Meta doesn't mean Overpowered. There will always be a meta and why that is ok.

FractalParadox

Games with a lot of options are great but can also feel a bit overwhelming at times, especially when you have limited time to play. I'm sure we'd all love to have the time to sit down and try every single build to find the best. Or maybe, we wouldn't want to do that, besides that can be very boring. Sometimes you just want to hop on and play, and so what do we do? We look up a guide and due to the nature of search engines like Google and Youtube, the guides near the top will be viewed the most, and will most likely, be followed the most as well.

I enjoy the process of going through every single possible build to find the best one, even more so then I enjoy playing the game, and in my experience, the best/OP build is rarely the meta.

When a patch hits in almost any game, streamers/content creators are in a race to put out as much content as possible, which in turn limits their time to thoroughly test many different things.

Now I know that this isn't always the case. Maybe the most recent live patch went a bit overboard with DOTs.

Maybe every class shouldn't have an answer to everything nor the option to do everything. After all, this is a multiplayer game. Maybe it's perfectly ok for us to rely on others to cover our class' shortcomings.

I tend to do pretty well in BGs, but I still get upset momentarily when I die, even if it's completely my fault for running in alone against both enemy teams. So next patch, when you see your death recap, and you keep seeing the same ability or abilities over and over, remember that there is a difference between popular, and unfair.

GeorgeBlack

There is a big gap between meta and other options.
Take pet sorc
Take the old stamDK SnB/2h 7th Fury BS

When something is ahead by far, it is bad.

FractalParadox

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

There is a big gap between meta and other options.
Take pet sorc
Take the old stamDK SnB/2h 7th Fury BS

When something is ahead by far, it is bad.

And you're right about that, but my point is that the reason something is meta isn't always because it's the best or overpowered, especially in more casual games. I wouldn't count ESO as a "competitive game". I've always seen ESO as a PvE MMO with a PvP option.

BaiterOfZergs

Meta is just the current trend in the game for the most part , however meta and op can be synonymous. The same thing goes for bis and op. Think of meta and bis as the most effective or ideal approaches.

Anyways, there will always be a meta and bis, that’s just something people have to deal with in any game.

GeorgeBlack

Well as a stamDK I am happy that 7th and fury got nerfed.
As a stamina player I am happy that SnB has been brought in line with the other stamina weapons (not happy about making the shield a spammable tool).
I am happy that Rally isnt as OP anymore so that all classes have to run 2h.
I wont be happy is Zos ruins D. Swing instead of finding was to make the user of this awsome ability work harder for the result.

This is how nerfs should happen. When something makes all other options laughable, it should be nerfed.
I used to play wow. Not rly following the meta was viable. In eso? A casual game as you say? Oh boy. No meta, no kills.

Buffs should occur in abilities that nobody ever uses, like Igneous Weapons for example. Or Consealed Weapon.
Definatly not blanket buffs across all Dots by 60%.

Zos was never ever ever able to spot a problem and make ONE adjustment.
They have to touch everything and upset the balance in a new, spectacular way.

Calm_Fury

People use "meta" as they use "system" and "the powers that be"... It is just a way to personify a single subject to blame for something.

There will ALWAYS be a mathematical best. Thus, always be a meta.

Even if that mathematical best is only 0.5% better, there will be LOADS of people chasing that 0.5%, even those that are still very very far from the skill level where that matters.

Right now in ESO you have several setups that are only 2-3% behind the "meta". Still, there are several people that can't break 60k on trial dummy that will spent all their time farming those meta gears instead of actually working on rotations, weaving and such.

GeorgeBlack

Calm_Fury wrote: »

People use "meta" as they use "system" and "the powers that be"... It is just a way to personify a single subject to blame for something.

There will ALWAYS be a mathematical best. Thus, always be a meta.

Even if that mathematical best is only 0.5% better, there will be LOADS of people chasing that 0.5%, even those that are still very very far from the skill level where that matters.

Right now in ESO you have several setups that are only 2-3% behind the "meta". Still, there are several people that can't break 60k on trial dummy that will spent all their time farming those meta gears instead of actually working on rotations, weaving and such.

Are you saying that meta builds perform 0.5% better than other builds?
Because that is not the case and you know it. Dont belittle people.

J2JMC

"Maybe every class shouldn't have an answer to everything nor the option to do everything. After all, this is a multiplayer game. Maybe it's perfectly ok for us to rely on others to cover our class' shortcomings."

Ya'll say this, but then instantly hit the forums crying when they said their removing the knockback from wrecking blow because now some classes didn't have reliable cc.

Calm_Fury

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Calm_Fury wrote: »

People use "meta" as they use "system" and "the powers that be"... It is just a way to personify a single subject to blame for something.

There will ALWAYS be a mathematical best. Thus, always be a meta.

Even if that mathematical best is only 0.5% better, there will be LOADS of people chasing that 0.5%, even those that are still very very far from the skill level where that matters.

