ESO PvP Balance Suggestions (for BGs)

SoixanteNeuf

Balance in battlegrounds has been progressively getting better. However, there are a few things that didn't warrant changes and a few things that have started overperforming in light of the recent changes. I'll outline them below along with reasons why.


Magsorcs

Magsorcs had inherent counters but with the removal of counters via :

1. dizzy swing nerf
2. recent reduction in dot damage from other classes (magplar/dragonknight) while the magsorcs burst damage remained unchanged
3. notable bleeds/snares
4. instant cast burst ults like onslaught/dawnbreaker/incap (to burst them when their shield window is down)

.. in addition to class buffs :

1. streak cost reduction
2. matriarch breath of life heal
3. unblockable streak plus cc time buff to 3 secs
4. proc'd cfrag cost reduction (?)

.. plus inherently bg-oriented features such as :

1. long range burst combo
2. strong pressure from overload (most efficient ult:dmg ratio)
3. the best killsteal execute in the game

.. has made this class outperform other classes when it comes to battlegrounds.

Here are my suggested fixes :

• Endless fury should proc only from the caster's damage
  
  Making Endless fury proc only from the caster's damage will bring this in line with Power of the light. It should still retain its perk as a debuff.
  
  This will remove their unrivaled killstealing potential in bgs and bring them in line with other classes.
  
  
• Revert the streak cost reduction buff
  
  Magsorcs were mobile but not overpowered a few patches ago. They could be punished for overextending due to the lesser amount of streaks before running out of mana.
  However, with the reduction in streak cost - less thought needs to be given as to when a magsorc should streak, which results in making them the hardest class to catch, in addition to having a very strong cc.
  
  The reduction in overall snare potency while good for the overall game, has also compounded the effects of the streak cost reduction buff.
  
  
• Revert the matriarch breath of life heal
  
  The pet already functions as a snare/body block/damage dealer - there wasn't any reason to give this class an AoE heal on par with BoL.
  
  
• Reduce the damage and mana restore from energy overload
  
  Energy overload has the most cost efficient ult:damage ratio in the entire game in addition to the 1k mana restore per hit
  
  
• Reduce the damage from crystal frags by ~10%
  
  Using dizzy swing as a baseline, a 28m ranged projectile shouldn't have a higher tooltip than a channeled melee skill. It doesn't give off bal but with the streak buff cost reduction/unblockable cc, there's little reason why the no off bal should be an issue.

Dizzy Swing

Reinstate the CC from Dizzy swing

• The removal of the cc removed a lot of unwarranted potency of 2H stam builds
• Increased the margin of error against 2H, which lowers the overall defensive skill ceiling in this game
• 0.8 second channel time and accurate aim/positioning is poor value in terms of risk:reward
• From a flavour perspective, a lot of "cool" combos were removed with this Dizzy swing nerf

3rd party Heal Reduction

With the reduction of overall dot damage in this patch, healers are now overperforming once again. A reduction in the potency of 3rd party healing would encourage less "ballgroup"-like behaviour, which promotes a higher skill ceiling. (aka. not relying someone else to heal you, you have to rely on defending/healing yourself)

I personally find healers to be detrimental to the overall "fast" flow of ESO combat, they lead to stalemates in group combat - especially in this patch.

Suggestions :

• Battle Spirit buff reduces healing received from 3rd parties by 20%
• Heal stacking has exponential diminishing returns (aka. consecutive rapid regens would be 50% less than the one prior)

Lower Tanking Efficiency

Tanks have a role in PvE but little purpose in PvP. Some might present themselves as debuffers/snarers but realistically, they end up giving CC/snare immunity to their targets and prevent well-timed bursts from DPS roles.

1. Instate a health / mitigation cap.

Premades Overperforming

With the removal of MMR, premades are now overperforming more than ever. In the past, solo queuers had a chance against premades - for example, if there were strong high mmr solo queuers that were placed in opposite teams of the premades, they could beat the premades (which was satisfying to do).

However, getting put into a group of random low cp MMR players against a well-coordinated premade in voice comms is an auto loss, which is a waste of time and unenjoyable.

Ideally, BGs should be fair and sorting should be random. Premades are a simple form of gaming the system to compensate for a lack of self sufficiency/skill.

