Dedicated healer build for largescale, please advise

Major_Lag

Today I went into Cyro to grind for (more) geodes, this time with my magplar.
He was still wearing a hybrid healer/DPS build for PvE - I didn't feel like digging out my old PvP healing gear for this, in part because I'm lazy and simply could not be bothered.

Aside from a few deaths - which could be directly attributed to a lack of Impen gear and PvP mobility skills (such as RAT) - it went quite well, and it reminded me of how PvP can still be fun, even despite all the nerfs being hurled around every update

So at this point, I'm seriously considering putting together a proper largescale healer/support build for Cyro.
For reference, my "old" build was Transmutation + Julianos + mismatched monster sets (because I did not have Engine Guardian at the time yet). 5H+1M+1L. SnB backbar.
That was quite a mediocre combination: survivability was decent enough, but sustain was rather poor.

To clarify: we're talking about CP PvP here, largescale gameplay - groups smaller than 12 need not apply

I've bolded what I consider to be points of contention below; by all means please comment on those.

Class:
I'm considering either Templar or Sorc for this.
The latter both because my main is a Sorc, and also because of their excellent mobility. Additionally, in my experience, the Sorc execute works quite well in this kind of application. Templar execute is OK, but it's too easy to break the beam with LoS at range.

Race:
My main (Sorc) and my Templar are both Argonian, so not much of a choice there. Can't be bothered to roll a new character just for this purpose only to be able to use a BiS race.

Sets:
5L+1M+1H, most likely.
Transmutation set is a given - this is non-negotiable, it's easily the best PvP healing set.
I was thinking about using SPC as the 2nd 5pc set - haven't tried it in PvP yet, so not sure how well it would work in practice.
Seducer would be another possible option; this would also allow using 5H+1M+1L if needed.
For monster set I'd preferably use Engine Guardian. Troll King would be another decent option, but I don't have it yet, and it would be quite a significant hit to sustain when using TK instead of EG.

Backbar:
On my old build I used SnB, but that wasn't really worth the hassle and caused more problems than it solved.
Instead, I was thinking of using either a lightning or an ice staff on backbar.
Lightning staff is better for XvX, but ice is more defensive and lets me block with magicka; not sure how I feel about blocking with magicka though.
There's also the question of what set to use on backbar. Backbarring Transmutation is kinda pointless, it doesn't accomplish anything useful.

Healing/support skills:
Illustrious and Radiating are a no-brainer. Siege Shield is yet another must-have skill.
Orb is quite decent actually (when used correctly), good AoE heal + synergy.
Combat prayer? Sounds good on paper, but I didn't find it terribly useful in practice; it works well in trials but not so well in open world Cyro PvP. Maybe I was not utilizing it correctly?
Time Stop (Borrowed Time)? I tried using it earlier, it works very well when it does work at all. Unfortunately, it seems that nearly everyone has snare and/or CC immunity nowadays, so most of the time it just wastes a lot of magicka with no useful effect to show for it.
(Sorc) Power Surge or Crit Surge? The former is a lot easier to proc on a healer, and also heals allies.
(Sorc) Matriarch? Good burst heal, heals 1 or 2 allies, gives some free damage mitigation (LoS). 2 skill slots is a pretty steep price to pay for that, though.

Buff/mobility skills:
Boundless+Streak/BoL+Dark Deal on a Sorc, RAT+Focus+RoR on a Templar. This is another no-brainer.
Major Sorcery from Surge on a Sorc, or Degen on a Templar.

Ultimates:
On a Sorc, Negate (damage morph) is too good to pass up. On a Templar, Remembrance (or the other morph).
Temporal Guard on healing bar for the free Minor Protection?

Iskiab

I assume you mean large scale pugs? If that’s the case I’d definitely wear sets that are overall good in a lot of situations rather than anything specialized.

You should also use sets based on your class so different sets depending on whether you go templar or Sorc, they have different needs.

For Templar I think Transmutation, Buffer of the Swift and engine guardian would be a good combination. Asylum resto is a good idea.

For sorc Transmutation, Shalk Exoskeleton and Troll King/Nightflame/Bloodspawn is good.

For Templar sustain is moreso an issue along with escape. For sorc output is more of an issue but sustain is not, just use dark deal. For sorc pump out negates, for Templar pump out barriers. For sorc, because sustain isn’t much of an issue it’s a good idea to use purge a lot.

