A mini lore rant on chapters

NoodleESO

I just wanted to point out that the chapter story lines are getting out of control, and how many times are you gonna sing us the same song?

Base Game: Molag Bal invasion "This could mean the end of the world!"
Morrowind: Daedric princes try to steal Tribunal power and a mini invasion "This could mean the end of the world!"
Summerset: Nocturnal invasion, Sload invasion "This could mean the end of the world!"
Elsweyr: A super dragon named Kaalgrontiid has ascended to GODHOOD and has an army of dragons "This could mean the end of the world!"

And all the information about this time was just never written down? People of Tamriel lost it and forgot about it? (Lore wise)

I really don't think this is a sustainable theme for chapters anymore (the whole end of the world thing) Why don't we have alliance quest lines and war stories? As a pvper I'd definitely get more attached to characters on the same alliance as me. And I hate to point it out for the millionth time but its also what the game was based off of in the first place, I have no idea how we went from alliance war to super dragons.

Deep_01

Agree. Would love to do a story that does not involve world domination or betrayal.

Something like convincing several cities in a map to coordinate with each other, by doing quests with irreversible choices. City 1 has to build a channel to city 3 and city 2 needs to get serious or be linent on its justice system. In the final quest you'd lead them against a invading force. Depending on allies (npcs) you have put together, you will either liberate the cities or the people would forever stay oppressed by the invading forces government. In the end, you see a cities shaped differently for each character.

Faulgor

Just thought about this, how much I miss small scale stories like Wrothgar. Self-contained in the zone, local in scope and drama, allowing for a closer and deeper look at the culture. It's no coincidence that Orsinium, TG, DB and Murkmire are my favourite DLCs.
And the year-long story theme makes it impossible we'll see another Murkmire in Q4, which kind of sucks. There's just hoping that the next chapter scales things back.

NolaArch

Orsinium was such a great DLC for so many reasons. The story was great and I loved that it was so localized to the zone.

Edit: Meant to quote Faulgor here.

barney2525

NoodleESO wrote: »

I just wanted to point out that the chapter story lines are getting out of control, and how many times are you gonna sing us the same song?

Base Game: Molag Bal invasion "This could mean the end of the world!"
Morrowind: Daedric princes try to steal Tribunal power and a mini invasion "This could mean the end of the world!"
Summerset: Nocturnal invasion, Sload invasion "This could mean the end of the world!"
Elsweyr: A super dragon named Kaalgrontiid has ascended to GODHOOD and has an army of dragons "This could mean the end of the world!"

And all the information about this time was just never written down? People of Tamriel lost it and forgot about it? (Lore wise)

I really don't think this is a sustainable theme for chapters anymore (the whole end of the world thing) Why don't we have alliance quest lines and war stories? As a pvper I'd definitely get more attached to characters on the same alliance as me. And I hate to point it out for the millionth time but its also what the game was based off of in the first place, I have no idea how we went from alliance war to super dragons.

Every hero/super hero story has to have end-of-the-world consequences, or else its not heroic. "I killed the mouse that was getting into the trash" just doesn't cut it as something your Heroic character should be bragging about.

And your Character IS supposed to be the Hero/Heroine in this Epic story.

Why would anyone complain about an epic story that has dire and far reaching consequences should you fail?

If you want to play Pong, go play Pong.

IMHO

NoodleESO

barney2525 wrote: »

NoodleESO wrote: »

I just wanted to point out that the chapter story lines are getting out of control, and how many times are you gonna sing us the same song?

Base Game: Molag Bal invasion "This could mean the end of the world!"
Morrowind: Daedric princes try to steal Tribunal power and a mini invasion "This could mean the end of the world!"
Summerset: Nocturnal invasion, Sload invasion "This could mean the end of the world!"
Elsweyr: A super dragon named Kaalgrontiid has ascended to GODHOOD and has an army of dragons "This could mean the end of the world!"

