Why there is no trial with Manimarco as final boss ?

Delparis

In every mmorpg the vilain is always the last boss in raid/trial, but not in ESO...

StormeReigns

Cause he was a mouth piece puppet and Altmer.
Not even worthy of being a second hand side villain that he truly was.

susmitds

He got nerfed at the last moment to dead.

rotaugen454

Spoiler alert!



Before they nerfed him, he WAS like a group dungeon boss in the main quest line. He caused a lot of profanity to come out of my mouth.

VaranisArano

Because that honor would go to the Main Quest "Shadow of Sancre Tor". Assuming you finished that, you'd know why he's not the Final Boss of the Main Quest line.

I mean, Mannimarco wants to be the top dog, but we all know that's not going to happen until the conclusion to TES II Daggerfall when he becomes the Necromancer's Moon. And even then, we still kick his butt in TES IV Oblivion's Mages Guild questline.

Mannimarco: not as good as he thinks he is.

Or in the words of Abnur Tharn: "I find it hilarious that Mannimarco chose such a massive projected appearance. He's obviously overcompensating for something."

ProfessorKittyhawk

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Spoiler alert!



Before they nerfed him, he WAS like a group dungeon boss in the main quest line. He caused a lot of profanity to come out of my mouth.

I hear that. I think he was more difficult than Molag Bal back in the day.

Elsonso

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Spoiler alert!



Before they nerfed him, he WAS like a group dungeon boss in the main quest line. He caused a lot of profanity to come out of my mouth.

Oh yeah. He was the toughest battle in the main quest line.

But, as Mannimarco goes on to be a central figure in a story hundreds of years in the future, we don't get to do anything permanent with him.

rotaugen454

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Spoiler alert!



Before they nerfed him, he WAS like a group dungeon boss in the main quest line. He caused a lot of profanity to come out of my mouth.

I hear that. I think he was more difficult than Molag Bal back in the day.

Agreed. Molag Bal took one try, Manni took many, including a lot of repair kits.

Lasinagol

Lore based question...you technically kill Mannimarco, and as he is a powerful Necromancer, death is only the beginning. He has a living body in Molag Bal's realm...
Does he turn into a Lich or keep his living body before Daggerfall?
Joke: If death is only the beginning for him, I want him to start over hundreds of times while farming him

Elsonso

Lasinagol wrote: »

Lore based question...you technically kill Mannimarco, and as he is a powerful Necromancer, death is only the beginning. He has a living body in Molag Bal's realm...
Does he turn into a Lich or keep his living body before Daggerfall?

The last I saw of him in ESO, he still had a body. Not sure if it is his original one, or not. At the time of ESO, he is extremely old, so who knows. By Daggerfall, he is a Lich. By the time of his death in an unremarkable hole in the ground in Cyrodiil, he is probably close to 3000 years old.

VaranisArano

Lasinagol wrote: »

Lore based question...you technically kill Mannimarco, and as he is a powerful Necromancer, death is only the beginning. He has a living body in Molag Bal's realm...
Does he turn into a Lich or keep his living body before Daggerfall?
Joke: If death is only the beginning for him, I want him to start over hundreds of times while farming him

IIRC, Mannimarco

is killed during Shadow of Sancre Tor, then his spirit starts bragging that this is merely the beginning of his ascent to godhood, whereupon Molag Bal steps in like "Yeah, no, your soul is mine, idiot."

He is either freed or later escapes after the end of the MQ, and by the next time we see him in lore, he's a Lich fighting Vanus Galerion. He's presumed to be defeated, but it turns out he survived til Daggerfall, and in Oblivion we learn he'd soul trapped Vanus. Ouch.

But yeah, I've enjoyed fighting him with my other characters multiple times. And then I get to kick his butt again in Oblivion!

CyberOnEso

ESO handles raids differently than for example, WoW. In WoW the conclusion to a story is typically the raids, I think.
ZOS realises there are people who play their own way. People who play for story, play to fish, play to trade and PvP and those people shouldn't be locked out of finishing the story because they can't get a 12 person group together or don't have the time to invest in progressing through trials.

Karminathevamp

Because, like all the others, he is coming back again in a future DLC.

Lazarus_Rising

You forget that Mannimarco was only defeated through the effort of all the companions not you alone. And in Oblivion he would have instakilled you was it not for Traven.

ArchMikem

He was 'A' Villain, not 'THE' Villain.

Elsonso

Lazarus_Rising wrote: »

You forget that Mannimarco was only defeated through the effort of all the companions not you alone. And in Oblivion he would have instakilled you was it not for Traven.