Hope that helps, hope you’re AD. If you aren’t forget everything I said... healing springs is where it’s at.

Major_Lag

Yeah, largescale pugs.
Maybe I'll go back to running with a guild again if I feel like it - but AFAIK we don't have any proper ballgroup guilds in our campaign, so it would be only a step or 2 above a random PUG.

Mobility does indeed suck on the magplar, I didn't have RAT slotted and that was a major pain.
Mag sustain was pretty good with that PvE build though - Seducer+EG and about 2k mag recovery, no pots. Mag morph of Focus.
Never came close to running out of mag despite being very liberal with my Radiating - although I was not dropping anything really expensive, like Siege Shield or Time Stop.

I was thinking about SPC because its proc WD/SD bonus is nothing to scoff at; in terms of raw group utility I'd rate it as second only to Transmutation.
The logic here being that using Transmutation+SPC not only makes the raid even harder to kill, it also causes the enemies to die faster, too.
Of course this would never fly in smallscale/BG, but largescale is very different, so there's no comparing the 2.

I'm not too worried about survivability with 5xL, as long as I can manage the stam to reposition when needed, which is a no-brainer on a Sorc.

BTW, I don't really like the new Springs (Illustrious), quite expensive to use (spam) in high-mobility PvP and can't drop multiple instances of it.
I know that we don't have any real alternative to it anyway (except for Warden class heals?), but still, this was quite a negative change.

Iskiab

What campaign, faction and platform do you play on? There are lots of good groups who play, but it really does depend on where you play. I play AD in homicide on PC-NA so recently moved from no-CP to CP so got a good look at different guilds on PC-NA.

On PC-NA at least in no-CP red was a roll over and very weak with no competitive guilds there. In the CP campaign Dracarys is excellent and there are some other strong guilds.

For blue they had some good guilds in no-CP, I’m not sure what the current state is but are generally weaker than red in the CP campaign. I think the stronger no-CP blue guilds moved to the CP campaign too and seem to be the best.

SPC is a good set yea but wearing PvE gear is crazy risky. You’ll be prone to ganking and burst damage in general in a setting where vicious death is very popular.

I’ve asked a lot about crit resists but haven’t gotten a clear answer for a minimum, I’d say 3k crit resists minimum from taking a look because with the transmutation buff you get put at a good total crit resists amount.

About radiating regen. I believe it stacks 3x from different sources. That means if it has a 10 second duration and hits 3 people per cast, to maintain it on 24 people will require 8 casts per 10 seconds. When I used it in my build I used it as a filler. By that I mean every GCD I cast something without fail, if I had something I wanted to cast I cast it, otherwise I’d hit RR. Doing this is effective but also requires trust in the other healers and more mag regen so you’ll regen magicka while spamming it.

I’d keep at it, pvp healing is fun and I’ve noticed pug groups have been stronger lately. People are doing something right. Where before we built ultimates on pugs, and we’d light attack them down to see if we could get a rage thread going, these days they’ve been more of a threat.

Are you AD on PC? I like competition and am all for helping all factions for better gameplay but we recently lost some very good players too. I want to help just enough so people are competitive but not enough so people can beat us!

P.S. - decide if you’re going to join a guild before investing more in gear. PvP guilds I’ve found have their own build philosophy, so 30k min health, x this, y that. It gives guilds a personality, but it also means if you join one they’ll ask you to change your gear to fit into their team.

Major_Lag

EP on PC-EU Kaal.

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of good players on your end.
We've also had some attrition on PC-EU, a couple of my friends who were very good PvPers (some of them former emps) no longer log in with any kind of regularity.

I saw maybe 1 or 2 EP guild tabards during my last geode grinding runs, don't remember the names though.
There's also one other "guild" that's just a loose bunch of friends with no real groups running, so they don't count; effectively they are roughly equivalent to a PUG.

I see many randoms and not-so-randoms repeatedly spam LFG in zone chat all day long, apparently half of the time there isn't even a PUG running at all.
The running joke in zonechat is that "all of EP runs solo"

EP also does not siege. Like, at all.
It's very common to find 20+ people stacked on a ram.
When sieging a keep, there's normally a few players who bring a total of 10-15 siege with them - and the remaining 20+ people just stand around like lemons, or pew pew the defenders on the D-ring.

