Feeling like the Iron Atronach is a ridiculous representation of DPS capibility

Somber97866

When groups I've been in do a parse together I don't really see all these buffs tbh. I guess if the group had one of each class in it casting a skill from each tree and tanks as nords so that warhorn uptime is 100% but still, seems bogus.
I don't know if there is a way to get an accurate DPS rep. without combat metrics on console. On computer I guess this is all moot.

x48rph

The Iron Antronach is completely unrealistic as a measure of dps for I'd say 99.9% of groups. Keeping up all those buffs at the same time takes a ridiculous amount of coordination and planning. Honestly I also think this stupid target dummy has contributed to nerfs as well because people post insane, unrealistic numbers so it looks like power creep is way greater than it actually is. Not to mention, people parse on it , get great numbers and then go into a trial and can't figure out why their struggling and why stuff isn't melting like it should.

b95fister

The iron Atro standardizes dps tests. Solo parses on a 3 or 6 mil can very widely based on what ‘outside ‘ buff are used or if lover mudus etc... the iron atro is not meant to be YOu will do this much dps but as a standardization test

Besides if you parse well in a 3 or 6 mil you will parse fine in a iron atro.

All this post is, is crying that you can’t parse well on ANY dummy

Oakmontowls_ESO

The iron atronach is a way to be able to compare parses across classes. It levels the playing field by removing the slight advantages that certain classes had for parsing. An example would be minor berzerk being on (formerly) two classes.

Red_Feather

ESO streamers showing off DPS remind me of Warframe Streamers using the Simulacrum to show off new guns. At least one Warframe streamer has a disclaimer saying this presentation is BS and you'll never see these numbers in a real mission.

Heyodude

the iron atronach is so you can practice your rotation, it helps you min max your rotation around what should be a reasonable amount of stam/mag regen. the variables are 2 times their worth in real game scenario. So if youre pulling mid to high 70k then you are doing it right. The inflated numbers have nothing to do with the nerfs in game.

Frostystuff

b95fister wrote: »

The iron Atro standardizes dps tests. Solo parses on a 3 or 6 mil can very widely based on what ‘outside ‘ buff are used or if lover mudus etc... the iron atro is not meant to be YOu will do this much dps but as a standardization test

Besides if you parse well in a 3 or 6 mil you will parse fine in a iron atro.

All this post is, is crying that you can’t parse well on ANY dummy

Point one yes

Point two no.

Nerf justification post are often comparing current 100k iron atro parses to 6mil parses ayear ago as evidence of dps creep. I think everyone knows there has been creep but the poster is just talking about how bloated that makes it look.

Heyodude

b95fister wrote: »

The iron Atro standardizes dps tests. Solo parses on a 3 or 6 mil can very widely based on what ‘outside ‘ buff are used or if lover mudus etc... the iron atro is not meant to be YOu will do this much dps but as a standardization test

Besides if you parse well in a 3 or 6 mil you will parse fine in a iron atro.

All this post is, is crying that you can’t parse well on ANY dummy

and its an easier metric to determine how well you are doing because you know you and everyone else is getting the same exact buffs. there were to many players cheesing parses by getting out of group buffs on 6mils. its actually a really great tool for fine tuning your dps

buttaface

b95fister wrote: »

All this post is, is crying that you can’t parse well on ANY dummy

All the above claim is , is a straw man.

Sanguinor2

Iron Atro is great for comparing the different dps specs to one another since there are nearly all the same buffs and debuffs present (Major vuln is excluded tho).

Lazarus_Rising

Everyone knows thats it not realistic this doesn't have to be brought up every week...

Still it gives an oversight and can be interpreted so pls stop this recurring nonsense topic...

NocturnalSonata

I know, lets do a 6 mill parse with a friend laying down, combat prayer, ele drain, shards, and horn... wait a moment...

There are bare minimum things any half competent group should provide. Sure the dummy is overtuned and over optimized, but it gives you a representation of the potential your build has. All a 6 mill solo dummy parse tells me, is that this is what pug group doing a vet dungeon with a healer and tank offering zero buffs is gonna be like, and that maybe i need to tune my sustain a bit.

Don't get me wrong both provide information that is useful, but for a baseline of dps, the iron fella is far superior, and tbh any guild that is not using it to determine dps potential is basically suggesting that their healers and tanks are offering nothing.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

x48rph wrote: »

Not to mention, people parse on it , get great numbers and then go into a trial and can't figure out
why their struggling and why stuff isn't melting like it should.

Not only that, but trying to stay still do their parse, standing on red circle and complaining to the healers why they let them die.

valeriiya

I was shocked at how much higher my DPS was on the Iron Atronach. Still not record breaking but better. Which one are trial guilds asking you to use and what's their dps number for vet trials now, has it changed?

