Morally Good Necromancer?

xGhost91x

So, just out of curiosity, do any of you Necro players give your character a reason as to why they would be doing quests and helping people? Historically, necromancers have always been pretty deplorable characters. Why would they decide to help others?

idk

A morally good necromancer would let the dead continue to rest.

xGhost91x

idk wrote: »

A morally good necromancer would let the dead continue to rest.

I mean, you're not wrong lol. I was just curious as to whether anyone had any lore justifications for a necromancer helping people in need through questing.

idk

xGhost91x wrote: »

idk wrote: »

A morally good necromancer would let the dead continue to rest.

I mean, you're not wrong lol. I was just curious as to whether anyone had any lore justifications for a necromancer helping people in need through questing.

I would say no and it is why necromancers were not added earlier. The Warden was worked on by Zos early on, maybe before the game launched. iirc, information about the Warden was mined in the game for years but I do not recall hearing the necro was found in the game early on.

Of all the stories in the base game I do not recall any stories of nice necromancers yet we have stories of good WWs and vamps.

Araneae6537

There’s Vastarie. She was part of the inspiration for my necromancer who doesn’t actually create undead. To fit with my understanding of Elder Scrolls lore, he uses magicka and manipulates “life energies” or so to attack foes and heal allies and studies necromancy to combat it, but he doesn’t enslave souls to create undead beings.

Dojohoda

In this game one must kill a lot to help a person with a problem. With that thought, instead of the necro being helpful, the necro is building up his army, after all, he is probably a psychopath who needs the gold.

My necro has not done any quests yet. He's still a lowbie who loots and kills any npcs within shouting distance of a stable.

Zacuel

I just refuse to slot any necromantic skills so I can brag about my conviction.

mague

Mine is an ex-necro. Never used any illegal spells so far.

Ye_Olde_Crowe

My Argonian lost a friend in a traumatizing manner and learned necromancy to commune with her lost loved one ... then found out that necromancy was more about pushing bones and less talking to ghosts. Now she is researching eternal life so she might prevent bad things happening.
She is not evil, definitely not, and she will do whatever it takes to help others, pushing bones included.

My Bosmer necro, on the other hand, is all about efficiency and doesn't care about morals. My final - and Breton - necro, on the other hand, is just in it for the giggles.

LukosCreyden

Anyone who wants to play the "necromancy is inherently immoral" card would also have to stop using soul gems.

Anyway, most of our necromancy spells involve raising ancient skeletons from the ground, rather than reanimating the recently dead. As such, the animus used to power these constructs is probably also very ancient and thus, not lucid.

Besides, Necromancy is mostly shunned because of Galerion's heavily biased bigotry and Mannimarco's deadly ambition. Couple that with the normal folk's fear of the unknown and there you go.

Also worth mentioning, our brand of Necromancy is mostly restorative and destructive magic. Sure, we use conjuration to pull some blank, unidentifiable souls out of the dreemsleeve (or maybe we take whatever is lingering in the local area?) but we do not deal with any Daedra. As you know, dealing with Daedra generally ends up with things going badly and often takes a powerful mage (aka the vestige) to control.

To sum up, Necromancy is only as bad as the person that wields it. After all, the Dunmer use it for ancestor worship, the Divine Prosecution use it to assist with solving murders, somebody has already mentioned Vastarie above, the Empire is generally ok with it as long as it is regulated, the Nords used it, the Khajiit mostly don't give a hoot (they actually do shallow burials for their deceased, well in the knowledge that it makes an easy target for a necromancer), the Bosmer aren't overly bothered either.
Some of those examples are feom different time periods and thus, are not relevant in 2E, but I still consider then valid.

RaddlemanNumber7

My characters are all Shezzarines, avatars of Lorkhan. It follows that their actions are always the right thing to do in the circumstances in which they find themselves. They define morality.

ChunkyCat

a necro. call the guards

Jacen_Veron

My character is based on the Breton Hero from the trailers, so his necromancy carried over after he was turned by the dremora.

kaisernick

Well my dunmer doesnt think hes evil, hes doing this because his minor house is under threat from the larger ones and knows if he can just stay ahead of them he might make it through this mess (plus he wants to find a way to bring his wife back)

My vampire is under no illusion that necromancy is evil but she is a Cyrodil vampire so she uses it against those who threaten her goals.

