MMR was broken by the patch. Battlegrounds issue

Nirnroot420

Thanris wrote: »

Can confirm. Playing with a guildie last night, both of us high MMR, we swept like 9/10 games. Not even trying to humble-brag or anything. We were just going up against people that were sub 160 CP or just clearly had little to no PvP experience. Something definitely broke.

Yeah, this si what's happening. High MMR players can't solo queue--the few times I've been able to dedicate a few hours to ESO this week has been spent with 30+ minute queues. The upside is these matches have at least some players who aren't doing their first ever BG.

On the flip side of this, if I duo with someone to queue for BGs, the pops are instant, but we're up against players that don't understand what a rotation is. The skill gap is huge and these games aren't fun for anyone involved. Believe me, pugstomping gets old quickly and it's not a challenging or engaging experience, and I can't imagine the greener players enjoying getting stomped very much, either.

So if ZoS didn't change anything in MMR, something about how matchmaker works must have changed because none of these events, aside from the occasional late-night long queue, have ever happened prior to this patch.

drkfrontiers

Ah explains my my noobie level 10s were seeing level 40-50s. It must be broken because I kNoW I sUx at PvP.

I should make a video.. become a YouTube legend... I even die through self-inflicted wounds!!

NoodleESO

just get rid of mmr all together everything will even out

Qwazzy

Liam12548 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Great opportunity for zos to do away with the MMR entirely and send bgs back to a playable state.

Can you kindly tell us what MMR has to do with battlegrounds being unplayable?

Or, are these two comments entirely separate?

Sure thing. For a player like myself with over 5,000 BG games played, playing with my friends who ALSO have a similar number of games isn't an option. If we try to group on on our main characters even in PAIRS OF TWO, we are faced with 15+ minute queue times during PEAK hours. We don't even bother playing as a group of four anymore because it is simply a waste of time. 30 minutes+ to get into a game is less than two games an hour, and at that point we'd all rather do something else (which usually means play a different game, because Cyrodiil is near enough unplayable and imperial city on console doesn't ever get even 1 bar of population).

When I solo queue, I match premade groups of 3-4 players on both opposing teams, 9 times out of 10. My team in these situations USUALLY consists of 2 low tier, unskilled players with little to no BG experience. It is EXTREMELY common for me to end up in a 3v4v4 scenario and never even receive a 4th player on my team. It's almost as if my MMR alone is equivalent to that of a 3-4 man group of players who do not play BG's that often.

So the result is that the experience is more or less, unplayable. Back before MMR was introduced, I could play all day long with whoever I wanted to and I would NEVER match the same people twice in a row. Games were entered in UNDER 5 MINUTES, EVERY TIME. My friends and I dominated the leaderboards every week (not like it matters, but we couldn't get on if we tried now) because we put in the most time.

It's just depressing that for players who invested the most time and enjoyed battlegrounds the most, the experience has been completely ruined. There is no fall back anymore either, because the main cyrodiil campaign is UNPLAYABLE and both imperial city AND the off campaign get NO POPULATION on xbox NA.

@Taleof2Cities

This. It's not fun waiting 30+ minutes to play.

iCaliban

NoodleESO wrote: »

just get rid of mmr all together everything will even out

this isnt a fix unfortunately. Lack of mmr would have 2 pretty awful effects on BGs: 1) the new player pipeline would dry up after they got humiliated by good players over and over. 2) Skilled players have absolutely no way of playing with eachother on purpose, right now there is a way to manipulate MMR such that teams can play eachother.

Unfortunately ESO does not have any sort of lobby system, which it desperately needs. Or custom matches.

Somewhere

Honestly I was kind of thinking something similar last night, but was like "what if they accidentally reset mmr?"

I dont think I am great at pvp, but if you pair any half way experienced player with people who dont play at all, everyone will have a bad time.

iCaliban

Update: matches for 2+ are NOT fixed with the most recent update. High mmr groups are matched with low mmr players.

Hexquisite

This has been happening to me as well. I solo qued about 15 matches this weekend on a player with a higher MMR and a brand new alt. I only got on teams with Low CP, and many that claimed to be trying BGs for the first time, only to be matched up agaisnt 2 premades. every time..who of course see the easy kills and don't fight each other, but go after the low level team. And then they spawn camp., so people don't want to leave the spawn, and many just leave the BG.

