Speed Boost / Additive Speed Issues

Casterial

So, I don't mind majority of the patch. The biggest thing I'm trying to get over is as a Stamplar nerfing jabs slow to 40% from 70% (On every hit now - I don't care that it was on last hit, it still always almost hit).

The reason I think that jabs slow nerf was bad is that any speed boost almost counters the slow. So, a 40% jabs is now negated by any speed boost, while the 70% would still be quite effective.
Using a skill like Hurricane you can't really rely on jabs as much because they can just kite out of your way.
Also, if you use major expedition, or minor with Unstoppable, now you can basically sprint around with Unstoppable again.

If you don't know speed buffs and slows are now additive, so if you have a 100 speed and get slowed by 30% you should be at around 70% movement? With Minor you're 10% of the total.
Meaning you should be 80%, however I think its not working as intended. Unstoppable for example you aren't really slowed at all, literally you're quite movable now.

So, when I jab someone they should be slowed 40% if they have minor thats ~10%? to that? So, they should be slowed 30%; however, currently on live its not that way... or so it seems?
TLDR, it could be a bug. Speed boost seems to effective to counter slows, or additive speed isn't working properly?

Player sourced snares are now additive with movement speed, rather than multiplicative. This will reduce the overall effectiveness of snares in PvP scenarios.

Casterial

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler could you provide some insight?

ku5h

Templar snares not good enough!?! Oooook.

Lughlongarm

Casterial wrote: »

So, I don't mind majority of the patch. The biggest thing I'm trying to get over is as a Stamplar nerfing jabs slow to 40% from 70% (On every hit now - I don't care that it was on last hit, it still always almost hit).

The reason I think that jabs slow nerf was bad is that any speed boost almost counters the slow. So, a 40% jabs is now negated by any speed boost, while the 70% would still be quite effective.
Using a skill like Hurricane you can't really rely on jabs as much because they can just kite out of your way.
Also, if you use major expedition, or minor with Unstoppable, now you can basically sprint around with Unstoppable again.

If you don't know speed buffs and slows are now additive, so if you have a 100 speed and get slowed by 30% you should be at around 70% movement? With Minor you're 10% of the total.
Meaning you should be 80%, however I think its not working as intended. Unstoppable for example you aren't really slowed at all, literally you're quite movable now.

So, when I jab someone they should be slowed 40% if they have minor thats ~10%? to that? So, they should be slowed 30%; however, currently on live its not that way... or so it seems?
TLDR, it could be a bug. Speed boost seems to effective to counter slows, or additive speed isn't working properly?

Player sourced snares are now additive with movement speed, rather than multiplicative. This will reduce the overall effectiveness of snares in PvP scenarios.

Cannot say fir sure how the snare system operates ATM but on PTS both Immovable and Unstoppable Brute morphs seems buggy.

-Immovable will root you in-place(not snared, full root where you even can't dodge roll) and speed modifiers will not help with that.

-Unstoppable Brute will apply a self snare which does not seem to have any effect on the actual speed of the caster.

Not sure if this bug also got carried to live, but regardless, It does not reflect the overall situation with snares ATM which seems quite balanced and fair.

Rikumaru

Speed buffs should counter snares. It's one of the main reasons why magicka open world has been inferior to stamina solo open world for quite some time now (barring magicka sorc) (and yes I know RaT exists but it's only 2 seconds of snare immunity vs 4 from FM and 5 from shuffle).

It's one of the few good things this patch has actually done for the game. People can finally move properly again (mostly magicka) and not every single build in existence will need to rely on snare immunity anymore in order to move.

Casterial

ku5h wrote: »

Templar snares not good enough!?! Oooook.

It was nerfed. I prefer the old one a lot more, lol. The last one you had to finish jabs, that's fine. Now it's any hit but a sorc using hurricane just takes 30% and 40% slows and just jumps around like it's not slowed

Rikumaru wrote: »

Speed buffs should counter snares. It's one of the main reasons why magicka open world has been inferior to stamina solo open world for quite some time now (barring magicka sorc) (and yes I know RaT exists but it's only 2 seconds of snare immunity vs 4 from FM and 5 from shuffle).

It's one of the few good things this patch has actually done for the game. People can finally move properly again (mostly magicka) and not every single build in existence will need to rely on snare immunity anymore in order to move.

