Tutorial and Story Timeline

Iccotak

The discussion surrounding how to handle tutorials and presenting a story timeline that makes some sense has been brought up by many including myself.
The basis is that introducing a new tutorial every chapter, every year, puts players in the latest content but also doesn't provide direction for the rest of the game. I have run into many players who have no idea where they are supposed to go or what they are supposed to do.
This is an issue because the Base game is still the core of ESO and as a game with an emphasis on story it doesn't give clear directions on what the story is or where to go.
Also pulling players from a beginner experience of one story arc to a different story arc can hurt immersion.

Two of the main ideas I see presented
Coldharbour
1. All characters start with the Coldharbour tutorial and introduction like they did at launch. Alts of course have the option to skip the tutorial and get straight to the game

Choose Your Beginning
2. Give the players an option as to what tutorial they want to start with; Base game, Morrowind, Summerset, Elsweyr, etc.

Here is the problem with both of these ideas, as I have come to learn.

Coldharbour
1. Starting players with Coldharbour doesn't start them with the latest content, some people bought ESO to fight dragons and want to get straight to that part of the game. Putting them right at the beginning story is a bit of a problem because it feels like it's gating the latest content and that goes against player freedom philosophy of One Tamriel.

Choose Your Beginning
2. New players are not going to understand the "Tutorial options", they are going in blind so putting an ever growing list of Chapter tutorial options just doesn't make sense. Especially considering that Summerset is the end of the Daedric War story arc that start with Morrowind, a new player might find themself confused by the disorder of events.

I think I have a compromise

OLD SOLUTION

Zos creates one tutorial that is unrelated to any of the stories. It shows the player the controls, gives basic lore for things like the War & Skyshards, and gives player freedom when it is over.
Perhaps the Player start out as a prisoner in a bandit keep and you are rescued by the Allaince they chose - this gives an Alliance specific storyline.

All of the original tutorials are reworked into introductory Quests - so they are rewritten and overall time is cut down because players already know the controls. They only serve to provide greater context to their respective stories.
When clicking on the fast travel to a chapter zone for the first time with a new character a Vet is given the option to skip the introduction quest of that chapter and get straight to the Zone.

>Chapter Starts<
-Player is approached by a stranger and is captured, killed, and sent to Coldharbour. They get the original cutscene with the prophet because it was Boss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fle96EAHlDg

-The first time your character goes to Vvardenfell, they take the boat that shipwrecks on firemoth isle
-The first time your character follows queen Ayrenns invitation to summerset, you joureny with an NPC group of adventurers and get captured by Sea-Sload magic and end up in the mind trap
-The first time your character goes to Elsweyr, they get caught in a dragon attack and end up rescued by some friendly Khajiit, work to take down the Dragon with the Horn.

Overall, This system gives players choice and agency. They are not pushed into any of the stories. They start with the Alliance they chose and proceed with the story they choose...but for those that want a clear line as to what to do.

Refine the Zone Guide.
Specifically, the Main Quest metric. Just like the build advisor, Players should have a clear guide for the Storyline that they can choose to follow. It should indicate the sequence of the quests, Chronologically. From the Base Game to the DLCs.
This is especially needed now that Dungeon DLCs & Prologue Quests are added to the 'Year Long Storytelling Format'
The Prologue Quests shouldn't be in the Crown store but instead be part of the experience.

Example. At the end of Morrowind you get the prologue for Clockwork and at the end of Clockwork you get the prologue of Summerset.

I think this is a Good Compromise that works best for Everyone. That get a solid introduction that gets them right to the base game with clear freedom to do whatever they want & they get a guide they can choose to follow.

New Solution
Keeping it simple

- new players automatically start in the latest content
- In the main menu - let players choose what tutorial they want to start in
- In the Main menu - let player choose to have all DLC Story triggers On or Off when they start

If they want to change which ones are activated while playing then they can turn them on or off, one by one, under the collections menu
There will be a checkbox besides each Prelude quest, Chapter, and Story zone.
Players can check which ones they want activated.