Right now in ESO you have several setups that are only 2-3% behind the "meta". Still, there are several people that can't break 60k on trial dummy that will spent all their time farming those meta gears instead of actually working on rotations, weaving and such.

Are you saying that meta builds perform 0.5% better than other builds?
Because that is not the case and you know it. Dont belittle people.

No, that is not what I am saying.

Re-read my sentence.

"Even if if that mathematical best is only 0.5% better".

Work on your comprehension skills before accusing me of belittling people.

JinMori

Meta simply means most effective tactic available.

The difference between a meta and no meta build could be anywhere from 0.1% to however much you want basically.

Huyen

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

There is a big gap between meta and other options.
Take pet sorc
Take the old stamDK SnB/2h 7th Fury BS

When something is ahead by far, it is bad.

I found this to be purely pvp only to be honest. I'm running a non-meta build (most would call it downright crap) and yet I can still clear veteran content without breaking a sweat, unless its a crap group. Hell, I even hold my own in most of the pvp-battleground matches I do.

Korah_Eaglecry

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Calm_Fury wrote: »

People use "meta" as they use "system" and "the powers that be"... It is just a way to personify a single subject to blame for something.

There will ALWAYS be a mathematical best. Thus, always be a meta.

Even if that mathematical best is only 0.5% better, there will be LOADS of people chasing that 0.5%, even those that are still very very far from the skill level where that matters.

Right now in ESO you have several setups that are only 2-3% behind the "meta". Still, there are several people that can't break 60k on trial dummy that will spent all their time farming those meta gears instead of actually working on rotations, weaving and such.

Are you saying that meta builds perform 0.5% better than other builds?
Because that is not the case and you know it. Dont belittle people.

Thats not what they were saying and you should maybe take more time reading before instantly jumping to respond. You might avoid making yourself look foolish in the future.

mikemacon

The problem of course is that “meta” tends to not exactly mean meta...but rather the currently imposed orthodoxy. Especially given that there are more often than not multiple avenues to the same destination (effective engagement of any particular content) that the “meta” tends to resist due to that prevailing, imposed orthodoxy by what the devs call (somewhat tongue-in-cheek in the PTS patch notes livestream) “trendsetters”.

Your mileage may vary.

Aznarb

When content is designed around the meta it's a very bad thing.
Meta is create to do the content the most effective way.
If you create content around meta all other option are dead.

Godslayer achievement is the best example of that.

idk

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

There is a big gap between meta and other options.
Take pet sorc
Take the old stamDK SnB/2h 7th Fury BS

When something is ahead by far, it is bad.

We can probably find some specific builds that are performing beyond what Zos intended but that’s not what fractal is speaking to by any measure. That seems pretty clear.

With the multitude of choices we have we can play how we want but it seems pretty obvious some builds will work better overall than others. It also means some people will put together some pretty trashy builds and blame specific skills used by others for why they died. We see that in the forums all the time.

Vapirko

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Well as a stamDK I am happy that 7th and fury got nerfed.
As a stamina player I am happy that SnB has been brought in line with the other stamina weapons (not happy about making the shield a spammable tool).
I am happy that Rally isnt as OP anymore so that all classes have to run 2h.
I wont be happy is Zos ruins D. Swing instead of finding was to make the user of this awsome ability work harder for the result.

This is how nerfs should happen. When something makes all other options laughable, it should be nerfed.
I used to play wow. Not rly following the meta was viable. In eso? A casual game as you say? Oh boy. No meta, no kills.

Buffs should occur in abilities that nobody ever uses, like Igneous Weapons for example. Or Consealed Weapon.
Definatly not blanket buffs across all Dots by 60%.

Zos was never ever ever able to spot a problem and make ONE adjustment.
They have to touch everything and upset the balance in a new, spectacular way.

That’s not true at all.

GeorgeBlack

Vapirko wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Well as a stamDK I am happy that 7th and fury got nerfed.
As a stamina player I am happy that SnB has been brought in line with the other stamina weapons (not happy about making the shield a spammable tool).
I am happy that Rally isnt as OP anymore so that all classes have to run 2h.
I wont be happy is Zos ruins D. Swing instead of finding was to make the user of this awsome ability work harder for the result.

This is how nerfs should happen. When something makes all other options laughable, it should be nerfed.
I used to play wow. Not rly following the meta was viable. In eso? A casual game as you say? Oh boy. No meta, no kills.

Buffs should occur in abilities that nobody ever uses, like Igneous Weapons for example. Or Consealed Weapon.
Definatly not blanket buffs across all Dots by 60%.

Zos was never ever ever able to spot a problem and make ONE adjustment.
They have to touch everything and upset the balance in a new, spectacular way.

That’s not true at all.

Facts

Ysbriel

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

There is a big gap between meta and other options.
Take pet sorc
Take the old stamDK SnB/2h 7th Fury BS

When something is ahead by far, it is bad.

What you just said is an example of how nerfs have harmed this game. There were ways to stop that build which was a great build but people also wanted those methods nerfed. This game will soon not even feel like an RPG game but simply a MMOHack and Slash if they keep this up.