But it's buggy, why can a 10% movement speed ignore a 40% snare, it should be 30% like putting a 30% speed boost on ignores the 90% from unstoppable.


I do agree it's a healthy change, but it seems buggy by itself currently. It's not additive, it's 100% ignoring or feels like it is.

It doesn't feel like it works properly. You can apply 40% they'll put up 10% movement, they'll move fast and normal like 0 slows hit them.

Assuming normal movement is 100.00

You apply 40% which drops them to 60.00

They apply minor that adds 10% so that should boost them to 66.00, right?

I think ZOS is doing it the other way, not applying on speed after snare, but speed before and then the snare affect happens.

Example, 100 * 40% = 60.00, +10% = 70.00

But right now it seems like the bonus speed is applied and once applied almost nullifies the speed reduction as if it didn't happen.

I'll test more tonight.


Btw, this isnt asking for "buffs" it's just seeing if anyone else noticed this.
Also, to the other who mentioned the bugs of unstoppable and morphs, perhaps that's it.

I notice this mainly because I do run jabs, which has a slow to make the spammable land.

ExistingRug61

Casterial wrote: »

Assuming normal movement is 100.00

You apply 40% which drops them to 60.00

They apply minor that adds 10% so that should boost them to 66.00, right?

This is how it used to work - multiplicative between buffs (which are additive with each other) and snares.
Speed% = (100 + sum of speed buffs)*(100 - highest snare)

Casterial wrote: »

I think ZOS is doing it the other way, not applying on speed after snare, but speed before and then the snare affect happens.

Example, 100 * 40% = 60.00, +10% = 70.00

This is how it should be now - all additive.
Speed% = 100 + sum of speed buffs - highest snare

So they should still be snared so if there is no change in their movement speed then something isn't correct.

Is it possible the sorc also has a source of major exp?
In that case they would still be at normal speed (ie: 100 + 10 (minor) + 30 (major) - 40 (snare) = 100%)

One other thing to note is that if they are stacking lots of sources of speed snares will have comparatively less effect than they used to when it was multiplicative.
ie: If the player has major and minor exp, steed and 3x swift they are at 168% movement speed. In this case if you apply your 40% snare they are still at 128% movement speed. Which is a less noticeable reduction comparatively than if you had applied your snare to someone who is only a base speed, as you only actually reduced their speed by ~25% when compared to their starting 168% movement speed. Previously when it was multiplicative your 40% snare would have reduced this player to 0.6*168 = 100.8%, which is a much more noticeable drop.

MentalxHammer

Lmao the only kid on the internet angry about a slight jabs nerf....

Casterial

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Lmao the only kid on the internet angry about a slight jabs nerf....

Nah, the worst spammable in the game carried by 3 different passives to be good and everyone hates it?

You should play Templar and see how bad jabs really is, but the topic isn't just about jabs I wish you had the ability to read everything including comments before jumping to conclusions.

Casterial

So, I think the additive speed is always off the base (eg 100) instead of current. So slow should be applied to current just as speed boost.

So if you're 40% slowed off 100 that should drop you to 60 speed.

But because movement speed boost is also based off base you go down to 90 instead of 78.

So, additive should be based off of current and not base.

Current would be
100-40=60+18=78
Base is
100+30-40=90

You also have the issue where speed is always priority over a slow, so speed is always based off base and not current.

llElLoboll

I tested quick cloak yesterday to see if the major expedition would counter a 30% snare and it didn't. I could just be misunderstanding the snare vs movement speed change but I don't think snares are working properly right now.

Casterial

llElLoboll wrote: »

I tested quick cloak yesterday to see if the major expedition would counter a 30% snare and it didn't. I could just be misunderstanding the snare vs movement speed change but I don't think snares are working properly right now.

Yeah, we'd need a dev to provide insight, which is why I tagged them originally. Sadly ZOS devs hide.

MentalxHammer

Casterial wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Lmao the only kid on the internet angry about a slight jabs nerf....

Nah, the worst spammable in the game carried by 3 different passives to be good and everyone hates it?

You should play Templar and see how bad jabs really is, but the topic isn't just about jabs I wish you had the ability to read everything including comments before jumping to conclusions.

I play templar, my jabs melt

ExistingRug61

Casterial wrote: »

So, I think the additive speed is always off the base (eg 100) instead of current. So slow should be applied to current just as speed boost.