So if I finish Coldharbour and want to start Orsinium I go to collections -> DLC -> check Orsinium -> click "apply" -> now I will hear "Do you know How Long I've been looking for you?" when I enter the city

logarifmik

Totally agreed. This "fractured but whole" kind of approach must be changed for something more consistent. Even an addition to current guide system as OP describes it could be a satisfactory solution. I doubt, that devs will take a deep breath, admit their mistake made under the influence of capital and will do their best for fixing it. So, some kind of in-game text guide is probably the most radical solution we can count on.

OolongSnakeTea

I think people also forget, that sometimes there are mechanics and mob behaviors that are more complex in the newer zones, compared to the older zones as well- and that the tutorials reflect that in Elswer and Summerset at least. But more importantly, they seem all ezbreezy with CP, but a brand new account, brand new player who doesn't know anything- it means the world of difference in terms of intuitive design and learning the game.

I like this compromise a lot however.

RebornV3x

the best way would be right after character selection have another screen where you can choose which area to start a simple introduction for example:

Coldharbour Start: Start at the beginning of the Elder Scrolls Online story escape Coldharbor, help the Prophet, gain new allies and defeat the Deadric Prince of Schemes Molag Bal and bring an end to the Planemeld once and for all
Then is yellow bolded text: "Recommended for new players to ESO and for those that want a more coherent story experience"

Elsweyr Chapter Start: Hop right into the newest content that ESO has to offer fight dragons and save the Elsweyr from the dreaded Queen Eraxia and take part in the newest Trial Sunspire with 6 new world bosses and delves with 2 new public dungeons with tons of new things to collect and explore...etc
Then is yellow bolded text: " Recommended for returning and current players"

having a better Zone Guide would help I agree with that
alliance shouldn't matter until the first time you enter Cyrodill and then you will have to choose which alliance to play with and should not be apart of character creation to begin with.

Iccotak

@RebornV3x

It is an interesting idea; make both options available and encourage new players to experience the base game.
But those options are a big decision and right at character creation can be a bit much.

Especially when you consider that when we get a new tutorial with the next chapter the player cannot choose the previous content. Their choices are the beginning or only the latest content.

The goal of the compromise is Player freedom & agency - a tutorial that rewards their agency with a story related to the alliance they chose at character creation.
Making alliance something they choose when they enter Cyrodil for the first time seems convoluted especially when considering that the alliance storyline of the base game is tied to race. A player may not necessarily have the option of any race in any faction applied to their account.

With a Tutorial unrelated to any of the story arcs players get a good grasp of the controls a basic understanding of the lore and get right to the game with clear freedom of choice. From there they can choose to head over to the latest content, the beginning, or even content from a year ago.
The Zone guide will inform them on all their choices available.

VaranisArano

I would dearly love a tutorial that explains the basics of gameplay for group content.

The Elsweyr tutorial is the best so far in terms of preparing new players for basic combat mechanics, but it falls short on the basics of DPS:
Rotations
Light Attack Weaving

Its a real shame that players must use outside sources in order to learn how to effectively do DPS in group content, and its one of the reasons why the DPS floor in ESO is so low.

If ZOS can't talk about rotations and light attack weaving in a lore friendly way, then they should consider designing a "Gameplay Tutorial" that doesnt have to fit in the storyline.

logarifmik

VaranisArano wrote: »

If ZOS can't talk about rotations and light attack weaving in a lore friendly way, then they should consider designing a "Gameplay Tutorial" that doesnt have to fit in the storyline.

Sure, lets make any bugs a part of the lore, why not?

Those mechanics are not the first things newcomers want to learn, I mind you. Most of the time they are trying to figure out where the story starts. The opinion based on how frequent such questions in zone and guild chats are.

ghastley

VaranisArano wrote: »

I would dearly love a tutorial that explains the basics of gameplay for group content.

The Elsweyr tutorial is the best so far in terms of preparing new players for basic combat mechanics, but it falls short on the basics of DPS:
Rotations
Light Attack Weaving

Its a real shame that players must use outside sources in order to learn how to effectively do DPS in group content, and its one of the reasons why the DPS floor in ESO is so low.