Aztrias

"From my point of view, Vanus Galerion is evil!" - Mannimarco

Eporem

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Anyone who wants to play the "necromancy is inherently immoral" card would also have to stop using soul gems.

Anyway, most of our necromancy spells involve raising ancient skeletons from the ground, rather than reanimating the recently dead. As such, the animus used to power these constructs is probably also very ancient and thus, not lucid.

Besides, Necromancy is mostly shunned because of Galerion's heavily biased bigotry and Mannimarco's deadly ambition. Couple that with the normal folk's fear of the unknown and there you go.

Also worth mentioning, our brand of Necromancy is mostly restorative and destructive magic. Sure, we use conjuration to pull some blank, unidentifiable souls out of the dreemsleeve (or maybe we take whatever is lingering in the local area?) but we do not deal with any Daedra. As you know, dealing with Daedra generally ends up with things going badly and often takes a powerful mage (aka the vestige) to control.

To sum up, Necromancy is only as bad as the person that wields it. After all, the Dunmer use it for ancestor worship, the Divine Prosecution use it to assist with solving murders, somebody has already mentioned Vastarie above, the Empire is generally ok with it as long as it is regulated, the Nords used it, the Khajiit mostly don't give a hoot (they actually do shallow burials for their deceased, well in the knowledge that it makes an easy target for a necromancer), the Bosmer aren't overly bothered either.
Some of those examples are feom different time periods and thus, are not relevant in 2E, but I still consider then valid.

This was mentioned in another post as well from @AnomanderisPurake

Actually in a post released by ZOS during the promotional time for Elsweyr and when they released information regarding the Criminal Act system for Necromancy, ZOS stated that Necromancers use lesser Daedric spirits to inhabit human bodies and that's how they reanimate them


read from here I think:

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56159

Iccotak

I think of it like Necromancer we met in Elsweyr. She saw it as her duty to look after the balance of life and death.
That's how I play my Argonian Necromancer - balance of nature, circle of life, etc.

robertbmilesb14_ESO

The Bosmer loathe necromancy.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Necromancy

"While few Bosmer perform Arkay's rituals when burying the dead, the more primitive Bosmer still practice cannibalism upon their enemies, which reduces the number of available corpses. As would be expected from such a backwards people, they have an intolerance of Necromancy that goes beyond all reason. Many Necromancers who practice our Arts in Valenwood become "one with the trees" themselves."

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Corpse_Preparation

As long as you don't mess with sentient beings (i.e. Black Soul Gems), you are for the most part morally good or neutral. The House Dunmer consider everyone else lesser beings btw.

You could just be reanimating spirits, skeletons, etc. with the normal soul gems, a standard power source for any mage.

Remember: "One more note to the student: While most undead can be raised again and again, skeletons are often damaged in ways that make raising them again impossible."

Right now it's a war torn continent, corpses are a plenty but you may not be gathering so many anyway.

What makes most citizens and provinces see Necromancy as "evil" is the use of corpses, that's why those spells trigger the guards .

ArchMikem

Vastarie, the Altmer from Grahtwood and more recently Ashen Scar, is a "Morally Good" Necromancer. She uses the magic to commune with the dead. Helps people find closure with the Souls of passed loved ones. She's very opposed to commanding them, raising them etc.

Kesstryl

Yes, my Necro tank lost his family during the Molag Bal attack and turned to necromancy to bring them back to life, preserving their remains, and learning from that Orc necromancer and his school in Elsweyr until he saw some necromancers kill a khajiit family in front of their father and it made him realize he was on the wrong side. Now he fights for them, and is learning to properly grieve for and let go of his own lost family. While he is not considered lawful good, more like chaotic good, he is stronger with his dark arts that he used to be as a mere soldier in the fight against the dragons, so he continues to use necromancy. So yeah it can be done.

Sylianwe

Yes, they most certainly exist. An example of a morally "aware" and altruistic Necromancer would be Malkish Sugar-Fangs.

He does not harm, vows to heal and only summons the bones of those who have died and have been abandoned a long time ago; which means he only uses his summoned thrall to heal, such as Spirit Mender. He doesn't use any spells which are viewed as criminal acts.