From what I can see, EP in that campaign is mostly a bunch of "solo running" randoms with the durability of wet toilet paper and little practical knowledge of PvP, who are getting carried by a few really dedicated smallscale groups that also happen to nightcap regularly.

Since Elsweyr launched (or thereabouts), we won twice (IIRC) mostly due to the nightcapping, lost once to DC, and once to AD just a few days ago.
AD in particular started just aping DC's tactics and PvDoor zerging with massive faction stacks of their own, which led to them overwhelmingly dominating the map at all hours; that was a crushing defeat for both EP and DC alike.

---

But back to the build itself:

When I said SPC, of course I meant all in Impen - sorry if that was not clear enough from my earlier description.
But yeah, I know what you mean, running 2 support sets + 1 sustain set in PvP can be best described as "living on the edge"
3x Hakeijo enchant would be a must with such a setup, or maybe even go for broke and use 7x Hakeijo.

So far, VD is rather uncommon in our campaign.
With the exception of door repair bombers (meaningless), I usually walk away just fine from most bombings, because I know how to avoid getting caught up in the blast.
Ganking is also nowhere near as common as it used to be, it would seem. Perhaps most of the NBs just went extinct from eating all the nerfs?

Between 7x Impen, Transmutation buff, and extra crit resist from CP, >3k is what I would consider as the bare minimum, yes.

With a build like that, such crit resist realistically means that I can only take an extra 2-3 hits at most (compared to 0 crit resist as in my last geode farming run), but in a large group that is usually sufficient to be able to reposition considerably (esp. with Streak) and heal back up.
Even if the enemy gapcloses on me, they are now located roughly in the middle of my group, which is a situation which I can best describe as "most unfortunate" - for the enemy, that is

RR, yeah that gets spammed a lot, takes some pretty hefty sustain too. In practice that would mean running pots and heavy attacking when needed.
I would be aiming for at least 2.2-2.5k mag regen with such a build; failing that, use a mag regen or cost reduction glyph.

Shortly after Elsweyr launched, I tried using Symbiosis as a sustain tool for healing offensive siege parties (where it's often hard to get a full HA off of an enemy), but I found it very clunky to use, and it caused my heavy attacks to bug out very frequently (the "stuck heavy attacking" bug).

As for actually joining a guild, I'm nowhere near ready to commit to such a degree yet. Especially with the game's future being very uncertain as of right now.
For now I just want to experiment with things to find what works well for me - and I can do that just fine with LFGs, or even not being formally grouped at all.

Iskiab

Well if you’re a sorc I’d definitely look into shalk exoskeleton. Chug the cheap AP pots for mag, there’s no point in spending expensive pots for heroism. Sorc has sustain so shalk is a great set for more negates which are decisive in battles.

Major_Lag

Ok, now this might sound like a stupid question (because it is) - but what are the actually effective uses for a negate in PvP?

Negating out in the open is a non-starter, since the enemies can just move out of the negate.

So that leaves negating keep/outpost flags (ideally with oils pouring) when defending; also defensively negating breaches.

But negating offensively... I come up short on ideas here. Negating AoEs in breaches? Negating enemy-placed negates?

I have not really tested this, but does a negate prevent enemy oil AoEs from working?
I do know that it's impossible to place any ground AoEs (from abilities) into an enemy negate from the outside.
But what about siege AoEs?

BTW, a couple of times I also tried negating tower runners, it never did anything useful (as might be expected).
I was only able to successfully kill players with a negate out in the open twice: once when a tank ran into a tiny tent for LoS from our group (I negated the whole tent, lol ), and another time when another tank jumped down onto a tiny ledge just above slaughterfish - that ledge was completely inescapable, so he was as good as dead the instant he jumped down.
(fun fact: I also fell down down onto the very same ledge only moments afterwards - had to port away to IC to get out of there alive )
(edit: typo)

evoniee

i have breton templar 511 light:
spell power cure, transmutation, bogudan all impen hakeijo + 1 infused stam regen, 2 dawnprism mag regen, witchmother drink .

i found that healer dont need "really really high healing tooltips".
the things that matter is your precision, skill timing, position, self sustain.

evoniee

Major_Lag wrote: »

Ok, now this might sound like a stupid question (because it is) - but what are the actually effective uses for a negate in PvP?

