Stonefist 5.2.5 on Live server

Davadin

I really tried to like this skill, and I will continue to try it out in both PvE and PvP.... after all, it's only been a few hours.

But here's my problem with this skill so far.
1. Cost is too high. Yes, even with the stam return. Because we have limited space on our bar and we will compare it to other "spammable" (ZOS term), and it compares very poorly in terms of cost vs damage.
2. The stagger can't be sustained. It clears after it stuns or times out. It needs to stay. Yes, it's "affect ALL damage!", but it doesn't scale at all, and at max 135 damage ONLY when it stacks 3 for 5 seconds, it's a poor gain.
3. Ok this is beating a dead horse: it needs to have a faster animation. It should be a melee skill. Ranged projectile doesn't work on multiple level for multiple reasons. Go check out PTS sub-forum for details.


TLDR; i appreciate the effort, but as it stands, it's eclipsed by ALL other spammable, and hence it's useless once again. Absolutely useless.


Again, i'll keep trying. Maybe in a trial it makes a difference with a dozen DPS pounding on it and woooohooo gets 135 dmg on everything, so we'll see.

Davadin

Bonk.

Couple weeks in.

PvE
It's interesting. The stacked damage does increase my DPS, and I saw someone posted with Flurry, each hit will be increased, so that's nice.
I've tested on a 3M dummy, a trial dummy, and it shows about 5% increase, but my rotation isn't that great.

But realistically, in a vet dungeon or open world dragons or World Boss... this skill feels NICE. Like, 10k guaranteed, critting at around 16~17k......
... FROM A RANGE.

Yes, I went completely 180 on the range thing. Yes, it does have travel delay and the animation is crappy, but when I actually LAND more hits thanks to it being a range, my DPS increases significantly.

On a trial specifically where DPS matters especially on boss-fights, it's somewhat negligible though. with everyone buffed to the max, the flat 135-damage does seem pale in comparison.

Summary: It's a great option for spammable, and will deliver more than it promised in MOST PvE encounters. It can hold on its own weight in front of other spammables, but by no means it's a guaranteed BiS.

PvP
This is where it gets wonky. I'm actually liking the fact it lands more often than, say, Dizzying since it's a range.
But 2 things:
1. it's not strong enough like Dizzy that merits it as a "burst spammable". it's kinda hard to build a combo around it. It can put pressure and sustain ur damage output, but it doesn't have enough *ooomph*. Yes, even with the silly stun.
2. it simply costs too much. in PvP where CP is involved and u get poisoned and defiled and CC'd left and right, my stamina runs out too fast......

Summary: it's situational. u want a ranged spammable to keep pressure? sure. medium DPS-build to burst? nope.

Anyway, something quick to throw before i leave from work.....

chrightt

I think stonefist is pretty good PVE skill already (It also buffs your allies’ attacks). I’ve seen a few people actually lobbing stones around in Cyrodiil where CP makes you innately bulky enough for stonefist to work. Don’t see it too much in BG as expected cause no CP there. Overall definitely a decent skill right now, certainly better than a lot of the garbage out there and definitely doesn’t deserve all that hate as I have said before (but what did I expect from ESO community, especially the DK portion).

Xvorg

Davadin wrote: »

Bonk.

Couple weeks in.

PvE
It's interesting. The stacked damage does increase my DPS, and I saw someone posted with Flurry, each hit will be increased, so that's nice.
I've tested on a 3M dummy, a trial dummy, and it shows about 5% increase, but my rotation isn't that great.

But realistically, in a vet dungeon or open world dragons or World Boss... this skill feels NICE. Like, 10k guaranteed, critting at around 16~17k......
... FROM A RANGE.

Yes, I went completely 180 on the range thing. Yes, it does have travel delay and the animation is crappy, but when I actually LAND more hits thanks to it being a range, my DPS increases significantly.

On a trial specifically where DPS matters especially on boss-fights, it's somewhat negligible though. with everyone buffed to the max, the flat 135-damage does seem pale in comparison.

Summary: It's a great option for spammable, and will deliver more than it promised in MOST PvE encounters. It can hold on its own weight in front of other spammables, but by no means it's a guaranteed BiS.

