MAG SORCS

flooed

I think shields should be uncritical since shields only go for 50/60 % of health and frags should get its stun back since it’s damage has been nerfed a lot. Just some things to make sorcs viable again (no pets)

Ucarious

flooed wrote: »

I think shields should be uncritical since shields only go for 50/60 % of health and frags should get its stun back since it’s damage has been nerfed a lot. Just some things to make sorcs viable again (no pets)

Just kite more until next patch when DoTs get the shaft. Once that happens sorc will feel fantastic again for everyone.

NuarBlack

Um no. Shields might need some adjustments but making them uncritable is not it and frags is perfectly fine right now

Ucarious

NuarBlack wrote: »

Um no. Shields might need some adjustments but making them uncritable is not it and frags is perfectly fine right now

I've advocated for a maybe 10-15% ward increase for sorcerer ward only since sorcerer is the "shield my butt" class for defenses.

But, with the DoT nerfs and twilight heal buffs etc coming in Dragonhold I don't think that will be wholly necessary.

ThePedge

Nerf Magsorc

RighteousBacon

flooed wrote: »

I think shields should be uncritical since shields only go for 50/60 % of health and frags should get its stun back since it’s damage has been nerfed a lot. Just some things to make sorcs viable again (no pets)

Have you been talking to iNexx?

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Plenty of sorcs don’t have any issues. If anything increase time you have shields instead of this 6 second crap. Other than that no.

InvictusApollo

Shields are useless on magsorc now. Slotting Hardened Ward and building for it, gives worse results than Rapid Regeneration.

talfx5

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Shields are useless on magsorc now. Slotting Hardened Ward and building for it, gives worse results than Rapid Regeneration.

what are you talking about?
Heals over time are op, thats known, but you cant do that with a sorc. you would get bursted by any decent player without the ward.

Iskiab

talfx5 wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Shields are useless on magsorc now. Slotting Hardened Ward and building for it, gives worse results than Rapid Regeneration.

what are you talking about?
Heals over time are op, thats known, but you cant do that with a sorc. you would get bursted by any decent player without the ward.

Resistances and mitigation reduce how fast your shields deplete, so if you would take a 5k hit normally you’ll take a 3.5k hit with major protection up.

Being a sorc doesn’t mean you need to wear all light and try to be a glass canon. Going for maximum magicka doesn’t solve all sorc problems.

Lord-Otto

Iskiab wrote: »

talfx5 wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Shields are useless on magsorc now. Slotting Hardened Ward and building for it, gives worse results than Rapid Regeneration.

what are you talking about?
Heals over time are op, thats known, but you cant do that with a sorc. you would get bursted by any decent player without the ward.

Resistances and mitigation reduce how fast your shields deplete, so if you would take a 5k hit normally you’ll take a 3.5k hit with major protection up.

Being a sorc doesn’t mean you need to wear all light and try to be a glass canon. Going for maximum magicka doesn’t solve all sorc problems.

But we're missing mitigation tools to let support those HoTs. As in, block and dodge.

Iskiab

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

talfx5 wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Shields are useless on magsorc now. Slotting Hardened Ward and building for it, gives worse results than Rapid Regeneration.

what are you talking about?
Heals over time are op, thats known, but you cant do that with a sorc. you would get bursted by any decent player without the ward.

Resistances and mitigation reduce how fast your shields deplete, so if you would take a 5k hit normally you’ll take a 3.5k hit with major protection up.

Being a sorc doesn’t mean you need to wear all light and try to be a glass canon. Going for maximum magicka doesn’t solve all sorc problems.

But we're missing mitigation tools to let support those HoTs. As in, block and dodge.

Mitigation is also evasion, vitality and protection.

I know what you mean, a sorc cannot be built to be as tanky as a DK for example but you do have streak.

I just mean a lot of players try going overboard. If you use divines or no heavy armour pieces shields will be useless yea. You can get more bang from shields using say bloodspawn as your monster set than trying to use two 1 piece magicka pieces in those slots.

Emma_Overload

I think they need to go the other direction: allow shields themselves to crit!

If my 10K shield critted to an 18K shield half the time, the cost nerf wouldn't seem so crippling.

Tolino

You should calculate something more! My Magsorc with 37k Magicka (no cp) has a 7902 Hardend Ward. With a heal I would need 15.8k Burstheal (Tooltip) to achieve the same!

chrightt

Tolino wrote: »

You should calculate something more! My Magsorc with 37k Magicka (no cp) has a 7902 Hardend Ward. With a heal I would need 15.8k Burstheal (Tooltip) to achieve the same!

Shields are halved as well in PVP. Lmao.

