Is Soul Trap broken? - NVM lol

Khivas_Carrick

I go to use it and it the spell launches and it aggros mobs, but..........the initial damage doesn't seem to be landing and the only thing that actually damages them is the DoT itself.

Is Soul Trap bugged?

EDIT*

Ha, nvm, I misread the tool tip, my bad.

Davadin

the last few months it went from, oh cool useless skill, to WOW must use, to meh who bothers with this anymore?

Ragnarock41

Davadin wrote: »

the last few months it went from, oh cool useless skill, to WOW must use, to meh who bothers with this anymore?

Its a fully ranged dot that is more potent than venomous claws. And is also a lot cheaper if you're a light armor user. Warden also has a ranged dot that applies minor vulnerability and is somewhere near claws in strength.

(FYI claws/noxious have fat tooltips because they last 14 seconds rather than 10)

What you should be asking is , who bothers with Dk dots anymore? When other classes get to have dots that are just as strong, what is the point of being a Dk?

Davadin

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

the last few months it went from, oh cool useless skill, to WOW must use, to meh who bothers with this anymore?

Its a fully ranged dot that is more potent than venomous claws. And is also a lot cheaper if you're a light armor user. Warden also has a ranged dot that applies minor vulnerability and is somewhere near claws in strength.

u mean the un-morph version? I'll have to try it out again. I like the new buffed Venom Claw though.

(FYI claws/noxious have fat tooltips because they last 14 seconds rather than 10)

ah yes, totally forgot. Claw is still cheaper tho, for a stam user who uses med/heavy. I can't afford more than 3 mag skills.

What you should be asking is , who bothers with Dk dots anymore? When other classes get to have dots that are just as strong, what is the point of being a Dk?

exactly. at this point im hoping DK will be the "Fire and Fury" class, not the bleeding class............... like, your tanky, heavy barbarian, slow-heavy-attacking DPS class.........

Ragnarock41

Davadin wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

the last few months it went from, oh cool useless skill, to WOW must use, to meh who bothers with this anymore?

Its a fully ranged dot that is more potent than venomous claws. And is also a lot cheaper if you're a light armor user. Warden also has a ranged dot that applies minor vulnerability and is somewhere near claws in strength.

u mean the un-morph version? I'll have to try it out again. I like the new buffed Venom Claw though.

(FYI claws/noxious have fat tooltips because they last 14 seconds rather than 10)

ah yes, totally forgot. Claw is still cheaper tho, for a stam user who uses med/heavy. I can't afford more than 3 mag skills.

What you should be asking is , who bothers with Dk dots anymore? When other classes get to have dots that are just as strong, what is the point of being a Dk?

exactly. at this point im hoping DK will be the "Fire and Fury" class, not the bleeding class............... like, your tanky, heavy barbarian, slow-heavy-attacking DPS class.........

New buffed claws? Claws has not seen any buffs. Its only nerfed , nerfed, and nerfed again. It gives me near the same tooltip over 4 seconds longer duration, compared to U22. If you know basic math that is not a buff.

Davadin

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

the last few months it went from, oh cool useless skill, to WOW must use, to meh who bothers with this anymore?

Its a fully ranged dot that is more potent than venomous claws. And is also a lot cheaper if you're a light armor user. Warden also has a ranged dot that applies minor vulnerability and is somewhere near claws in strength.

u mean the un-morph version? I'll have to try it out again. I like the new buffed Venom Claw though.

(FYI claws/noxious have fat tooltips because they last 14 seconds rather than 10)

ah yes, totally forgot. Claw is still cheaper tho, for a stam user who uses med/heavy. I can't afford more than 3 mag skills.

What you should be asking is , who bothers with Dk dots anymore? When other classes get to have dots that are just as strong, what is the point of being a Dk?

exactly. at this point im hoping DK will be the "Fire and Fury" class, not the bleeding class............... like, your tanky, heavy barbarian, slow-heavy-attacking DPS class.........

New buffed claws? Claws has not seen any buffs. Its only nerfed , nerfed, and nerfed again. It gives me near the same tooltip over 4 seconds longer duration, compared to U22. If you know basic math that is not a buff.

the last PTS patch:

Ardent Flame

Searing Strike

Venomous Claw (morph): Increased the ramping bonus damage per tick of this morph to 17/18/19/20%, up from 9/10/11/12%.

i meant not compared to Elswyr/Scalebreaker, just from PTS iterations.

SipofMaim

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

the last few months it went from, oh cool useless skill, to WOW must use, to meh who bothers with this anymore?

Its a fully ranged dot that is more potent than venomous claws. And is also a lot cheaper if you're a light armor user. Warden also has a ranged dot that applies minor vulnerability and is somewhere near claws in strength.