So if you're 40% slowed off 100 that should drop you to 60 speed.

But because movement speed boost is also based off base you go down to 90 instead of 78.

So, additive should be based off of current and not base.

Current would be
100-40=60+18=78
Base is
100+30-40=90

You also have the issue where speed is always priority over a slow, so speed is always based off base and not current.

@Casterial
If it is a purely additive calculation (as implied by the patch notes) the boost/snare doesn't consider if it is off the base or the current speed value. It simply starts at 100% (base) and adds or subtracts the modifiers as listed from that - it does not apply the modifiers as percentages to the value as this would be a multiplicative calculation.

So in your example of a 40% snare on someone with major expedition (+30%) then
100+30-40=90% speed is the intended result under the current update.
(or you can think of it as 100-40=60 +30=90 if you want to consider the snare first, but the order of operations doesn't matter in a purely additive calculation)
Your suggestion that it should result in 78% speed is not how it should work currently, as you have applied the +30% multiplicatively to the 60%, not additively. This is how the system used to work under the previous update (when snares and speed buffs were multiplicative with each other).

This is why @llElLoboll has tried testing a 30% snare vs quick cloak (+30% buff), as in this scenario should result in normal speed (ie: 100-30+30=100). However, if that is not the case as he has suggested then something is not working as intended.

JonnytheKing

Casterial wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Lmao the only kid on the internet angry about a slight jabs nerf....

Nah, the worst spammable in the game carried by 3 different passives to be good and everyone hates it?

You should play Templar and see how bad jabs really is, but the topic isn't just about jabs I wish you had the ability to read everything including comments before jumping to conclusions.

lol you have no idea

Casterial

JonnytheKing wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Lmao the only kid on the internet angry about a slight jabs nerf....

Nah, the worst spammable in the game carried by 3 different passives to be good and everyone hates it?

You should play Templar and see how bad jabs really is, but the topic isn't just about jabs I wish you had the ability to read everything including comments before jumping to conclusions.

lol you have no idea

I mean I do? Lol useless comment to the topic.

An additive should be applied to current, not base. Especially in games.

As it's implied it's a percentage, so it should calculate first applied so for example:

40% snare would mean 40 off 100
100-40=60

Your current speed is 60, you then add a speed boost which is 30% of CURRENT. That means 30% of 60 is 18
60+18=78

However say the speed boost was used first that's off BASE. 100+30=130, now a 40% snare is applied off the current 130 - 52 =78.


So no matter what the snare should be additive properly off the current and not base. Doing it off the base completely nullifies all snares in the game because you'd be doing almost no slow, this is a case where you'd apply unstoppable, well now you're just a movable tank because you used a 30% move speed buff.

When I programmed games I never did off base, I did off current. That's how I got multiple buffs / debuffs to have a proper feel to them. For example, a 30% movement and a 50% movement stacked, BASE+30% = newBase + 50%, or whatever order it was applied in.


This just allows for better feel of the game. It means you need to build for diverse. But now you can be super mobile, int he patch of tanks, it's the patch of speedy tanks?

@ExistingRug61

I get what you're saying, it's now always based off current, but for gameplay that just removed IMO a skill level of being able to free from snares.

@ZOS_Gilliam could you confirm?

jcm2606

Casterial wrote: »

JonnytheKing wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Lmao the only kid on the internet angry about a slight jabs nerf....

Nah, the worst spammable in the game carried by 3 different passives to be good and everyone hates it?

You should play Templar and see how bad jabs really is, but the topic isn't just about jabs I wish you had the ability to read everything including comments before jumping to conclusions.

lol you have no idea

I mean I do? Lol useless comment to the topic.

An additive should be applied to current, not base. Especially in games.

As it's implied it's a percentage, so it should calculate first applied so for example:

40% snare would mean 40 off 100
100-40=60

Your current speed is 60, you then add a speed boost which is 30% of CURRENT. That means 30% of 60 is 18
60+18=78

However say the speed boost was used first that's off BASE. 100+30=130, now a 40% snare is applied off the current 130 - 52 =78.


So no matter what the snare should be additive properly off the current and not base. Doing it off the base completely nullifies all snares in the game because you'd be doing almost no slow, this is a case where you'd apply unstoppable, well now you're just a movable tank because you used a 30% move speed buff.