Negating out in the open is a non-starter, since the enemies can just move out of the negate.

So that leaves negating keep/outpost flags (ideally with oils pouring) when defending; also defensively negating breaches.

But negating offensively... I come up short on ideas here. Negating AoEs in breaches? Negating enemy-placed negates?

I have not really tested this, but does a negate prevent enemy oil AoEs from working?
I do know that it's impossible to place any ground AoEs (from abilities) into an enemy negate from the outside.
But what about siege AoEs?

iirc, negate can remove aoe effect, so it is still helpful in open area, sometimes the fight gonna last long in one particular small spot, just dont use it right away.

Major_Lag

evoniee wrote: »

i have breton templar 511 light:
spell power cure, transmutation, bogudan all impen hakeijo + 1 infused stam regen, 2 dawnprism mag regen, witchmother drink .

Cool, that's more or less what I was going for - except for race and monster set.

How does your survivability look like in such a setup?
From the description it seems that this would result in roughly 30k health in CP PvP?

On a Sorc I'd probably drop stam regen glyph and one mag regen glyph for spell damage glyphs.

And yeah, I agree that maximizing the healing tooltips is not the right way - the healing is important but providing buffs is just as important, and of course decent survivability is needed too. A healer who dies a lot is a pretty bad healer

Iskiab

Biggest use for negates is to stop healing and magicka RAT.

It’s usually used in conjunction with other abilities. Typical ball group strategies are to call prox det so everyone casts them at the same time, then charge using rapids on a cluster. Root everyone in the area and negate and Ult dump the area. Mag won’t be able to RAT to break the root and burst the area.

You can negate a negate, so even as a pug it has uses to counter enemy negates.

Major_Lag

@Iskiab: About what you wrote in the other thread:

Templar channel heal - you mean the ulti, right?
It's great in stand-your-ground encounters, such as when an enemy zerg is about to rush your group on keep flags. I've used it very successfully in such cases.
But as you have noted, it's not at all useful in highly mobile fights.

Meditate - I also tried it, found it not very useful, except for a single use case - recovering resources while LoSing behind D-ring pillars during offensive sieges.
Still, that's too situational of a use to warrant slotting it, especially on a magsorc.

I also tried Symbiosis - but it's clunky as hell to use, the game's broken targeting does not help, and the HA channel is probably the buggiest ability in all of ESO.

IMO the only good use of Symbiosis in PvP is to LA allies for the very obnoxious sound effect, to grab their attention

Ballgroups: I haven't been PvPing for the last ~2 months - but before I took a break, ballgroups seemed to be on a decline.
A few months ago, it used to be the case that you could not PvP for a single day without running into at least 1 proper ballgroup in primetime. (PC-EU Kaal)
But then they gradually started appearing less and less.
During my geode grinding runs in the last 2 campaigns, I didn't run into a single ballgroup. Only some relatively disorganized faction stack zergs/PUGs, not nearly as well coordinated as a real ballgroup.

Negates: another stupid question, is there some ingame setting to let me more easily distinguish between allied and enemy negates?
I suppose there should be the usual AoE telegraph under it, but the darkening effect on the negate dome makes that quite hard to see.
BTW I'm currently running all default graphical settings on the AoE telegraphs, I can't stand the eye destroying solid bright pink telegraphs that I regularly see in most streams

Hexquisite

Major_Lag wrote: »

Ok, now this might sound like a stupid question (because it is) - but what are the actually effective uses for a negate in PvP?

Negating out in the open is a non-starter, since the enemies can just move out of the negate.

So that leaves negating keep/outpost flags (ideally with oils pouring) when defending; also defensively negating breaches.

But negating offensively... I come up short on ideas here. Negating AoEs in breaches? Negating enemy-placed negates?

I have not really tested this, but does a negate prevent enemy oil AoEs from working?
I do know that it's impossible to place any ground AoEs (from abilities) into an enemy negate from the outside.
But what about siege AoEs?