(FYI claws/noxious have fat tooltips because they last 14 seconds rather than 10)

What you should be asking is , who bothers with Dk dots anymore? When other classes get to have dots that are just as strong, what is the point of being a Dk?

Fire. Is this a trick question?

Fun > numbers.

Ragnarock41

SipofMaim wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

the last few months it went from, oh cool useless skill, to WOW must use, to meh who bothers with this anymore?

Its a fully ranged dot that is more potent than venomous claws. And is also a lot cheaper if you're a light armor user. Warden also has a ranged dot that applies minor vulnerability and is somewhere near claws in strength.

(FYI claws/noxious have fat tooltips because they last 14 seconds rather than 10)

What you should be asking is , who bothers with Dk dots anymore? When other classes get to have dots that are just as strong, what is the point of being a Dk?

Fire. Is this a trick question?

Fun > numbers.

Oh yes, Its SO MUCH GOD DAMN FUN to play the immobile melee dot class to get outdamaged by a magsorc from 40 meters away.

Fun. Yikes.

SipofMaim

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SipofMaim wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

the last few months it went from, oh cool useless skill, to WOW must use, to meh who bothers with this anymore?

Its a fully ranged dot that is more potent than venomous claws. And is also a lot cheaper if you're a light armor user. Warden also has a ranged dot that applies minor vulnerability and is somewhere near claws in strength.

(FYI claws/noxious have fat tooltips because they last 14 seconds rather than 10)

What you should be asking is , who bothers with Dk dots anymore? When other classes get to have dots that are just as strong, what is the point of being a Dk?

Fire. Is this a trick question?

Fun > numbers.

Oh yes, Its SO MUCH GOD DAMN FUN to play the immobile melee dot class to get outdamaged by a magsorc from 40 meters away.

Fun. Yikes.

If you're not having fun, why bother?

Ragnarock41

SipofMaim wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SipofMaim wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

the last few months it went from, oh cool useless skill, to WOW must use, to meh who bothers with this anymore?

Its a fully ranged dot that is more potent than venomous claws. And is also a lot cheaper if you're a light armor user. Warden also has a ranged dot that applies minor vulnerability and is somewhere near claws in strength.

(FYI claws/noxious have fat tooltips because they last 14 seconds rather than 10)

What you should be asking is , who bothers with Dk dots anymore? When other classes get to have dots that are just as strong, what is the point of being a Dk?

Fire. Is this a trick question?

Fun > numbers.

Oh yes, Its SO MUCH GOD DAMN FUN to play the immobile melee dot class to get outdamaged by a magsorc from 40 meters away.

Fun. Yikes.

If you're not having fun, why bother?

Because I had fun when sDk was actually a dot class with strong and cheap dots , had access to defile and had its own dot synergy ultimate (corrosive armor). All of these are taken away from me and now ranged dots do just as much damage as venomous claws, with more secondary benefits like minor vulnerability or some other fancy stuff.

If you're the type of player that thinks Its fun to just use abilities, that numbers don't matter at all, then go and use your abilities, since numbers don't affect your fun, go away and don't waste my time.

Vanzen

Must say that Entropy + Soul trap feel nice on my Skoria/Surge resto bar sorc

HankTwo

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

the last few months it went from, oh cool useless skill, to WOW must use, to meh who bothers with this anymore?

Its a fully ranged dot that is more potent than venomous claws. And is also a lot cheaper if you're a light armor user. Warden also has a ranged dot that applies minor vulnerability and is somewhere near claws in strength.

(FYI claws/noxious have fat tooltips because they last 14 seconds rather than 10)

What you should be asking is , who bothers with Dk dots anymore? When other classes get to have dots that are just as strong, what is the point of being a Dk?

Soul trap more potent than venomous claw this patch? I think I've never seen such utter nonsense from you @Ragnarock41

I just did a quick test on a dummy, comparing venomous claw vs consuming trap on my stamDK (one skill after the other), and on average venomous claw did ~108.5% more damage per second than consuming trap. Thats more than twice as much! And because of the longer duration, venomous claw dealt ~191.9% more damage per cast, so almost triple the amount of damage.

Damage wise, venomous claw looks like the strongest single target DOT skill in the entire game (which is awesome). During the first 6 seconds, the guaranteed poison proc is a very nice damage boost. But even after that the skill deals good damage, because it increase every tick. This is especially powerful, because it was buffed to 20% per tick while the duration of the skill was increased to 14 seconds.

Overall, venomous claw deals much more damage because of these 2 effects than the flat tool tip would suggest, and imo is in a very nice spot right now (in general and also compared to most other DOT skills).