If ZOS can't talk about rotations and light attack weaving in a lore friendly way, then they should consider designing a "Gameplay Tutorial" that doesnt have to fit in the storyline.

The problem with having rotations and weaving in the tutorial is that the player does not have any skills to rotate or weave with. And why should the tutorial not focus on tanking, or healing, as they're what we're short of?

That said, perhaps the problem is that we only get any tutorial at the start, rather than having training offered each time we get access to a new capability. E.g when you get the second bar, have an NPC teach you about how to decide what goes on which bar, and how, and when, to swap. Perhaps a Trainer NPC in the main cities who will teach major topics on demand, as long as you have the capability to use the new knowledge, so bar-swapping training would require level 15. Or more than one, with weapon (stamina) stuff in the FG, and magicka in the MG. There's already a hint of this in the crafting certification process, but it could be taken further.

VaranisArano

ghastley wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I would dearly love a tutorial that explains the basics of gameplay for group content.

The Elsweyr tutorial is the best so far in terms of preparing new players for basic combat mechanics, but it falls short on the basics of DPS:
Rotations
Light Attack Weaving

Its a real shame that players must use outside sources in order to learn how to effectively do DPS in group content, and its one of the reasons why the DPS floor in ESO is so low.

If ZOS can't talk about rotations and light attack weaving in a lore friendly way, then they should consider designing a "Gameplay Tutorial" that doesnt have to fit in the storyline.

The problem with having rotations and weaving in the tutorial is that the player does not have any skills to rotate or weave with. And why should the tutorial not focus on tanking, or healing, as they're what we're short of?

That said, perhaps the problem is that we only get any tutorial at the start, rather than having training offered each time we get access to a new capability. E.g when you get the second bar, have an NPC teach you about how to decide what goes on which bar, and how, and when, to swap. Perhaps a Trainer NPC in the main cities who will teach major topics on demand, as long as you have the capability to use the new knowledge, so bar-swapping training would require level 15. Or more than one, with weapon (stamina) stuff in the FG, and magicka in the MG. There's already a hint of this in the crafting certification process, but it could be taken further.

Tanking and Healing would be a great thing to include in a "Gameplay Tutorial."

I figure it would be most effective to separate such a tutorial from the beginning story, since those arent necessarily something that new players need to worry about. Basic combat cues are sufficient for questing - not so much for group content. Perhaps it could be part of the Undaunted questline or something that's just accessible at any time.

logarifmik wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

If ZOS can't talk about rotations and light attack weaving in a lore friendly way, then they should consider designing a "Gameplay Tutorial" that doesnt have to fit in the storyline.

Sure, lets make any bugs a part of the lore, why not?

Those mechanics are not the first things newcomers want to learn, I mind you. Most of the time they are trying to figure out where the story starts. The opinion based on how frequent such questions in zone and guild chats are.

Last time it got brought up, it was pointed out that one of the reasons ZOS doesn't talking about LA weaving, which can be practiced as soon as you have one skill, is that its hard to talk about weaving as a mechanic in the middle of your story tutorial. So I'm addressing that.

Mechanics like Light Attack Weaving are already integrated into the game through things like the level up advisor and loading screens, but those are grossly inadequate for how ZOS is using them. With the buffs to LA in Summerset and sets designed around LA stacking, weaving is intended to be an important part of the game...just ZOS is absolutely pants at teaching new players how to do it by the time they want to do Group content where it actually matters. A story-less gameplay tutorial or "boot camp" would work just fine for that purpose.

The "weaving is a bug" thing is laughable at this point. Maybe it was unintended at first, but it's hard to argue with how ZOS has embraced it and deliberately made it a necessary part of end-game play. In that light, they ought to teach players better.

Maybe that teaching doesn't happen right away at the beginning when players have practically no skills, but it needs to happen at some point.

Also, preaching to the choir on the whole story order thing. I wrote my guide on it because I was tired of typing the same thing. Zone guide is a step in the right direction, but still insufficient for the full Story Arcs that encompass more than one zone.

