More skills need to scale to max hp

ForzaRammer

I personally believe the fact more than half the healing skills scale to offensive stat rather than receiver’s health is bad. Player with crazy healing or damage shields can still do a crap ton of damage, players with more health oftentimes don’t even become more tanky.

On top of that, i think pve tank can use a little more self heal with all the sustain nerfs. So here is my suggestion on how to make healing in game more balanced.

Skills i think should scale to max hp of the receiver: warden tree, dk cinder storm, nightblade refreshing path, necromancer spirit mender, sorc dark exchange, templar healing ult + extended ritual. I believe regeneration and steadfast ward should scale to health too.

SenpaiNFT

No, no, no, no, no, hell no, hell no, and are you a smoof?

TriangularChicken

tldr: I dont want to manage my resources, I'd rather be carried by stacking high HP.


" healing more balanced by making it scale with max health" - ok that sounds VERY balanced /s

Moonsorrow

No thanks.

Vildebill

It sounds like the healtankbot meta would be even more real with a change like this. So my answer is clear:

Luckylancer

So you want defensive stat to scale defendive stat do you wont die ever again? What about no?

Nemesis7884

honestly, i think more and more that the current resource and skill system is such a mess that zos should think about completely overhauling and redesigning it from the ground up

Huyen

Dont say no to quickly.

I for one would think it would be good if puncture for example would scale its damage with max health instead of stamina. That way while solo a tank would be capable to run overland content. It would be a good step into solving the extinction of tanks.

phaneub17_ESO

Give every skill 4 possible morphs for each role one for tank, another for healing, one for stamina damage, and one for magicka damage. It would be a balancing nightmare, but would be awesome. Variety keeps us all guessing.

Kel

Huyen wrote: »

Dont say no to quickly.

I for one would think it would be good if puncture for example would scale its damage with max health instead of stamina. That way while solo a tank would be capable to run overland content. It would be a good step into solving the extinction of tanks.

No. And I'm saying that quickly.

You can't just think of PvE in this game. Change has to be considered for PvP as well, and after all these years I cannot for the life of me understand why this community can't grasp this...Zos does not separate PvE from PvP no matter how much we think or wish they should. No matter how you personally feel, you have to look at both sides when suggesting skill changes.

Those of us saying no understand a PvP player stacking 80k health or more would be doing ridiculous damage.

Tanks in PvE are not becoming extinct because they don't do damage, it's because they're expected to learn every mechanic in game and get blamed for every stupid one shot death or a player standing where they shouldn't be. It's a role very open to player abuse and people are far too quick to play the blame game instead of taking personal responsibility.
Not to mention this is one of the only games without a AoE taunt, so when your group pulls an entire room, the tank has to individually taunt every add plus the boss, and again, gets blamed if aggro gets pulled from one or two.
It's alot to take when most players want to have fun instead of getting *** on by sweaty tryhards who can't admit when they f'up, but want to blame everyone else around them.

That's why tanking is dying. Because you groan when a tank is new. We don't encourage new tanks, we quit on them. Has zero to do with damage output.

MartiniDaniels

No. Though you are right that stacking of WD for stamina and maxmagicka for magicka have weird effect where in first case you receive damage+healing and in second case damage+healing+sustain. Given how everybody is so sturdy in PVP and healing mostly not mandatory in PVE other then in specific raid heal checks.. ZOS may consider reducing increase of healing from SD/WD and reducing damage+healing from stacking max resource.

So far you are right, stacking WD is benefical, stacking max magicka is even more benefical, and stacking max HP is mostly pointless outside of troll builds.

Nemesis7884

Huyen wrote: »

Dont say no to quickly.

I for one would think it would be good if puncture for example would scale its damage with max health instead of stamina. That way while solo a tank would be capable to run overland content. It would be a good step into solving the extinction of tanks.

problem is you have to look at everything in the context of pvp...

MajBludd

No

Anyron

this is really good idea!

tanks are issue in pvp, so lets them become even more unkillable.

hasi

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Given how everybody is so sturdy in PVP and healing mostly not mandatory in PVE other then in specific raid heal checks.. ZOS may consider reducing increase of healing from SD/WD and reducing damage+healing from stacking max resource.

Exactly. Healing is mandatory in specific Raid Heal Checks.
With the latest Nerfs to certain Healing, it gets very rough at some points for decent Healers, mainly speaking for Console here.