BTW, a couple of times I also tried negating tower runners, it never did anything useful (as might be expected).
I was only able to successfully kill players with a negate out in the open twice: once when a tank ran into a tiny tent for LoS from our group (I negated the whole tent, lol ), and another time when another tank jumped down onto a tiny ledge just above slaughterfish - that ledge was completely inescapable, so he was as good as dead the instant he jumped down.
(fun fact: I also fell down down onto the very same ledge only moments afterwards - had to port away to IC to get out of there alive )
(edit: typo)

Negating a group as they are about to ult bomb or get ult bombed is the best thing ever. Negate is a skill of patience.
My faction on PC NA has all of 2 Negate users lol--thus why my faction in general gets rolled by ball groups.

Major_Lag

Hexquisite wrote: »

Negating a group as they are about to ult bomb or get ult bombed is the best thing ever. Negate is a skill of patience.
My faction on PC NA has all of 2 Negate users lol--thus why my faction in general gets rolled by ball groups.

This is more common that you might otherwise think.

On PC-EU Kaal, it is - or at least, was - quite uncommon to see any allied negates that didn't come from the mage NPCs (when defending keeps)
Not sure if this has changed, I haven't been PvPing for several weeks now. But I think it's a safe bet that it didn't change, after all.

Also, in those few months of playing PvP earlier, I've only seen 2 other Transmutation set users - other than myself.
That despite a multitude of players advertising themselves as healers through "healer LFG" in zonechat. Seriously?

BTW, if it makes you feel any better, EP on PC-EU Kaal does not siege. Most of the PUGlings just stand in front of the gates, most likely trying to make them explode with the power of their thoughts or something like that

NBrookus

PUG or zerg surf healer? For templar, Transmutation, Bloodspawn and Heartland/Swift/Pariah is durable and very useful. If you have it, you can back bar Trans with Ritual and front bar vma resto with radiating regen. (Or vice versa.)

Coordinated groups will divvy up buff sets that include Olorime, Sanctuary, Worm and others, and are usually less defensively built since they'll have back-up and cross heals.

Major_Lag

@Iskiab You've mentioned your Sorc healer in the other thread, for reference here's my WIP build (for largescale) as it currently stands:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=180702

Remarks:

• Insane mobility - and if played correctly, you will never be running low on stamina, either.
• Good baseline sustain, and there's still wiggle room to adjust jewelry glyphs as needed (mag regen/SD tradeoff).
• Uses the much cheaper Witchmother's food, instead of Clockwork Citrus Fillet or other gold food/drink.
• 25k HP and 12k stam in CP PvP with 5x Hakeijo enchant. Maybe use 3x Hakeijo on big pieces only, instead.
• ~3.5k crit resist (buffed).
• 45% crit rate and +85% crit damage.
• Troll King for even better healing output in highly demanding situations.
• Transmutation + SPC for maximum group utility, at the cost of less tankiness (partially offset by the increased heals, thanks to SPC buff).
• Backbar - lightning staff for some AoE damage + Concussion opportunities on tightly stacked enemies. If you want the tankier option, use an ice staff (disable trifocus passive!) or SnB backbar.
• Unusual set pieces distribution, because the Golden had SPC rings on sale recently.
• Roll dodging projectiles sets enemies Off Balance (CP passive) -> extra group utility + sustain aid.
• Endless Fury for mop-up execute + crazy sustain (a well placed cast nets you almost 3k mag!).
• Negate into Timestop into group ultidump, to really mess up ballgroups hard and fast.
• Eye of the Storm for heavy AoE damage in highly mobile fights, where a Negate would be wasted anyway. Feel free to replace EotS with Replenishing Barrier when running in well-coordinated groups, as opposed to PUGs.
• Power Surge for Major Sorcery + free AoE heals on cooldown. At least Power Surge will proc very reliably, as opposed to Crit Surge, since you have no DoTs to pepper enemies with.

Do note that this setup relies heavily on high mobility and healing for survivability, while trusting the rest of the group to promptly dispose of any enemies focusing you.
In PUGs, just kite any dangerous enemies on you into the middle of the group, that usually does the trick

---

Edit:
Today I dusted off my old Sorc healer gear (Transmutation + Julianos 5x heavy), paired it with Troll King, and went grinding for geodes.

Skill loadout as per the above WIP build.
Completely wrong CP allocation (PvE-centric) because I could not be bothered to change it.