On topic, I successfully run a magsorc without shield in scalebreaker. I can tell you building a bit tankier and using heals to sustain works MUCH better this patch. You need far less Mag regen so you just become overall bulkier and it helps you escape execute range a lot better. Try running buffer of the swift set. Rapid regen + surge will help you survive easily with a set like buffer and your other set doesn’t need to be built on max magicka either since you’re not using pets/shields.

Tolino

chrightt wrote: »

Tolino wrote: »

You should calculate something more! My Magsorc with 37k Magicka (no cp) has a 7902 Hardend Ward. With a heal I would need 15.8k Burstheal (Tooltip) to achieve the same!

Shields are halved as well in PVP. Lmao.

On topic, I successfully run a magsorc without shield in scalebreaker. I can tell you building a bit tankier and using heals to sustain works MUCH better this patch. You need far less Mag regen so you just become overall bulkier and it helps you escape execute range a lot better. Try running buffer of the swift set. Rapid regen + surge will help you survive easily with a set like buffer and your other set doesn’t need to be built on max magicka either since you’re not using pets/shields.

Yes, shields are also halved in PvP. But you already see the reduction in the tooltip! And show me the 15.8k Burstheal Tooltip (No CP). So stop laughing

In my opinion, Swift is far too defensive. I feel already comfortable with Chudan, Shackel and bright.

Aedaryl

Tolino wrote: »

chrightt wrote: »

Tolino wrote: »

You should calculate something more! My Magsorc with 37k Magicka (no cp) has a 7902 Hardend Ward. With a heal I would need 15.8k Burstheal (Tooltip) to achieve the same!

Shields are halved as well in PVP. Lmao.

On topic, I successfully run a magsorc without shield in scalebreaker. I can tell you building a bit tankier and using heals to sustain works MUCH better this patch. You need far less Mag regen so you just become overall bulkier and it helps you escape execute range a lot better. Try running buffer of the swift set. Rapid regen + surge will help you survive easily with a set like buffer and your other set doesn’t need to be built on max magicka either since you’re not using pets/shields.

Yes, shields are also halved in PvP. But you already see the reduction in the tooltip! And show me the 15.8k Burstheal Tooltip (No CP). So stop laughing

In my opinion, Swift is far too defensive. I feel already comfortable with Chudan, Shackel and bright.

You forget all the healing modifiers you can stack with heal + the fact that heal can crit. With the diminition of defile and the shields nerfs, there is no doubt that shields are trash.

If shield was competitive, everyone would run Dampen magicka.

Lord-Otto

Iskiab wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

talfx5 wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Shields are useless on magsorc now. Slotting Hardened Ward and building for it, gives worse results than Rapid Regeneration.

what are you talking about?
Heals over time are op, thats known, but you cant do that with a sorc. you would get bursted by any decent player without the ward.

Resistances and mitigation reduce how fast your shields deplete, so if you would take a 5k hit normally you’ll take a 3.5k hit with major protection up.

Being a sorc doesn’t mean you need to wear all light and try to be a glass canon. Going for maximum magicka doesn’t solve all sorc problems.

But we're missing mitigation tools to let support those HoTs. As in, block and dodge.

Mitigation is also evasion, vitality and protection.

I know what you mean, a sorc cannot be built to be as tanky as a DK for example but you do have streak.

I just mean a lot of players try going overboard. If you use divines or no heavy armour pieces shields will be useless yea. You can get more bang from shields using say bloodspawn as your monster set than trying to use two 1 piece magicka pieces in those slots.

Streak really doesn't help HoTs. It's clunky to use in Cyro terrain and mitigates no damage. It's not like dodge or Cloak in this regard, which really negate certain damage. Or block.
I'm using full impen and Bloodspawn or occassionally Shadowrend. I think no one who's played more than three days Cyro uses divines anymore, that has vanished a long time ago, think it was after the shield duration nerf.
But you bring up a good point with Protection, Evasion, etc.. Reason Templars do comparatively better than sorcs without shields is the addition of other effects. Sorcs aren't built for that. Vitality, for example, could be moved to a healing skill like Surge or Matriarch to give synergy. That and similar would work.
But at the end of the day, sorcs weren't built for that, people chose sorcs for shields, and it really would be a waste of precious time trying to change that. ZOS got bigger problems to take care of.

josh.lackey_ESO

The last nerf to increase the cost and reduce the size "to bring them in line with burst healing" was unnecessary. They are pretty bad now.

Vapirko

In CP they seem fine. I just geared up my mag sorc after not playing for like six months and spent a solid 3 hours 2vXing all up and down the 7 day camp with my buddy. We were litterally destroying groups of 7+ occasionally with a random or two joining in. I was just using hardened back at and dampened front with rapid mutagen and entropy as my heals. 5/2 light armor with chudan. Imo sorcs still do what they always do best which is high mobility and wicked burst. I’m not sure how much you could buff shields without making them OP. I think next patch mag sorcs will be very very good. That’s just my inexperienced opinion though. In no CP I can see them being much harder to play.