So let's nerf the possible healing output even more duo to decreasing healing scaling from Damage and Max Ressource Stats, making the decent Healers partly struggle and rely on the Group to heal themselves aswell even more & making the Healer Role even harder and less popular for newer Players.🙃

Sounds good!

Wolfchild07

Skills shouldn't scale AS MUCH from resources as they do. Yes, they should still scale from resources to prevent hybrid meta, but it shouldn't be as much as it is now. That way you choose to go hybrid or put it all in one basket.

Amoureros

I would love more health based skills. Especially with sorcerer

MartiniDaniels

hasi wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Given how everybody is so sturdy in PVP and healing mostly not mandatory in PVE other then in specific raid heal checks.. ZOS may consider reducing increase of healing from SD/WD and reducing damage+healing from stacking max resource.

Exactly. Healing is mandatory in specific Raid Heal Checks.
With the latest Nerfs to certain Healing, it gets very rough at some points for decent Healers, mainly speaking for Console here.

So let's nerf the possible healing output even more duo to decreasing healing scaling from Damage and Max Ressource Stats, making the decent Healers partly struggle and rely on the Group to heal themselves aswell even more & making the Healer Role even harder and less popular for newer Players.🙃

Sounds good!

Everybody knows healing is overperforming in PVP right now. For PVE there are tons of undiscovered ways to increase healing output which nobody uses because absolutely everything is dedicated to increasing group dps. I'm not calling for nerfs, I just mean OP is right in terms that stacking of different things in ESO doesn't bring comparable results. Basically you need to stack max magicka or weapon damage, everything else has diminishing returns.

Kadoin

No. What you want is not a PvE buff, but a buff to the ball group you run with in PvP.

Nice try.

Kadoin

Huyen wrote: »

Dont say no to quickly.

I for one would think it would be good if puncture for example would scale its damage with max health instead of stamina. That way while solo a tank would be capable to run overland content. It would be a good step into solving the extinction of tanks.

Wow, being a tank myself and even using a low level tank with no CP right now, I can definitely say damage output is not the problem but those sustain changes they made to balance CP and PvP are.

In fact, every patch on live I raise a tank with no CP from 1-CP160+ and don't use CP to see exactly what players in the roles face. I only use gear that I obtain naturally - no crafted sets.

Want to know my conclusion? Sustain changes over time suck, and the last patch would make anyone an idiot to run a tank at low level unless they like burning their resources every 6-8 seconds and/or using skills every 5 seconds.

ZOS wanted to target the end-gamers, but instead of touching CP and problematic sets they touched the classes and took a bite out of the low level players learning dungeons. I have no doubt that the changes are overall negative for low-level players, esp. tanks, and that they are contributing to less and less tanks being available and/or players.

AcadianPaladin

Huyen wrote: »

Dont say no to quickly.

I for one would think it would be good if puncture for example would scale its damage with max health instead of stamina. That way while solo a tank would be capable to run overland content. It would be a good step into solving the extinction of tanks.

@Huyen I agree 100% with this. And I admit it is another reason why the 5 year failed policy of trying balance PvE and PvP together is indeed a fail.

My PvE healer can do her job and still comfortably solo overland questing without changing gear. Therefore she is fun. My PvE tank can say nothing of the sort. 5k dps is not fun solo; changing gear is even less fun. Not saying it can't be done, saying I don't enjoy tanking because of the super low dps. Puncture scaling damage to health would be plenty of boost to make solo overland fun (10k dps is plenty) without changing gear.

ForzaRammer

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

No. Though you are right that stacking of WD for stamina and maxmagicka for magicka have weird effect where in first case you receive damage+healing and in second case damage+healing+sustain. Given how everybody is so sturdy in PVP and healing mostly not mandatory in PVE other then in specific raid heal checks.. ZOS may consider reducing increase of healing from SD/WD and reducing damage+healing from stacking max resource.

So far you are right, stacking WD is benefical, stacking max magicka is even more benefical, and stacking max HP is mostly pointless outside of troll builds.

My idea is nerfing the healing for players with high offensive stat and low hp.

ForzaRammer

Kadoin wrote: »

No. What you want is not a PvE buff, but a buff to the ball group you run with in PvP.

Nice try.

I don’t even play in a ball group. And ball group hardly get a buff, except the couple meat shields.

ForzaRammer

Kel wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Dont say no to quickly.

I for one would think it would be good if puncture for example would scale its damage with max health instead of stamina. That way while solo a tank would be capable to run overland content. It would be a good step into solving the extinction of tanks.

No. And I'm saying that quickly.