I want a better story tutorial that blends Elsweyr's combat teaching with player choice and a sensible place to start the whole story...and I also want ZOS to figure out how to prepare players for group content without practically forcing players to use outside sources to learn the basics of playing a Damage Dealer. That's a bad way to handle new players. ESO can do better.

Iccotak

Hopefully this solution is still up for discussion seeing as how often I keep seeing people discuss their confusion about where to start

Jayne_Doe

I suppose a generic tutorial could work, as long as it deposits you at the start of whatever chapter is the newest, because otherwise, it would lead to one of the problems you mentioned - new players who buy the chapter want to get into that chapter's content right away, not start off in their alliance after the tutorial.

So, a generic escape from a bandit camp could work, so long as you end up in the new Chapter zone. Otherwise, I don't see any point in creating a new tutorial that just deposits you in your alliance - the Coldharbour tutorial does that already. And, you're free to immediately pursue whatever you want to do afterward.

Iccotak

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

I suppose a generic tutorial could work, as long as it deposits you at the start of whatever chapter is the newest, because otherwise, it would lead to one of the problems you mentioned - new players who buy the chapter want to get into that chapter's content right away, not start off in their alliance after the tutorial.

Then we might as well keep the system as it is and just start in the tutorial of that expansion.
I said some - not all - new players want to start in the latest content . I still encounter players who would prefer to start with the base game rather than running from the expansion to get there.

Like I mentioned ; if ZOS refined the Story/Zone guide then the path to the latest expansion would be made obvious. So being dropped off in the base game ( which the game centers around ) would not be a problem The major point of the proposed compromise is that Players are given Choice & Agency with clear direction without feeling that they being pushed into any of the stories

tomofhyrule

I think the best option would be a 'choose your own start point,' maybe with the "Recommended for..." dialog that was posted above.

I've got VaranisArano's storyline bookmarked, because I'm really into the whole cohesive Elder Scrolls story, so I want to make sure I'm getting it in the right order. Also means I've been checking the UESP to make sure I'm not acidentally doing one of the prologue quests out of order.

And in terms of PvE skills? I'm a total noob there. Everyone's talking about Light Attack weaving and I have no clue what that is. My main is a tank, but I really don't know much about that beyond 'taunt the boss and hold him in place and block OH **** I'M STANDING IN A DOT ZONE!' I'd really like a bit more info on going about this correctly in terms of a tutorial as well. I'm used to playing Elder Scrolls games so I've been leveling all of my attributes, but evidently that's not a good choice here? Ugh, at least I'm getting a free respec at level 43.

Yeah, I'm trying to make sure I can git gud before I even attempt some of the grouping things...particularly since 'fake tanks' are such a problem around here. I'm not fake, I'm just a noob.

Iccotak

@tomofhyrule

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I think the best option would be a 'choose your own start point,' maybe with the "Recommended for..." dialog that was posted above.

I've got VaranisArano's storyline bookmarked, because I'm really into the whole cohesive Elder Scrolls story, so I want to make sure I'm getting it in the right order. Also means I've been checking the UESP to make sure I'm not acidentally doing one of the prologue quests out of order.

This goes to my point in the OP about a better Zone guide so you wouldn't need to do that.

For dungeons - just do beginner level dungeons in the dungeon finder. Better to do it now while leveling so then you have a grasp of it for the higher level stuff. Also dungeons have good gear and are a great way to level
Easier dungeons are at the top of the list in Dungeon Finder.

Tank is simple - your job is to keep the boss still and on you, so for beginners my advice is...

• use heavy armor; 5/7 or 7/7 is a good ratio
• invest all points in health (for now)
• Enchant gear for Stamina & Magic
• Use Sword & Shield / Destruction Staff
• Have skills on your bar that get Enemy attention, the Undaunted skill line has a long range attention skill that is perfect.
• have skills that buff you & de-buff enemies
• Stay in one spot, Hold block and only dodge when necessary
• when the boss isn't hitting you, use heavy attacks to get stamina/magic back
  
  For build guides I recommend Alcast, he covers stuff for both Beginners and Vets:
  https://alcasthq.com/eso-most-recent-builds/
  
  I recommend working on crafting with this character or someone else. Personally I have alot of skill points on my main from quests and skyshards so I invested in crafting with him.
  That said you can do very well just farming sets in the Open World/Dungeons/Trials and you can get alot of gold from that as well. Gold will be useful for ESO guild trade if you want to buy food, enchantments, and other resources.
  