Ragnarock41

HankTwo wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

the last few months it went from, oh cool useless skill, to WOW must use, to meh who bothers with this anymore?

Its a fully ranged dot that is more potent than venomous claws. And is also a lot cheaper if you're a light armor user. Warden also has a ranged dot that applies minor vulnerability and is somewhere near claws in strength.

(FYI claws/noxious have fat tooltips because they last 14 seconds rather than 10)

What you should be asking is , who bothers with Dk dots anymore? When other classes get to have dots that are just as strong, what is the point of being a Dk?

Soul trap more potent than venomous claw this patch? I think I've never seen such utter nonsense from you @Ragnarock41

I just did a quick test on a dummy, comparing venomous claw vs consuming trap on my stamDK (one skill after the other), and on average venomous claw did ~108.5% more damage per second than consuming trap. Thats more than twice as much! And because of the longer duration, venomous claw dealt ~191.9% more damage per cast, so almost triple the amount of damage.

Damage wise, venomous claw looks like the strongest single target DOT skill in the entire game (which is awesome). During the first 6 seconds, the guaranteed poison proc is a very nice damage boost. But even after that the skill deals good damage, because it increase every tick. This is especially powerful, because it was buffed to 20% per tick while the duration of the skill was increased to 14 seconds.

Overall, venomous claw deals much more damage because of these 2 effects than the flat tool tip would suggest, and imo is in a very nice spot right now (in general and also compared to most other DOT skills).

Utter non-sense? Let me explain to you my reasoning here because I don't understand how you got claws to do 2 times higher damage than soul trap. Here is what I got from test as total damage from each dot:

https://i.postimg.cc/rFKH6P3k/test.png


FYI Both dots ran for their full duration. The difference is nowhere near as massive as you point it out to be. And as expected claws damage is %40 higher because it runs for %40 longer. I did not include the poisoned proc in my first post, but I'll admit it does add up.

Now you might look at this and say okay , claws deals more damage, case closed. And you would be right ; if Dk was the only class in the game. Different classes have access different passives and debuffs etc , affecting how much they hit with common abilities.

Your soul trap and that necromancer's, warden's or sorc's soul trap will not deal the same damage. Which was also the case when bleeds were overperforming, it was stamsorcs and stamblades that made the best dot setups rather than Dks, so nothing new on that part, however back then we had corrosive armor working on dots, which was the real gamechanger for more dot focused DK builds, you don't have that anymore.

And unfortunately you don't have any kind of delayed burst or mobility to compete with classes like stamden or stamsorc in open world. But they can have dots. Stamden's dot comes with minor vulnerability btw, I don't think I have to explain how strong that debuff is.

On a side note, I don't think its wrong for other classes to have strong dots, having the same attrition playstyle on their own original way. But If everyone gets to have everything, then Dk needs to have delayed burst, maybe %20-30 weaker than what others have, but It would be only fair that way.

HankTwo

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

the last few months it went from, oh cool useless skill, to WOW must use, to meh who bothers with this anymore?

Its a fully ranged dot that is more potent than venomous claws. And is also a lot cheaper if you're a light armor user. Warden also has a ranged dot that applies minor vulnerability and is somewhere near claws in strength.

(FYI claws/noxious have fat tooltips because they last 14 seconds rather than 10)

What you should be asking is , who bothers with Dk dots anymore? When other classes get to have dots that are just as strong, what is the point of being a Dk?

Soul trap more potent than venomous claw this patch? I think I've never seen such utter nonsense from you @Ragnarock41

I just did a quick test on a dummy, comparing venomous claw vs consuming trap on my stamDK (one skill after the other), and on average venomous claw did ~108.5% more damage per second than consuming trap. Thats more than twice as much! And because of the longer duration, venomous claw dealt ~191.9% more damage per cast, so almost triple the amount of damage.

Damage wise, venomous claw looks like the strongest single target DOT skill in the entire game (which is awesome). During the first 6 seconds, the guaranteed poison proc is a very nice damage boost. But even after that the skill deals good damage, because it increase every tick. This is especially powerful, because it was buffed to 20% per tick while the duration of the skill was increased to 14 seconds.

Overall, venomous claw deals much more damage because of these 2 effects than the flat tool tip would suggest, and imo is in a very nice spot right now (in general and also compared to most other DOT skills).

Utter non-sense? Let me explain to you my reasoning here because I don't understand how you got claws to do 2 times higher damage than soul trap. Here is what I got from test as total damage from each dot:

https://i.postimg.cc/rFKH6P3k/test.png


FYI Both dots ran for their full duration. The difference is nowhere near as massive as you point it out to be. And as expected claws damage is %40 higher because it runs for %40 longer. I did not include the poisoned proc in my first post, but I'll admit it does add up.

