Request from my tank

tigerborn62

"I need a group taunt, please. Thank you and god bless."

VaranisArano

Request from my tank: God, no. I like tanking to be more exciting than: AOE Taunt -> hold block while healer heals me and DDs burn everything.


ZOS designed PVE group content specifically so the tank can't taunt everything, so that the healer and DDs have to be able to handle some of the mobs. The dungeons, especially, are not designed for an AOE taunt. You need to prioritize your targets and crowd control the other adds. You don't need a group taunt.

Agenericname

You want a group taunt, you don't need one. Seeing how the content is cleared without one, its not a necessity.

I disagree with wanting one. Some of the choices a tank makes are based on those limitations and adds depth to tanking.

Jolipinator

Why would you want to taunt your group? Extra hard mode?

Ratzkifal

Maybe as an undaunted ultimate but as a regular skill it's really boring design and makes the tank role trivial and less fun over all.

AcadianPaladin

Tanks are so happy with the status quo that they are lining up to get into dungeon queues. We're almost overrun with tanks since everything works so wonderfully for them. . . oh. . . wait.

Jeremy

tigerborn62 wrote: »

"I need a group taunt, please. Thank you and god bless."

It would be convenient, but ultimately have a negative effect on the strategic elements of combat - which is the last thing this game needs. It's already too easy as it is to simply burn through everything and this change would only make a bad problem even worse. So I'm going to have to decline this suggestion.

rotaugen454

I want my tank to have an AOE taunt that works on enemy players in Cyrodiil. Not in a small circle, rather it taunts EVERY enemy player in all of Cyrodiil, forcing them to all sprint full speed at me. Yes, I will die, but the screenshots will be glorious!

gatekeeper13

Dont think a group taunt is actually needed. What I would prefer is zos make the mobs target random characters and not the healers 90% the time. There are many situations where I have attacked the mobs first (wall of elements ice + caltrops), everyone in the group is behind me and the mobs ignore me to attack the healer. That's annoying.

In dungeons where some pretty strong enemies make a difference (like Stone Watchers in vDoM who can one-shot a dd) your taunt should prioritize them and leave the rest to the DDs. Not need for group taunt there. Just focus on the most dangerous enemies. If a dd cant take out 1-2 trash monsters, the problem is on them, not you.

Royaji

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I want my tank to have an AOE taunt that works on enemy players in Cyrodiil. Not in a small circle, rather it taunts EVERY enemy player in all of Cyrodiil, forcing them to all sprint full speed at me. Yes, I will die, but the screenshots will be glorious!

Reroll to a fat orc in wedding dress and start bunny-hopping all the time. Should get the job done.

Puzzlenuts

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I want my tank to have an AOE taunt that works on enemy players in Cyrodiil. Not in a small circle, rather it taunts EVERY enemy player in all of Cyrodiil, forcing them to all sprint full speed at me. Yes, I will die, but the screenshots will be glorious!

That would be fun.

maddiniiLuna

Hello,

When i tank i try to make sure to be the first one to go in the enemy group and i'll snare them. Usually you have their attention after this and then you can just taunt those that run off.

Occasionally, if there is a dd that is annoyingly impatient i just let him die

Jeremy

maddiniiLuna wrote: »

Hello,

When i tank i try to make sure to be the first one to go in the enemy group and i'll snare them. Usually you have their attention after this and then you can just taunt those that run off.

Occasionally, if there is a dd that is annoyingly impatient i just let him die

That's what I do as well. I just wave them on while they run ahead to die. It adds some comic relief to the run.

One likely reason why a lot of newer tanks want this option is they come over to this game from other games (like WoW for example) where the tank is typically expected to hold aggro on everything and if the DD's get hit that means the tank isn't doing their job. So they probably feel as if they are failing at their job when other members of their party gets hit by adds.

xaraan

No, the game is fine without a group taunt.

The only thing needed is that zos needs to do better designs in dungeon combat. I have no problem going through and taunting adds as they spawn and trying to choose which ones are the most threatening to the team, but when they are all strong enough to one shot the DPS and all need to be instantly taunted and all spawn at the same time. That's bad design. MHK is a good example of that problem.

wild_kmacdb16_ESO

Jeremy wrote: »

maddiniiLuna wrote: »

Hello,

When i tank i try to make sure to be the first one to go in the enemy group and i'll snare them. Usually you have their attention after this and then you can just taunt those that run off.