You can't just think of PvE in this game. Change has to be considered for PvP as well, and after all these years I cannot for the life of me understand why this community can't grasp this...Zos does not separate PvE from PvP no matter how much we think or wish they should. No matter how you personally feel, you have to look at both sides when suggesting skill changes.

Those of us saying no understand a PvP player stacking 80k health or more would be doing ridiculous damage.

Tanks in PvE are not becoming extinct because they don't do damage, it's because they're expected to learn every mechanic in game and get blamed for every stupid one shot death or a player standing where they shouldn't be. It's a role very open to player abuse and people are far too quick to play the blame game instead of taking personal responsibility.
Not to mention this is one of the only games without a AoE taunt, so when your group pulls an entire room, the tank has to individually taunt every add plus the boss, and again, gets blamed if aggro gets pulled from one or two.
It's alot to take when most players want to have fun instead of getting *** on by sweaty tryhards who can't admit when they f'up, but want to blame everyone else around them.

That's why tanking is dying. Because you groan when a tank is new. We don't encourage new tanks, we quit on them. Has zero to do with damage output.

I didn’t suggest damage scale to max health though, i only suggested healing and shields

JamilaRaj

TriangularChicken wrote: »

tldr: I dont want to manage my resources, I'd rather be carried by stacking high HP.


" healing more balanced by making it scale with max health" - ok that sounds VERY balanced /s

What is here to manage? If you dump everything to spell damage + magicka (or weapon damage + stamina), you get a) high damage, b) strong heals and c) good sustain too, because per unit of resource, your attacks/heals/shields are very efficient.
For the same reason, stacking regen at expense of damage is a dubious choice, because to heal the same amount, you would have to spend more resources to use a skill multiple times in a row, nevermind that that would also take more time to do, which makes that amount of damage/heal markedly less useful than the same amount over shorter period of time.

Kel

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Dont say no to quickly.

I for one would think it would be good if puncture for example would scale its damage with max health instead of stamina. That way while solo a tank would be capable to run overland content. It would be a good step into solving the extinction of tanks.

No. And I'm saying that quickly.

You can't just think of PvE in this game. Change has to be considered for PvP as well, and after all these years I cannot for the life of me understand why this community can't grasp this...Zos does not separate PvE from PvP no matter how much we think or wish they should. No matter how you personally feel, you have to look at both sides when suggesting skill changes.

Those of us saying no understand a PvP player stacking 80k health or more would be doing ridiculous damage.

Tanks in PvE are not becoming extinct because they don't do damage, it's because they're expected to learn every mechanic in game and get blamed for every stupid one shot death or a player standing where they shouldn't be. It's a role very open to player abuse and people are far too quick to play the blame game instead of taking personal responsibility.
Not to mention this is one of the only games without a AoE taunt, so when your group pulls an entire room, the tank has to individually taunt every add plus the boss, and again, gets blamed if aggro gets pulled from one or two.
It's alot to take when most players want to have fun instead of getting *** on by sweaty tryhards who can't admit when they f'up, but want to blame everyone else around them.

That's why tanking is dying. Because you groan when a tank is new. We don't encourage new tanks, we quit on them. Has zero to do with damage output.

I didn’t suggest damage scale to max health though, i only suggested healing and shields

My response wasn't to you, but the person I quoted.

OG_Kaveman

On top of that, i think pve tank can use a little more self heal with all the sustain nerfs.

Every class but templars have an in class percentage based heal. They all are pretty good-

the clannfear it is a 30% of your health, all the time, that can crit AND the clannfear gives you 8% more health AND is invulnerable in pve group content.


Green Dragon Blood heals for 33% of your MISSING health, meaning that to get the same 30% sorcs have on demand, they have to have almost zero health, like only 3% health. increase healing recived by 12% adn health reveroy by 5% while its on your active bar.


Hungry Scythe is 15% of your max health followed by 6% ticks for every enemy after the first one up to 6, you need to hit something to get a heal and you need to hit at least FOUR enemies (15+6+6+6= 33, up to 45% with six enemies max) to get the amount of healing that sorcs get and you need to wait for the ticks after the initial burst.

Dark Cloak
4% ticks of health for 8 seconds, gives minor protection, 32% total. procs major ward and resolve for you. 3% health.

Polar Wind one tick of 26% followed by 5 ticks of 3% every second. total 41%. Increases your Physical and Spell Resistance by 500 while on your bar. heal an ally with in 12 meters of your for the initial 26% as well.

