3Rd Resource For Block and Dodge Roll

TheHsN

Hello,

I guess to give the game better balance and understanding differences between Magicka and Stamina we need a 3rd resource for Block and dodge roll. And we can bring all magicka and stamina numbers as equal and see which ones are over performing. I think this is going to solve almost all unbalanced skills and help us to understand numbers better.

Hallothiel

And running.

Realised how much this game hates melee stam characters trying to do first boss on vAA with a stamblade. Trying to managed resources so can do damage but also not die as can’t sprint to safe zone in time.

Can’t tell you how many times have expired within reach but not quite - whilst magicka characters slip to safety with ease as they don’t have to worry about their stam levels.

(Yes yes ltp etc. Can do it now. Mostly. Was a steep unpleasant frustrating learning curve though.)

Goregrinder

Add jumping.

Donny_Vito

Or just have your highest non-health resource be the one that is affected when you do one of these actions (run, jump, block, break free). Unfortunately this would give little to no reason to even have the other resource. But without forcing a magicka user to have an Ice Staff, we are limited to what we can do with our petty stam pool. And if we invest in that stam resource pool, then you've just drastically reduced your DPS which is not an option in these turmoil times. All this inevitably ties back to PvE vs PvP....give us the ability to have different loadouts for PvE and PvP (not talking about those add-ons that only PC players can use).

TheShadowScout

Nah.

TheHsN wrote: »

I guess to give the game better balance and understanding differences between Magicka and Stamina we need a 3rd resource for Block and dodge roll. And we can bring all magicka and stamina numbers as equal...

Nah.
For one, the builds should -not- be the same, otherwise there would be no difference.

For another, it makes -sense- for stamina to pay for dodge rolling.

...

Now... magica for block, that -might- make sense, and could be added to some weapons. Like... equip a magica weapon, block with magica instead of stamina as you are not holding up a shield or whatnot, but pouring magical energy into making a maheshift mystic barrier... and THAT is somethiong I would love to see added to staves and any other magica weapons that they might hopefully add someday...

Hallothiel wrote: »

And running.

Nope.

Running, once again, should be stamina based. It makes a great deal of sense for people to be out of breath when running... no matter if they are warriors (stamina characters) or mages.

Wanna go fast by magic instead? Play a sorc, do the streaking...

Goregrinder wrote: »

Add jumping.

No, stamina again, though it -really- should actually cost that to make the darn bunnyhoppers think twice about, well... bunnyhopping!

...

BtW, same for swimming, I also would love to see that come with a stamina cost, perhaps even modified by armor work... say, 4% per piece of light armor, 8% per medium, and 16% per piece of heavy armor in both swimming cost increase and swimming speed reduction (and yes, that means you could not swim in full plate - because that's like an friggin anchor dragging you down)

...

Now, all that being said...
What -would- make sense for a cost alteration might be... break free. I mean, if you get hit with a -magical- effect that impairs you in some way, should you not need magical power to counter it instead of just muscles? If you get magically held, cursed with dizzyness or frightening illusions, should that not take willpower instead of mere strength to break? At the very least a half-half setup for that one would seem applicable, yes?

evoniee

holding any staff = block with magicka, that's all we need

Jolipinator

Manama.

Dusk_Coven

There's always potions to quickly make up the loss. Unless you are already using that for something else.
Sure Stamina builds have to burn stamina to run to the boss. But Magicka builds don't have that much Stamina to begin with so it sort of evens out.
I think potions is the "third resource" ZOS is expecting.
Same with Stamina builds needing some Magicka for some of their abilities but not using Magicka weapons to recover that resource. Quaff a potion.

idk

Not needed as it has worked well in PvE and PvP so far. I can only imagine this is about PvP and many magicka player run with poor builds that ignore stamina. When that is the case it is a personal problem. Further, Stamina builds have to use the same energy source as they need for damage. That is the trade off they have. Again, it works well.

StormeReigns

Jolipinator wrote: »

Manama.

https://youtu.be/8N_tupPBtWQ

Ei8htba11

TheHsN wrote: »

Hello,

I guess to give the game better balance and understanding differences between Magicka and Stamina we need a 3rd resource for Block and dodge roll. And we can bring all magicka and stamina numbers as equal and see which ones are over performing. I think this is going to solve almost all unbalanced skills and help us to understand numbers better.

So you want to make the numbers more understandable by... adding more numbers?

Physical things use stamina, mental things (including one's willpower) use mana. Running, jumping, breaking free, dodge rolling.. hitting things with various sized lumps of metal (some with edges and/or pointy bits) all stamina activities. Avoiding an incoming spell effect, maintaining a shield, blowing the crap out of something with the focused powers of the immaterial.. something, mana.

But, 'stamina characters are penalised because magic players don't need stam so running doesn't affect their performance...'

Stamina players are 'fitter' having a larger stam pool. Magica bookworms spent too much time studying the arcane and can't run up a flight of stairs without getting puffed... balances (Assuming you've put most if not all of your attribute points into the preferred attribute).

TL:DR The gist? You don't generally make it simpler by adding more stuff to track. It aint broke, don't fix it.

MentalxHammer

You really want to keep track of 4 different meters in combat?

Darkenarlol

or just l2p

MLGProPlayer

Stamina abilities cost less than magicka abilities to account for this. Magicka builds also drain resources by having to spam shields instead of dodging/blocking.

Bergzorn

I'm ok with building for stamina and stamina regeneration on magica chars.

However, the 15% cost reduction for stamina skills is not really fair IMO. The reasoning behind it is flawed since stamina chars building for more stamina for more dodge rolls etc. also increase their damage and healing.