The thing is, no matter how good a build is or a player, when 2 premades focus you, you are going to die fairly quick, despite trying to LOS, etc.

Usually when I solo que I get a couple premades, but also the team is more my lexperience level.

iCaliban

Hexquisite wrote: »

This has been happening to me as well. I solo qued about 15 matches this weekend on a player with a higher MMR and a brand new alt. I only got on teams with Low CP, and many that claimed to be trying BGs for the first time, only to be matched up agaisnt 2 premades. every time..who of course see the easy kills and don't fight each other, but go after the low level team. And then they spawn camp., so people don't want to leave the spawn, and many just leave the BG.

The thing is, no matter how good a build is or a player, when 2 premades focus you, you are going to die fairly quick, despite trying to LOS, etc.

Usually when I solo que I get a couple premades, but also the team is more my lexperience level.

FWIW, most premades have ZERO desire to fight pugs. Under the previous system premades would be put up against the highest available MMR players, which usually stood a good chance against them. Also, good players playing together often give the appearance of being premade, since optimal plays are usually pretty obvious.

Hexquisite

iCaliban wrote: »

Hexquisite wrote: »

This has been happening to me as well. I solo qued about 15 matches this weekend on a player with a higher MMR and a brand new alt. I only got on teams with Low CP, and many that claimed to be trying BGs for the first time, only to be matched up agaisnt 2 premades. every time..who of course see the easy kills and don't fight each other, but go after the low level team. And then they spawn camp., so people don't want to leave the spawn, and many just leave the BG.

The thing is, no matter how good a build is or a player, when 2 premades focus you, you are going to die fairly quick, despite trying to LOS, etc.

Usually when I solo que I get a couple premades, but also the team is more my lexperience level.

FWIW, most premades have ZERO desire to fight pugs. Under the previous system premades would be put up against the highest available MMR players, which usually stood a good chance against them. Also, good players playing together often give the appearance of being premade, since optimal plays are usually pretty obvious.

Then why do most I run into spawn camp? Why do all 4, or all 8 players on the premades jump on one person?
Maybe your premades have more virtue than other premades. I know I when I see the other team is low level or, shortmanned I sit in the spawn, but I don't think the average pvp player is like this, in fact there are videos with people killing new players over and over and the players laughing about it.

This will kill pvp even further.

iCaliban

Hexquisite wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Hexquisite wrote: »

This has been happening to me as well. I solo qued about 15 matches this weekend on a player with a higher MMR and a brand new alt. I only got on teams with Low CP, and many that claimed to be trying BGs for the first time, only to be matched up agaisnt 2 premades. every time..who of course see the easy kills and don't fight each other, but go after the low level team. And then they spawn camp., so people don't want to leave the spawn, and many just leave the BG.

The thing is, no matter how good a build is or a player, when 2 premades focus you, you are going to die fairly quick, despite trying to LOS, etc.

Usually when I solo que I get a couple premades, but also the team is more my lexperience level.

FWIW, most premades have ZERO desire to fight pugs. Under the previous system premades would be put up against the highest available MMR players, which usually stood a good chance against them. Also, good players playing together often give the appearance of being premade, since optimal plays are usually pretty obvious.

Then why do most I run into spawn camp? Why do all 4, or all 8 players on the premades jump on one person?
Maybe your premades have more virtue than other premades. I know I when I see the other team is low level or, shortmanned I sit in the spawn, but I don't think the average pvp player is like this, in fact there are videos with people killing new players over and over and the players laughing about it.

This will kill pvp even further.

People hunting clips for videos is hardly representative. Toxic *** exist everywhere.

1) spawn camping is the natural result of getting wiped, its up to the team to break that. 2) focusing down the weakest player is a smart strategy, once that person is dead, you now have a 3 on 4.


Back to the main post: MMR is still broken as of the latest hot fix.

mandricus

RouDeR wrote: »

MMR is counting your wins(not win rate) it can goes only UP

Do you have a reliable source for that, or is it just your honest guess about how the system works? Based on my observations (no reliable source, just my wild guess), MMR works in a different way. It considers a number of factors, the most important being the total damage / healing output you are able to produce in a match on average, and tends to put together (if possible, based on another number of factors like queue length, how much you waited in the queue, number of players in the queue, if they are grouped or not and so on) people that are able to produce a similar output.