PvP
This is where it gets wonky. I'm actually liking the fact it lands more often than, say, Dizzying since it's a range.
But 2 things:
1. it's not strong enough like Dizzy that merits it as a "burst spammable". it's kinda hard to build a combo around it. It can put pressure and sustain ur damage output, but it doesn't have enough *ooomph*. Yes, even with the silly stun.
2. it simply costs too much. in PvP where CP is involved and u get poisoned and defiled and CC'd left and right, my stamina runs out too fast......

Summary: it's situational. u want a ranged spammable to keep pressure? sure. medium DPS-build to burst? nope.

Anyway, something quick to throw before i leave from work.....

That's the first thing I said, my dear. Paired with ruffian seems nice

Some years ago I used it in a combo with old silver leash: leash, rock, leash, flurry. Then ZoS made it a magicka skill...

Davadin

Xvorg wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Bonk.

Couple weeks in.

PvE
It's interesting. The stacked damage does increase my DPS, and I saw someone posted with Flurry, each hit will be increased, so that's nice.
I've tested on a 3M dummy, a trial dummy, and it shows about 5% increase, but my rotation isn't that great.

But realistically, in a vet dungeon or open world dragons or World Boss... this skill feels NICE. Like, 10k guaranteed, critting at around 16~17k......
... FROM A RANGE.

Yes, I went completely 180 on the range thing. Yes, it does have travel delay and the animation is crappy, but when I actually LAND more hits thanks to it being a range, my DPS increases significantly.

On a trial specifically where DPS matters especially on boss-fights, it's somewhat negligible though. with everyone buffed to the max, the flat 135-damage does seem pale in comparison.

Summary: It's a great option for spammable, and will deliver more than it promised in MOST PvE encounters. It can hold on its own weight in front of other spammables, but by no means it's a guaranteed BiS.

PvP
This is where it gets wonky. I'm actually liking the fact it lands more often than, say, Dizzying since it's a range.
But 2 things:
1. it's not strong enough like Dizzy that merits it as a "burst spammable". it's kinda hard to build a combo around it. It can put pressure and sustain ur damage output, but it doesn't have enough *ooomph*. Yes, even with the silly stun.
2. it simply costs too much. in PvP where CP is involved and u get poisoned and defiled and CC'd left and right, my stamina runs out too fast......

Summary: it's situational. u want a ranged spammable to keep pressure? sure. medium DPS-build to burst? nope.

Anyway, something quick to throw before i leave from work.....

That's the first thing I said, my dear. Paired with ruffian seems nice

Some years ago I used it in a combo with old silver leash: leash, rock, leash, flurry. Then ZoS made it a magicka skill...

sorry bruh i totally forgot and cant find the source.

Ragnarock41

What makes this ability feel worse than d swing is the fact that it has a travel time in my opinion. (And off balance is a much stronger damage amp with much less effort, also an easier stun)

The tooltip is good enough , the stagger is unfortunately useless in PvP, the stun is very unreliable.

This spammable is very similar to dizzying swing but worse in many ways when it comes to secondary benefits. FYI the off-balance proc in CP will net you a lot higher damage and it will give you an easier stun that also gives you sustain.

The range bonus is a helper in PvE but not melee so it also means the stun is even more unreliable because well... Reflects and absorbing is a thing. Also travel time gives it an extra window to be cloaked ,dodged or blocked, even at melee range.

Xvorg

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

What makes this ability feel worse than d swing is the fact that it has a travel time in my opinion. (And off balance is a much stronger damage amp with much less effort, also an easier stun)

The tooltip is good enough , the stagger is unfortunately useless in PvP, the stun is very unreliable.

This spammable is very similar to dizzying swing but worse in many ways when it comes to secondary benefits. FYI the off-balance proc in CP will net you a lot higher damage and it will give you an easier stun that also gives you sustain.

The range bonus is a helper in PvE but not melee so it also means the stun is even more unreliable because well... Reflects and absorbing is a thing. Also travel time gives it an extra window to be cloaked ,dodged or blocked, even at melee range.

