noticed in BGs. its not difficult to play. its not rewarding and it has no high skill cap. its just bad lol

No class is "difficult" to play, some just have better core abilities and passives.

Templars and Sorcerers have the best kits, with Sorcerers beating out Templars this patch.

Juhasow

Akinos wrote: »

@wheem_ESO
My magnecro pvp playlist for this update and last update, not many harmony clips if any:

I went from melee magicka necro with scythe to master lightning shock clench, both playstyles can work. I've fought and won fights in both heavy and light, against both pugs and good players. I don't think mag necro is as bad as you put it, it just depends on the player.


I'll be uploading some battleground footage tonight too.

No offense but all I see in the video above is crutching on accelerating drain which is simply broken overtuned ability and everyone who uses it knows that. I would say more then half of those kills wouldn't happen if there would be different ability used to stun the enemy.

Akinos

Juhasow wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

@wheem_ESO
My magnecro pvp playlist for this update and last update, not many harmony clips if any:

I went from melee magicka necro with scythe to master lightning shock clench, both playstyles can work. I've fought and won fights in both heavy and light, against both pugs and good players. I don't think mag necro is as bad as you put it, it just depends on the player.


I'll be uploading some battleground footage tonight too.

No offense but all I see in the video above is crutching on accelerating drain which is simply broken overtuned ability and everyone who uses it knows that. I would say more then half of those kills wouldn't happen if there would be different ability used to stun the enemy.

Yeah well magneros don't really have a choice now do they? It's either vamp drain or the unreliable class stun that costs to much magicka and won't fear anybody unless their stacked on top of you. Even then, the delay on the skill makes it awful. WTB actual useful class stun for necro.

katorga

Akinos wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

@wheem_ESO
My magnecro pvp playlist for this update and last update, not many harmony clips if any:

I went from melee magicka necro with scythe to master lightning shock clench, both playstyles can work. I've fought and won fights in both heavy and light, against both pugs and good players. I don't think mag necro is as bad as you put it, it just depends on the player.


I'll be uploading some battleground footage tonight too.

No offense but all I see in the video above is crutching on accelerating drain which is simply broken overtuned ability and everyone who uses it knows that. I would say more then half of those kills wouldn't happen if there would be different ability used to stun the enemy.

Yeah well magneros don't really have a choice now do they? It's either vamp drain or the unreliable class stun that costs to much magicka and won't fear anybody unless their stacked on top of you. Even then, the delay on the skill makes it awful. WTB actual useful class stun for necro.

And accelerating drain is definitely NOT a "broken overtuned ability" compared to any other channel damage ability, any other major expedition ability, or any other CC.

Jeez the hyperbole is strong in this thread.

srnm

The reason vamp drain is nasty is that it can be ani cancelled.
It can take an extra tick to realise you need to break it - even worse if you are playing on high ping...

Juhasow

srnm wrote: »

The reason vamp drain is nasty is that it can be ani cancelled.
It can take an extra tick to realise you need to break it - even worse if you are playing on high ping...

Thing is if You'll let it run for less then a second it'll do 2 ticks of damage and those 2 ticks already deal more damage then spammable ability which You can use withinh 0,9 sec global cooldown so essentialy drain hits harder then spammable ability , applies undodgable stun that is very often barely visible or hearable and on top of that it heals plus gives minor expedition while being very cheap.

Trancestor

People say magnecro is the slowest mag class but ironically it is the fastest one personally as its the only one i use vamp drain with (magsorc would be faster but its the only mag class i dont play) so minor expedition + major from RaT = pretty damn fast. And yeah vamp drain is what carries magnecro atm from being really bad to being decent.

Baphomet

Drain is good, but it is also close-range, blockable and interuptible, and as long vigor has 20k+ tooltips, it needs to stay good.

Only squishy NBs that tries to dodge-roll it should have a problem with it - which can be countered with smarter tactics.

However, the argument is true - vamp drain is the only thing that elevates magcroes from rubbish to mediocre in PvP.

Now, fix intensive mender and blastbones and magcroes would actually be competible.