  You can farm good stuff (armors & resources, etc) to sell on trade.
  As a Master Crafter you can make regular income selling items on the market.
  
  Here is the website I use to compare prices to get the best deals: https://tamrieltradecentre.com/

barney2525

It's not a bad idea, but I just don't see the point. They are going to do things they way They want to do things, and only the real hard-core Lore players are going to complain. The majority of the players are just going to go with the flow since we are talking about Intros, which many players just skip anyway.

I don't think its such a big deal that however the Company decides to do it is an issue.

IMHO

tomofhyrule

Iccotak wrote: »

This goes to my point in the OP about a better Zone guide so you wouldn't need to do that.

For dungeons - just do beginner level dungeons in the dungeon finder. Better to do it now while leveling so then you have a grasp of it for the higher level stuff. Also dungeons have good gear and are a great way to level
Easier dungeons are at the top of the list in Dungeon Finder.

Tank is simple - your job is to keep the boss still and on you, so for beginners my advice is...

• use heavy armor; 5/7 or 7/7 is a good ratio
• invest all points in health (for now)
• Enchant gear for Stamina & Magic
• Use Sword & Shield / Destruction Staff
• Have skills on your bar that get Enemy attention, the Undaunted skill line has a long range attention skill that is perfect.
• have skills that buff you & de-buff enemies
• Stay in one spot, Hold block and only dodge when necessary
• when the boss isn't hitting you, use heavy attacks to get stamina/magic back
  
  For build guides I recommend Alcast, he covers stuff for both Beginners and Vets:
  https://alcasthq.com/eso-most-recent-builds/
  
  I recommend working on crafting with this character or someone else. Personally I have alot of skill points on my main from quests and skyshards so I invested in crafting with him.
  That said you can do very well just farming sets in the Open World/Dungeons/Trials and you can get alot of gold from that as well. Gold will be useful for ESO guild trade if you want to buy food, enchantments, and other resources.
  
  You can farm good stuff (armors & resources, etc) to sell on trade.
  As a Master Crafter you can make regular income selling items on the market.
  
  Here is the website I use to compare prices to get the best deals: https://tamrieltradecentre.com/

Thanks for the info, this is really helpful.

Yeah, right now I've got a DK sword-and-board on both bars, and he's also my crafter. I'm still running through the MQ now and trying to complete mostly all of the Zone stuff as I go, so as a result I'm up to around level 35 and I barely just got to Mournhold. I'm trying to see if I can hammer out the story before I go hardcore into the PvE stuff, but I'm the one who walks everywhere instead of runs and takes the time to read all of the lore, so it could take me a while

Seraphayel

I really really wish they would do this.

Starting this game as a newbie is a mess, especially with the Chapters. You basically have no clue about the two most important storylines (Planemeld & Three Banner War) when you play more than just the basic version of ESO.

What you suggest is great, new players should be introduced to the

1. Three Banner War
2. Planemeld / Molag Bal storyline
3. Chapter storyline

1 & 2 can be switched or melted into one where your faction rescues you after fleeing Coldharbour.

This should have been done 3 years ago yet they just throw these new tutorials into the game which make absolutely no sense.

Iccotak

Still the best opening in ESO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fle96EAHlDg

TheShadowScout

Iccotak wrote: »

Still the best opening in ESO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fle96EAHlDg

...and the one that makes the most sense for our respawnings!

Personally... I wish they would start -everyone- with the coldharbour tutorial... but when you finish that one, give you a choice where to plop out of coldharbour back to tamriel, either classic mainstory (starter isles) or... skip that for now and go smack into one of the new regions (and start with those tutorials to get the setting for that story...).

