Is it just me or NBs have completely been butchered?

Gatdangmayne

Nightblade is fine, i just wish dark cloak actually gave minor protection.

Maybe buff swallow soul/funnel health, slightly.

Besides that, sorry, but stop building for glass cannon perma stealth. Remove your proc sets. Learn to play.

Pauls

Cloak needs buff with attached purge to it, then we'll have balanced NBs

Czekoludek

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

Nightblade is fine, i just wish dark cloak actually gave minor protection.

Maybe buff swallow soul/funnel health, slightly.

Besides that, sorry, but stop building for glass cannon perma stealth. Remove your proc sets. Learn to play.

Show me how, almight nightblade master. How I can build my magblade with balanced damage, mitigation, utility and sustain and be competetive in PvP. Show me how I can stop using that filthy cloak and build for example like my magsorc who accidentaly is way better then magblade, even if using the same gear. Show me how I can get healing, damage and snares asgood as magplars. It should be easy if blades are "fine", we all know that teplars underperform and thats why ZoS still buff them.
What rotation should I use, cuz for now everyone agreed that magblade spec is weakest/almost the weakest damage spec in PvE endgame. I guess they are all wrong becuase some random on forum said that nightblade is fine. Please prove them wrong!
People must love playing bad classes and hate playing OP ones, thats why we see so many templars in pvp! Blades are almost extinct because THEY ARE SO GOOD, not because ZoS overnerfed class so much that it is pure garbage now.

Maybe next time when you gonna write something stupid about a class, play one just a bit, see how it goes against competitive ppl or in group play in PvE. The days were nightblades were fine are long gone

Amira

Is this a Sorc whinning thread? Nerf cloak.

Gatdangmayne

Czekoludek wrote: »

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

Nightblade is fine, i just wish dark cloak actually gave minor protection.

Maybe buff swallow soul/funnel health, slightly.

Besides that, sorry, but stop building for glass cannon perma stealth. Remove your proc sets. Learn to play.

Show me how, almight nightblade master. How I can build my magblade with balanced damage, mitigation, utility and sustain and be competetive in PvP. Show me how I can stop using that filthy cloak and build for example like my magsorc who accidentaly is way better then magblade, even if using the same gear. Show me how I can get healing, damage and snares asgood as magplars. It should be easy if blades are "fine", we all know that teplars underperform and thats why ZoS still buff them.
What rotation should I use, cuz for now everyone agreed that magblade spec is weakest/almost the weakest damage spec in PvE endgame. I guess they are all wrong becuase some random on forum said that nightblade is fine. Please prove them wrong!
People must love playing bad classes and hate playing OP ones, thats why we see so many templars in pvp! Blades are almost extinct because THEY ARE SO GOOD, not because ZoS overnerfed class so much that it is pure garbage now.

Maybe next time when you gonna write something stupid about a class, play one just a bit, see how it goes against competitive ppl or in group play in PvE. The days were nightblades were fine are long gone

I don't pve much, so you're probably correct in that respect.

For pvp though, i have a breton ad and a dark elf ep nb that have both reached i believe centurion? Or thereabouts.

I use multiple set combos, but nothing too crazy. Spinners, shackle, twice born, impreg, vd, plague dr (weps/jewelry) are some of my most used on nb. Bloodspawn, balorgh.

Granted, i tend to have pretty *** sustain, i think the highest I've had lately was 1500 self buffed, but hey heavy attacks are op.

I don't use stealth cloak, because its crap.

Infused resto with health steal enchant, RAT/phantasmal escape, refreshing path, siphoning strikes, dark cloak, harness. Ult usually barrier, sometimes tether heal.

Nirn inferno damage enchant, merciless, flex, fear, lotus, sap, soul harvest.

Cp about 15% or more into shields, 8% healing taken, 12% heavy restore, 19%/19% block n dodge, 4k penetration, 7% magic damage, 16%+ crit, 22% direct and then at least enough staff attack to get 120 in the second blue tree.