Additionally, there's Cyrodiil, if groups want to play together.

1. Reinstate MMR
2. Perhaps "real" MMR based on actual wins/losses, not bgs played
3. Create "group only" and "solo only" queues

In my opinion, I think we're getting closer to balance. However, all the above-mentioned factors have slowed down PvP and lowered the skill ceiling in bgs, making this patch extremely unenjoyable to play in (in addition to the queue bug).

Thanks for reading!

UrbanMonk

So....Nerf Sorcs?

Anyron

Streak was changed because it works with same mechanic like dodge roll, but there was different cost. While dodge had only +33%, streak had 50%

Matriarch heal was buffed because that pet has little to no damage. There was also increased cost, which you dont mentioned and it takes two slots to use

Overload is crappy ultimate. It isnt worth of it cost. Slow, glowing projectile with minimum travel time which misses most of time in pvp.

ThePedge

Anyron wrote: »

Streak was changed because it works with same mechanic like dodge roll, but there was different cost. While dodge had only +33%, streak had 50%

Matriarch heal was buffed because that pet has little to no damage. There was also increased cost, which you dont mentioned and it takes two slots to use

Overload is crappy ultimate. It isnt worth of it cost. Slow, glowing projectile with minimum travel time which misses most of time in pvp.

But Streak is incomparable to roll dodge. Roll dodge isn't an unblockable stun and doesn't travel a stupidly long distance.

Qbiken

Reinstate the powersigil for death match xD

Anyron

ThePedge wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Streak was changed because it works with same mechanic like dodge roll, but there was different cost. While dodge had only +33%, streak had 50%

Matriarch heal was buffed because that pet has little to no damage. There was also increased cost, which you dont mentioned and it takes two slots to use

Overload is crappy ultimate. It isnt worth of it cost. Slow, glowing projectile with minimum travel time which misses most of time in pvp.

But Streak is incomparable to roll dodge. Roll dodge isn't an unblockable stun and doesn't travel a stupidly long distance.

Streak doesnt dodge projectiles and melee atacks

Vanzen

Considering the time now that Bgs have been in existence.
Considering the huge amount of score's surveys that the devs have at their disposal.

Its an absolute scandal that they still dont acknowledge and remedy to the never ending astounding superiority of sorcs over any other classes.

I know, I have one I play when the the poor player that I am wants to have the illusion he's good at pvp. Illusion that goes away the moment I go back to MDK or anything else compared to sorc. A bit with Nb but vs potatoes only.

FGS nerf the sorcs into the ground and nerf them more !

BNOC

I ain't finished below a sorc in a BG for about 2 years on Magplar - If you can survive their burst (however you choose to), they don't have much else.

Cast time Ults
The .4s on ults is no drama, I don't know why people fuss on that, I use Dawny in BGs for the group AOE and it's barely noticeable.

Fury
I do quite like your change to Fury as that is a no skill abilitiy - Too many sorcs go into BGs and literally spam that over and over, especially when you're not fighting them.
Same thing happens with noob Templars spamming Radiant praying their team gets you weak as well so we can chalk that up to inexperience and lack of skill on the classes - Would be a potentially good change though.

Overload
Overload is historically another no skill ability for the same players as above, it's rare I see it (at least in higher MMR) so I don't think that needs changed.

Dizzy
From a 'cool' perspective, a lot of backpack combos were made worse with the dizzying change - Think Stam Warden, 3 button builds etc; It's not a bad thing that they're gone.
Dizzying is fine as it is there's more than enough reward for pressing that 1 skill over and over, it's still being used by a lot of stam players doing very similar 3 button combos [Dizzy -> Leap -> Executioner, Dizzy -> Berserker -> Executioner] etc which shouldn't be so simple imo.


Healers
Healers are fine, it's poor matchmaking when a healer is on one team only, but for the most part (away from premades) they're not the best, so you can just focus them - I agree though that if it's a decent healer, it ruins the game unless all teams have one.