It was a lot of fun - the highlight of the evening was when I kept about a dozen AD ocupied at Harlun's with a single ballista of my own, preventing them from repairing the door while rolling and dancing around all the incoming siege hits, while my allies wiped any heroes who were foolish enough to try and fight us; eventually all defenders were killed just as I finished opening the gate with only 1 ballista
No idea what group it was, but they were really bad - they kept dropping from the D-ring like lemmings, taking so much fall damage that they only took 1-2 light attacks to finish off from there

As for mobility - horses are overrated.
I was stuck in combat most of the time (as expected), but that did not slow me down much.
Between BoL, constant Major Expedition, and sprinting about 80% of the time, I also had no problems catching up with our sprint-happy group, which I consider as a very good result.

tsaescishoeshiner

The duration on Transmutation is so long that you could consider using a Resto weapon set (Blackrose, Maelstrom, vDSA) and a Transmutation destro

They've intentionally removed a LOT of snares from the game over the last few patches, so Templar's Reflective Light is very rare now as an AoE snare

I personally prefer Ice Staff for the immobilize on Wall of Elements. Used to run it on my heavy armor (Pariah) petsorc healer. I also liked the Overload morph that grants magicka as a sustain tool & pressure while still letting you save Ult for Negate

Have you tried Gossamer for zerg healing yet? Been wanting to try it with Transmutation for a while

Iskiab

Gossamer’s okay I guess. Major evasion is good, issue is moreso some players will already have major evasion and a 2 second buff is sorta crappy.

Major_Lag

@tsaescishoeshiner
Good riddance with the snares - when I was PvPing a few months ago, it felt like I was playing Elder Snares Online at times.
Apparently, U24 will introduce further (mechanical) nerfs to snares, too.
Incidentally, this is why I feel it's reasonably viable to not use RAT, especially since I already have a good source of Major Expedition.

Transmutation: the way I see it, the problem with backbarring it is that there's no guarantee that it will proc on everyone (up to the hidden cap of 12?), because it does not proc on overhealing. Anyone who's already at full health will miss out on the buff.

Also, barswap is notoriously laggy in most of the intended use cases for this build - so I'd like to stay on frontbar as much as possible, only switching to backbar to reapply buffs or when it's time to crush the opposition.

Ice staff would be nice indeed (esp. because of its blocking bonuses), but I don't have bar space to even slot WoE here.
I feel that Time Stop is more useful overall - and after WoE's cost increases drastically in the upcoming U24, Time Stop looks even more attractive in light of that.

Besides, I like the lightning staff because it's a channel (undodgeable) and also because it hits multiple enemies.
I'd also like to keep my execute; too often I see allies struggling to kill an enemy who's already in execute range (because they are not using an execute themselves?). Sometimes, a little extra push is all that's needed

You do raise a good point with Overload, though.
I've always dismissed it as completely worthless - especially after the Scalebreaker nerfs - and totally forgot that there's even a sustain morph of it.
And it is true that in this role, I'm frequently sitting on 500 ultimate anyway - because there's nothing to negate out in open field, etc.

Iskiab

Transmutation can easily be back barred but only by Templars. They can back bar it with ritual, other classes have issues like NBs where refreshing path won’t proc it.

tsaescishoeshiner

Yeah large-scale lag is also why I gave up on bombing in those situations : P. Just some other weapon options:

I actually run my Magblade healer as Resto/Greatsword. Originally the 2H was to use Onslaught for bombing, but I've grown attached to the extra spell damage for heals and 6% damage on that bar--especially for execute, Soul Tether, or a backbar Meteor.

It's a similar idea to this creative Dual Wield/Resto Mend Wounds healblade build someone posted today: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/dc9vc2/weird_eso_builds_radivvir_mend_wounds_nightblade/

1H and Shield is another popular backbar option, particularly if you had barspace for Defensive Position from Asylum Sanctorium:

(2 items) When you reflect or absorb a spell projectile with Defensive Posture, you restore 2000 Magicka. If Defensive Posture expires without reflecting or absorbing a spell projectile, you restore 5000 Magicka instead.

I see a lot of shields in Cyro, and I usually avoid targeting them.

Iskiab

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Yeah large-scale lag is also why I gave up on bombing in those situations : P. Just some other weapon options:

I actually run my Magblade healer as Resto/Greatsword. Originally the 2H was to use Onslaught for bombing, but I've grown attached to the extra spell damage for heals and 6% damage on that bar--especially for execute, Soul Tether, or a backbar Meteor.