Resto enchant is basically swallow soul but better. 100% necessary on nb IMO. Keeping dark cloak, siphoning strikes, and merciless up 100% is also necessary, they fall off n you're screwed. Don't pop your merciless as soon as you get it (usually).

Yeah, you might end up looking like a noob spamming light attacks from range, but my light attacks hit decently hard. Build ult, tab target someone, cripple/mark/whatever them, lotus, fear ult bow sap. Or lotus ult fear bow sap. Or w/e.

I routinely hit people with 6-12k soul harvests, and 9-16k merciless'. Sap is typically only 2-3k without balorgh or soul harvest buff.

If its super zergy, pop on a destro ult or damage tether instead of soul harvest, maybe slot proxy, n you're good to go.

As long as i don't have multiple people focusing me, im not going down without a fight.

The reason you can't throw the same sets from a sorc or temp on nb, is because it doesn't play the same. Build around your class/race strength and weaknesses.

Have fun

susmitds

I don't necessarily think that NB is butchered truly as it can be fixed with a few changes but it is undeniable that it is in a bad spot compared to other classes. Yes, I have made builds that are pretty strong but those only use 2-3 NB skills and all generic skills. Compared to the 6-7 NB skills used last year. Anyone that says NB is fine is clueless about combat in general.

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

For pvp though, i have a breton ad and a dark elf ep nb that have both reached i believe centurion? Or thereabouts.

Imagine, stating alliance rank as proof of skill, when 90% Grand Overloads run around like headless chickens.

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

Granted, i tend to have pretty *** sustain, i think the highest I've had lately was 1500 self buffed, but hey heavy attacks are op.

1500 regen on NB and purely heavy attack to sustain. Try that in 1vX, what could do go wrong.

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

Resto enchant is basically swallow soul but better. 100% necessary on nb IMO.

An enchant is outdoing one of the most iconic class skills in capability and here you are saying the class is okay.

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

I routinely hit people with 6-12k soul harvests, and 9-16k merciless'. Sap is typically only 2-3k without balorgh or soul harvest buff.

If you are routinely hitting people with Soul Harvest with its cast time and Merciless proc with its travel time in the first place, you are fighting god awful players. Also, you won't hit 16k merciless against anyone with the meta builds, without going glass cannon. Performance against zerglings is not a standard for balance, cause hell even light attack spam can kill half of them.

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

The reason you can't throw the same sets from a sorc or temp on nb, is because it doesn't play the same. Build around your class/race strength and weaknesses.

You can most definitely throw the same sets from a magblade on a magplar and perform far better than the magblade.



Lets compare the NB skills to other similar skills.

Incapacitating Strike - 70 cost, 20% extra damage on target for 5 sec, has cast time, gives free CC immunity after 120 ulti for the most part(the Silence can be useful but very rarely), has Reave
Leap - 100 cost, Has 40% higher tooltip, no cast time and stuns.
Crescent Sweep - 71 cost, AoE and hits harder than Incap Strike, no cast time and has a hefty DoT.
Onslaught - 150 cost, splashe AoE damage, Has 15% higher tooltip and ignores penetration so basically hits around 40-50% harder than Incap, gives 100% penetration for 5 sec.

Relentless Focus/Merciless Resolve - Empty cast initially, build upto 10% mitigation which is lost when the actual proc is used, requires 5 light attacks for proc, useless heal for the most part, has high minimum travel time
Bound Armanents - 8% stamina, 10% higher LA damage, proc damage same or higher as stam morph of Focus, requires 4 LAs for proc(1 less LA), has 10/20 sec higher duration than Focus
Molten Whip - Gives extra weapon/spell damage, burst attached to spammable skill so no need to waste extra skill slot
Haunting Curse/Sub Assault/Backlash/Blastbones - Delayed burst and hence Off-GCD making it easier to pile up damage.
Crystal Frags - Procs available way more often than Grim Focus and hits pretty similar in damage. Also class has two burst skills with Haunting Curse.