I also would love it if they locked all the DLC/Expansion story starters until people got to that point... so sturga would only start looking for you after you kick Molag in his Bal, the craglorn cart would only appear at the same time, the Morrowind prequel courier would only start showing up at every corner after completing orsinium, the CWC intro letter pop up only after Morrowind, the summerset intro would only start after CWC, et cetera... BUT let everyone have the option to -manually- start those questings before their "proper" time if they so choose in the collections menu.

It would make for a much better story-flow. I mean, what are the ones who start with Elsweyr gonna think when they play through that, and only -after- play the prequel that let loose the dragons in the first place???

Tandor

VaranisArano wrote: »

I would dearly love a tutorial that explains the basics of gameplay for group content.

The Elsweyr tutorial is the best so far in terms of preparing new players for basic combat mechanics, but it falls short on the basics of DPS:
Rotations
Light Attack Weaving

Its a real shame that players must use outside sources in order to learn how to effectively do DPS in group content, and its one of the reasons why the DPS floor in ESO is so low.

If ZOS can't talk about rotations and light attack weaving in a lore friendly way, then they should consider designing a "Gameplay Tutorial" that doesnt have to fit in the storyline.

Fine, but players don't need a grouping tutorial at character creation. It would add to the confusion and give the wrong impression that it's a group-centred game. Tutorials in games need to be very, very basic otherwise players are swamped with information in one go when they will be better off getting into the game and learning the finer points as they go. Maybe there's a case for things like rotations and light attack weaving to be incorporated into a quest at say level 10 or 20, but it's wholly unnecessary at level 1.

VaranisArano

Tandor wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I would dearly love a tutorial that explains the basics of gameplay for group content.

The Elsweyr tutorial is the best so far in terms of preparing new players for basic combat mechanics, but it falls short on the basics of DPS:
Rotations
Light Attack Weaving

Its a real shame that players must use outside sources in order to learn how to effectively do DPS in group content, and its one of the reasons why the DPS floor in ESO is so low.

If ZOS can't talk about rotations and light attack weaving in a lore friendly way, then they should consider designing a "Gameplay Tutorial" that doesnt have to fit in the storyline.

Fine, but players don't need a grouping tutorial at character creation. It would add to the confusion and give the wrong impression that it's a group-centred game. Tutorials in games need to be very, very basic otherwise players are swamped with information in one go when they will be better off getting into the game and learning the finer points as they go. Maybe there's a case for things like rotations and light attack weaving to be incorporated into a quest at say level 10 or 20, but it's wholly unnecessary at level 1.

A tutorial that becomes available at level 10 when the groupfinder opens up would work perfectly well. Or simply a tutorial that you complete before you run a group dungeon, whatever level that is.

Part of the problem is that ZOS does lean very heavily on the side of "Let's get players invested in the story + basic, basic gameplay knowledge right away" and never teaches the intermediate steps required for group content like DPS rotations or light attack weaving. Those are just forgotten about, forcing players to rely on outside sources. The level up advisor tip and skills advisor are woefully inadequate to explaining how to play roles in group content, particularly the basics of dealing damage.

ZOS teaches the bare basics in their tutorial.
I'd like them to look at how they can teach the intermediate techniques needed to succeed at anything more difficult than overland content, particularly when 2 out of the 4 content releases a year are difficult DLC dungeons. I don't particularly care when they teach those techniques - I would like to see them commit to actually teaching the basics of group content in game.

redgreensunset

VaranisArano wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I would dearly love a tutorial that explains the basics of gameplay for group content.

The Elsweyr tutorial is the best so far in terms of preparing new players for basic combat mechanics, but it falls short on the basics of DPS:
Rotations
Light Attack Weaving

Its a real shame that players must use outside sources in order to learn how to effectively do DPS in group content, and its one of the reasons why the DPS floor in ESO is so low.

If ZOS can't talk about rotations and light attack weaving in a lore friendly way, then they should consider designing a "Gameplay Tutorial" that doesnt have to fit in the storyline.