Tanks
Tanks are redundant in BG's and if you see one you can safely say you're a man short, I don't think limiting their health or mitigation matters because you can just ignore them (As it's no CP, most are easily killed anyway)

MMR & Premades
Everyone knows premades ruin BG's when matched against solo players - They are often easily dealt with alone like you said but if they hold each others *** 24/7 it can be tough and they shouldn't be in there with solo players - They should be matched separately, especially when you then get 3 <160CP's on your team but I wouldn't hold your breathe on that.

For MMR to work, it has to exist and have visibility, whether there's a seasonal leaderboard or what doesn't matter, it should at the very least be displayed in your game leaderboard - In my BG's there's always multiple people who I guarantee shouldn't be in there and I really don't understand what got them there in the first place.

Make it visible, match people correctly and figure out a good system to manage it, be that ELO or something else.

MMR should not be based on Wins/Losses because you'll just get people losing games over and over to just smash their way back up (Like dropping down from Div 1 to Div 8 in Fifa to beat all the scrubs 19-0 each game until you're Div 1 again, then repeating)
And although a potentially controversial opinion, I find people that play Objectives hard, are generally quite bad at PvP and will avoid it at almost any cost, some doing < 100k damage in a game that I do 2M for example - There needs to be a balance, maybe a minimum damage output or some kind of algorithm that takes healing/damage and adjusts your MMR gain based on that.

I chucked together an example here https://dotnetfiddle.net/o1jf4B - It's not definitive or even remotely optimal but you get the idea

SoixanteNeuf

Anyron wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Streak was changed because it works with same mechanic like dodge roll, but there was different cost. While dodge had only +33%, streak had 50%

Matriarch heal was buffed because that pet has little to no damage. There was also increased cost, which you dont mentioned and it takes two slots to use

Overload is crappy ultimate. It isnt worth of it cost. Slow, glowing projectile with minimum travel time which misses most of time in pvp.

But Streak is incomparable to roll dodge. Roll dodge isn't an unblockable stun and doesn't travel a stupidly long distance.

Streak doesnt dodge projectiles and melee atacks

Ball of lightning is more comparable to Roll dodge but Ball of lightning travels a further distance and instantly. The issue with both morphs is the distance traveled vs Roll dodge. Additionally, magsorcs can roll dodge then streak/ball of lightning.

Energy overload isn't a crappy ultimate, it's extremely powerful when used properly as a pressure mechanism.

It doesn't use your entire ult pool and you can toggle it on/off, which leads to a lot of flexibility in its use. You can store up to 20-25 overload attacks at max ult, which is about 200-300k+ damage over a 20-30 second time frame without even accounting for cfrag/force pulse/haunting/fury damage on top of that.

BNOC wrote: »

I ain't finished below a sorc in a BG for about 2 years on Magplar - If you can survive their burst (however you choose to), they don't have much else.

Cast time Ults
The .4s on ults is no drama, I don't know why people fuss on that, I use Dawny in BGs for the group AOE and it's barely noticeable.

Fury
I do quite like your change to Fury as that is a no skill abilitiy - Too many sorcs go into BGs and literally spam that over and over, especially when you're not fighting them.
Same thing happens with noob Templars spamming Radiant praying their team gets you weak as well so we can chalk that up to inexperience and lack of skill on the classes - Would be a potentially good change though.

Dizzy
From a 'cool' perspective, a lot of backpack combos were made worse with the dizzying change - Think Stam Warden, 3 button builds etc; It's not a bad thing that they're gone.
Dizzying is fine as it is there's more than enough reward for pressing that 1 skill over and over, it's still being used by a lot of stam players doing very similar 3 button combos [Dizzy -> Leap -> Executioner, Dizzy -> Berserker -> Executioner] etc which shouldn't be so simple imo.

MMR & Premades
Everyone knows premades ruin BG's when matched against solo players - They are often easily dealt with alone like you said but if they hold each others *** 24/7 it can be tough and they shouldn't be in there with solo players - They should be matched separately, especially when you then get 3 <160CP's on your team but I wouldn't hold your breathe on that.

For MMR to work, it has to exist and have visibility, whether there's a seasonal leaderboard or what doesn't matter, it should at the very least be displayed in your game leaderboard - In my BG's there's always multiple people who I guarantee shouldn't be in there and I really don't understand what got them there in the first place.

Make it visible, match people correctly and figure out a good system to manage it, be that ELO or something else.