I would like a rework similar to Perforate on Path of exile: a rock spike coming from earth. That way you avoid the traveling time and the skill is still a semi ranged spammable.

And I'd gladly trade the stun after stagger for a knock into the air, like volcanic rune

Davadin

Xvorg wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

What makes this ability feel worse than d swing is the fact that it has a travel time in my opinion. (And off balance is a much stronger damage amp with much less effort, also an easier stun)

The tooltip is good enough , the stagger is unfortunately useless in PvP, the stun is very unreliable.

This spammable is very similar to dizzying swing but worse in many ways when it comes to secondary benefits. FYI the off-balance proc in CP will net you a lot higher damage and it will give you an easier stun that also gives you sustain.

The range bonus is a helper in PvE but not melee so it also means the stun is even more unreliable because well... Reflects and absorbing is a thing. Also travel time gives it an extra window to be cloaked ,dodged or blocked, even at melee range.

I would like a rework similar to Perforate on Path of exile: a rock spike coming from earth. That way you avoid the traveling time and the skill is still a semi ranged spammable.

And I'd gladly trade the stun after stagger for a knock into the air, like volcanic rune

OH YES!

But animation (and travelling time and cancelled/LOS problem) aside, my main issue is still the cost....

Davadin

Xvorg wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

What makes this ability feel worse than d swing is the fact that it has a travel time in my opinion. (And off balance is a much stronger damage amp with much less effort, also an easier stun)

The tooltip is good enough , the stagger is unfortunately useless in PvP, the stun is very unreliable.

This spammable is very similar to dizzying swing but worse in many ways when it comes to secondary benefits. FYI the off-balance proc in CP will net you a lot higher damage and it will give you an easier stun that also gives you sustain.

The range bonus is a helper in PvE but not melee so it also means the stun is even more unreliable because well... Reflects and absorbing is a thing. Also travel time gives it an extra window to be cloaked ,dodged or blocked, even at melee range.

I would like a rework similar to Perforate on Path of exile: a rock spike coming from earth. That way you avoid the traveling time and the skill is still a semi ranged spammable.

And I'd gladly trade the stun after stagger for a knock into the air, like volcanic rune

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RobGarrett

please read this.

Ragnarock41

Xvorg wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

What makes this ability feel worse than d swing is the fact that it has a travel time in my opinion. (And off balance is a much stronger damage amp with much less effort, also an easier stun)

The tooltip is good enough , the stagger is unfortunately useless in PvP, the stun is very unreliable.

This spammable is very similar to dizzying swing but worse in many ways when it comes to secondary benefits. FYI the off-balance proc in CP will net you a lot higher damage and it will give you an easier stun that also gives you sustain.

The range bonus is a helper in PvE but not melee so it also means the stun is even more unreliable because well... Reflects and absorbing is a thing. Also travel time gives it an extra window to be cloaked ,dodged or blocked, even at melee range.

I would like a rework similar to Perforate on Path of exile: a rock spike coming from earth. That way you avoid the traveling time and the skill is still a semi ranged spammable.

And I'd gladly trade the stun after stagger for a knock into the air, like volcanic rune

Personally, I would prefer it being a melee spammable since there won't be much of a range difference (Dk gets improved melee range)

But knowing zenimax that is unlikely. So... lets get real, how would I like my ranged spammable then?

With a reliable secondary effect(maybe make this a double phase ability like lava whip so I don't have to land it 3 times on the same target? Honestly If I could just cast it like 2 times and then on the third cast, It becomes another ability that stuns, that sort of thing would be RELIABLE, and reliable is key for PvP.) and bonus points for no projectile involved so my ''class identity'' doesn't bounce back by spell wall or absorbed by shimmering shield.

Edit: I really don't know what that ability looks like since I don't play Path of Exile(still a die hard diablo 2 fan btw), I would really appreciate it if you could you show me an example for me to better understand what kind of ability you're talking about.

Davadin

i wonder if Xvorg's idea of rock spike in a distance can be coded as Melee? if it's instantenous and zero "flight delay". just have a max range.


that'll make it reliable.

the stun like volcanic rune seems a bit OP, but hell yeah if i can get knockback with this skill.

i mean, for 3.3k+ stamina cost, it better be worth it.........