And all the information about this time was just never written down? People of Tamriel lost it and forgot about it? (Lore wise)

I really don't think this is a sustainable theme for chapters anymore (the whole end of the world thing) Why don't we have alliance quest lines and war stories? As a pvper I'd definitely get more attached to characters on the same alliance as me. And I hate to point it out for the millionth time but its also what the game was based off of in the first place, I have no idea how we went from alliance war to super dragons.

Every hero/super hero story has to have end-of-the-world consequences, or else its not heroic. "I killed the mouse that was getting into the trash" just doesn't cut it as something your Heroic character should be bragging about.

And your Character IS supposed to be the Hero/Heroine in this Epic story.

Why would anyone complain about an epic story that has dire and far reaching consequences should you fail?

If you want to play Pong, go play Pong.

IMHO

You make a good point although, at this point in ESO, how can you call your own character a hero? Most of the time you will be assisted by someone highly overpowered (Abnur), a Demi god/god, or alliance leader. Its almost like you're having your hand held and just following the quest marker.

so no it may not be "I killed a mouse" but its definitely "I killed it by clicking my mouse"
Thats hardly heroic

Milking a subject will just devalue it even more. A good example is in Elsweyr (no spoilers here) when Cadwell says "look after Honor for me he's a good steed" (You know the part) My god did I cry like a baby. A Hero must be capable of making tough decisions, and dealing with hardships/sacrifices, not just the savior. But then they (ZOS) undo any meaning full action.

edit: added (ZOS) in last sentence for clarity

Artim_X

When clearing a dolmen Molag Bal will sometimes say "I will ensure no tales are told of your valor." In my headcanon after clearing every adventure on the map I wouldn't put it past Molag Bal to join forces with some of the other princes/significant enemies that I have defeated in order to get the last laugh by making it so that literally no one remembers me.

"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."

To each their own though. As mentioned above a more grounded story like Orsinium would also be nice as well.

VaranisArano

Oh, and did we mention that this all takes place in the course of A Single YEAR?

Worst Year Ever.

vilio11

Agree. I do not have problem with deadcric plots and etc. but I want more down to earth politics in the chapters. Summerset was not about the Island of Alinor. It was about the Nocturnal invasion and the Psijic order.Orsinium dlc is the best DLC and was about the politics in Wrothgar.

Shawn_PT

Thieves Guild didn't have any end of the world scenario. Still a valid story.

Dark Brotherhood didn't have any end of the world scenario. Still a valid story.


I too would like to see some story that didn't have kings/archmages/insert-important-and-powerful-figures sitting on their a$$es crying about some cataclysm that the player goes and solves with little more than light attacks.

Varana

To be honest, welcome to most fantasy stories ever. Especially in video games.
But yes, a bit more local would be nice again.

Ratzkifal

"The world is always in doomed". It's a trope and honestly bad writing if you ask me unless you are going for cosmic horror.

ZOS is just scared that people will be disappointed by the next chapter if it's anything less than the end of the world because "impact is lower". They also treat chapters like relaunches of the game, so they gotta try and draw in the new players with something big.

Give us one good character driven story that has us invested in the likeable actors and then put them in danger as the stakes. You bet your ass that we will be 100 times more invested if "best girl" or "best boi" is in direct peril and not just peril by extension. And don't forget to let your stories have lasting impact on your characters, otherwise the danger won't be believable anymore.

Lyserus

They could have done it in Muirkmire but noooo something must be doomed

duuude9192b14_ESO

Agreed. Sure makes ya wonder why there was a change of guard with the Loremaster.

ArchMikem

VaranisArano wrote: »

Oh, and did we mention that this all takes place in the course of A Single YEAR?

Worst Year Ever.