Shantu

I still do the bulky of my parsing on a 3 mil. I wish the trial dummy had about a third or half of its health. I don't need to waste 4+ minutes of my life hammering on a dummy to tell me if my parse is working or not.

xeNNNNN

Always drop 5-10k DPS from the number you get on the raid dummy. Always. Because if your tanks and healers are good the uptimes will be reasonable. So its maybe a 5k loss max if you the buff uptimes are in the 70%-80% range. If they arent that great then 10k perhaps more. Nobody can garauntee 100% uptime on everything so. (all that is per player obviously).

SidraWillowsky

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Always drop 5-10k DPS from the number you get on the raid dummy. Always. Because if your tanks and healers are good the uptimes will be reasonable. So its maybe a 5k loss max if you the buff uptimes are in the 70%-80% range. If they arent that great then 10k perhaps more. Nobody can garauntee 100% uptime on everything so. (all that is per player obviously).

It's a MUCH larger disparity for me. I hit 82k on the trial dummy, but my max when self-buffed on a 6 mil is 50k. My max DPS in trials/dungeons sits around 45-50k, so for me the 6 mil is much, much more accurate. I’ll eat my foot the day I see 82k in a trial.

WrathOfInnos

I’d say the Iron Atronach actually underestimates DPS in a good raid group. Sure the 100% Major Force is unreasonable, but the dummy also lacks a lot of raid buffs that should be present on a real boss: Z’en’s, Martial Knowledge, Major Vulnerability, Morag Tong, etc.

Vapirko

Now people even want parse dummies nerfed? This is it folks, the end of ESO.

Lasinagol

I love the Iron Atronach! It is in my Black Vine Villa in a special alcove...the Precursor is next to it...absolutely love those things. The don't represent much, but are great to get ballpark numbers and to practice on. Finally hit 90k in 3sec because of the Iron Atro Buffs...

Austinseph1

Its a great way for youtubers to make a build look more enticing for more views, but you shouldn't expect reach those numbers in any actual combat circumstance. I wouldn't take any build that couldn't properly self sustain against a 6 mil self buffed into a group scenario. Its great for comparing max dps for comparisons of classes but for personal builds unless its a raid only build a normal target dummy would give a more accurate reading of what to expect out of your character.

Somber97866

Heyodude I parse second to highest in my trial team. I never expressed resentment to the dummy but since you want to act like a dummy then I'm expressing resentment towards you

Alcast

The only thing the Iron Atronach is good for is to standardize the dps tests so you can actually see how you perform compared to someone else.

Sure you could do that too with 3 or 6mil dummies, but classes and builds have different buffs/debuffs and it made it just overall a pain.

DPS will always go down in a raid unless you play with a very good group. I think most people know that.

Kalik_Gold

It’s also an ugly target and won’t be in my home. Bring back the Dro’Mathra target please.

Back on topic, it is an unrealistic expectation target and I do agree it skews high. Most groups can’t maintain buffs and coordination of all to be up simultaneously.

I also didn’t find it fair that people used outside buffs on 3m and 6m. So not sure what is best option. I play on console if it matters.

El_Borracho

The parse dummy went from being a helpful tool to let people see what their raw numbers are, so they could improve their rotation, to this stupid m%&$#tory competition. People cheated at the un-buffed dummies, either with their off-screen healer or tank buffing them and/or wearing monster gear to cheese their numbers they would never wear in a trial. Players wanted to cut out the middle-man, and voila, the iron atro. Which, of course, made the dummy-humpers go loco that they could screenshot their shiny high score and/or have something to talk about while group members constantly rezzed them in trials.

The dummies were never meant to be an accurate representation of what someone could do in a trial. The only utility they have beyond that was a benchmark for guilds doing score runs and/or harder vet content like VMOL so raids don't spend all night in there. But even then mechanics will kill a group more than someone's (in)ability to stand still and hit buttons in sequence.

p00tx

The dummies show what you can achieve individually, all things being equal. If I see two separate parses from two separate players, both on Stamcros and both with the same gear set up, and one is hitting 100k while the other is hitting 75k, I'm picking the 100k guy for my raid team because it shows they can execute their rotation better than the other person, which typically means they'll be better able to keep consistent damage up during mechanics in raid and they'll likely have better time on target because they don't have to think as hard about thier rotation. It's not a reflection of the value of the 75k players, but it just means they need more time learning their rotation before they employ it in the content we're running.

I don't think a lot of people really actually understand the value of the dummies, especially for those of us on Console who don't have Combat Metrics.

El_Borracho

@p00tx I agree to an extent. If we are talking about a 25K difference between 2 players in you scenario, that's obvious (or a 10K on the old unbuffed dummy). But you are also envisioning a scenario where the 2 players are wearing raid gear and doing a rotation they plan to use in a raid. In that case, you're spot on.

I was speaking more to the parse addicts who wear gear, use mundus stones, and use pots they do not plan on using in a raid, for the sole purpose of inflating numbers. Those parses are worthless.