Occasionally, if there is a dd that is annoyingly impatient i just let him die

That's what I do as well. I just wave them on while they run ahead to die. It adds some comic relief to the run.

One likely reason why a lot of newer tanks want this option is they come over to this game from other games (like WoW for example) where the tank is typically expected to hold aggro on everything and if the DD's get hit that means the tank isn't doing their job. So they probably feel as if they are failing at their job when other members of their party gets hit by adds.

Same here. I sometimes get DD that sprint ahead , I assume expecting everyone else to go at their pace. I just keep going at jogging pace so everyone can Regen their resources and if mr impatient dies, oh well.

But as for dealing with enemy groups, the strategy generally is.

Step 1: taunt elites
Step 2: pepper ranged enemies with a few ranged hits of your own. This is enough to usually hold their attention till they die.
Step 3: by now melee enemy are probably clustered together. CC them and DD should aoe them down

Even with that, people other than you are going to get hit and nobody should expect otherwise. Keeps it from being a total snore fest for healers at least.

Nestor

Chains is my group Taunt. I stand in place and pull all the stragglers to me.

Also, based on Aggro Mechanics, you can almost pull off a group Taunt. You just need the DDs to excercise some patience. As you approach the mobs, apply aggro to one or two of them, most of the rest will gang up on you. Then the DDs can drop some AoE while you chain the stragglers in.

Note, pick the Morph that refunds the cost if the chain was not succesful.

r3turn2s3nd3r

An AoE group taunt would be horrible in vet trials where each tank has their own add responsibilities. Imagine the add encounters in vMoL with an AoE taunt. Everything would be running around immune in 12 seconds. Yes, you could just use single taunt, but then doesn't that just make the case for not needing an AoE taunt?

gatekeeper13

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

Same here. I sometimes get DD that sprint ahead , I assume expecting everyone else to go at their pace. I just keep going at jogging pace so everyone can Regen their resources and if mr impatient dies, oh well.

When that happens in my group, I let them die. Plain and simple.

Hapexamendios

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

Same here. I sometimes get DD that sprint ahead , I assume expecting everyone else to go at their pace. I just keep going at jogging pace so everyone can Regen their resources and if mr impatient dies, oh well.

When that happens in my group, I let them die. Plain and simple.

First time they die doing it, ask them to not do it again. Second time is a kick vote.

IndianaJames7

If you are talking about mass aggro on a large groups of adds, I would recommend caltrops or blockade. Aoe skills will cause enemies to target you if you hit them first. You will not maintain aggro with this, but it should be enough for your dps to burn them down before they become an issue. From there you can proper taunt the enemies that require it.

AcadianPaladin

IndianaJames7 wrote: »

If you are talking about mass aggro on a large groups of adds, I would recommend caltrops or blockade. Aoe skills will cause enemies to target you if you hit them first. You will not maintain aggro with this, but it should be enough for your dps to burn them down before they become an issue. From there you can proper taunt the enemies that require it.

I agree and use Soul Splitting Trap for this with its 28m range and 8m radius AoE on hitting the target. Lets my tank soft aggro a whole group or even two groups while running into a room. Of course, that may be changed totally by the time the next patch goes live. . . .

rotaugen454

IndianaJames7 wrote: »

If you are talking about mass aggro on a large groups of adds, I would recommend caltrops or blockade. Aoe skills will cause enemies to target you if you hit them first. You will not maintain aggro with this, but it should be enough for your dps to burn them down before they become an issue. From there you can proper taunt the enemies that require it.

I just use the /kissthis emote.

Taleof2Cities

tigerborn62 wrote: »

"I need a group taunt, please. Thank you and god bless."

Translation:

“Give me the rewards without doing the work. Thank you and god bless.”