Xvorg

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

What makes this ability feel worse than d swing is the fact that it has a travel time in my opinion. (And off balance is a much stronger damage amp with much less effort, also an easier stun)

The tooltip is good enough , the stagger is unfortunately useless in PvP, the stun is very unreliable.

This spammable is very similar to dizzying swing but worse in many ways when it comes to secondary benefits. FYI the off-balance proc in CP will net you a lot higher damage and it will give you an easier stun that also gives you sustain.

The range bonus is a helper in PvE but not melee so it also means the stun is even more unreliable because well... Reflects and absorbing is a thing. Also travel time gives it an extra window to be cloaked ,dodged or blocked, even at melee range.

I would like a rework similar to Perforate on Path of exile: a rock spike coming from earth. That way you avoid the traveling time and the skill is still a semi ranged spammable.

And I'd gladly trade the stun after stagger for a knock into the air, like volcanic rune

Personally, I would prefer it being a melee spammable since there won't be much of a range difference (Dk gets improved melee range)

But knowing zenimax that is unlikely. So... lets get real, how would I like my ranged spammable then?

With a reliable secondary effect(maybe make this a double phase ability like lava whip so I don't have to land it 3 times on the same target? Honestly If I could just cast it like 2 times and then on the third cast, It becomes another ability that stuns, that sort of thing would be RELIABLE, and reliable is key for PvP.) and bonus points for no projectile involved so my ''class identity'' doesn't bounce back by spell wall or absorbed by shimmering shield.

Edit: I really don't know what that ability looks like since I don't play Path of Exile(still a die hard diablo 2 fan btw), I would really appreciate it if you could you show me an example for me to better understand what kind of ability you're talking about.

The one in the left. It can be used in melee or range. The main issue is that it is an AoE there, and here it should be a single target skill

here's a gif showing more or less how it works




(also a D2 fan here... happy with new D4 Dudu comeback )

Ragnarock41

Xvorg wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

What makes this ability feel worse than d swing is the fact that it has a travel time in my opinion. (And off balance is a much stronger damage amp with much less effort, also an easier stun)

The tooltip is good enough , the stagger is unfortunately useless in PvP, the stun is very unreliable.

This spammable is very similar to dizzying swing but worse in many ways when it comes to secondary benefits. FYI the off-balance proc in CP will net you a lot higher damage and it will give you an easier stun that also gives you sustain.

The range bonus is a helper in PvE but not melee so it also means the stun is even more unreliable because well... Reflects and absorbing is a thing. Also travel time gives it an extra window to be cloaked ,dodged or blocked, even at melee range.

I would like a rework similar to Perforate on Path of exile: a rock spike coming from earth. That way you avoid the traveling time and the skill is still a semi ranged spammable.

And I'd gladly trade the stun after stagger for a knock into the air, like volcanic rune

Personally, I would prefer it being a melee spammable since there won't be much of a range difference (Dk gets improved melee range)

But knowing zenimax that is unlikely. So... lets get real, how would I like my ranged spammable then?

With a reliable secondary effect(maybe make this a double phase ability like lava whip so I don't have to land it 3 times on the same target? Honestly If I could just cast it like 2 times and then on the third cast, It becomes another ability that stuns, that sort of thing would be RELIABLE, and reliable is key for PvP.) and bonus points for no projectile involved so my ''class identity'' doesn't bounce back by spell wall or absorbed by shimmering shield.

Edit: I really don't know what that ability looks like since I don't play Path of Exile(still a die hard diablo 2 fan btw), I would really appreciate it if you could you show me an example for me to better understand what kind of ability you're talking about.

The one in the left. It can be used in melee or range. The main issue is that it is an AoE there, and here it should be a single target skill

here's a gif showing more or less how it works




(also a D2 fan here... happy with new D4 Dudu comeback )

It looks allright, I guess.(anythings allright compared to stonefist ) AoE shouldn't be a problem, quite the opposite actually, if StamDk's terrific lack of group utility is to be taken into account an AoE of some sort would be very welcome. I was personally hoping for stamina inhale but that would do just fine too.