Fine, but players don't need a grouping tutorial at character creation. It would add to the confusion and give the wrong impression that it's a group-centred game. Tutorials in games need to be very, very basic otherwise players are swamped with information in one go when they will be better off getting into the game and learning the finer points as they go. Maybe there's a case for things like rotations and light attack weaving to be incorporated into a quest at say level 10 or 20, but it's wholly unnecessary at level 1.

A tutorial that becomes available at level 10 when the groupfinder opens up would work perfectly well. Or simply a tutorial that you complete before you run a group dungeon, whatever level that is.

Part of the problem is that ZOS does lean very heavily on the side of "Let's get players invested in the story + basic, basic gameplay knowledge right away" and never teaches the intermediate steps required for group content like DPS rotations or light attack weaving. Those are just forgotten about, forcing players to rely on outside sources. The level up advisor tip and skills advisor are woefully inadequate to explaining how to play roles in group content, particularly the basics of dealing damage.

ZOS teaches the bare basics in their tutorial.
I'd like them to look at how they can teach the intermediate techniques needed to succeed at anything more difficult than overland content, particularly when 2 out of the 4 content releases a year are difficult DLC dungeons. I don't particularly care when they teach those techniques - I would like to see them commit to actually teaching the basics of group content in game.

As long as that tutorial is optional and not required for completing a dungeon, fine and dandy. For one thing neither healers nor tanks have any use for LA or rotations. What's more, some of us can't for the life of us get the hang of LA, it's why my "dungeon runner" is a healer unless we're only running normal. And you can all preach and condescend to me about how everyone can do that, the answer from me is no. I can't. I've tried for months, but my arthritic hands can't do it. Not without suffering severe pain, sorry.

VaranisArano

redgreensunset wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I would dearly love a tutorial that explains the basics of gameplay for group content.

The Elsweyr tutorial is the best so far in terms of preparing new players for basic combat mechanics, but it falls short on the basics of DPS:
Rotations
Light Attack Weaving

Its a real shame that players must use outside sources in order to learn how to effectively do DPS in group content, and its one of the reasons why the DPS floor in ESO is so low.

If ZOS can't talk about rotations and light attack weaving in a lore friendly way, then they should consider designing a "Gameplay Tutorial" that doesnt have to fit in the storyline.

Fine, but players don't need a grouping tutorial at character creation. It would add to the confusion and give the wrong impression that it's a group-centred game. Tutorials in games need to be very, very basic otherwise players are swamped with information in one go when they will be better off getting into the game and learning the finer points as they go. Maybe there's a case for things like rotations and light attack weaving to be incorporated into a quest at say level 10 or 20, but it's wholly unnecessary at level 1.

A tutorial that becomes available at level 10 when the groupfinder opens up would work perfectly well. Or simply a tutorial that you complete before you run a group dungeon, whatever level that is.

Part of the problem is that ZOS does lean very heavily on the side of "Let's get players invested in the story + basic, basic gameplay knowledge right away" and never teaches the intermediate steps required for group content like DPS rotations or light attack weaving. Those are just forgotten about, forcing players to rely on outside sources. The level up advisor tip and skills advisor are woefully inadequate to explaining how to play roles in group content, particularly the basics of dealing damage.

ZOS teaches the bare basics in their tutorial.
I'd like them to look at how they can teach the intermediate techniques needed to succeed at anything more difficult than overland content, particularly when 2 out of the 4 content releases a year are difficult DLC dungeons. I don't particularly care when they teach those techniques - I would like to see them commit to actually teaching the basics of group content in game.

As long as that tutorial is optional and not required for completing a dungeon, fine and dandy. For one thing neither healers nor tanks have any use for LA or rotations. What's more, some of us can't for the life of us get the hang of LA, it's why my "dungeon runner" is a healer unless we're only running normal. And you can all preach and condescend to me about how everyone can do that, the answer from me is no. I can't. I've tried for months, but my arthritic hands can't do it. Not without suffering severe pain, sorry.

