Age Verification

StormeReigns

Thicclady wrote: »

I thought to ask what is your opinion on this matter. ESO is +18years old game according to ToS (with some exceptions). Now obviously theres lot of younger kids from 6-17.

How about a age verification to game somehow? Its very annoying to play with children at least for me, when I try to be in mature game.

Translation: I'm trying to be a responsible guy in real life and not be a surprise guest on "To catch a Predator."

Hapexamendios

Don’t listen to area chat. Rarely encounter kids. A couple I have met in pug groups have been OK. Not a big deal to me.

fgoron2000

Reminds me of Leisure Suit Larry, that had a few questions at the beginning of the game that would then establish the level of the "adult" content you could access during the game...aaah, those were the days

FakeFox

ESO is a god damn nursing home.

But for real, ESO doesn't feature anything that warrants a 18+ age restriction. In Germany it's rated USK 16. And no matter what age restriction and verification, parents can always decide to let their children play it anyway.

Xedwyn

A stronger verification system would require using (having access to data from) nothing short of mass surveillance tools and systems in order to be implemented, something that surely cannot be accomplished by one media company alone even if they intended on pursuing such a goal. Considering the international nature of MMOs, such an endeavor would involve legal geopolitical matters as well, making the idea itself not even worth considering from a basic feasibility perspective.

You shouldn't mind kids much: find some friends to play with that are mature enough for your own standards and enjoy the game.

my 2¢

tyggerbob

My daughter, who is 16, is a good dps, an excellent raid leader, and a Guild officer and solid member.. She had the full respect of our guild, which mostly consists of adults. Which the odd exception of having to curtail sexual discussion in voice chat and post their NSFW stuff in the right channel, this affects us in no way. There have been no complaints at all about her presence.

The Terms of service state:

"By purchasing, accessing, receiving or using any Services, You affirm that (i) You are at least 18 years of age (or have reached the age of majority if that is not 18 years of age where You live) OR You have reviewed these Terms of Service with Your parent or guardian and he or she assents to these Terms of Service on Your behalf and takes full responsibility for Your compliance with them"

She and I have done that. She knows the rules, knows how to act in game if she wants to keep playing.

If anything this is a 'learn to parent' issue, in my mind. If you teach your kids how to act in life and online, then you won't have issues in situations like this.

Just my $0.02

Tyg

Danikat

FakeFox wrote: »

ESO is a god damn nursing home.

But for real, ESO doesn't feature anything that warrants a 18+ age restriction. In Germany it's rated USK 16. And no matter what age restriction and verification, parents can always decide to let their children play it anyway.

PEGI rated it 18+ purely because of the Justice system, specifically "depictions of motiveless killing of innocents and violence towards vulnerable or defenceless human-like characters". Before that it was 16+. ESRB, the American ratings system also mentions 'sexual themes' and use of alcohol, which I guess are a bigger concern over there than in Europe.

This is part of the reason there's different ratings systems around the world, something can be a big deal in one place and irrelevant somewhere else. China for example is very strict about depictions of human skeletons, especially used as decoration, so just putting skull symbols on things can raise the age rating of a game.

Delparis

Age verification was set to protect ZoS against any legal issues

Grianasteri

It is frustrating, particularly when entering pugs, to be met with childish temper tantrums and the complete absence of ability to hold reasoned conversations.

I have no answers though.

Latest example, a childish tonk who was literaelly not tonking, failing to keep aggro and blaming the rest of the team for getting killed by boss mechs that he should have been preventing. I helpfully try to point out that he is losing aggro... then receive a wall of abuse.

Its a shame.

Inaya

tyggerbob wrote: »

My daughter, who is 16, is a good dps, an excellent raid leader, and a Guild officer and solid member.. She had the full respect of our guild, which mostly consists of adults. Which the odd exception of having to curtail sexual discussion in voice chat and post their NSFW stuff in the right channel, this affects us in no way. There have been no complaints at all about her presence.