It's a similar idea to this creative Dual Wield/Resto Mend Wounds healblade build someone posted today: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/dc9vc2/weird_eso_builds_radivvir_mend_wounds_nightblade/

1H and Shield is another popular backbar option, particularly if you had barspace for Defensive Position from Asylum Sanctorium:

(2 items) When you reflect or absorb a spell projectile with Defensive Posture, you restore 2000 Magicka. If Defensive Posture expires without reflecting or absorbing a spell projectile, you restore 5000 Magicka instead.

I see a lot of shields in Cyro, and I usually avoid targeting them.

Hey, that’s what I play! Here’s a link, I’m not sure if I already linked it but it’s extremely effective and OP:

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=177748

I used to use 2H too. We used to go up against Fengrush and his crew a lot and I swear they’d target me. Anyways, their favourite tactic is to root and negate you so forward momentum was great to try and escape. Dodge rolling gives you a predictable end spot and there was usually a negate waiting for me at the end, so I tried forward momentum for a bit to good effect.

DW I use because it’s slightly more spell damage than 2H, but mainly it looks really badass. I’m 2H on my back bar but think I’m going to switch to double DW. The heal animation for DW is you put one hand in the air, and when you refreshing path you put both daggers in one hand (outfit station) and use one hand to cast.

I’d typically never post my spec on the forums that I use for group play, but I’ll likely be switching my class and spec post patch so don’t mind. The CPs are a bit jacked but you get the gist.

Highest I’ve hit is 15k HPS in one crazy keep fight, and that’s excluding overhealing.

Edit - one thing’s wrong on that link. I use Siphoning Strikes on my back bar, Symbiosis works with Siphoning Strikes but unfortunately not with merciless.

Kadoin

Iskiab wrote: »

Gossamer’s okay I guess. Major evasion is good, issue is moreso some players will already have major evasion and a 2 second buff is sorta crappy.

It's not 2 seconds, it refreshes every tick of a heal as long as your HP is below 100%. If you are taking damage it is pretty much 100% up for you and allies as long as any HoT of yours is ticking on them. It's an underestimated and overlooked set that is kind of OP in my opinion, but hey, ZOS changed it recently so they must have a good idea of balance...

Iskiab

Kadoin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Gossamer’s okay I guess. Major evasion is good, issue is moreso some players will already have major evasion and a 2 second buff is sorta crappy.

It's not 2 seconds, it refreshes every tick of a heal as long as your HP is below 100%. If you are taking damage it is pretty much 100% up for you and allies as long as any HoT of yours is ticking on them. It's an underestimated and overlooked set that is kind of OP in my opinion, but hey, ZOS changed it recently so they must have a good idea of balance...

Yea it’s good, I sorta think what support set you use should depend on your class.

If your class doesn’t have access to major evasion go at it. As a magblade I have it already so meh, never appealed to me. If you run with a lot of pvp stam they’ll likely have major evasion too.

If I was playing a templar I’d go Transmutation and never look back. The synergy between transmutation and ritual’s awesome. For a warden IDK, maybe gossamer? For a NB I went with meritorious service but the cleanse set with Soul Siphon would be good if Soul Siphon wasn’t so crappy. Sanctuary on a DK makes sense because you have the tankiness to get in the thick of things. Sorc?... Idk.

Don’t forget too with hots, there’s a target limit of 6 players on all the non-ultimate heals. That means to hit a lot of players you’d need everyone to stand still and multiple hots.

So like if 24 people are standing in one spot and you use gossamer with springs on the stack you’ll only effect 12 people. Does orbs work with it? If so that could easily make it hit 24.

Major_Lag

I'll chime in with some feedback here, regarding skill selection on a Sorc healer.

I 'm currently levelling my new Sorc alt in CP PvP (because it's a lot more fun than the PvE grinding alternatives), and also made him a largescale healer for that purpose. Using Kagrenac's + Magnus + Assassin (2pc); character is level 30-ish so no BoL nor Dark Deal yet.

I really miss not (yet) having access to BoL and Dark Deal. Playing a high mobility class without actually having the high mobility is NOT fun.
Especially since as a healer, I'm stuck in combat ALL THE DAMN TIME, and really really need an inexhaustible source of stamina for all the constant sprinting everywhere
I can't even begin to count all the times where I got killed only because I was lacking the mobility normally provided by BoL and/or the stam + burst heal of Dark Deal.