The blood version looks pretty neat, not sure about the sand one though.

Davadin

i could be volcanic rocks if we're staying with the theme, instead of sands or blood...........

but damn that looks wicked!

Xvorg

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

What makes this ability feel worse than d swing is the fact that it has a travel time in my opinion. (And off balance is a much stronger damage amp with much less effort, also an easier stun)

The tooltip is good enough , the stagger is unfortunately useless in PvP, the stun is very unreliable.

This spammable is very similar to dizzying swing but worse in many ways when it comes to secondary benefits. FYI the off-balance proc in CP will net you a lot higher damage and it will give you an easier stun that also gives you sustain.

The range bonus is a helper in PvE but not melee so it also means the stun is even more unreliable because well... Reflects and absorbing is a thing. Also travel time gives it an extra window to be cloaked ,dodged or blocked, even at melee range.

I would like a rework similar to Perforate on Path of exile: a rock spike coming from earth. That way you avoid the traveling time and the skill is still a semi ranged spammable.

And I'd gladly trade the stun after stagger for a knock into the air, like volcanic rune

Personally, I would prefer it being a melee spammable since there won't be much of a range difference (Dk gets improved melee range)

But knowing zenimax that is unlikely. So... lets get real, how would I like my ranged spammable then?

With a reliable secondary effect(maybe make this a double phase ability like lava whip so I don't have to land it 3 times on the same target? Honestly If I could just cast it like 2 times and then on the third cast, It becomes another ability that stuns, that sort of thing would be RELIABLE, and reliable is key for PvP.) and bonus points for no projectile involved so my ''class identity'' doesn't bounce back by spell wall or absorbed by shimmering shield.

Edit: I really don't know what that ability looks like since I don't play Path of Exile(still a die hard diablo 2 fan btw), I would really appreciate it if you could you show me an example for me to better understand what kind of ability you're talking about.

The one in the left. It can be used in melee or range. The main issue is that it is an AoE there, and here it should be a single target skill

here's a gif showing more or less how it works




(also a D2 fan here... happy with new D4 Dudu comeback )

It looks allright, I guess.(anythings allright compared to stonefist ) AoE shouldn't be a problem, quite the opposite actually, if StamDk's terrific lack of group utility is to be taken into account an AoE of some sort would be very welcome. I was personally hoping for stamina inhale but that would do just fine too.

The blood version looks pretty neat, not sure about the sand one though.

It's wider and does les dmg.

https://youtu.be/jExGC-uXCKs?t=85

1:23 uses blood stance, 1:25 uses sand stance

Xvorg

Davadin wrote: »

i could be volcanic rocks if we're staying with the theme, instead of sands or blood...........

but damn that looks wicked!

I imagine it with the animation of igneous shield.

Luckylancer

Stun is supposed to be useless in pve, damage is supposed to be useless at pvp. It is how the skill is designed. Cost same with other homogenised spammables. Off balance damage increase that come with cp+Dizzy is not 10% damage increase for your dps. It is lower because it is diluated with other damage increases.

If you wont cast the skill on a target 3 times, can you call it spammable? You dont have 'but I am melee and it is hard to spam melee spammables againts mobile enemies'. You want to stun the target at first hit just because there is a stun in tooltip. But DKs are sustained damage class (class identity), so it is natural to cast it several times after you apply dots to pressure.

ecru

The cost is too high. It costs 50% more stamina than Biting Jabs, but Jabs does 50% more damage. Comparing the base damage per amount of stamina used, Stonefist has a ratio of 0.26, while Jabs has a ratio of 0.59, making it 125% more efficient in melee range. Realistically, Jabs cannot be weaved as fast as Stonefist, but it can get close, so in an actual fight in melee range, Jabs spam is probably around 100% more efficient than Stonefist.

I realize that Stonefist is ranged, but come on. This is an absurd difference.

Davadin

Luckylancer wrote: »

Stun is supposed to be useless in pve, damage is supposed to be useless at pvp. It is how the skill is designed. Cost same with other homogenised spammables. Off balance damage increase that come with cp+Dizzy is not 10% damage increase for your dps. It is lower because it is diluated with other damage increases.