The Terms of service state:

"By purchasing, accessing, receiving or using any Services, You affirm that (i) You are at least 18 years of age (or have reached the age of majority if that is not 18 years of age where You live) OR You have reviewed these Terms of Service with Your parent or guardian and he or she assents to these Terms of Service on Your behalf and takes full responsibility for Your compliance with them"

She and I have done that. She knows the rules, knows how to act in game if she wants to keep playing.

If anything this is a 'learn to parent' issue, in my mind. If you teach your kids how to act in life and online, then you won't have issues in situations like this.

Just my $0.02

Tyg

I agree with everything you said except one. Maybe your guild doesn't mind but I think requiring adults to curtail their voice chat to accomodate a 16 year old is wrong. If anything the child should move to another voice channel.

Tandor

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Aaaannnnd, absolutely no one has ever lied about their age?

Ever? Right?

I never have. Why would I? When I was younger, it didn't arise (yeah, I was a literal "good kid" - even a "goodie two shoes" - outside of getting pregnant before the wedding). And now that I'm really old, why does it matter? I'm perfectly happy to tell anyone how old I am, and always have been.

Agreed.

Except that there are good security reasons for not giving your actual birth date when registering for anything on the internet. Plus, when I access the ESO website for example and have to give my birthdate to pass the age verification check it's easier and quicker just to nudge the counters up one and hit the "submit" button!

Nestor

Since when does Chronological Age have anything to do with Maturity?

Thicclady

Royaji wrote: »

Here is something straight from ESRB.

ESRB ratings provide information about what’s in a game or app so parents and consumers can make informed choices about which games are right for their family.

Ratings are not laws. They are guidelines.

Im not talking about ratings, but ESO Terms of Service

furiouslog

I let my teens play the game, but I don't let them do the Dark Brotherhood content. I did those quest lines and I personally found the assassination animations disturbing (and cool), in addition to the premise of killing innocents for gold (yes I know you can disable the animations).

Not to get on a tangent, but I did the DB quest line, and it permanently broke immersion for me because my toon became a mechanical abstraction rather than a hero in a story, because it's difficult to resolve how a person would go on a protracted journey beneficially saving people from their various problems, and then suddenly become inspired to start killing people at random to satisfy the requirements for inclusion in a death cult. I blame the implementation and writing for that content on breaking that immersion. It could have been a more conditionally-based and nuanced exploration of the morality of killing and meaning of death (and I think that they tried), but it was just a turf war wrapped in a morally ambiguous revenge story with some blood *** thrown in. All other killing in the game generally has some good vs evil feel to it. This is also why I don't really want them doing that content until they are more mature.

I've had multiple teaching moments with my kids over some of the content in the game. There are some difficult decisions presented in many quests, and those have been great opportunities to deconstruct those situations. It's created opportunities to explore issues with my kids that I might not have otherwise been able. It's also fostered some important and foundational discussions about how games are not real life.

Anyway, I always thought that the real reason for the M rating in the US was zone chat, which if true is an irony because it's more likely to be the younger players that are providing inappropriate chat content.

Royaji

Thicclady wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Here is something straight from ESRB.

ESRB ratings provide information about what’s in a game or app so parents and consumers can make informed choices about which games are right for their family.

Ratings are not laws. They are guidelines.

Im not talking about ratings, but ESO Terms of Service

All credit for that one goes to smacx250

smacx250 wrote: »

... You affirm that (i) You are at least 18 years of age (or have reached the age of majority if that is not 18 years of age where You live) OR You have reviewed these Terms of Service with Your parent or guardian and he or she assents to these Terms of Service on Your behalf and takes full responsibility for Your compliance with them ...

So my point still stands. Nothing explicitly prohibits children from playing ESO.

typo

redlink1979

@Thicclady Not really easy to implement an age verification in-game.