Surprise Attack - All weapon spammables deal more sustained damage and has higher tooltips, Wrecking Blow/Dizzying Swing, Power Bash(even without the charge up), Snipe

Killer's Blade - 300% extra damage. Scales below 25% HP
Executioner - Upto 400% extra damage, gradual scaling makes it usable under 40% HP, cost lesser.

Twisting Path - Deals damage on ground AoE, Major Expedition on ground
Ritual Retribution - Deals same damage on ground AoE with higher area covered, heals teammates on same area, purges negative effects, gives teammates Purify synergy for purge, has a 30% snare

I can go on and on with these comparisons..

russelmmendoza

Because of necro, just saying.

Nb was great, but they needed to sell necro.

Win, win.

Czekoludek

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

Nightblade is fine, i just wish dark cloak actually gave minor protection.

Maybe buff swallow soul/funnel health, slightly.

Besides that, sorry, but stop building for glass cannon perma stealth. Remove your proc sets. Learn to play.

Show me how, almight nightblade master. How I can build my magblade with balanced damage, mitigation, utility and sustain and be competetive in PvP. Show me how I can stop using that filthy cloak and build for example like my magsorc who accidentaly is way better then magblade, even if using the same gear. Show me how I can get healing, damage and snares asgood as magplars. It should be easy if blades are "fine", we all know that teplars underperform and thats why ZoS still buff them.
What rotation should I use, cuz for now everyone agreed that magblade spec is weakest/almost the weakest damage spec in PvE endgame. I guess they are all wrong becuase some random on forum said that nightblade is fine. Please prove them wrong!
People must love playing bad classes and hate playing OP ones, thats why we see so many templars in pvp! Blades are almost extinct because THEY ARE SO GOOD, not because ZoS overnerfed class so much that it is pure garbage now.

Maybe next time when you gonna write something stupid about a class, play one just a bit, see how it goes against competitive ppl or in group play in PvE. The days were nightblades were fine are long gone

I don't pve much, so you're probably correct in that respect.

For pvp though, i have a breton ad and a dark elf ep nb that have both reached i believe centurion? Or thereabouts.

I use multiple set combos, but nothing too crazy. Spinners, shackle, twice born, impreg, vd, plague dr (weps/jewelry) are some of my most used on nb. Bloodspawn, balorgh.

Granted, i tend to have pretty *** sustain, i think the highest I've had lately was 1500 self buffed, but hey heavy attacks are op.

I don't use stealth cloak, because its crap.

Infused resto with health steal enchant, RAT/phantasmal escape, refreshing path, siphoning strikes, dark cloak, harness. Ult usually barrier, sometimes tether heal.

Nirn inferno damage enchant, merciless, flex, fear, lotus, sap, soul harvest.

Cp about 15% or more into shields, 8% healing taken, 12% heavy restore, 19%/19% block n dodge, 4k penetration, 7% magic damage, 16%+ crit, 22% direct and then at least enough staff attack to get 120 in the second blue tree.

Resto enchant is basically swallow soul but better. 100% necessary on nb IMO. Keeping dark cloak, siphoning strikes, and merciless up 100% is also necessary, they fall off n you're screwed. Don't pop your merciless as soon as you get it (usually).

Yeah, you might end up looking like a noob spamming light attacks from range, but my light attacks hit decently hard. Build ult, tab target someone, cripple/mark/whatever them, lotus, fear ult bow sap. Or lotus ult fear bow sap. Or w/e.

I routinely hit people with 6-12k soul harvests, and 9-16k merciless'. Sap is typically only 2-3k without balorgh or soul harvest buff.

If its super zergy, pop on a destro ult or damage tether instead of soul harvest, maybe slot proxy, n you're good to go.

As long as i don't have multiple people focusing me, im not going down without a fight.

The reason you can't throw the same sets from a sorc or temp on nb, is because it doesn't play the same. Build around your class/race strength and weaknesses.