Linaleah

I want a better way to target enemies that just happens to be behind the group i already just gathered up and rooted, so that i could actualy reliably and quickly pull/taunt those mobs - if you are going to restrict me to single target taunt only. yes yes yes, i know some of you all are so amazing at this game that you manage to do this with a current system, but i still have trouble targeting the right mobs when there are others in a way and it could end up being a difference between my SO being able to just open up and dps and MY SO having to spam heals while i try to get control of the situation and those darn mobs off him.

just.. please make targeting more reliable, k thanks.

max_only

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Tanks are so happy with the status quo that they are lining up to get into dungeon queues. We're almost overrun with tanks since everything works so wonderfully for them. . . oh. . . wait.

Group taunt won’t make more tanks come back to the queue I can tell you that. It will make more fake tanks.

Zos is the reason why there are no tanks in queue.
1.“This enemy cannot be taunted”
2. This enemy CAN be taunted but is still programmed to jump around as if your taunt doesn’t matter.
3. “burn before one shot” mechanics (and the dds that can’t do the burn)
4. Lack of tank diversity and constant nerfs to build ingenuity

AcadianPaladin

max_only wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Tanks are so happy with the status quo that they are lining up to get into dungeon queues. We're almost overrun with tanks since everything works so wonderfully for them. . . oh. . . wait.

Group taunt won’t make more tanks come back to the queue I can tell you that. It will make more fake tanks.

Zos is the reason why there are no tanks in queue.
1.“This enemy cannot be taunted”
2. This enemy CAN be taunted but is still programmed to jump around as if your taunt doesn’t matter.
3. “burn before one shot” mechanics (and the dds that can’t do the burn)
4. Lack of tank diversity and constant nerfs to build ingenuity

I was joking - sort of. Seriously though, the ability to taunt through the mob you're already buried under would be handy. As someone above said, improved targeting.

You are spot on with your list also. My tank actually keeps notes on bosses who cannot be taunted and never does those dungeons again. Same with bosses who take taunt but randomly 'forget' it for a few moments to go smash a dd. I can think of few things that make a tank feel more worthless than being unable to do job #1 (reliably hold taunt on the boss) and simply refuse to subject my tank to that.

VaranisArano

Linaleah wrote: »

I want a better way to target enemies that just happens to be behind the group i already just gathered up and rooted, so that i could actualy reliably and quickly pull/taunt those mobs - if you are going to restrict me to single target taunt only. yes yes yes, i know some of you all are so amazing at this game that you manage to do this with a current system, but i still have trouble targeting the right mobs when there are others in a way and it could end up being a difference between my SO being able to just open up and dps and MY SO having to spam heals while i try to get control of the situation and those darn mobs off him.

just.. please make targeting more reliable, k thanks.

I don't if this will work for anyone but me, but I keep Inner Fire on my bar for this reason. I find it much easier to tag mobs in the background with the ranged taunt than to wade through the ones I already gathered up to hit them with Pierce Armor. I could also taunt priority targets from a distance. It was especially helpful on the Falkreath Hold minotaurs who tended to charge right past me if I waited to Pierce Armor them.

But yeah, targeting could use some improvements in general. However,I don't think its bad enough that we need an AOE taunt.

Linaleah

VaranisArano wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

I want a better way to target enemies that just happens to be behind the group i already just gathered up and rooted, so that i could actualy reliably and quickly pull/taunt those mobs - if you are going to restrict me to single target taunt only. yes yes yes, i know some of you all are so amazing at this game that you manage to do this with a current system, but i still have trouble targeting the right mobs when there are others in a way and it could end up being a difference between my SO being able to just open up and dps and MY SO having to spam heals while i try to get control of the situation and those darn mobs off him.

just.. please make targeting more reliable, k thanks.

I don't if this will work for anyone but me, but I keep Inner Fire on my bar for this reason. I find it much easier to tag mobs in the background with the ranged taunt than to wade through the ones I already gathered up to hit them with Pierce Armor. I could also taunt priority targets from a distance. It was especially helpful on the Falkreath Hold minotaurs who tended to charge right past me if I waited to Pierce Armor them.

But yeah, targeting could use some improvements in general. However,I don't think its bad enough that we need an AOE taunt.

I have trouble with targeting even with inner fire only way i can circumvent it is trying to grab them before I use my chains, but that results in its own issues, and when its more then 2 ranged mobs - pulling them in while taunting melee heavies and generally trying to keep clusters - clustered for AoE - starts turning into a mess, which would be MUCH less messy to manage with either AoE taunt, and/or seriously improved targeting.