If parents allow their underage son/daughter to have access to +18 rated content, then responsibility is all theirs.

Danikat

furiouslog wrote: »

Not to get on a tangent, but I did the DB quest line, and it permanently broke immersion for me because my toon became a mechanical abstraction rather than a hero in a story, because it's difficult to resolve how a person would go on a protracted journey beneficially saving people from their various problems, and then suddenly become inspired to start killing people at random to satisfy the requirements for inclusion in a death cult. I blame the implementation and writing for that content on breaking that immersion. It could have been a more conditionally-based and nuanced exploration of the morality of killing and meaning of death (and I think that they tried), but it was just a turf war wrapped in a morally ambiguous revenge story with some blood *** thrown in. All other killing in the game generally has some good vs evil feel to it. This is also why I don't really want them doing that content until they are more mature.

I don't think the Dark Brotherhood questline is supposed to work for characters who are always the hero who does the right thing. Like joining the DB in other TES games, stealing, becoming a vampire, or some of the choices offered in quests it's there for the kind of character who would do that because they don't always do what's right. I like having options like that in games because it gives you more scope to decide what kind of person your character is. (Including by choosing not to do those things.)

I've got one who joined the DB and is doing the Alliance quests and the main story. He's my designated evil character who makes choices my other characters wouldn't do (including becoming an assassin and a vampire). To fit with that he's extremely impulsive and takes whatever oppertunities come along, good or bad, without thinking about the consequences. He doesn't care about saving the world, he was just taking advantage of a series of oppertunities which happened to lead in that direction.

I've also got an idea for a narcisistic altmer necromancer who wants power at any cost - she'd join the Dark Brotherhood because they can give her knowledge and magic she doesn't have and the potential for authority within the guild, and she'd save the world because it would give her fame, respect and power over various groups of people. But I haven't actually made her because I'm not sure how much her personality would come through in the game and without that she's just another questing character, and because I don't actually like playing evil characters so I'm not sure I'd play her much.

(I also have my crafter who really could not care less about being a hero but still did the main story because he isn't going to let anyone, even a daedric prince, take his soul and get away with it. Also I wanted the skill points.)

And like you I find it interesting to consider how I feel about playing an evil character in a game. I'm not sure what it says about me that I don't like doing a lot of that stuff but will do it for the sake of completion, but it's certainly something to think about.

tyggerbob

Inaya wrote: »

tyggerbob wrote: »

What I said before..

Tyg

I agree with everything you said except one. Maybe your guild doesn't mind but I think requiring adults to curtail their voice chat to accommodate a 16 year old is wrong. If anything the child should move to another voice channel.

It's not a 'required' thing.. it's a 'no need to be overly crude' thing. They guild would rather be considerate of her and share her company than have her excluded from activities. The language is there once in a while, even by her, and no one gets admonished for it.. She hears a lot worse at school, I'm sure.

MJallday

Is the answer any harder than “put a credit card number in to sign up”

Kuramas9tails

ESO's community equivalent to

"Get off my lawn!"

Elsonso

Tandor wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Aaaannnnd, absolutely no one has ever lied about their age?

Ever? Right?

I never have. Why would I? When I was younger, it didn't arise (yeah, I was a literal "good kid" - even a "goodie two shoes" - outside of getting pregnant before the wedding). And now that I'm really old, why does it matter? I'm perfectly happy to tell anyone how old I am, and always have been.

Agreed.

Except that there are good security reasons for not giving your actual birth date when registering for anything on the internet. Plus, when I access the ESO website for example and have to give my birthdate to pass the age verification check it's easier and quicker just to nudge the counters up one and hit the "submit" button!

Wait... we have the same birthday?! What are the odds...

ATreeGnome

Thicclady wrote: »

I thought to ask what is your opinion on this matter. ESO is +18years old game according to ToS (with some exceptions). Now obviously theres lot of younger kids from 6-17. How about a age verification to game somehow? Its very annoying to play with children at least for me, when I try to be in mature game.