I dunno about that. The first time I took on Mannimarco in ESO, I seem to recall that all of them "companion types" hung around by the entrance and drank tea while I did all the work.

BlueRaven

Delparis wrote: »

In every mmorpg the vilain is always the last boss in raid/trial, but not in ESO...

Because ESO is smarter than those other MMO's when it comes to story. They don't hide it.

And unlike those other MMO's your character is the center of attention. Your character is THE hero of the story.

Thirdly, Mannimarco appears in other ES games. So he cannot be killed in ESO.

(Wait, why am I wasting my time replying to Delparis? /sigh)

Jusey1

VaranisArano wrote: »

Because that honor would go to the Main Quest "Shadow of Sancre Tor". Assuming you finished that, you'd know why he's not the Final Boss of the Main Quest line.

I mean, Mannimarco wants to be the top dog, but we all know that's not going to happen until the conclusion to TES II Daggerfall when he becomes the Necromancer's Moon. And even then, we still kick his butt in TES IV Oblivion's Mages Guild questline.

Mannimarco: not as good as he thinks he is.

Or in the words of Abnur Tharn: "I find it hilarious that Mannimarco chose such a massive projected appearance. He's obviously overcompensating for something."

I mean... Mannimarco is technically the only villain in the Elder Scrolls universe who has succeeded at his attempts. Due to the creation of Talos at the end of Daggerfall, everything split into two in a way and every possible outcome happens... We yes, we killed A Mannimarco but there is still the one who became a God-like being (The Necromancer's Moon), and even if you discount that copy of Mannimarco... Even after death, he had the last laugh and his mortal enemy The Mages guild was disbanded and Necromancy actually became a legal art of magic in the 4th Era...

Take that in. No matter what we the players do... Mannimarco became a God, his mortal enemies destroyed, and his art of Necromancy became completely legal in Tamriel. Sure, he didn't outscheme Molag Bal and he couldn't defeat us in ESO, and his human clone couldn't defeat us in Oblivion but he still succeeded in the end.

No other villain that we face in this game series has ever truly succeeded. Molag Bal never took over Nirn. Mehrunes Dagon failed at his invasion. Dagoth Ur failed completely. Hircine failed his Bloodmoon ordeal against us. Alma failed at her own plot of keeping power... Jagnar Tharn failed completely... The list keeps going on. Mannimarco's great plan was to become a God and in the end... He succeeded.

Čičiliusku

VaranisArano wrote: »

Because that honor would go to the Main Quest "Shadow of Sancre Tor". Assuming you finished that, you'd know why he's not the Final Boss of the Main Quest line.

I mean, Mannimarco wants to be the top dog, but we all know that's not going to happen until the conclusion to TES II Daggerfall when he becomes the Necromancer's Moon. And even then, we still kick his butt in TES IV Oblivion's Mages Guild questline.

Mannimarco: not as good as he thinks he is.

Or in the words of Abnur Tharn: "I find it hilarious that Mannimarco chose such a massive projected appearance. He's obviously overcompensating for something."

Wait, I thought that only one of the endings in TES II could be canon, depending on what you choose to do with the mantella.

Lazarus_Rising

lordrichter wrote: »

Lazarus_Rising wrote: »

You forget that Mannimarco was only defeated through the effort of all the companions not you alone. And in Oblivion he would have instakilled you was it not for Traven.

I dunno about that. The first time I took on Mannimarco in ESO, I seem to recall that all of them "companion types" hung around by the entrance and drank tea while I did all the work.

Pls man, you know that what happens ingame is not how it works in the lore...

Čičiliusku wrote: »

Wait, I thought that only one of the endings in TES II could be canon, depending on what you choose to do with the mantella.

Through the Dragonbreach all the events are canon.

Karminathevamp wrote: »

Because, like all the others, he is coming back again in a future DLC.

He might come back for the fight with Vanus and the Mage Guild. RIP Vanus tho.

redgreensunset

Čičiliusku wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Because that honor would go to the Main Quest "Shadow of Sancre Tor". Assuming you finished that, you'd know why he's not the Final Boss of the Main Quest line.

I mean, Mannimarco wants to be the top dog, but we all know that's not going to happen until the conclusion to TES II Daggerfall when he becomes the Necromancer's Moon. And even then, we still kick his butt in TES IV Oblivion's Mages Guild questline.

Mannimarco: not as good as he thinks he is.

Or in the words of Abnur Tharn: "I find it hilarious that Mannimarco chose such a massive projected appearance. He's obviously overcompensating for something."

Wait, I thought that only one of the endings in TES II could be canon, depending on what you choose to do with the mantella.