MMR should not be based on Wins/Losses because you'll just get people losing games over and over to just smash their way back up (Like dropping down from Div 1 to Div 8 in Fifa to beat all the scrubs 19-0 each game until you're Div 1 again, then repeating)
And although a potentially controversial opinion, I find people that play Objectives hard, are generally quite bad at PvP and will avoid it at almost any cost, some doing < 100k damage in a game that I do 2M for example - There needs to be a balance, maybe a minimum damage output or some kind of algorithm that takes healing/damage and adjusts your MMR gain based on that.

I chucked together an example here https://dotnetfiddle.net/o1jf4B - It's not definitive or even remotely optimal but you get the idea

• The cast time on ults isn't a huge issue in itself - it's the extra survivability it granted to magsorcs when trying to catch/pin down their more-mobile-than-usual-lately selves.
• The difference is, Radiant oppression is an active channel and has a ranged limit/single target. Endless fury functions as a lingering debuff (4 seconds) and can be activated on multiple people (3-4 at a time at most) and then proc'd at hypothetically, 100 meters away from damage that isn't even your own.
• Dizzy swing is a close range ability that requires positioning/aim and a 0.8 second channel. It used to fit perfectly into a stamina's burst damage roles (killing healers/backline people), as opposed to magicka's more attrition-based playstyle. I'll admit it's not completely useless but it makes former combos unviable and slowed down the game.
• The old MMR system was good but it led to a small group of players constantly playing each other, some of them were in that rank by virtue of just playing a lot but weren't necessarily of high caliber. I think it could be improved by lowering the MMR cap to increase the overall pool of players but implement a penalty for placing 3rd OR having low medal scores. It should be invisible as well, to avoid a toxic environment.

Solariken

You stated a lot of the problems very well, but I don't personally agree with all of the proposals.

The big one I do agree with is changing Wrath/Fury to only trigger on the caster's damage. That should have been taken care of before BGs were launched.

3rd party healing is absolutely out of control, but instead of using Battle Spirit, I think they should use Impenetrable. Specifically, Crit Resistance also reduces the value of incoming 3rd party heal crits. This would go a long way toward damage:healing parity and also make other traits a worthwhile consideration for PvP.

As for D-Swing, I say bring the cast time back to 1 second and give it back the stun + knock back ONLY when striking an off-balance target. So you whack 'em once for off balance, whack 'em again for that awesome ragdoll stun, and follow up with an ult or execute or whatever. That's almost 3 whole seconds of counterplay window which is way more than enough! Make D-Swing sexy again @ZOS_Gilliam

BNOC

SoixanteNeuf wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Streak was changed because it works with same mechanic like dodge roll, but there was different cost. While dodge had only +33%, streak had 50%

Matriarch heal was buffed because that pet has little to no damage. There was also increased cost, which you dont mentioned and it takes two slots to use

Overload is crappy ultimate. It isnt worth of it cost. Slow, glowing projectile with minimum travel time which misses most of time in pvp.

But Streak is incomparable to roll dodge. Roll dodge isn't an unblockable stun and doesn't travel a stupidly long distance.

Streak doesnt dodge projectiles and melee atacks

Ball of lightning is more comparable to Roll dodge but Ball of lightning travels a further distance and instantly. The issue with both morphs is the distance traveled vs Roll dodge. Additionally, magsorcs can roll dodge then streak/ball of lightning.

Energy overload isn't a crappy ultimate, it's extremely powerful when used properly as a pressure mechanism.

It doesn't use your entire ult pool and you can toggle it on/off, which leads to a lot of flexibility in its use. You can store up to 20-25 overload attacks at max ult, which is about 200-300k+ damage over a 20-30 second time frame without even accounting for cfrag/force pulse/haunting/fury damage on top of that.

BNOC wrote: »

I ain't finished below a sorc in a BG for about 2 years on Magplar - If you can survive their burst (however you choose to), they don't have much else.

Cast time Ults
The .4s on ults is no drama, I don't know why people fuss on that, I use Dawny in BGs for the group AOE and it's barely noticeable.