Have fun

So to sum it up:
- You admit that sustain on mNB is crap (1500 regen and you need to heavy attack which I must sat, are not "OP")
- You admit that cloak, most iconic NB skill and for most NBs the main source of defense is crap
- You admit that enchant is better then one of our most powerful class heals
- You tell me that you can "routinely" hit players with incap and merciless? Good to know, for me it worka only against newbie or potato players, avoiding this skills is easy AF
- You cannot hit that numbers on player with good resistances and impen gear. On potato sure, it is doable
- If enemy zerg stands in destro, they really should focus on mats farming rather then pvp
- 1v1 is okay but having more then one player on you is a problem? Sounds OP
- Have fun killing bad players, with this you couldn't kill decent ones

Darsaga

Czekoludek wrote: »

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

Nightblade is fine, i just wish dark cloak actually gave minor protection.

Maybe buff swallow soul/funnel health, slightly.

Besides that, sorry, but stop building for glass cannon perma stealth. Remove your proc sets. Learn to play.

Show me how, almight nightblade master. How I can build my magblade with balanced damage, mitigation, utility and sustain and be competetive in PvP. Show me how I can stop using that filthy cloak and build for example like my magsorc who accidentaly is way better then magblade, even if using the same gear. Show me how I can get healing, damage and snares asgood as magplars. It should be easy if blades are "fine", we all know that teplars underperform and thats why ZoS still buff them.
What rotation should I use, cuz for now everyone agreed that magblade spec is weakest/almost the weakest damage spec in PvE endgame. I guess they are all wrong becuase some random on forum said that nightblade is fine. Please prove them wrong!
People must love playing bad classes and hate playing OP ones, thats why we see so many templars in pvp! Blades are almost extinct because THEY ARE SO GOOD, not because ZoS overnerfed class so much that it is pure garbage now.

Maybe next time when you gonna write something stupid about a class, play one just a bit, see how it goes against competitive ppl or in group play in PvE. The days were nightblades were fine are long gone

I don't pve much, so you're probably correct in that respect.

For pvp though, i have a breton ad and a dark elf ep nb that have both reached i believe centurion? Or thereabouts.

I use multiple set combos, but nothing too crazy. Spinners, shackle, twice born, impreg, vd, plague dr (weps/jewelry) are some of my most used on nb. Bloodspawn, balorgh.

Granted, i tend to have pretty *** sustain, i think the highest I've had lately was 1500 self buffed, but hey heavy attacks are op.

I don't use stealth cloak, because its crap.

Infused resto with health steal enchant, RAT/phantasmal escape, refreshing path, siphoning strikes, dark cloak, harness. Ult usually barrier, sometimes tether heal.

Nirn inferno damage enchant, merciless, flex, fear, lotus, sap, soul harvest.

Cp about 15% or more into shields, 8% healing taken, 12% heavy restore, 19%/19% block n dodge, 4k penetration, 7% magic damage, 16%+ crit, 22% direct and then at least enough staff attack to get 120 in the second blue tree.

Resto enchant is basically swallow soul but better. 100% necessary on nb IMO. Keeping dark cloak, siphoning strikes, and merciless up 100% is also necessary, they fall off n you're screwed. Don't pop your merciless as soon as you get it (usually).

Yeah, you might end up looking like a noob spamming light attacks from range, but my light attacks hit decently hard. Build ult, tab target someone, cripple/mark/whatever them, lotus, fear ult bow sap. Or lotus ult fear bow sap. Or w/e.

I routinely hit people with 6-12k soul harvests, and 9-16k merciless'. Sap is typically only 2-3k without balorgh or soul harvest buff.

If its super zergy, pop on a destro ult or damage tether instead of soul harvest, maybe slot proxy, n you're good to go.

As long as i don't have multiple people focusing me, im not going down without a fight.

The reason you can't throw the same sets from a sorc or temp on nb, is because it doesn't play the same. Build around your class/race strength and weaknesses.