Nope, they're all canon. Because of the mess with so many different possible endings and what to declare canon, the story creators of the games invented the Dragon Break and declared that they all happened. Don't think too hard about it it's like quantum theory, it makes no sense if you try to apply everyday logic to it.

Edit. I wonder what what canon will do with the outcome of the Skyrim Civil War in TES VI.

TheShadowScout

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Before they nerfed him, he WAS like a group dungeon boss in the main quest line. He caused a lot of profanity to come out of my mouth.

YES! I feel with you, I sent my main against him so many times only to leave near tears after a dozend respawns without even coming close to beating him... twice - at level 40, and at level 45... only at 50, ten levels overleveled (back when that was still a thing) did I finally win that fight!
But hey, it felt much better then a great many of the bosses these days - exactly because it was such a tough fight!
I often wish they would not have nerfed things quite this much sometimes... on the other hand, I understand why they did.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Or in the words of Abnur Tharn: "I find it hilarious that Mannimarco chose such a massive projected appearance. He's obviously overcompensating for something."

Well, he DID call his little cult "The order of the black WORM"...

FierceSam

Because the idea of putting a play through story into a trial is even more foolish than putting story into 4 player dungeons.

It doesn’t work because no one else wants to go at exactly the same speed as me.. some want to take more story time, others want to blitz right through and it is just no fun. Not for them, not for me.

I know that every dungeon has a story/quest and that is great, but even in dungeons like the Wrathstone ones, where the story is apparently ‘integral’ to the experience, it is not fun to do. Even the specific story runs we did were messy as people did the quests/story bits at their own pace, then waited or ran to the next boss fight.

Can’t imagine how you cope with doing that with 12 people. Sounds like a great way to *** at least 11 of them off.

SipofMaim

lordrichter wrote: »

Lazarus_Rising wrote: »

You forget that Mannimarco was only defeated through the effort of all the companions not you alone. And in Oblivion he would have instakilled you was it not for Traven.

I dunno about that. The first time I took on Mannimarco in ESO, I seem to recall that all of them "companion types" hung around by the entrance and drank tea while I did all the work.

They always do.

Elsonso

redgreensunset wrote: »

Edit. I wonder what what canon will do with the outcome of the Skyrim Civil War in TES VI.

What I expect is that the messing around with time using the Elder Scrolls and the win over Alduin reset the timeline so that the events of TES 5 never officially happened. Time split, the Dragonborn, and all he or she did after that, continued on in an alternate timeline that is separate from what happens next in Tamriel.

What I want is for them to just declare the winner and use that as the basis for the fall of the Thalmor-backed Empire, which somehow ties into the events of TES 6.

I am more curious about how the future sees the resolution of all that has happened in ESO. Will Todd just decide to ignore it all using some sort of time device, like I mention above, or find a way to incorporate it into the game via books? I can say right now that if Todd ignores ESO, or writes it off in some time discontinuity, I won't be buying his game. (Edit: I would see that as a turf war between BGS and ZOS, and frankly, I would rather just walk away)

Mitrenga

Manni is a door mat now.

SipofMaim

lordrichter wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

Edit. I wonder what what canon will do with the outcome of the Skyrim Civil War in TES VI.

What I expect is that the messing around with time using the Elder Scrolls and the win over Alduin reset the timeline so that the events of TES 5 never officially happened. Time split, the Dragonborn, and all he or she did after that, continued on in an alternate timeline that is separate from what happens next in Tamriel.

What I want is for them to just declare the winner and use that as the basis for the fall of the Thalmor-backed Empire, which somehow ties into the events of TES 6.

I am more curious about how the future sees the resolution of all that has happened in ESO. Will Todd just decide to ignore it all using some sort of time device, like I mention above, or find a way to incorporate it into the game via books? I can say right now that if Todd ignores ESO, or writes it off in some time discontinuity, I won't be buying his game. (Edit: I would see that as a turf war between BGS and ZOS, and frankly, I would rather just walk away)

Cool, I love it when RPGs make my choices completely meaningless.

I suppose it's too much to ask for them to have their official cannon but allow us to Dragon Age Keep our own in there.

Elsonso

SipofMaim wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

Edit. I wonder what what canon will do with the outcome of the Skyrim Civil War in TES VI.

What I expect is that the messing around with time using the Elder Scrolls and the win over Alduin reset the timeline so that the events of TES 5 never officially happened. Time split, the Dragonborn, and all he or she did after that, continued on in an alternate timeline that is separate from what happens next in Tamriel.

What I want is for them to just declare the winner and use that as the basis for the fall of the Thalmor-backed Empire, which somehow ties into the events of TES 6.

