Misconceptions regarding DPS today vs DPS 1-2 years ago.

SoLooney

Who cares about the iron atro dummy, its there to standard classes as each class has their own buffs and debuffs that other classes dont have

It's to minimize discrepancies and see what each class hits with the same debuffs and buffs, obviously a class like a necro has access to major vulnerability that the iron atro doesnt offer but regardless, the whole group benefits from it

I still see players hitting under 30k on the iron atro dummy, you're hitting that dummy for a long time lol

karekiz

There is powercreep.

Powercreep isn't actually a bad thing.

starkerealm

SoLooney wrote: »

Who cares about the iron atro dummy...

I get that this was rhetorical, but the answer is kind of interesting: ZOS cares.

The trial dummies were originally designed for internal testing to determine each class's potential damage ceiling. They're there so you could jump onto a test build, parse out, and see what you could potentially do with each class on the current build of the game.

Their usefulness to an end user is limited. These were not designed to return useful information about player's capabilities. They were designed to evaluate the current state of the game.

Literally, the trial dummies exist so that one of the play testers can hop on the internal shard, and figure out what someone from a hardcore raiding guild, will be able to do with any proposed changes.

starkerealm

karekiz wrote: »

There is powercreep.

Powercreep isn't actually a bad thing.

I'm going to agree with this, with a major caveat: controlled power creep isn't, necessarily, a bad thing.

Problem is, ESO's power creep has been a bit uncontrolled. That is a bad thing.

Heelie

raid dps has gone up a tonne, which means potential dps has grown a tonne, we would have seen under 3 min vAS runs a year ago if that was not the case.

Morgha_Kul

NBrookus wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

For example, today I was in the Bonesnap Ruins public dungeon. There was someone in there running around gathering up all the enemies he could find and then instantly destroying all of them. This meant that everyone else in the dungeon had nothing to DO... and that's not good for the game as a whole.

As I say, my dps is only around 4-5k, and I can do all the world content (even most World Bosses). If I go into a Veteran Dungeon (even a NORMAL dungeon), I'm not going to be able to do much of ANYTHING. A group of casual players like me would never be able to do Dungeons or Trials... and I don't think it should BE that way. At least, not at normal levels.

That I can do most of the world content reliably, but still with SOME challenge suggests that my damage is adequate at the lower end. That I can't do higher end content AT ALL suggests that the requirements at the top end are too high for more casual players.

If I am grinding up a skill in a public dungeon and see a player obviously doing the same at a much lower rate, I invite them to group so they get more XP. You can ask for the same courtesy. A 2 man group gets an XP buff anyway.

That said, if you are max level and doing 4-5k dps, something is very wrong. 20k is simple to reach even in crafted gear, and will be sufficient for non DLC vet dungeons and normal Craglorn trials if you learn the mechanics. No sweaty try hard needed. If you want to do this kind of content, I suggest you reach out to your guilds for a little one on one help.

A couple of things about that. First, I don't play for xp. Never did, never do. I play for the fun of it, to experience the stories and the gameplay. To me (and it's just my opinion, though I'm sure others share it), a fight that's over in the blink of an eye is no fun at all. Part of the enjoyment is seeing the animations of cool skills and powers, and letting that make you feel powerful. Generally, I won't get involved in someone else's fight unless I see that they're having trouble, and even then I'll usually try to offer healing or tanking (ie. taking the attention of the enemy to give the player a moment to catch his breath).

As I said, I'm only doing 4-5k dps, but it's partly because the character isn't minmaxed at all, he's very much hybrid, and uses skills I like, rather than what's necessarily most efficient. However, while I probably COULD get to 20k damage, at least on one or another of my characters, I really don't WANT to. As it is, the world of the game isn't really much of a threat to me. If I had even more dps, I would have even less challenge, and would miss out on using my skills and powers, and the enjoyment doing so brings me. Of course, this means I can't do any of the top end stuff. It's a situation of being damned if I do, and damned if I don't. Either I trivialize the whole world of the game by boosting my dps, or I exclude myself from all the dungeons and trials.

I really wish it wasn't that way.

starkerealm

@Morgha_Kul, you could always tank.

Morgha_Kul

starkerealm wrote: »

@Morgha_Kul, you could always tank.

I suppose, but I find that tanks don't live very long in dungeons and the like, because no one heals very well (most people are all about dps), or the enemies flood the area with unblockable oneshots. I'll admit, this one comes down to ME, because I don't care for content that can only be done one particular way with certain particular skills and so on. I dislike content that is so scripted... but again, that's just me.

starkerealm

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

@Morgha_Kul, you could always tank.

I suppose, but I find that tanks don't live very long in dungeons and the like, because no one heals very well (most people are all about dps), or the enemies flood the area with unblockable oneshots. I'll admit, this one comes down to ME, because I don't care for content that can only be done one particular way with certain particular skills and so on. I dislike content that is so scripted... but again, that's just me.

Yeah, if dungeons aren't your thing, no fault there. Also sounds like you might benefit from an actual group rather than PUGing through the group finder, but again, Dungeons and Trials are a specific kind of content, and if that doesn't appeal, it doesn't appeal.

Casul

So I have been enjoying the Nioh 2 beta so I haven't touched the forums in a few days. But I went through all the comments. Love the amount of discussion. So now I pose a new questions.

I saw something mentioned regarding power creep. Is it normal, can it be applied to a game in a healthy way etc. This is something my trial guild has pondered over and I wanna hear your opinions.

Q: Is power creep a natural cycle in a games life that should be anticipated and have content built around the fact it exists. Or should we build power level around the content that exists and bring content that is impossible (say 30 minute godslayer on consoles) down to be level with the rest of the content.

I would say power creep is a something we should expect and build content around. There's nothing wrong with earlier content being easier due to power creep. It allows the majority of players who couldn't participate in the past an opportunity to play through it currently. Likewise it allows top tier players to still feel a goal to achieve as it doesn't stop vertical progression.