If you wont cast the skill on a target 3 times, can you call it spammable? You dont have 'but I am melee and it is hard to spam melee spammables againts mobile enemies'. You want to stun the target at first hit just because there is a stun in tooltip. But DKs are sustained damage class (class identity), so it is natural to cast it several times after you apply dots to pressure.

what's your point, bro? lol

Davadin

ecru wrote: »

The cost is too high. It costs 50% more stamina than Biting Jabs, but Jabs does 50% more damage. Comparing the base damage per amount of stamina used, Stonefist has a ratio of 0.26, while Jabs has a ratio of 0.59, making it 125% more efficient in melee range. Realistically, Jabs cannot be weaved as fast as Stonefist, but it can get close, so in an actual fight in melee range, Jabs spam is probably around 100% more efficient than Stonefist.

I realize that Stonefist is ranged, but come on. This is an absurd difference.

incredibly.

Luckylancer

@Davadin people get emotional and start producing *** arguments againts what they hate. This mob atack againts decent/average skill annoys me.

Ragnarock41

Luckylancer wrote: »

If you wont cast the skill on a target 3 times, can you call it spammable? You dont have 'but I am melee and it is hard to spam melee spammables againts mobile enemies'. You want to stun the target at first hit just because there is a stun in tooltip. But DKs are sustained damage class (class identity), so it is natural to cast it several times after you apply dots to pressure.

Thats not how combat works in this game. You just set your expectations on the hope that your enemy will sit idle, will not block,dodge, move around, strike back, cloak, purge, use shimmering shield/spell wall etc.

Key thing about CC abilities is their RELIABILITY.

You use a stun first(and you use your stun ON COOLDOWN, every 7 seconds, to get maximum pressure out of it), then you use your spammable on a target that can't respond to it so you get him low hp.

From the way your post describes it, I get the expression you're the type of player that sits behind a group of people while spamming a single button, thinking thats how combat works.

Perhaps you're a templar main? Or a snipe spammer?

I do solo PvP, I do small scale. I used stonefist with/without a CC slotted and the moment I started using it in combination with a stun my kill pressure was instantly improved. You may call me emotional and whatever however I speak from experience, not emotion.

My comparission of uppercut versus stonefist is as objective as it can get.

Davadin

i say just remove the stun. we already have fossilized, which works great. (but does it need THAT much of a cost increased nerf??)

make stonefist a true spammable... fast, cheap, consistent, solid DPS, no funky trinkets side-effects. it already triggered minor brutality when executed.

Xvorg

Davadin wrote: »

i say just remove the stun. we already have fossilized, which works great. (but does it need THAT much of a cost increased nerf??)

make stonefist a true spammable... fast, cheap, consistent, solid DPS, no funky trinkets side-effects. it already triggered minor brutality when executed.

Yup.

I never got the idea behind 2 stuns in the same line. Granted, Foss used to be a disorient, but when they turned every disorient skill into stuns, there was pointless to keep Stone Fist and Foss in the same line doing basically the same.

Davadin

what the heck is disorient? off-balance?

oh wait.

Xvorg

Davadin wrote: »

what the heck is disorient? off-balance?

oh wait.

xD

I liked the concept. In fact it was very useful in PvE against mobs that never break free

Jabbs_Giggity

Davadin wrote: »

Bonk.

Couple weeks in.

PvE
It's interesting. The stacked damage does increase my DPS, and I saw someone posted with Flurry, each hit will be increased, so that's nice.
I've tested on a 3M dummy, a trial dummy, and it shows about 5% increase, but my rotation isn't that great.

But realistically, in a vet dungeon or open world dragons or World Boss... this skill feels NICE. Like, 10k guaranteed, critting at around 16~17k......
... FROM A RANGE.

Yes, I went completely 180 on the range thing. Yes, it does have travel delay and the animation is crappy, but when I actually LAND more hits thanks to it being a range, my DPS increases significantly.

On a trial specifically where DPS matters especially on boss-fights, it's somewhat negligible though. with everyone buffed to the max, the flat 135-damage does seem pale in comparison.