Fury
I do quite like your change to Fury as that is a no skill abilitiy - Too many sorcs go into BGs and literally spam that over and over, especially when you're not fighting them.
Same thing happens with noob Templars spamming Radiant praying their team gets you weak as well so we can chalk that up to inexperience and lack of skill on the classes - Would be a potentially good change though.

Dizzy
From a 'cool' perspective, a lot of backpack combos were made worse with the dizzying change - Think Stam Warden, 3 button builds etc; It's not a bad thing that they're gone.
Dizzying is fine as it is there's more than enough reward for pressing that 1 skill over and over, it's still being used by a lot of stam players doing very similar 3 button combos [Dizzy -> Leap -> Executioner, Dizzy -> Berserker -> Executioner] etc which shouldn't be so simple imo.

MMR & Premades
Everyone knows premades ruin BG's when matched against solo players - They are often easily dealt with alone like you said but if they hold each others *** 24/7 it can be tough and they shouldn't be in there with solo players - They should be matched separately, especially when you then get 3 <160CP's on your team but I wouldn't hold your breathe on that.

For MMR to work, it has to exist and have visibility, whether there's a seasonal leaderboard or what doesn't matter, it should at the very least be displayed in your game leaderboard - In my BG's there's always multiple people who I guarantee shouldn't be in there and I really don't understand what got them there in the first place.

Make it visible, match people correctly and figure out a good system to manage it, be that ELO or something else.

MMR should not be based on Wins/Losses because you'll just get people losing games over and over to just smash their way back up (Like dropping down from Div 1 to Div 8 in Fifa to beat all the scrubs 19-0 each game until you're Div 1 again, then repeating)
And although a potentially controversial opinion, I find people that play Objectives hard, are generally quite bad at PvP and will avoid it at almost any cost, some doing < 100k damage in a game that I do 2M for example - There needs to be a balance, maybe a minimum damage output or some kind of algorithm that takes healing/damage and adjusts your MMR gain based on that.

I chucked together an example here https://dotnetfiddle.net/o1jf4B - It's not definitive or even remotely optimal but you get the idea

• The cast time on ults isn't a huge issue in itself - it's the extra survivability it granted to magsorcs when trying to catch/pin down their more-mobile-than-usual-lately selves.
• The difference is, Radiant oppression is an active channel and has a ranged limit/single target. Endless fury functions as a lingering debuff (4 seconds) and can be activated on multiple people (3-4 at a time at most) and then proc'd at hypothetically, 100 meters away from damage that isn't even your own.
• Dizzy swing is a close range ability that requires positioning/aim and a 0.8 second channel. It used to fit perfectly into a stamina's burst damage roles (killing healers/backline people), as opposed to magicka's more attrition-based playstyle. I'll admit it's not completely useless but it makes former combos unviable and slowed down the game.
• The old MMR system was good but it led to a small group of players constantly playing each other, some of them were in that rank by virtue of just playing a lot but weren't necessarily of high caliber. I think it could be improved by lowering the MMR cap to increase the overall pool of players but implement a penalty for placing 3rd OR having low medal scores. It should be invisible as well, to avoid a toxic environment.

• Yeah I'm not saying Radiant and Fury are the same thing, just that they're over used by less skilled players and like I said, the change suggested to make it proc on only the sorcs damage is good imo - Not for a lot of them obviously, but everyone else.
• None of the former combos are nonviable, they really haven't changed all that much except like you said, they're a bit slower; they are still effective by some margin - Besides, there's little wrong with slowing down a 3 button 1-bang combo a tiny amount. If you go duel stamina classes running dizzy, you can guarantee the entire time, that basic combo is all they're trying to do to kill you, and they only need to get lucky on crits once to delete you, it's not something that needs buffed.
• Couldn't disagree more that MMR should be invisible - I don't know what 'toxicity' (hate buzzwords like that) would come from people knowing MMR' but it's a battleground, not a playground. The only 'toxic' players that I see from BG's is good players in a premade that get packed up by 1 or 2 man, even then, it's no big deal, they ideally wouldn't be matched against you solo.

ChunkyCat

not enough memes in here

SoixanteNeuf

Solariken wrote: »

You stated a lot of the problems very well, but I don't personally agree with all of the proposals.