I know I'm not amazing. i'm barely mediocre. but the thing is... more people then not - are also mediocre. and that is part of the reason we have so few tanks in a queue, because its stressful to manage with fairly minimal tanking tools we get, coupled with targeting issues and trigger happy dps.

iam117

i would like a dungeon wide taunt while we are at it, stragglers are annoying

VaranisArano

Linaleah wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

I want a better way to target enemies that just happens to be behind the group i already just gathered up and rooted, so that i could actualy reliably and quickly pull/taunt those mobs - if you are going to restrict me to single target taunt only. yes yes yes, i know some of you all are so amazing at this game that you manage to do this with a current system, but i still have trouble targeting the right mobs when there are others in a way and it could end up being a difference between my SO being able to just open up and dps and MY SO having to spam heals while i try to get control of the situation and those darn mobs off him.

just.. please make targeting more reliable, k thanks.

I don't if this will work for anyone but me, but I keep Inner Fire on my bar for this reason. I find it much easier to tag mobs in the background with the ranged taunt than to wade through the ones I already gathered up to hit them with Pierce Armor. I could also taunt priority targets from a distance. It was especially helpful on the Falkreath Hold minotaurs who tended to charge right past me if I waited to Pierce Armor them.

But yeah, targeting could use some improvements in general. However,I don't think its bad enough that we need an AOE taunt.

I have trouble with targeting even with inner fire only way i can circumvent it is trying to grab them before I use my chains, but that results in its own issues, and when its more then 2 ranged mobs - pulling them in while taunting melee heavies and generally trying to keep clusters - clustered for AoE - starts turning into a mess, which would be MUCH less messy to manage with either AoE taunt, and/or seriously improved targeting.

I know I'm not amazing. i'm barely mediocre. but the thing is... more people then not - are also mediocre. and that is part of the reason we have so few tanks in a queue, because its stressful to manage with fairly minimal tanking tools we get, coupled with targeting issues and trigger happy dps.

In my experience, the low numbers of tanks is a multi-faceted problem.

First, most players would rather not play tanks.
Maybe they'd rather heal or DD. Most players prefer to DPS.
Maybe they don't want the perceived pressure of controlling the fight and knowing mechanics. After all, failing as tank is pretty obvious.
Maybe they don't like how tanking works in ESO (requests for AOE taunts fall in this category).

But we also have low numbers of players who like tanking playing tanks in Groupfinder.
Generally, that's because a good tank has little incentive to group with random players when they can recruit a group with high DPS or from guildies. Good tanks just don't have a good reason to subject themselves to low DPS groups or inexperienced players in Groupfinder dungeons.

So its a problem with a lot of causes.

And I don't think an AOE taunt is a good solution, even for the segment of players who don't like how tanking works in ESO.

For one, its hugely simplifying the role of tank. As mentioned above, fights become a matter of taunt + hold block. It eliminates all need for crowd control, positioning, and priority targets. Just taunt and hold block until the DDs burn everything down.

It simplifies group roles and makes them more boring. With an AOE taunt, DDs and Healers never have to worry about danger from adds unless there's an AOE attack. The Healer's sole job is to keep the tank alive under the onslaught of taunted mobs.

Its also hugely simplifying dungeon design. All fights become simple "press one button to stack 'n burn" affairs. As if we needed base game dungeons to get easier. An AOE taunt trivializes the current dungeon content.

Finally, adding an AOE taunt AND addressing all the above problems would require a serious rework of dungeon design in every single group dungeon to keep group roles interesting and prevent the trivialization of fights. Given that ZOS hasnt done a substantial rework of old content since One Tamriel, its very unlikely that they would redo all PVE group content to account for such a dramatic reversal of their design philosophy.

bmnoble

Depending on the range it has it would probably take the spot of chains and silver leash on my tanks.

I would not mind the option, but I can't really think of too many dungeons where the size of the mobs of enemies is really big enough for me to need an AOE taunt and it trials that require more than one tank might cause over taunting defeating the purpose.

Would make mob farming and leather farming fun on my tank though, just put on the Grothdar monster set, Leeching plate, Thunderbug and let everything kill themselves attacking me, while I walk along taunting more stuff