MizoreReyes

It relies too much on vampire drain.

Bullseyebudx

At the end of U23 I was very happy with my build performance. I knew I'd be losing some DPS but it didn't really occur to me how painful it is to give up a utility slot for Blastbones to make up that DPS difference, while losing a little HPS too.

Of course it's not really a comparable swap, Entropy and Skelly Pet are 100% up time as long as they're cast and entropy isn't purged, vs BB up time, need I say more.

I understand why people go to drain because it's got everything the build is looking for and the alternative, Blastbones, doesn't work very consistently, can you really blame people for moving this direction?

A consistent stun on impact with damage plus other effect is still super op and it's pretty clear you need the effect to play competitively in PvP if you don't have enough sources of consistent damage.

I really think dropping the skelly mage dps was a mistake; if I at least had that DPS still I think I could make up for the loss on entropy using Blastbones.

RIP my 34K TT on Entropy I'll never forget you. </3

I'm testing out vampire currently, mostly as a healer, but for DPS I don't have any class abilities on my front bar right now, except Colossus which barely survived a screeching mob of players, I'm sure, unwilling to use a cleanse effect. SMH.

Even if there's a plan to adjust Empowering grasp, which is potentially the missing 40% dmg., why leave people in the dark? ZOS didn't draw back the healing on the other pet so what gives?

Sneakers

I started playing ESO mid July this year and made a necro as first and only character, despite knowing better.


My experience is that what kills in this game is:
1) burst
2) access to instant CC
3) access to spammable long range executioners

The only reason DoTs was popular last patch was that it saturated HoTs so you could "easily" burst people down even when they were on defensive by comboing burst+CC+executioner.

My magicka necro has:
Breton race
1890 magicka restore
605CP
Vampire III
24.6k battlespirit HP
40.6k magicka
10.5k stamina
32k spell resis (buffed)
28k phys resis (buffed)
3200 spell damage (wep dmg + infused)
4400 buffed spell damage (burst spell dmg)
19400 penetration

Tooltip wep dmg + infused:
blastbones = ~15200
Tooltip forcepulse = 3190*3 (9570)
Tooltip accelerated drain = 5980

My burst spell dmg after 500 ultimate drop:

blastbones = ~18200
Tooltip forcepulse = 3700*3 (11100)
Tooltip accelerated drain = 7000
Colossus hits = 13700 each hit plus the 30% vuln added

I still feel that the class simply doesnt perform even under these rather high damage levels.

People easily mitigate 90% of the tooltip dmg and since mag necro lacks easy access to multiple cycleable CC and ranged executioner things simple do not die if somewhat competent and can block/apply a HoT/streak.

I have had "tanky people" take 2500 critical damage off of a 13700 tool tip colossus hit, which 90% easily roll out of, many without taking a single hit.

What I feel is the main problem with the class is:

Blast bones clunkyness/buggyness/unrealiable/brokenness
No easy access to multiple CC outside of accelerated drain
Corpse mechanics are lack luster at best - corpses last too short of a time for them to be reliably used tactically
Ricochét skulls mechanics are broken it cannot be weaved due to intended or unintended casting mechanics making it inferior to force pulse (imo)
Grave yard self synergy ability is buggy - for 2 patches 50% of the time it fails to direct damage people/monsters inside of the graveyard
No access to an execution outside of 2h spec (stamina)


I feel silly to be so stubborn to continue to try and make necro work when it is so obvious it is lacking too much of the core abilities to even be on the same foot as sorceress/warden/DK/stamNB.

I will probably give up quite soon and just exp a sorcerer and use the very same items and enjoy the game without playing with 2 broken legs and 1 arm tied behind my back.

Well thats my take on the currect situation.

markusloveFTM

katorga wrote: »

Too many skills are broken and/or don't function well.

No mobility. No gap closer. No execute. No functional CC.

Just sub par all the way around.

This, sadly, I think magicka necromancers will just become sorcerers.

Waffennacht

Anyone whom performs decently on a mag necro will perform just as well or better on any other mag class