So maybe scratch the 15% for stamina users or give magica chars a 15% cost reduction on dodge roll, break free, sprint, and blocking. Although my bias says block cost reduction should be skipped.

Vapirko

No this should not happen. Managing off stat resources is not hard. On my Stamplar I play with 16.5k mag and on Mag DK, Mag Sorc and Magplar I maintain a 15-19k stam pool (and it’s actually more easily built for). I never have ANY issues managing my stamina pool in any setting. Just learn the *** game.

TheHsN

Darkenarlol wrote: »

or just l2p

you really dont know how yo play. Even do not understand what is the situation here.
And im sure i can beat you in pve and pvp in all with my 14 characters.

TheHsN

This is not about resource management.

it is about BALANCE...


Stam sorcs has 30k Stam
Magicka sorc has 42k MAgicka

And i say lets make them equal and make the skills cost same like ZOS try to do. And lets see which classes has sustain issues or damage issues better.

Rave the Histborn

TheHsN wrote: »

Hello,

I guess to give the game better balance and understanding differences between Magicka and Stamina we need a 3rd resource for Block and dodge roll. And we can bring all magicka and stamina numbers as equal and see which ones are over performing. I think this is going to solve almost all unbalanced skills and help us to understand numbers better.

Can we just take out everything besides walking in this game? This way there's nothing to balance and everyone asking for nerds can actually go play the game instead of spending all day on the forums. Blocking and rolling take stamina, why would you make magicka part of it?

Darkenarlol

TheHsN wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

or just l2p

you really dont know how yo play. Even do not understand what is the situation here.
And im sure i can beat you in pve and pvp in all with my 14 characters.

how many do you charge per hour as a clown?

Reaper_00

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Now... magica for block, that -might- make sense, and could be added to some weapons. Like... equip a magica weapon, block with magica instead of stamina as you are not holding up a shield or whatnot, but pouring magical energy into making a maheshift mystic barrier... and THAT is somethiong I would love to see added to staves and any other magica weapons that they might hopefully add someday...

This already exists if you are using an ice/frost staff. It is useful on mag builds as it leaves your stam free for dodge rolling and breaking free, but you have to trade the damage/healing boosts from the other staff passives for this.

Darkenarlol

there is allready so many options in the game

to manage your resources if you really want to do it


with specific food/chants/gear you can build

a mag char with 2k+ mag and 1.5k+ stam regen

for sustained dodge rolls/cc breaks

or invest into larger stam pool

or...damn there are a LOT of options

when you become creative and have a goal

not just blindly go meta without any understandment


there is no need for more stat pools that should be managed

make running costs run resource dodging dodge resource

crouching costs...you'll just end with old WoW skill CDs

and cheap korean mmo's 2 dodges/10 second per ANY character

TheHsN wrote: »

Stam sorcs has 30k Stam
Magicka sorc has 42k MAgicka

and how many weapon damage this stam sorc has?

i'm sure it is higher than that magsorc's spell power

if we are talking about normal, effective, not play-as-i-want builds

in which case magsorc can have 30k mag and stamsorc 42k stam


in short: we allready have a huge set of tools

to manage our characters even if the balance

is not perfect (because perfect balance is a myth,

even in chess whites have a first turn bonus)

TheHsN

Darkenarlol wrote: »

there is allready so many options in the game

to manage your resources if you really want to do it


with specific food/chants/gear you can build

a mag char with 2k+ mag and 1.5k+ stam regen

for sustained dodge rolls/cc breaks

or invest into larger stam pool

or...damn there are a LOT of options

when you become creative and have a goal

not just blindly go meta without any understandment


there is no need for more stat pools that should be managed

make running costs run resource dodging dodge resource

crouching costs...you'll just end with old WoW skill CDs

and cheap korean mmo's 2 dodges/10 second per ANY character

TheHsN wrote: »

Stam sorcs has 30k Stam
Magicka sorc has 42k MAgicka

and how many weapon damage this stam sorc has?

i'm sure it is higher than that magsorc's spell power

if we are talking about normal, effective, not play-as-i-want builds

in which case magsorc can have 30k mag and stamsorc 42k stam


in short: we allready have a huge set of tools

to manage our characters even if the balance

is not perfect (because perfect balance is a myth,

even in chess whites have a first turn bonus)

u did not understand anything i meant

Mayrael

TheHsN wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

there is allready so many options in the game

to manage your resources if you really want to do it


with specific food/chants/gear you can build

a mag char with 2k+ mag and 1.5k+ stam regen

for sustained dodge rolls/cc breaks

or invest into larger stam pool

or...damn there are a LOT of options

when you become creative and have a goal

not just blindly go meta without any understandment


there is no need for more stat pools that should be managed

make running costs run resource dodging dodge resource

crouching costs...you'll just end with old WoW skill CDs

and cheap korean mmo's 2 dodges/10 second per ANY character

TheHsN wrote: »

Stam sorcs has 30k Stam
Magicka sorc has 42k MAgicka

and how many weapon damage this stam sorc has?

i'm sure it is higher than that magsorc's spell power

if we are talking about normal, effective, not play-as-i-want builds

in which case magsorc can have 30k mag and stamsorc 42k stam


in short: we allready have a huge set of tools

to manage our characters even if the balance

is not perfect (because perfect balance is a myth,

even in chess whites have a first turn bonus)

u did not understand anything i meant

Need to agree with you. No stamina player will understand the strugle when you are stunlocked because you roll dodged 2 times in a row or god forbid have sprinted for a bit. Yes magicka is important for stam classes but its not crucial. All decent magicka players invest in more stamina or stam regen because its a must but only some good stam players invest in magcika. Nevertheless I've got used to current situation so much that I don't think about it anymore but it is realy an interesting idea.