Have fun

So to sum it up:
- You admit that sustain on mNB is crap (1500 regen and you need to heavy attack which I must sat, are not "OP")
- You admit that cloak, most iconic NB skill and for most NBs the main source of defense is crap
- You admit that enchant is better then one of our most powerful class heals
- You tell me that you can "routinely" hit players with incap and merciless? Good to know, for me it worka only against newbie or potato players, avoiding this skills is easy AF
- You cannot hit that numbers on player with good resistances and impen gear. On potato sure, it is doable
- If enemy zerg stands in destro, they really should focus on mats farming rather then pvp
- 1v1 is okay but having more then one player on you is a problem? Sounds OP
- Have fun killing bad players, with this you couldn't kill decent ones

You know people crying about their class not being able to do what another class can do is why we are in the situation we are in now. And guess what? It’s going to get worse. By the time all the classes have the same abilities as one another nothing will feel unique and the gameplay will be stale and boring.

Fighting anyone equally as skilled as you or higher is a difficult fight because this game has went to a casual slow paced fighting style. A few years ago you could run out of resources, miss a dodge or block and be dead to an ult combo. Now you can make dozens of mistakes and still recover and keep fighting. If your running around open world slaying people quickly they are way less skilled than you. If you run into an equal player or good player be prepared for a boring 15 minute fight.

Michae

Butchered? Again?

BlueRaven

Currently while soloing on my stamblade I use ONE night blade ability. Cloak. I use it to get through delves faster for dailies. That is it. When I do the occasional trial (Update 23 destroyed my usual trial group) that one ability gets replaced.

For combat, there is nothing in the nightblade toolkit that I cannot find a better substitute for elsewhere.

So in a trial, apart from passives, what class am I playing? My sneaky Bosmer nightblade is not sneaky nor a nightblade really.

The worst part about all of this is that the combat now feels bland. Prior to the the race changes I had a lot of fun with this character, and in eso in general. Now it feels like I am only logging in due to habit (and to chat with friends).

Gatdangmayne

@susmitds @Czekoludek

You both make some valid points, ill try to address them.

On alliance rank, i know that is pretty meaningless, i mostly stated it as pointing out that i do indeed play nb, and it is one of my most played classes if not the most played. I rarely even grab an ap buff, and on nb especially, that is 90% solo play.

1500 regen, you use that as a counterpoint though im not sure if you're saying 1500 is plenty, or not enough. Either way, i said my sustain is the main pain point i have, and i compensate by heavy attacking a lot.

On resto enchant outperforming swallow soul - sure, solid point that yeah it could use a buff, and i said as much in a separate post last night. Though tbh i still wouldn't slot it, as barspace is cramped, and if i can get essentially the same effect with no slot wasted and for no magicka spent, why would i change it?

Cloak is crap mainly because its a cowards way to play. It's just as 'effective' as its always been, i just prefer to actually fight rather than hide and gank.

I'm on console, so its probably a little different than pc, but yes i routinely hit people with harvest and bow procs. No, not routinely for the 10k+ numbers, those are against the nubs, but 6k harvest and 9k merciless is pretty common, against all except tanks.

You criticize destro ult. Okay. Lol what do you expect? This is for defenses vs zergs only. Smh

Yes, 1v1 only builds that are usually a problem are stamdks and templars...no surprises there.

And yes, show me a build that can facetank multiple players and still fight? Of course i can kite and treehump vs zerglings, but idk what you expect from that either. Besides stealth cloak and streaking away, best you can do is kite n hope to pick off the weaker ones...which i do.

I kill good and bad players. I specifically recall when i tried out the last build, a notorious 1vXer came out on i believe it was a stamsorc and i hit them with a 9k soul harvest followed by a 15k bow. He came out again, then stopped coming out. Sooo yeah i kill good and bad players. I die to both too, because its eso, and thatsthegame.jpeg

On your skill comparisons, i get your point on some of them, but i just see it as classes are different. I don't want all classes totally equal, cause that's boring af.

I'm not arguing that nb couldn't use a few buffs (specifically to swallow soul/funnel health, fix dark cloak protection, get rid of cast time on tether heal, increase shadow barrier resist time) but I'm arguing that nb isn't garbage - not that it is the #1 spec.