Summary: It's a great option for spammable, and will deliver more than it promised in MOST PvE encounters. It can hold on its own weight in front of other spammables, but by no means it's a guaranteed BiS.

PvP
This is where it gets wonky. I'm actually liking the fact it lands more often than, say, Dizzying since it's a range.
But 2 things:
1. it's not strong enough like Dizzy that merits it as a "burst spammable". it's kinda hard to build a combo around it. It can put pressure and sustain ur damage output, but it doesn't have enough *ooomph*. Yes, even with the silly stun.
2. it simply costs too much. in PvP where CP is involved and u get poisoned and defiled and CC'd left and right, my stamina runs out too fast......

Summary: it's situational. u want a ranged spammable to keep pressure? sure. medium DPS-build to burst? nope.

Anyway, something quick to throw before i leave from work.....

Haven't yet used it. However, in comparison to other class/weapon spammables I will agree cost is too high. What is the average tooltip on this skill? Are we talking comparison to Surprise Attack at an average 10K? C-Frags? Jabs? Dive? Skull?
In comparison to other class spammables, does the damage suggest it's on par? Do the added utilities of it contribute fairly to the damage output?

Davadin

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Bonk.

Couple weeks in.

PvE
It's interesting. The stacked damage does increase my DPS, and I saw someone posted with Flurry, each hit will be increased, so that's nice.
I've tested on a 3M dummy, a trial dummy, and it shows about 5% increase, but my rotation isn't that great.

But realistically, in a vet dungeon or open world dragons or World Boss... this skill feels NICE. Like, 10k guaranteed, critting at around 16~17k......
... FROM A RANGE.

Yes, I went completely 180 on the range thing. Yes, it does have travel delay and the animation is crappy, but when I actually LAND more hits thanks to it being a range, my DPS increases significantly.

On a trial specifically where DPS matters especially on boss-fights, it's somewhat negligible though. with everyone buffed to the max, the flat 135-damage does seem pale in comparison.

Summary: It's a great option for spammable, and will deliver more than it promised in MOST PvE encounters. It can hold on its own weight in front of other spammables, but by no means it's a guaranteed BiS.

PvP
This is where it gets wonky. I'm actually liking the fact it lands more often than, say, Dizzying since it's a range.
But 2 things:
1. it's not strong enough like Dizzy that merits it as a "burst spammable". it's kinda hard to build a combo around it. It can put pressure and sustain ur damage output, but it doesn't have enough *ooomph*. Yes, even with the silly stun.
2. it simply costs too much. in PvP where CP is involved and u get poisoned and defiled and CC'd left and right, my stamina runs out too fast......

Summary: it's situational. u want a ranged spammable to keep pressure? sure. medium DPS-build to burst? nope.

Anyway, something quick to throw before i leave from work.....

Haven't yet used it. However, in comparison to other class/weapon spammables I will agree cost is too high. What is the average tooltip on this skill? Are we talking comparison to Surprise Attack at an average 10K? C-Frags? Jabs? Dive? Skull?
In comparison to other class spammables, does the damage suggest it's on par? Do the added utilities of it contribute fairly to the damage output?

on my stamDK PvP build (mostly the build on my sig), it's around 9-9.5k.

as comparison, my Dizzying is around 12k.

so yes, around 10K.

the utilities is bonkers. 1 is stun, i've discussed it above. as for the stone giant morph with stacked stagger, well... it does contribute, but only for PvE. and it's not a major contribution at that. Because the rotation to swap or cancel other skills JUST so you can keep a stack of 3 staggers at all time for enemies that are immune to stun (if they can get stunned, then the stagger is completely useless at 45 per damage), it may not be worth the trouble. do i want to add 135 to all my attacks and DoT, or weave an extra 15k Dizzying Swing?

in PvP, the 5sec is too short as people dodge it and it won't count as a stack. and even if you do manage to put 3 stacks AND the enemy has immunity so u can retain the max stack for longer than 5 seconds.... it's still only 135 damage.

I mean, does it even get nerfed by Battle Rush or whatever that passive that half your damage in Cyrodiil?

it's definitely off my bar for PvP. im sticking to Dizzying.