Skoomah

Did you guys realize that ZOS has never come out and actually confirmed the existence of MMR. We know that that there is some code that does matchmaking but we have no real clue how it’s done.

Why the secrecy?

How do we give proper feedback on a system we don’t know how it works exactly?

I do know something for a fact. The LFG system has never properly worked since the very first day it’s been launched.

You know why Apple has done so well? Because they release products that work and are pretty much bug free. You pay a premium but the stuff works.

You know why Microsoft products keep failing to have good product launches? Because they keep rolling out defective products filled with bugs.

Did ESO go the Apple route or the Microsoft route?

I know which way Blizzard went until more recently... Quality equals long term sustainable happy player base and more success.

BG queues rolled out broken.
Psijiic ultimate rolled out broken.
Necromancer class rolled out broken.

ALL STILL BROKEN.

ALL STILL AT FULL PRICE.

iCaliban

mandricus wrote: »

RouDeR wrote: »

MMR is counting your wins(not win rate) it can goes only UP

Do you have a reliable source for that, or it is just your honest guess about how the system works? Based on my observations (no reliable source, just my wild guess), MMR works in a different way. It considers a number of factors, the most important being the total damage / healing output you are able to produce in a match, and tends to put together (if possible, based on another number of factors like queue length, players in the queue, if they are grouped or not and so on) people that are able to produce a similar output.

This is not how mmr works. And this is NOT the thread to have MMR discussions.


How mmr works is simple, its a sum of your medal score over time.

Skoomah wrote: »

Did you guys realize that ZOS has never come out and actually confirmed the existence of MMR. We know that that there is some code that does matchmaking but we have no real clue how it’s done.

Why the secrecy?

How do we give proper feedback on a system we don’t know how it works exactly?

I do know something for a fact. The LFG system has never properly worked since the very first day it’s been launched.

You know why Apple has done so well? Because they release products that work and are pretty much bug free. You pay a premium but the stuff works.

You know why Microsoft products keep failing to have good product launches? Because they keep rolling out defective products filled with bugs.

Did ESO go the Apple route or the Microsoft route?

I know which way Blizzard went until more recently... Quality equals long term sustainable happy player base and more success.

BG queues rolled out broken.
Psijiic ultimate rolled out broken.
Necromancer class rolled out broken.

ALL STILL BROKEN.

ALL STILL AT FULL PRICE.

You had me till the apple vs microsoft crap. Tbh, its easy for apple to release "products that work!" when their product hasnt appreciably changed in a decade.

Your point is well taken, we dont have official statements on how mmr works.

ChunkyCat

ZoS has stated multiple times that there is a Match Making Ranking system in place >,>

iCaliban

This issue is not fixed as of 10/29. Groups of 2+ high mmr players are frequently matched against low MMR players.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

iCaliban wrote: »

This issue is not fixed as of 10/29. Groups of 2+ high mmr players are frequently matched against low MMR players.

Not saying I don’t believe y’all, I can’t get into BG’s half the time now and when I do I sit in que forever and it’s honestly pissing me off so I feel the pain as well.

However, how do you know they are high MMR? Simply because they are better? Does MMR carry over from one character to another? So if you have one character that is high MMR, and you make a new character, does that new character somehow also have high MMR? Honest question. One would assume not as achievements don’t transfer over.

If MMR doesn’t carry over from one character to another, the system would obviously consider them low MMR and put them against other low MMR people. It just so happens that person is a good player and you’re just SOL since the game doesn’t recognize the high MMR player as “high” since they are on an alt.

Not to mention just because a group is overwhelmingly in the lead doesn’t mean they are a premade. I was in a group the other day and we easily dominated and I got a whisper from one of the other team. Luckily a nice whisper, not **** talking or anything, but they commented on us being a premade. I assured them we weren’t, we just knew to stay together. Simple as that.

People always want to look for the obvious answer that agrees with their feelings but correlation doesn’t mean causation.

Even a mediocre player with basic understanding of PvP and mechanics would seem like a expert player to a noob.