As a player I'm choosing to ignore that and believe time is passing in-game. UESP actually has a clock using the in-game time based off how long a full day night cycle takes. It says the in-game year is the 2nd Era, 604 now. It's been like 20 years lol. Apparently from what I can tell, every real world second is 4 seconds in-game.

https://esoclock.uesp.net/

darkblue5

In world answer:
So much of the past IRL is lost esp. in chaotic wartorn times. So much of ESO history in Dragonbreaks is missing or lost. As none of your ES characters in the original series are given access to academic libraries, archives, or training in theory it could just be that your character never had the chance to learn it. Could have easily not been part of the pop history in vogue at the time.

As far as dragons go the answer is pretty clear. Yet another character out of many in the base game wanted a weapon to win/end the war in Cyrodiil. So that's actually pretty easy.

Out of RP answer:
The other games were made before ESO lore was getting specific. So while broad stuff like the 2nd Dominion existing roughly around this time may have been known... well... yes this is the complication of working with any long running franchise. (That said in 2248 when ES6 finally comes out I bet they'll include nods to ESO's additions to the lore.)

Also Dragons = $$$ which ZOS needs to repay investors, make profit, and thereby keep the shareholders happy.

MLGProPlayer

I'd love a story with some earthly political intrigue.

vilio11

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I'd love a story with some earthly political intrigue.

I good story can mix earthly political intrigue and deadric plots.

Grianasteri

NoodleESO wrote: »

I just wanted to point out that the chapter story lines are getting out of control, and how many times are you gonna sing us the same song?

Base Game: Molag Bal invasion "This could mean the end of the world!"
Morrowind: Daedric princes try to steal Tribunal power and a mini invasion "This could mean the end of the world!"
Summerset: Nocturnal invasion, Sload invasion "This could mean the end of the world!"
Elsweyr: A super dragon named Kaalgrontiid has ascended to GODHOOD and has an army of dragons "This could mean the end of the world!"

And all the information about this time was just never written down? People of Tamriel lost it and forgot about it? (Lore wise)

I really don't think this is a sustainable theme for chapters anymore (the whole end of the world thing) Why don't we have alliance quest lines and war stories? As a pvper I'd definitely get more attached to characters on the same alliance as me. And I hate to point it out for the millionth time but its also what the game was based off of in the first place, I have no idea how we went from alliance war to super dragons.

My favourite additional content was Summerset, followed by Orsinium and then Vvardenfell (for the nostalgia mainly, not the story).

Really didnt think much of Mirkmire, although the world bosses are good fun, the story didnt do it for me.

I have only just started playing Elsweyr story (last night!), not because it interests me particularly, but because I want Alfiq for a new character I am making and so I decided to take an OLD character Ive not played in over 2 years, a Khajit, in to farm it and I thought hey, I'll do the story. So far so good, its interesting. I do like the addition of Wyverns, its nice to see ZOS add new stuff like that.

I very much agree, I would like to see some self contained story/lore for new areas.

Although while I am on my soap box, what I want more than more "story" area, is a new Cyrodiil and a new Craglorn.

Nova Sky

Let's do a global climate change chapter! That'll sell like hotcakes!

idk

Save the world theme getting out of hand? Is OP serious or just trying to stir controversy. Pretty much every MMORPG I have played the character is the hereo. Often saving the world/universe/galaxy or some part of it from certain anialation.

I find it odd that OP is complaining about something that sells but does not even bother to offer a suggestion. Maybe they want a story line where we plant flowers around a zone.

Getting out of hand. lol

Elsonso

Elder Scrolls does seem to tell stories at the time the world is ending. Or, at least the local part of it. Dagoth Ur, Mehrunes Dagon, Alduin, Molag Bal... no one seems to want to leave poor Tamriel alone.

It is a problem wider then just Elder Scrolls. I think most players won't get out of bed for anything less than the end of the world, these days. Besides, when saving the world, few notice that the story is very thin.

SeanBlader

No one came to mention Rivenspire. It doesn't mean the end of the world, just a separation of the region from the Covenant, and it's story has some smaller scale consequences on the side.