When I programmed games I never did off base, I did off current. That's how I got multiple buffs / debuffs to have a proper feel to them. For example, a 30% movement and a 50% movement stacked, BASE+30% = newBase + 50%, or whatever order it was applied in.


This just allows for better feel of the game. It means you need to build for diverse. But now you can be super mobile, int he patch of tanks, it's the patch of speedy tanks?

@ExistingRug61

I get what you're saying, it's now always based off current, but for gameplay that just removed IMO a skill level of being able to free from snares.

@ZOS_Gilliam could you confirm?

As @ExistingRug61 said, you've got it backwards. Additive is just a summation, it's just the addition of all terms together, where subtractions are just the additions of negatives (ie `1.0 - 0.5 == 1.0 + -0.5`). Multiplicative cares about subsequent operations, while additive doesn't, ie:

// Multiplicative:
1.0 * 1.3 * 0.6 = 1.3 * 0.6 = 0.78

// Additive:
1.0 + 0.3 - 0.4 = 1.3 - 0.4 = 0.9

Under a multiplicative approach, builds that stacked higher move speed where hit disproportionately harder by snares, while under an additive approach, both are hit by the exact same amount, ie:

// 40% snare on both tests

// Multiplicative:

//   Base Move Speed (100%):
1.0 * 1.0 * 0.4 = 1.0 * 0.4 =  0.4
// Move speed is reduced by 40%

//   Major Exped (130%):
1.0 * 1.3 * 0.4 = 1.3 * 0.4 =  0.52
// Move speed is reduced by 52%

// Additive:

// Since this is additive, we're going to need to calculate
// the move speed reduction a bit differently.
// What we'll do is take the resulting move speed, and subtract
// it from the move speed after bonuses, ie Major Exped, have been applied.
// This will give us just the reduction.

//   Base Move Speed (100%):
1.0 + 0.0 - 0.6 = 1.0 - 0.4 = 0.6 = 1.0 - 0.6 = 0.4
// Move speed is reduced by 40%

//   Major Exped (130%):
1.0 + 0.3 - 0.6 = 1.3 - 0.4 = 0.9 = 1.3 - 0.9 = 0.4
// Move speed is reduced by 40%

As you can see, both approaches give the same reduction at base move speed, but two different reductions when Major Expedition is present. Specifically, multiplicative seemingly adds an additional 12% reduction out of nowhere, due to how the calculation actually works. This difference will get larger as move speed is increased, and should be doubled at the speed cap.

With the additive approach, snares are now weaker against builds stacking move speed, but, IMO, they're more balanced. Just because I'm stacking move speed, your snare shouldn't suddenly go from 40% to 52% or higher, for seemingly no reason, other than just math shenanigans. So, IMO, the new approach is better for balance, and is also a little easier on the servers, as additions/subtractions are typically faster than multiplications.

I have heard different things regarding how snares are actually performing, though. In this thread, you're saying that snares seem considerably weaker to you, while I'm hearing that they're considerably stronger from other people. So, I'd just chalk it up to snares being broken, and I'd be crossing my fingers for a fix in a timely manner.

EDIT: Jesus christ the code blocks on these forums are actual garbage.

Casterial

jcm2606 wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

JonnytheKing wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Lmao the only kid on the internet angry about a slight jabs nerf....

Nah, the worst spammable in the game carried by 3 different passives to be good and everyone hates it?

You should play Templar and see how bad jabs really is, but the topic isn't just about jabs I wish you had the ability to read everything including comments before jumping to conclusions.

lol you have no idea

I mean I do? Lol useless comment to the topic.

An additive should be applied to current, not base. Especially in games.

As it's implied it's a percentage, so it should calculate first applied so for example:

40% snare would mean 40 off 100
100-40=60

Your current speed is 60, you then add a speed boost which is 30% of CURRENT. That means 30% of 60 is 18
60+18=78

However say the speed boost was used first that's off BASE. 100+30=130, now a 40% snare is applied off the current 130 - 52 =78.


So no matter what the snare should be additive properly off the current and not base. Doing it off the base completely nullifies all snares in the game because you'd be doing almost no slow, this is a case where you'd apply unstoppable, well now you're just a movable tank because you used a 30% move speed buff.

When I programmed games I never did off base, I did off current. That's how I got multiple buffs / debuffs to have a proper feel to them. For example, a 30% movement and a 50% movement stacked, BASE+30% = newBase + 50%, or whatever order it was applied in.