With that being said, it would be nice if ZoS did release info on how their system works so we could at least clear all of this up.

ChunkyCat

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

This issue is not fixed as of 10/29. Groups of 2+ high mmr players are frequently matched against low MMR players.

how do you know they are high MMR?

If you have to ask, you can’t afford it.

iCaliban

.

iCaliban

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

This issue is not fixed as of 10/29. Groups of 2+ high mmr players are frequently matched against low MMR players.

Not saying I don’t believe y’all, I can’t get into BG’s half the time now and when I do I sit in que forever and it’s honestly pissing me off so I feel the pain as well.

However, how do you know they are high MMR? Simply because they are better? Does MMR carry over from one character to another? So if you have one character that is high MMR, and you make a new character, does that new character somehow also have high MMR? Honest question. One would assume not as achievements don’t transfer over.

If MMR doesn’t carry over from one character to another, the system would obviously consider them low MMR and put them against other low MMR people. It just so happens that person is a good player and you’re just SOL since the game doesn’t recognize the high MMR player as “high” since they are on an alt.

Not to mention just because a group is overwhelmingly in the lead doesn’t mean they are a premade. I was in a group the other day and we easily dominated and I got a whisper from one of the other team. Luckily a nice whisper, not **** talking or anything, but they commented on us being a premade. I assured them we weren’t, we just knew to stay together. Simple as that.

People always want to look for the obvious answer that agrees with their feelings but correlation doesn’t mean causation.

Even a mediocre player with basic understanding of PvP and mechanics would seem like a expert player to a noob.

With that being said, it would be nice if ZoS did release info on how their system works so we could at least clear all of this up.

1) I know "they" are high mmr, because they are me. I have nearly 3000 games played on my main. 2) High mmr players know eachother, its not a large group 3) I am posting because 2 shotting cp 100s is incredibly boring and toxic to the community.

Ilision

de_la_Dude wrote: »

I solo queue and times are up for me (from ~1-2minutes to ~5-10minutes), but more worrisome is that my team seems to be versing two pre-mades every game. The games are a massacre even when my team is decent.

How can you check your own MMR? Is it per-character? I'm pretty sure I am low to middle tier atm unless my pre-50 matches affect post-50 matchmaking.

@de_la_Dude


Try harder

de_la_Dude

Ilision wrote: »

de_la_Dude wrote: »

I solo queue and times are up for me (from ~1-2minutes to ~5-10minutes), but more worrisome is that my team seems to be versing two pre-mades every game. The games are a massacre even when my team is decent.

How can you check your own MMR? Is it per-character? I'm pretty sure I am low to middle tier atm unless my pre-50 matches affect post-50 matchmaking.

@de_la_Dude


Try harder

Great contribution! Original and productive. Bravo

Olupajmibanan

How about removing MMR entirely and add ranked brackets where players can be matched only against players from the same bracket? BGs would be so much better. But hey, let's be stubborn like we always are?

HEBREWHAMMERRR

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

How about removing MMR entirely and add ranked brackets where players can be matched only against players from the same bracket? BGs would be so much better. But hey, let's be stubborn like we always are?

You mean the leaderboards wouldn’t be based off people who just play the most games? Because that, that, would make too much sense.

Olupajmibanan

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

How about removing MMR entirely and add ranked brackets where players can be matched only against players from the same bracket? BGs would be so much better. But hey, let's be stubborn like we always are?

You mean the leaderboards wouldn’t be based off people who just play the most games? Because that, that, would make too much sense.

That is exactly problem of MMR in ESO. In other games that are disgned specificaly as PvP-only games, MMR can go up but also down depending on your performance. That way, matches are balanced in long term. But here, MMR can go only up and it goes always up after every match no matter how bad you were. I don't know whose "brilliant" idea was to create cumulative matchmaking system.

Judging from how BG and Emperor leaderboards work, I guess that ZoS is extremely scarred of changes in community behaviour. The more competitive the PvP environment gets, the more toxic community tends to become. In order to avoid this, they decided to not make competitive PvP at all leaving it as for fun option only. They are able to create competitive environment, trial and arena leadorbards are proof of that, but they decided to not apply this to PvP.That's of course only my guess.

Rezdayn

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