Jabbs_Giggity

Davadin wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Bonk.

Couple weeks in.

PvE
It's interesting. The stacked damage does increase my DPS, and I saw someone posted with Flurry, each hit will be increased, so that's nice.
I've tested on a 3M dummy, a trial dummy, and it shows about 5% increase, but my rotation isn't that great.

But realistically, in a vet dungeon or open world dragons or World Boss... this skill feels NICE. Like, 10k guaranteed, critting at around 16~17k......
... FROM A RANGE.

Yes, I went completely 180 on the range thing. Yes, it does have travel delay and the animation is crappy, but when I actually LAND more hits thanks to it being a range, my DPS increases significantly.

On a trial specifically where DPS matters especially on boss-fights, it's somewhat negligible though. with everyone buffed to the max, the flat 135-damage does seem pale in comparison.

Summary: It's a great option for spammable, and will deliver more than it promised in MOST PvE encounters. It can hold on its own weight in front of other spammables, but by no means it's a guaranteed BiS.

PvP
This is where it gets wonky. I'm actually liking the fact it lands more often than, say, Dizzying since it's a range.
But 2 things:
1. it's not strong enough like Dizzy that merits it as a "burst spammable". it's kinda hard to build a combo around it. It can put pressure and sustain ur damage output, but it doesn't have enough *ooomph*. Yes, even with the silly stun.
2. it simply costs too much. in PvP where CP is involved and u get poisoned and defiled and CC'd left and right, my stamina runs out too fast......

Summary: it's situational. u want a ranged spammable to keep pressure? sure. medium DPS-build to burst? nope.

Anyway, something quick to throw before i leave from work.....

Haven't yet used it. However, in comparison to other class/weapon spammables I will agree cost is too high. What is the average tooltip on this skill? Are we talking comparison to Surprise Attack at an average 10K? C-Frags? Jabs? Dive? Skull?
In comparison to other class spammables, does the damage suggest it's on par? Do the added utilities of it contribute fairly to the damage output?

on my stamDK PvP build (mostly the build on my sig), it's around 9-9.5k.

as comparison, my Dizzying is around 12k.

so yes, around 10K.

the utilities is bonkers. 1 is stun, i've discussed it above. as for the stone giant morph with stacked stagger, well... it does contribute, but only for PvE. and it's not a major contribution at that. Because the rotation to swap or cancel other skills JUST so you can keep a stack of 3 staggers at all time for enemies that are immune to stun (if they can get stunned, then the stagger is completely useless at 45 per damage), it may not be worth the trouble. do i want to add 135 to all my attacks and DoT, or weave an extra 15k Dizzying Swing?

in PvP, the 5sec is too short as people dodge it and it won't count as a stack. and even if you do manage to put 3 stacks AND the enemy has immunity so u can retain the max stack for longer than 5 seconds.... it's still only 135 damage.

I mean, does it even get nerfed by Battle Rush or whatever that passive that half your damage in Cyrodiil?

it's definitely off my bar for PvP. im sticking to Dizzying.

Yeah, I completely understand the frustration DK's have. I mean even on my Stamplar Jabs is outta control with bugs...now more than ever!! Talk about needing a high damage spammable to proc PotL's delayed burst when you have a spammable skill that either:
1. Doesn't even initiate fluently while weaving other skills
2. Doesn't ever hit the target
3. Gets stuck in animation (back to point # 1)

Not to mention, pretty much the only two DoT's that Stamina Templar had are now worthless...this pretty much IS Templar's now only means of any type of burst damage above 50%....I guess just stack into the highest possible raw WD and HA for the duration of the patch...

Edit to include apologies for getting off topic from OP

deLioncourt

I simply switched out Bloodthirst on my DW skills for Rapid Strikes, and now I do more dps on my stamdk with Rapid Strikes than I do the Stone Giant. Stone Giant is useless garbage.

Xvorg

deLioncourt wrote: »

I simply switched out Bloodthirst on my DW skills for Rapid Strikes, and now I do more dps on my stamdk with Rapid Strikes than I do the Stone Giant. Stone Giant is useless garbage.

Rapids have always been better for DPS