It's obviously not the top pvp spec, but im saying that people are too into the herd mentality in this game. If you're skilled, have decent knowledge of mechanics, and can theorcraft, you can be successful on any class.

It's just most that play nightblades want to be able to instaclap everyone and be untouchable, and that's not realistic...so everyone says they're crap.

DaNnYtHePcFrEaK

Let's talk about a more important topic, nightblades in PvE.... they are gone... completely... they've been relegated to tanks now 😂 to say how tiny the PvP community is a lot gets changed for them which ruins the PvE experience massively and why alot of players are leaving every patch.. why can't these forums be split into PvE and PvP to seperate this nonsense of nerfs... and make cyrodiils battle spirit effect more things.... I feel like eso will only last 3 more years if this carries on the way it does

Vlad9425

NB would be decent again if Incap actually stunned instead of the pathetic silence that the ability currently has. Also the loss of Berserk and Fracture from SA messed up our burst potential very badly. My Stamplar and Stamden literally melt people faster than my freaking Assassin class...

SydneyGrey

I only ever played nightblades in PvE, but I don't play them any more. They've become noticably weaker to the point where they aren't fun anymore.
I had three NBs and deleted one about three weeks ago. Still have two, just in case they're buffed again at some point.

I don't care about what is meta. I just want a character that doesn't feel like it's hitting like a wet noodle.

Shardaxx

The incap change was terrible. What I notice is, that I have very few abilities now to stun enemies with. They removed the npc only stun from Ambush. This leaves surprise attack (only stuns from stealth) and draining shot (from the bow bar, not a nb skill). People might say use fear but that's really not viable for a stam nb if you wanna use cloak, you don't have nearly enough magicka to slot both, unless you give up a lot of stam to boost it.

What else does a stam nb have to stun enemies?

Jusey1

My NB is alright though he lost a good bit of his damage when I recently came back playing ESO due to losing his stun. I have no idea why they would remove that stun (PvP probably? If that's the case, should've made the stun only work on NPCs) but other than that. I notice no differences on him.

GhostofDatthaw

Iskiab wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Twenty bucks that the same sorcs who say cloak is OP would scream their heads off if the devs were to suggest trading streak and cloak between the two classes.

As magblade main, I would trade that any given time, cloak is good only against potatoes

Agreed. If streak had no stun it’d be close. With a stun on streak it’s a no brainer. Begs the question why play a magblade.

*Takes maim from fear because it does too much

*Give class cap creating unblockable aoe stun

Goregrinder

nsmurfer wrote: »

For last two months or so from my experience in pc/na both PvE and PvP, the number of NBs have substantially dropped.

In cyrodiil, few patches ago, there used to be a swarm of NBs everywhere. Right now, magblades are virtually non-existant except the last few Caluurion gankers. Stamblades for the most part are just as rare. I remember being quite a few variants of stamblades in Cyro, from rollerblades, bleedblades, brawlerblades, onslaught gankers, melee gankblades, SnB sNB, speedblades, snipers. Of all these types. The only type that has remained is snipers and the occasional DK wannabe dizzying swing spammers. Even then, they are one of the least seen specs right now and the remaining ones are hardly any threat.

In Bgs, it is even worse as even during the NB's best patches, they were easily the worst class to have in your team. Right now, having Nbs in a team substantially increases the chance of the losing. Only spec that is remotely useful are the healer magblades.

Havent done much Pve lately but from what I hear from guildies, Nbs have become the tank class and no longer a competitive DD class. Going forward, that seems to be the case even more, as magdks, stamdks, stamplar and magsorcs all got unique utility buffs that can only be given by DDs and thereby 4 slots of 8 dps slots in trials is already booked, leaving the remaining for stamcros, magplars and stamsorcs. Nbs lack both utility and raw dps to be a DD contender.

I am getting a feeling that NBs are largely becoming irrelevant as a class with pretty much the only thing that is keeping them on the scene being Cloak.

Cloak is literally the only thing that makes me want to play a NB these days. They have nothing else going for them compared to other classes right now, classes that don't need cloak in order to perform the same tasks, better.