This just allows for better feel of the game. It means you need to build for diverse. But now you can be super mobile, int he patch of tanks, it's the patch of speedy tanks?

@ExistingRug61

I get what you're saying, it's now always based off current, but for gameplay that just removed IMO a skill level of being able to free from snares.

@ZOS_Gilliam could you confirm?

As @ExistingRug61 said, you've got it backwards. Additive is just a summation, it's just the addition of all terms together, where subtractions are just the additions of negatives (ie `1.0 - 0.5 == 1.0 + -0.5`). Multiplicative cares about subsequent operations, while additive doesn't, ie:

// Multiplicative:
1.0 * 1.3 * 0.6 = 1.3 * 0.6 = 0.78

// Additive:
1.0 + 0.3 - 0.4 = 1.3 - 0.4 = 0.9

Under a multiplicative approach, builds that stacked higher move speed where hit disproportionately harder by snares, while under an additive approach, both are hit by the exact same amount, ie:

// 40% snare on both tests

// Multiplicative:

//   Base Move Speed (100%):
1.0 * 1.0 * 0.4 = 1.0 * 0.4 =  0.4
// Move speed is reduced by 40%

//   Major Exped (130%):
1.0 * 1.3 * 0.4 = 1.3 * 0.4 =  0.52
// Move speed is reduced by 52%

// Additive:

// Since this is additive, we're going to need to calculate
// the move speed reduction a bit differently.
// What we'll do is take the resulting move speed, and subtract
// it from the move speed after bonuses, ie Major Exped, have been applied.
// This will give us just the reduction.

//   Base Move Speed (100%):
1.0 + 0.0 - 0.6 = 1.0 - 0.4 = 0.6 = 1.0 - 0.6 = 0.
// Move speed is reduced by 40%

//   Major Exped (130%):
1.0 + 0.3 - 0.6 = 1.3 - 0.4 = 0.9 = 1.3 - 0.9 = 0.4
// Move speed is reduced by 40%

As you can see, both approaches give the same reduction at base move speed, but two different reductions when Major Expedition is present. Specifically, multiplicative seemingly adds an additional 12% reduction out of nowhere, due to how the calculation actually works. This difference will get larger as move speed is increased, and should be doubled at the speed cap.

With the additive approach, snares are now weaker against builds stacking move speed, but, IMO, they're more balanced. Just because I'm stacking move speed, your snare shouldn't suddenly go from 40% to 52% or higher, for seemingly no reason, other than just math shenanigans. So, IMO, the new approach is better for balance, and is also a little easier on the servers, as additions/subtractions are typically faster than multiplications.

I have heard different things regarding how snares are actually performing, though. In this thread, you're saying that snares seem considerably weaker to you, while I'm hearing that they're considerably stronger from other people. So, I'd just chalk it up to snares being broken, and I'd be crossing my fingers for a fix in a timely manner.

Snares don't stack, movement speed does. So under what you said I'll be taking a break from this game, sadly I thought ESO design finally was going in a good direction but this patch in itself is a joke.

The fact that I can apply 30% and 40% snare and it's countered by one speed boost already was a turn away. I didn't wanna believe ESO did the dumbest approach possible.

So, snares and DOTs are dead.

jcm2606

Casterial wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

JonnytheKing wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Lmao the only kid on the internet angry about a slight jabs nerf....

Nah, the worst spammable in the game carried by 3 different passives to be good and everyone hates it?

You should play Templar and see how bad jabs really is, but the topic isn't just about jabs I wish you had the ability to read everything including comments before jumping to conclusions.

lol you have no idea

I mean I do? Lol useless comment to the topic.

An additive should be applied to current, not base. Especially in games.

As it's implied it's a percentage, so it should calculate first applied so for example:

40% snare would mean 40 off 100
100-40=60

Your current speed is 60, you then add a speed boost which is 30% of CURRENT. That means 30% of 60 is 18
60+18=78

However say the speed boost was used first that's off BASE. 100+30=130, now a 40% snare is applied off the current 130 - 52 =78.


So no matter what the snare should be additive properly off the current and not base. Doing it off the base completely nullifies all snares in the game because you'd be doing almost no slow, this is a case where you'd apply unstoppable, well now you're just a movable tank because you used a 30% move speed buff.