VaranisArano

SeanBlader wrote: »

No one came to mention Rivenspire. It doesn't mean the end of the world, just a separation of the region from the Covenant, and it's story has some smaller scale consequences on the side.

I feel like I played a different Rivenspire. Mine had a bloodfiend plague decimating the region and required taking down the Doomcrag so it didnt happen again. Not exactly an "end of the world" scenario perhaps, but certainly a regional catastrophe along the same lines of the Maomer at Khenarthi's Roost or the Brothers of Strife in Stonefalls.

Much of the base game regions had smaller scale, more politically oriented or invasion oriented storylines, as befits three nations at war. However, the overarching storyline of the base game is definitely the Planemeld, the "end of the world" scenario (which totally isnt a ripoff of TES IV Oblivion, we swear).

So its not that ESO doesn't do smaller stories well. Its just that of the actual Chapters, all 3 of them have built up to end of the world scenarios. Compare even the mildest of them -Morrowind - to Orsinium where the stakes in the end are purely political (and personal. Oh, I wanted revenge on the villain.) Orsinium is a different scope of story and no less well done for not having the whole region/world threatened with destruction if we fail.

(Side note: Orsinium is sort of the shining example of how to release a content-packed DLC. I'm sure ZOS' marketing department is still kicking themselves for not making it the first Chapter.)

In the end, I think this amounts to "Variety in the spice of life." I really liked Summerset, but the "we have to stop the end of the world" plot line gets overplayed rather quickly when its see multiple times in quick succession.

Varana

At least with Summerset, they tied the story to some of the other storylines, so the new death threat of doom was not completely new and unheard-of - you just prevented the end of the world in several stages.
The dragons are different in that regard.

NoodleESO

Nova Sky wrote: »

Let's do a global climate change chapter! That'll sell like hotcakes!

The Kamal invasion already happened lol

grizzledcroc

I mean its not like you get these small stories as side quests in most these cases. Main quest needs to be grand in general

NoodleESO

idk wrote: »

Save the world theme getting out of hand? Is OP serious or just trying to stir controversy. Pretty much every MMORPG I have played the character is the hereo. Often saving the world/universe/galaxy or some part of it from certain anialation.

I find it odd that OP is complaining about something that sells but does not even bother to offer a suggestion. Maybe they want a story line where we plant flowers around a zone.

Getting out of hand. lol

I thought I suggested war stories/ alliance drive quest, @Deep_01 made a really good comment on what they can do, I think it sounds awesome.

But if you want some examples,
-Lord of the Rings: The Race of man vs Sauron
-The Hobbit: Dwarves reclaim their home
-Star Wars: Light vs Dark
-Spartans 300: Battle of Thermopylae
-Saving Private Ryan- (the title)
-Troy: (the film and the story)
-Braveheart: FREEDOMMM
-Gladiator: you get the idea

These stories have excellent hero archetypes in them and not once is the world/universe/galaxy ending.

Hallothiel

Is heretical to admit that on reflection, and playing through it again, I don’t think Orsinium is as fabulous a everyone else 😬

Varana

NoodleESO wrote: »

-Lord of the Rings: The Race of man vs Sauron

...

These stories have excellent hero archetypes in them and not once is the world/universe/galaxy ending.

Sorry, but LotR is one of the prime examples of these "grand" stories where the world as we know it hangs in the balance.
I mean, technically, solid ground would probably continue to be there if Sauron had won, but in terms of narrative and from the view of the characters, it's played pretty straight as a "the apocalypse is coming" type of story. Else, the ESO stories probably wouldn't count either - sure, Molag Bal wants to merge Nirn and Coldharbour, but Coldharbour seems quite real, and not too different from a "Mordor everywhere" scenario.

Royaji

Hallothiel wrote: »

Is heretical to admit that on reflection, and playing through it again, I don’t think Orsinium is as fabulous a everyone else 😬

I agree. 5/10, too much orc.