The big one I do agree with is changing Wrath/Fury to only trigger on the caster's damage. That should have been taken care of before BGs were launched.

3rd party healing is absolutely out of control, but instead of using Battle Spirit, I think they should use Impenetrable. Specifically, Crit Resistance also reduces the value of incoming 3rd party heal crits. This would go a long way toward damage:healing parity and also make other traits a worthwhile consideration for PvP.

As for D-Swing, I say bring the cast time back to 1 second and give it back the stun + knock back ONLY when striking an off-balance target. So you whack 'em once for off balance, whack 'em again for that awesome ragdoll stun, and follow up with an ult or execute or whatever. That's almost 3 whole seconds of counterplay window which is way more than enough! Make D-Swing sexy again @ZOS_Gilliam

Those are really good suggestions @Solariken I don't quite agree with the stun + knock back only on off-bal targets because you can achieve the same thing with just holding down light attack for 0.2 secs longer. The initial stun justifies the melee range/channel time/proper positioning required.

Just to clarify, I'm not a magsorc hater - I used to main magsorc back when they weren't overpowered and had counters in bgs(example: stampede snare -> dizzy required a properly timed block before streaking away). Their burst potency wasn't nerfed while the potency of almost every other mag class (except magden) was reduced. I'm familiar with their burst potential (from 2 patches ago) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm94SZqccCI.

Solariken

SoixanteNeuf wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

You stated a lot of the problems very well, but I don't personally agree with all of the proposals.

The big one I do agree with is changing Wrath/Fury to only trigger on the caster's damage. That should have been taken care of before BGs were launched.

3rd party healing is absolutely out of control, but instead of using Battle Spirit, I think they should use Impenetrable. Specifically, Crit Resistance also reduces the value of incoming 3rd party heal crits. This would go a long way toward damage:healing parity and also make other traits a worthwhile consideration for PvP.

As for D-Swing, I say bring the cast time back to 1 second and give it back the stun + knock back ONLY when striking an off-balance target. So you whack 'em once for off balance, whack 'em again for that awesome ragdoll stun, and follow up with an ult or execute or whatever. That's almost 3 whole seconds of counterplay window which is way more than enough! Make D-Swing sexy again @ZOS_Gilliam

Those are really good suggestions @Solariken I don't quite agree with the stun + knock back only on off-bal targets because you can achieve the same thing with just holding down light attack for 0.2 secs longer. The initial stun justifies the melee range/channel time/proper positioning required.

Just to clarify, I'm not a magsorc hater - I used to main magsorc back when they weren't overpowered and had counters in bgs(example: stampede snare -> dizzy required a properly timed block before streaking away). Their burst potency wasn't nerfed while the potency of almost every other mag class (except magden) was reduced. I'm familiar with their burst potential (from 2 patches ago) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm94SZqccCI.

Yeah I've fought you lots of times on your magsorc, I remember how fierce you are with it.

There are probably lots of ways to give D-Swing its old soul back. I just really want the ragdoll stun, it felt so good. I understand why they nerfed it but I'm just trying to help find a middle ground. What about this:

Follow Up (passive):
WITH TWO-HANDED WEAPON EQUIPPED
When you deal damage with a fully-charged Heavy Attack, your next direct damage attack used within 7 seconds stuns the target and deals an additional 10% damage.

Combos well and definitely not OP because 2h heavy attack takes like 12 seconds to wind up. Also gives the option to use any 2h attack as your stun, potentially saving a bar slot.

SoixanteNeuf

BNOC wrote: »

Couldn't disagree more that MMR should be invisible - I don't know what 'toxicity' (hate buzzwords like that) would come from people knowing MMR' but it's a battleground, not a playground. The only 'toxic' players that I see from BG's is good players in a premade that get packed up by 1 or 2 man, even then, it's no big deal, they ideally wouldn't be matched against you solo.

C'mon dude, have you not watched Mursie/Thogard streams Now imagine if they had visible MMR to account for and amplify that with premades being a thing (jk love those guys).

Competitiveness brings out the worst in people (coming from Dota 2) and ESO just doesn't have the infrastructure to support a balanced/environment atm.