You're effectively asking for a group of players who have not violated any laws or the ToS to be banned because they mildly annoy you. That's a you problem. If you don't like playing with people under 18 then it's on you to not do it. Don't try to ruin the game for them.

JamieAubrey

How do you tell if you're playing with a 6yo ? Not like they advertise it

Nestor

lordrichter wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Aaaannnnd, absolutely no one has ever lied about their age?

Ever? Right?

I never have. Why would I? When I was younger, it didn't arise (yeah, I was a literal "good kid" - even a "goodie two shoes" - outside of getting pregnant before the wedding). And now that I'm really old, why does it matter? I'm perfectly happy to tell anyone how old I am, and always have been.

Agreed.

Except that there are good security reasons for not giving your actual birth date when registering for anything on the internet. Plus, when I access the ESO website for example and have to give my birthdate to pass the age verification check it's easier and quicker just to nudge the counters up one and hit the "submit" button!

Wait... we have the same birthday?! What are the odds...

About 1 in 30 most months...

Thicclady

Nestor wrote: »

Since when does Chronological Age have anything to do with Maturity?

Lets face it: kids/teens is THINK they real mature, but reality is often different. Im not sure what, but something should be done. Its not even good for like 6 years olds to play "scary" games in general, and game on computers anyway much.

Royaji

Thicclady wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Since when does Chronological Age have anything to do with Maturity?

Lets face it: kids/teens is THINK they real mature, but reality is often different. Im not sure what, but something should be done. Its not even good for like 6 years olds to play "scary" games in general, and game on computers anyway much.

Sure thing, grandma.

StormeReigns

Thicclady wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Since when does Chronological Age have anything to do with Maturity?

Lets face it: kids/teens is THINK they('re) real mature, but reality is often different. Im not sure what, but something should be done. Its not even good for like 6 years olds to play "scary" games in general, and game on computers anyway much.

ESO scary? ESO a Scary Game? Kingdom Hearts Series (Which is aimed at children and teens) has more adult themes and scarier aspects to it than ESO does...

Even long before the ESRB was implemented due to a crappy Sega CD game called Night Trap - most common kids games were much scarier than what is being presented in the last 15 years to even today.

Let's face it, the fact that you are going out of your way to try to dictate by your own personal bias what is mature and who is really mature, only shows that you are probably not mentally mature enough and most likely too socially inept for any type of community activity.

I know assuming isn't wise, but I am willing to place a lot on the line an the "maturity" you are seeking while in a video game relates towards probably not one of, but many forms of sexual deviant actions. Probably a combination of cybering, erp, and plausible "hook ups" in your area. While in your lust set mind, you and someone grouped up, with out hesitation, you instantly flashed out all your deviations of filth saying and trying to emote some pretty raunchy and filthy things.

Probably discovered that they are a minor recently and now trying playing the victim cause you failed to have the maturity and mental comprehension to realize that you are no better than most if not all online child predators and not trying to find something to blame to feel better about yourself for. So, in the end, you get what you deserve.

Aurie

Time for @ZOS to close this thread down after the last post.

Thicclady

SkerKro wrote: »

Thicclady wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Since when does Chronological Age have anything to do with Maturity?

Lets face it: kids/teens is THINK they('re) real mature, but reality is often different. Im not sure what, but something should be done. Its not even good for like 6 years olds to play "scary" games in general, and game on computers anyway much.

Probably discovered that they are a minor recently and now trying playing the victim cause you failed to have the maturity and mental comprehension to realize that you are no better than most if not all online child predators and not trying to find something to blame to feel better about yourself for. So, in the end, you get what you deserve.

You just compared me to online child predator, because I think kids can be annoying...Are you maybe a victim of one, because I have no idea where you came up with that.

FrancisCrawford

According to ESO's age verification, I'm 119 years old.