Invigorating Drain gives 3 ticks of 15%, with 5 ulti, over 3 seconds, for a max of 45% and 15 ulti. Accelerating Drain give 4 ticks of 15% over the same 3 seconds, leading to 60% heal and you get minor expedition, also both need a target to heal.


templars do not have percentage based health heal. if a tank did use Rushed Ceremony. the heal would be kinda meh. át tank level stats, like 20k mag 36k health and 21k stam, you would get around 20% of your health as a heal from Honor The Dead, of course this is not guaranteed to hit you.

Anyron

Huyen wrote: »

Dont say no to quickly.

I for one would think it would be good if puncture for example would scale its damage with max health instead of stamina. That way while solo a tank would be capable to run overland content. It would be a good step into solving the extinction of tanks.

if overland content is issue for you , you should quit this game.

overland content can be done even without equip. worldbosses are something different - thats another category

ForzaRammer

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

On top of that, i think pve tank can use a little more self heal with all the sustain nerfs.

Every class but templars have an in class percentage based heal. They all are pretty good-

the clannfear it is a 30% of your health, all the time, that can crit AND the clannfear gives you 8% more health AND is invulnerable in pve group content.


Green Dragon Blood heals for 33% of your MISSING health, meaning that to get the same 30% sorcs have on demand, they have to have almost zero health, like only 3% health. increase healing recived by 12% adn health reveroy by 5% while its on your active bar.


Hungry Scythe is 15% of your max health followed by 6% ticks for every enemy after the first one up to 6, you need to hit something to get a heal and you need to hit at least FOUR enemies (15+6+6+6= 33, up to 45% with six enemies max) to get the amount of healing that sorcs get and you need to wait for the ticks after the initial burst.

Dark Cloak
4% ticks of health for 8 seconds, gives minor protection, 32% total. procs major ward and resolve for you. 3% health.

Polar Wind one tick of 26% followed by 5 ticks of 3% every second. total 41%. Increases your Physical and Spell Resistance by 500 while on your bar. heal an ally with in 12 meters of your for the initial 26% as well.

Invigorating Drain gives 3 ticks of 15%, with 5 ulti, over 3 seconds, for a max of 45% and 15 ulti. Accelerating Drain give 4 ticks of 15% over the same 3 seconds, leading to 60% heal and you get minor expedition, also both need a target to heal.


templars do not have percentage based health heal. if a tank did use Rushed Ceremony. the heal would be kinda meh. át tank level stats, like 20k mag 36k health and 21k stam, you would get around 20% of your health as a heal from Honor The Dead, of course this is not guaranteed to hit you.

i know these scale to max hp, i just hope for more, 1 is not enough in my opinion

ForzaRammer

Kel wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Dont say no to quickly.

I for one would think it would be good if puncture for example would scale its damage with max health instead of stamina. That way while solo a tank would be capable to run overland content. It would be a good step into solving the extinction of tanks.

No. And I'm saying that quickly.

You can't just think of PvE in this game. Change has to be considered for PvP as well, and after all these years I cannot for the life of me understand why this community can't grasp this...Zos does not separate PvE from PvP no matter how much we think or wish they should. No matter how you personally feel, you have to look at both sides when suggesting skill changes.

Those of us saying no understand a PvP player stacking 80k health or more would be doing ridiculous damage.

Tanks in PvE are not becoming extinct because they don't do damage, it's because they're expected to learn every mechanic in game and get blamed for every stupid one shot death or a player standing where they shouldn't be. It's a role very open to player abuse and people are far too quick to play the blame game instead of taking personal responsibility.
Not to mention this is one of the only games without a AoE taunt, so when your group pulls an entire room, the tank has to individually taunt every add plus the boss, and again, gets blamed if aggro gets pulled from one or two.
It's alot to take when most players want to have fun instead of getting *** on by sweaty tryhards who can't admit when they f'up, but want to blame everyone else around them.

That's why tanking is dying. Because you groan when a tank is new. We don't encourage new tanks, we quit on them. Has zero to do with damage output.

I didn’t suggest damage scale to max health though, i only suggested healing and shields

My response wasn't to you, but the person I quoted.

m b

OG_Kaveman

. i know these scale to max hp, i just hope for more, 1 is not enough in my opinion

Technically, every class but templars have access to 2, their class heal + drain.

I was also thinking that there are also wards that scale with health too, of which templars have the highest possible scaling one, radiant ward, which can scale from a base of 30% to a max value of 46% of your health in ward size, if you have 6 mobs near you.