@Solariken Yeah, the ragdoll stun/mechanic was fun. I personally don't understand why they nerfed it when it's something that encourages more "skill" via precise targeting/positioning as opposed to players that spam bombard/whirlwind.

That heavy attack thing sounds interesting but I'm personally inclined to disagree with anything that requires more telegraphy than the 0.8 second channel that's already in place.

Rahar

Thinly veiled nerf sorc thread.

I'm on your side about endless fury and 2h needing something else. Reinstating the dswing stun is the wrong move, in my opinion, but it needs something to bring the fun back. For everything else balance related, I feel like there's a fair bit of bias or misattributing going on.

If we split up group and solo queues I almost think queues towards the higher end of the bracket would take unreasonably long. There has to be a better solution.

EDIT: clarification

MincVinyl

Tbh sorcs are fine right now, I could see mages fury being made to work off of the caster's damage, but I would hesitate to do this for fear of another class gearing towards running dots.

Id say for bgs the worst thing is the dot or aoe spam builds that can only play balled up together but practically cant be countered solo. It is really sad when you see players who make every choice towards having no counterplay for simple guaranteed damage. There are too many available build/playstyles now that pretty much run themselves.

If bg ques got split up anymore than they are now im sure we would be back to 10-20 min ques just to get in an empty match. It is a pain to have to take off poisons everytime I get into a low mmr game though.

As for Dswing, i think losing the stun isnt that big of a problem. However at the same time it lost the stun it lost 16% damage and now to get a shittier stun off you have to do a medium/heavy attack giving a third opportunity to avoid the stun while at the same time lowering overall dps due to the medium attack in the rotation. (seems kinda silly to me to lose a stun and 16%+ damage). I would rather have the stun with the 1 sec cast instead.

chrightt

These nerf sorc threads are getting more and more sneaky. Meanwhile I’ve decided to pull out my magDK in BG today for a royal 2.5m damage, double that of 2nd most damage. Jeez, and I’m predicting ZoS will simply not use their brains and follow the forum whiners and buff magDKs. Guess next patch magDKs are the new magplars if ZoS decides to go full retardo.

PhoenixGrey

I think a vast majority of bg players look at the stat sheet and pass judgements on a class

As a sorc main myself who has been having the most fun in BG's this patch I can attest that endless fury should only proc from the caster. Will take the uneccessary heat off the class which is really just a potato farmer at best

Major_Lag

SoixanteNeuf wrote: »

[*] Endless fury should proc only from the caster's damage

Ain't gonna work, as long as it remains an execute ability.

It's not enough to simply require that you do any other damage to the target while they are below the execute threshold - if that were the case, it would still work almost exactly the same as before if you apply any DoT first, for example a weapon poison or even soultrap/entropy.
(same thing already happens with Phoenix set proc for example; it won't normally proc from casting abilities that cost HP, but it will if you have a lingering ravage health debuff active - even if it's self-applied)

What you are proposing, would require completely redoing how Fury works... effectively making it almost a carbon copy of PotL, just with a different animation.
No thanks, we already have way too much ability homogenization FFS.

Kadoin

I must be playing another game again...Hmm.

SoixanteNeuf

Major_Lag wrote: »

SoixanteNeuf wrote: »

[*] Endless fury should proc only from the caster's damage

Ain't gonna work, as long as it remains an execute ability.

It's not enough to simply require that you do any other damage to the target while they are below the execute threshold - if that were the case, it would still work almost exactly the same as before if you apply any DoT first, for example a weapon poison or even soultrap/entropy.
(same thing already happens with Phoenix set proc for example; it won't normally proc from casting abilities that cost HP, but it will if you have a lingering ravage health debuff active - even if it's self-applied)

What you are proposing, would require completely redoing how Fury works... effectively making it almost a carbon copy of PotL, just with a different animation.
No thanks, we already have way too much ability homogenization FFS.

Huh, PotL's damage is based on how much dmg the caster does in X secs. Endless fury is a lingering debuff that explodes when someone drops below the 20% health threshold from any dmg source. They aren't comparable.

mursie

Qbiken wrote: »

Reinstate the powersigil for death match xD

yes - and to make great use of this, we just need a highly mobile class to quickly acquire the buff and utilize amazing insta cast burst and execute to nuke everything in the BG. any ideas?