When I programmed games I never did off base, I did off current. That's how I got multiple buffs / debuffs to have a proper feel to them. For example, a 30% movement and a 50% movement stacked, BASE+30% = newBase + 50%, or whatever order it was applied in.


This just allows for better feel of the game. It means you need to build for diverse. But now you can be super mobile, int he patch of tanks, it's the patch of speedy tanks?

@ExistingRug61

I get what you're saying, it's now always based off current, but for gameplay that just removed IMO a skill level of being able to free from snares.

@ZOS_Gilliam could you confirm?

As @ExistingRug61 said, you've got it backwards. Additive is just a summation, it's just the addition of all terms together, where subtractions are just the additions of negatives (ie `1.0 - 0.5 == 1.0 + -0.5`). Multiplicative cares about subsequent operations, while additive doesn't, ie:

// Multiplicative:
1.0 * 1.3 * 0.6 = 1.3 * 0.6 = 0.78

// Additive:
1.0 + 0.3 - 0.4 = 1.3 - 0.4 = 0.9

Under a multiplicative approach, builds that stacked higher move speed where hit disproportionately harder by snares, while under an additive approach, both are hit by the exact same amount, ie:

// 40% snare on both tests

// Multiplicative:

//   Base Move Speed (100%):
1.0 * 1.0 * 0.4 = 1.0 * 0.4 =  0.4
// Move speed is reduced by 40%

//   Major Exped (130%):
1.0 * 1.3 * 0.4 = 1.3 * 0.4 =  0.52
// Move speed is reduced by 52%

// Additive:

// Since this is additive, we're going to need to calculate
// the move speed reduction a bit differently.
// What we'll do is take the resulting move speed, and subtract
// it from the move speed after bonuses, ie Major Exped, have been applied.
// This will give us just the reduction.

//   Base Move Speed (100%):
1.0 + 0.0 - 0.6 = 1.0 - 0.4 = 0.6 = 1.0 - 0.6 = 0.
// Move speed is reduced by 40%

//   Major Exped (130%):
1.0 + 0.3 - 0.6 = 1.3 - 0.4 = 0.9 = 1.3 - 0.9 = 0.4
// Move speed is reduced by 40%

As you can see, both approaches give the same reduction at base move speed, but two different reductions when Major Expedition is present. Specifically, multiplicative seemingly adds an additional 12% reduction out of nowhere, due to how the calculation actually works. This difference will get larger as move speed is increased, and should be doubled at the speed cap.

With the additive approach, snares are now weaker against builds stacking move speed, but, IMO, they're more balanced. Just because I'm stacking move speed, your snare shouldn't suddenly go from 40% to 52% or higher, for seemingly no reason, other than just math shenanigans. So, IMO, the new approach is better for balance, and is also a little easier on the servers, as additions/subtractions are typically faster than multiplications.

I have heard different things regarding how snares are actually performing, though. In this thread, you're saying that snares seem considerably weaker to you, while I'm hearing that they're considerably stronger from other people. So, I'd just chalk it up to snares being broken, and I'd be crossing my fingers for a fix in a timely manner.

Snares don't stack, movement speed does. So under what you said I'll be taking a break from this game, sadly I thought ESO design finally was going in a good direction but this patch in itself is a joke.

The fact that I can apply 30% and 40% snare and it's countered by one speed boost already was a turn away. I didn't wanna believe ESO did the dumbest approach possible.

So, snares and DOTs are dead.

Snares don't stack because of the sheer prevalence of them. The amount of snares by far outweighs the amount of speed buffs, and the reapplication cost is so low, that if one gets cleansed, you can apply another for dirt cheap.

If snares stacked, you could fully lock someone down on a Templar, bring them right down to near 0% move speed. Between jabs, the AoE snare, Reflective Light, Rending, Bombard, etc, you have at least 100-110% move speed reduction on just 3 skills at any given time (jabs, Reflective Light or Rending, any of the Restoring Light AoE's), all of which can be kept up indefinitely and reapplied nearly instantly if someone cleanses and lets their immunity drop.

High move speed builds are meant to be hard to catch, that's the whole idea of them. Snares alone shouldn't render them completely inert, you should have to put effort in to catch them, between using high reduction snares, roots, and CC. Don't forget, Templar has a CC and a gap close in one, that can be used to keep up with a high move speed build, and potentially stun them if you time it right.