Tolino

Aedaryl wrote: »

You forget all the healing modifiers you can stack with heal + the fact that heal can crit. With the diminition of defile and the shields nerfs, there is no doubt that shields are trash.

If shield was competitive, everyone would run Dampen magicka.

And you forget all the healing decrease debuffs. And I have not forgotten that Heal can also crit! You would still need a crit with a 10.5k Burstheal (1.5 crit modifier because this are no CP stats). But your heals don't always crit.
And the biggest advantage has not been mentioned yet! Shields have a 6s duration. This will give you a a bigger offensive window!
Don't say shields are trash! They are realy solid at this moment. Not as OP as before!

chrightt

Tolino wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

You forget all the healing modifiers you can stack with heal + the fact that heal can crit. With the diminition of defile and the shields nerfs, there is no doubt that shields are trash.

If shield was competitive, everyone would run Dampen magicka.

And you forget all the healing decrease debuffs. And I have not forgotten that Heal can also crit! You would still need a crit with a 10.5k Burstheal (1.5 crit modifier because this are no CP stats). But your heals don't always crit.
And the biggest advantage has not been mentioned yet! Shields have a 6s duration. This will give you a a bigger offensive window!
Don't say shields are trash! They are realy solid at this moment. Not as OP as before!

Shields ONLY have a 6s window meaning that if our opponent chooses to buff up or run or whatever during the 6s you aren’t even “healing” for a single point of damage! Don’t forget the biggest kicker is shields are much more expensive than heals so if you activate shield and streak away you might not even get the full value of shields! Wonderful. Oh yeah, if they destroy the shield in one or two hits your 6s offensive window now turns into 2 seconds. Nice. Have not come across a magsorc that beat me this patch yet, literally only I would literally trade shields for any other classes “burst heal” now. I.e. Templar’s honor the dead or DK’s blood

Iskiab

Tolino wrote: »

chrightt wrote: »

Tolino wrote: »

You should calculate something more! My Magsorc with 37k Magicka (no cp) has a 7902 Hardend Ward. With a heal I would need 15.8k Burstheal (Tooltip) to achieve the same!

Shields are halved as well in PVP. Lmao.

On topic, I successfully run a magsorc without shield in scalebreaker. I can tell you building a bit tankier and using heals to sustain works MUCH better this patch. You need far less Mag regen so you just become overall bulkier and it helps you escape execute range a lot better. Try running buffer of the swift set. Rapid regen + surge will help you survive easily with a set like buffer and your other set doesn’t need to be built on max magicka either since you’re not using pets/shields.

Yes, shields are also halved in PvP. But you already see the reduction in the tooltip! And show me the 15.8k Burstheal Tooltip (No CP). So stop laughing

In my opinion, Swift is far too defensive. I feel already comfortable with Chudan, Shackel and bright.

A bit of a detailing the thread, but you asked for it:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/572500016732569610/623649179507490823/Screenshot_20190917_183712.png

Link work? 15.2 healthy offering, 19.5 including Symbiosis. It’s with CPs though.

InvictusApollo

talfx5 wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Shields are useless on magsorc now. Slotting Hardened Ward and building for it, gives worse results than Rapid Regeneration.

what are you talking about?
Heals over time are op, thats known, but you cant do that with a sorc. you would get bursted by any decent player without the ward.

Actually you can. I've created quite a tanky build for a sorc that doesn't use any wards.

chrightt wrote: »

Tolino wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

You forget all the healing modifiers you can stack with heal + the fact that heal can crit. With the diminition of defile and the shields nerfs, there is no doubt that shields are trash.

If shield was competitive, everyone would run Dampen magicka.

And you forget all the healing decrease debuffs. And I have not forgotten that Heal can also crit! You would still need a crit with a 10.5k Burstheal (1.5 crit modifier because this are no CP stats). But your heals don't always crit.
And the biggest advantage has not been mentioned yet! Shields have a 6s duration. This will give you a a bigger offensive window!
Don't say shields are trash! They are realy solid at this moment. Not as OP as before!

Shields ONLY have a 6s window meaning that if our opponent chooses to buff up or run or whatever during the 6s you aren’t even “healing” for a single point of damage! Don’t forget the biggest kicker is shields are much more expensive than heals so if you activate shield and streak away you might not even get the full value of shields! Wonderful. Oh yeah, if they destroy the shield in one or two hits your 6s offensive window now turns into 2 seconds. Nice. Have not come across a magsorc that beat me this patch yet, literally only I would literally trade shields for any other classes “burst heal” now. I.e. Templar’s honor the dead or DK’s blood

I agree. Shields on Magsorc are underperforming right now. Sure they are immune to defile but nether can crit like heals nor bring you out of execute range. Hardened Ward should have a higher effective value than Templar's burst heal. Only then they would have the same power.