I use "aware" because no Man nor Mer is either "good" or "bad", it is mostly an equation of choices and situational consequences, because of those choices.

So in short - even Necromancers can be kind. Just as much as a Templar can be deadly.

NyassaV

It all depends on how you use your power. Maybe you're helping in the only way you know.

karthrag_inak

idk wrote: »

A morally good necromancer would let the dead continue to rest.

or, a morally good necromancer would attempt to raise as many dead as possible to give them a 2nd chance at life.

Hvíthákarl

My Argonian Necromancer is all about contacting spirits and invoking their aid -with consent, of course-, that's how I roleplay the Spirit Mender, specifically. The rest of their magic is Restoration plus some Necromancy tricks.

Sure, they are less powerful than the average, doesn't-care-for-morals Necromancer, but power is not their concern, but fulfilling their labor: guiding the dead back to the Hist or whenever they belong.

GrigorijMalahevich

Don’t want to look like a geek or smth, but morally good necromancer is a normal thing as if “normal” peasants or any other interested party has a problem with the undead - it would make much more sense to hire a necromancer to take care of it, not some kind of random “hero”.

Then you have the aspect of being a messenger between the dead and alive - if you want a “psychic” to speak to the dead, you will probably go to a necromancer than to an ice mage or smth...

vestahls

My Dunmer necromancer doesn't consider it evil if the necromancy is done to non-Dunmer. Incidentally it's a fun touch how the Skeletal Arcanist pet always has a tail

That being said, she doesn't necessarily do quests to help people - unless it's to help Dunmer (except Hlaalu, those fetchers).

Otherwise, it's for the rewards. Or I just avoid the quest NPCs if it would be helping a particularly contemptible non-mer.

Iccotak

My argonian necromancer was once a healer and a woman

Her husband was critically injured by a mysterious spell in action during the Three-Banner War

none of the magic she knew, nor any healer, would work. Things got desperate. She met with a Nord who was secretly a Necromancer who gave her what knowledge he could.

She returned to her homeland with her husband. There she learned what she could about forbidden Argonian rituals from other tribes. Eventually she attempted to use a ritual with Hist sap that would exchange the life of her Egg to bring him back to life.
Sithis punished her. Not only did she lose her husband and egg, but her form as well. She became a He and Sithis placed him as a Death Guardian. One that used their powers to maintain the balance between life and death. Taking care to guide the spirits, place grave stakes, and other needs of the Hist.

His name is Thithil - the argonian word for Egg.

ghastley

The modern term for Necromancer is "transplant surgeon". We just haven't reached the whole-body capability that magic provides.

Nestor

The dead have no concerns, they have no way to complain*. If there is a soul, it has left the husk that used to be their body. A necromancer reanimates the corpse, not the soul.

There are no morals to be concerned about. Just may a little extra work for the Undertaker to do to make the corpse presentable for an open casket.


* Those few ghosts who complain do so about some object, not their corpse. And the ones who had their bones scattered, those would not serve a necromancer anyway, being scattered bones and useless to a necromancer.

Toanis

In its widest sense a necromancer is someone who uses the dead as a means to acquire knowledge.

The knowledge most necromancers ultimately seek from the dead is how to defy death, which by itself is "morally" wrong in most settings, because it defies the natural order and the will of any higher being that decides where you go in the afterlife.

As for the act of raising the dead: after a certain time it's completely fine for an archeologist to dig up the dead to learn about their life and display them in a museum. A necromancer just goes one step further and tries to learn directly from the source.

From being able to bring back to try and communicate with what remains of the person that once owned that pile of bones there are two paths the necromancer can go next - animating the dead out of affection or as a mockery and treating the dead as tools to be used and discarded as they see fit.

At least the later, while selfish and distasteful isn't innately evil, but obviously it's a small step from having no empathy for the dead to having none for the living either.

Cryptor

xGhost91x wrote: »

So, just out of curiosity, do any of you Necro players give your character a reason as to why they would be doing quests and helping people? Historically, necromancers have always been pretty deplorable characters. Why would they decide to help others?

Raising the dead is obviously a friendly gesture aimed at helping the deceased. Necromancer you say? I say these fine people are optimists trying their best to bring the deceased back into the realm of living. What greater gift? What greater gesture of friendship, then extending ones life span*?

*More or less.