I am more curious about how the future sees the resolution of all that has happened in ESO. Will Todd just decide to ignore it all using some sort of time device, like I mention above, or find a way to incorporate it into the game via books? I can say right now that if Todd ignores ESO, or writes it off in some time discontinuity, I won't be buying his game. (Edit: I would see that as a turf war between BGS and ZOS, and frankly, I would rather just walk away)

Cool, I love it when RPGs make my choices completely meaningless.

I suppose it's too much to ask for them to have their official cannon but allow us to Dragon Age Keep our own in there.

Well, they set up Skyrim with a player decision, which goes over great for that game, but presents the inevitable reality that the player's actions don't really matter when it comes to the sequel.

With the Three Banners War in ESO Cyrodiil, the best decision along those lines is to simply say that the war ended and none of the three won, but that still makes the player actions irrelevant.

SipofMaim

lordrichter wrote: »

SipofMaim wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

Edit. I wonder what what canon will do with the outcome of the Skyrim Civil War in TES VI.

What I expect is that the messing around with time using the Elder Scrolls and the win over Alduin reset the timeline so that the events of TES 5 never officially happened. Time split, the Dragonborn, and all he or she did after that, continued on in an alternate timeline that is separate from what happens next in Tamriel.

What I want is for them to just declare the winner and use that as the basis for the fall of the Thalmor-backed Empire, which somehow ties into the events of TES 6.

I am more curious about how the future sees the resolution of all that has happened in ESO. Will Todd just decide to ignore it all using some sort of time device, like I mention above, or find a way to incorporate it into the game via books? I can say right now that if Todd ignores ESO, or writes it off in some time discontinuity, I won't be buying his game. (Edit: I would see that as a turf war between BGS and ZOS, and frankly, I would rather just walk away)

Cool, I love it when RPGs make my choices completely meaningless.

I suppose it's too much to ask for them to have their official cannon but allow us to Dragon Age Keep our own in there.

Well, they set up Skyrim with a player decision, which goes over great for that game, but presents the inevitable reality that the player's actions don't really matter when it comes to the sequel.

With the Three Banners War in ESO Cyrodiil, the best decision along those lines is to simply say that the war ended and none of the three won, but that still makes the player actions irrelevant.

Sure, but it bothers me less with the MMO.

But the Last Dragonborn, hero of legend! Saved the world single-handedly! Decisively decided Skyrim's civil war!

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Well what can you do.

VaranisArano

lordrichter wrote: »

SipofMaim wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

Edit. I wonder what what canon will do with the outcome of the Skyrim Civil War in TES VI.

What I expect is that the messing around with time using the Elder Scrolls and the win over Alduin reset the timeline so that the events of TES 5 never officially happened. Time split, the Dragonborn, and all he or she did after that, continued on in an alternate timeline that is separate from what happens next in Tamriel.

What I want is for them to just declare the winner and use that as the basis for the fall of the Thalmor-backed Empire, which somehow ties into the events of TES 6.

I am more curious about how the future sees the resolution of all that has happened in ESO. Will Todd just decide to ignore it all using some sort of time device, like I mention above, or find a way to incorporate it into the game via books? I can say right now that if Todd ignores ESO, or writes it off in some time discontinuity, I won't be buying his game. (Edit: I would see that as a turf war between BGS and ZOS, and frankly, I would rather just walk away)

Cool, I love it when RPGs make my choices completely meaningless.

I suppose it's too much to ask for them to have their official cannon but allow us to Dragon Age Keep our own in there.

Well, they set up Skyrim with a player decision, which goes over great for that game, but presents the inevitable reality that the player's actions don't really matter when it comes to the sequel.

With the Three Banners War in ESO Cyrodiil, the best decision along those lines is to simply say that the war ended and none of the three won, but that still makes the player actions irrelevant.

Well, the Three Banners War already had a canon ending. It takes place during an era where alI the lore that survived the chaos until future games was that it was a time of chaos, war, lots of civil war and tons of forgotten emperors, until Tiber Septim showed up and started the Septim Dynasty.

I do think there's a distinction between ESO where canonically nothing matters until Tiber Septim shows up and we knew that going in vs Bethesda deciding by fiat to neutralize player decisions in Daggerfall and possibly Skyrim.

With ESO, that's just part of the established lore and the framework within which we play.

What I really don't want for Skyrim is for Bethesda to pick sides and call one of the Imperial or Stormcloak endings non-canon. Don't give me a genuine choice that's central to gameplay and roleplay and then later call all of my Dragonborn who made a particular choice non-canon. That would be annoying AF.

red_emu

I remember when Mannimarco was so OP it took me about 15 times to kill him! I managed to crack my desk from slamming my fists 😂