Wasn't planning on being preaching or condescending. ZOS gives experienced players the option to skip existing tutorials, so I don't imagine they'd require current players to do any new tutorials for roles they've presumably already been doing for a while or tutorials for roles they aren't interested in.

There's a whole lot of things that would presumably go into actually setting up a tutorial, including the ability of players to go "Look, I just want to play a healer. I don't care how damage dealing works."

But at least then that information would be present in-game instead of requiring interested players to use outside sources. It sounds like you've mostly stuck to healing, which is fine. I remember being dreadfully confused about how to DPS when I swapped from tanking to trying to deal damage. ESO did not and still does not effectively teach the basics of that role.

Iccotak

Ok even simpler solution

new players automatically start in the latest content
In the main menu - let players choose what tutorial they want to start in
In the Main menu - let player choose to have all DLC Story triggers On or Off when they start

If they choose Off they can turn them on one by one under the collections menu
There will be a checkbox besides each Prelude, Chapter, and Story zone.
Players can check which ones they want activated.

So if I finish Coldharbour and want to start Orsinium I go to collections -> DLC -> check Orsinium -> click "apply" -> now I will hear "Do you know How Long I've been looking for you?" when I enter the city

Beardimus

Every toon I make I start in base game. The others just make no sense.

A simple question of - do you want to play base game first,

Or start in a particular chapter 2, 3, 4 etc (i.e. Skyrim fans coming new into the game this year etc)

FierceSam

There are 2 issues here.

The first is that ESO tutorials are long on story and short on actually teaching. They need to be drastically improved to provide players with something that is effective. You will learn more about how to play and how combat works from a YouTube video than from any of the tutorials provided in game. The actual teaching of fight mechanics should be something that players can return to whenever they wish rather than the ‘one and done’ experience they now have.

Second, while I think some players would find a chronological story pointer useful (which is a good reason for doing something to show players that route), I suspect most new players who come to the game aren’t coming for the 3 banners war. Or Molag Bal. Or the story of the Vestige. They’re coming to kill dragons, or very shortly, to play online Skyrim. Anything that delays this, like other players suggesting they might need to play through months of old content, won’t go down well.

ZOS aren’t stupid. If they’re selling us dragons, they’re going to give us dragons (albeit kludgy messed up dragons for the first 6 months) and base all their success criteria on dragon killing. If they’re flogging Skyrim, that’s where you’ll be going. They’re not going to expend a lot of effort diverting players to other content. It would be like saying no one should be able to play ESO 6 until they’ve finished ESOs 1-5. And that’s not what most new players want.

Iccotak

@FierceSam
While I agree that tutorials need improved mechanics to better teach new players if you read the rest of the OP you'll see that in the "New Solution" section I said: "new players automatically start in the latest content"

so then players who are joining for what ZOS advertises get just that.
The solution presented is more for long term players ability to customize their player character story experience

redlink1979

I get the Zeni's marketing strategy but everything makes more sense if you start in Coldharbour.

FierceSam

Iccotak wrote: »

@FierceSam
While I agree that tutorials need improved mechanics to better teach new players if you read the rest of the OP you'll see that in the "New Solution" section I said: "new players automatically start in the latest content"

so then players who are joining for what ZOS advertises get just that.
The solution presented is more for long term players ability to customize their player character story experience

If it’s for players creating alts who wish to play them through the story chronologically, then I imagine it would be possible to add this in the dialogue immediately after character creation where you’re asked if you want to skip the tutorial or not. That way it would be both immediate and unobtrusive and absolutely the player’s choice. But from ZOS’s perspective, they really need to funnel players into the new content to generate numbers that encourage further development investment. Cos the money is saying “you spent $X on creating dragons... how many did the players kill?”, not “how many players are still playing that part of the game we haven’t spent cash on for years?”.

The other storylines do now work the way you mention in the Stories part of your Collections tab. So for Orsinium, there’s a bit of blurb and a picture and a link to either buy the DLC or start playing the story. Of course this doesn’t prevent Stuga from dive bombing you every time you step out of a Weyshrine in a starter city, which I suspect many players would like to prevent.