Now you might look at this and say okay , claws deals more damage, case closed. And you would be right ; if Dk was the only class in the game. Different classes have access different passives and debuffs etc , affecting how much they hit with common abilities.

Your soul trap and that necromancer's, warden's or sorc's soul trap will not deal the same damage. Which was also the case when bleeds were overperforming, it was stamsorcs and stamblades that made the best dot setups rather than Dks, so nothing new on that part, however back then we had corrosive armor working on dots, which was the real gamechanger for more dot focused DK builds, you don't have that anymore.

And unfortunately you don't have any kind of delayed burst or mobility to compete with classes like stamden or stamsorc in open world. But they can have dots. Stamden's dot comes with minor vulnerability btw, I don't think I have to explain how strong that debuff is.

On a side note, I don't think its wrong for other classes to have strong dots, having the same attrition playstyle on their own original way. But If everyone gets to have everything, then Dk needs to have delayed burst, maybe %20-30 weaker than what others have, but It would be only fair that way.

I don't wanna discuss overall effectiveness of stamDK here, since its off topic.

But here is how I did the tests with some results for you:

First test:
a) 7 times soul trap on target dummy, recastet roughly after 1 second every time it ran out.
Result: 932.5 dps over 80 seconds --> true damage per second: 932.5*80/70 = 1065.7 dps or 10657 damage per cast

b) 5 times venomous claw on target dummy, recastet roughly after 1 second every time it ran out.
Result: 1960.6 dps over 78 seconds --> true damage per second: 1960.6*78/70 = 2184.67 dps or 30585.38 damage per cast

Second test:
a) 5 times soul trap one after another on target dummy
Results: 916.9 dps, 1098.2 dps, 914.2 dps, 1099.2 dps, 1010.0 dps all over 10 seconds --> 1007.7 dps on average or 10077 damage per cast

b) 5 times venomous claw one after another on target dummy
Results: 2164.7 dps, 2128.9 dps, 1861.7 dps, 2167.5 dps, 2370.1 dps all over 14 seconds --> 2138.58 dps on average or 29940 damage per cast

Now, for the results I presented earlier I just averaged both experiments, which is not the perfectly correct way to do this, because those are different experimental settings, but they both tell the same story anyway.

If you want to look at it from a different angle lets just do some calculations:
My Soul trap tool tip: 13206 over 10 seconds (6 ticks) --> 1100.5 dps
My Claw tool tip: 4688 initial + 15603 over 14 seconds (7 ticks) --> 2229 damage for the initial tick
Hidden poisoned tooltip (gained via damage tests and calculations): 6888 (4 ticks) --> 1722 damage per tick for 4 ticks. Very interestingly, it seems that venomous claw poisoned also increases in damage after each tick, compared to poisoned from say a glyph. Pretty cool. However, it is pretty incosistent when the damage increase begins. Sometimes its on the second tick, sometimes on the third. Maybe it depends on if the venomous claw tick gets calculated before or after the poisoned tick (on paper they occur at the same exact time point).

So claw will do the following damage each tick, non crit:
(4688+1722) + (2229*1+1722*1) + (2229*1.2 + 1722*1.2) + (2229*1.4 + 1722*1.4) + (2229*1.6) +(2229*1.8) + (2229*2.0) + (2229*2.2) = 37804 total damage over 14 seconds --> 2700.3 dps
Now, all percentual extra damage is additive to each other (for example minor berserk, 2h passive with sword, CPs, ...), which is why the difference isn't quite that big in practice.

So there you have it, and no, there are no class passive in the game that will make soul trap hit harder than venomous claw if the same sets or mirror sets (like bone pirate vs bright throat) for a stam/mag comparison are used.

Oh, and what you said about claw costing more than soul trap is also a flat out lie.
On my 5 heavy 2 medium nord stam DK venomous claw costs 1818 in CP overland.
However, every time you hit someone 500 stam are instantly restored because of the combustion passive. I tested this.

On the other hand, on my 5 light 1 medium 1 heavy altmer magplar consuming trap costs 2174 magicka and on my 5 light 2 heavy argonian magden 2247.

Now, its true that the other morph has recuced cost while it ranks up, so it will be cheaper than consuming trap. But it would deal even less damage in comparison and under no cicumstances would it cost less than 1818-500=1318 magicka unless you stack ridiculously high into cost reduction. Fyi, the build editor suggests that soul splitting trap would cost 1893 magicka on my magplar and 2005 magicka on my magden, so still higher than the base cost of venomous claw.

So please stop spreading misinformation...

Khivas_Carrick

I'm mad this got attention when I had tried to kill it myself lol