I also miss not having Time Stop yet, to combo it with a Negate for countering ballgroups. Or to spam it (without the Negate) on potato zergs, as appropriate.

On backbar (lightning staff), I used WoE as a "filler" ability to replace some of the abovementioned abilities which I can't access yet.
It's situationally useful in some circumstances, mostly to drop it on resource flags or in front of doors under repair (to counter bombers) or on keep stairs for some extra AoE damage + Off-Balance.
Also it's useful to drop it on enemy rams (or rather, their operators) from the grille above the keep doors, due to the bug (feature?) of how ground AoEs work when cast on top of those grilles.
Unfortunately, I won't have the bar space to run WoE in the "finished" build.

Boundless is a must-have, no question about it. (or RAT, which is even better IF you can live with getting Major Resolve+Ward from another source, and running Detect pots)
It's VERY satisfying to be sticking to a poor enemy NB who's obviously trying to cloak and run away... but they are still in my AoE and thus unable to cloak

I tried using both Crit Surge and Power Surge.
The former was quite good when paired with soul splitting trap (to guarantee it procs on cooldown), but no Major Sorcery and no AoE heal.
However, getting any uptime on the DoTs proved to be quite impossible when facing a proper ballgroup with a purge monkey. My soultrap was being immediately purged away - even when I was judiciously reapplying it every single GCD (!). Purge OP, pls nerf
In the end, I found Power Surge to be the superior morph for a largescale healer: it will reliably proc on cooldown, gives Major Sorcery, and the heal is fairly decent - considering that it's a cheap, long lasting, fairly large AoE that moves with the caster.

Last, but most certainly not least, Endless Fury proved to be useful well beyond my initial expectations.
Not only it gives me something useful to do in the "cleanup phase" of fights (where heals are seldom needed by that point), it's also a good sustain aid when used correctly.
I've also found another good, unintended (?) use for it: draining medium armor users' stamina on demand (in XvX/Xv1 situations of course). They will roll to force a miss... but good luck sustaining 20 rolls in a row when I'm spamming Endless almost every GCD on you (and with the sustain of a healer, Endless truly lives up to its name!)

Iskiab

Yea, fury’s great. I always thought that Templars made the best class for mixing damage and healing, but I think it’s actually sorcs.

I’ve been leveling a sorc and just hit 50. Still need to level skill lines or whatnot, but fury + frag on a healer is pretty good.

Bar space crunch is an issue, but hard casting frags - fury - instant frags works most of the time and will burst down all but the tankiest players. LA overload guarantees it. Just time it with the guaranteed stun.

Major_Lag

Interesting, I didn't even consider trying frags on a healer; the tooltip is quite low compared to what it would be on a normal damage spec build.
I'll give it a try; currently I still have at least 2 slots occupied by "filler" abilities so ATM I don't really give up anything (useful) to slot Frags instead.

But hardcasting frags, is that even a thing? With the amount of ability spam involved in the healer role, surely you should be sitting on a near-constant frags proc at all times?

As for templars - a couple weeks ago I tried running my magplar in a PvP healer role (using the same old Transmutation+Julianos setup borrowed from my Sorc), but I could not quite figure out how to make that work well; the healing part was perfectly fine but mobility was somewhat lacking (even with RAT), and Jbeam feels very clunky to use when on the move.
In all fairness, that was no doubt a l2templar problem - I have >1000 hours on my magsorc but only <200 on my magplar, a lot of which were spent in PvE on grinding to lv50 and levelling skill lines.

Also, not having Negate was very frustrating at times. Sure, a good templar healer can keep the group alive even through some pretty heavy punishment... but that doesn't do any good if your group still can't kill the enemy group

Urzigurumash

In some groups Troll King on a Healer might be superfluous, since you may have Brawlers wearing it and possibly even using Echoing Vigor. You can only have one instance of Troll King at a time, so if you're healing Brawlers wearing it, you'd be much better off with another set.

mague

Major_Lag wrote: »

Transmutation set is a given - this is non-negotiable, it's easily the best PvP healing set.

Nope. Everyone and his cousin has 3k resists nowadays. They drop organised ultis and resists wont save the day. You need sustain and huge pools for big heals. Hasty Prayer does make sense in PvP agianst bombers and combined ults. But one wont do it. 2-3 are better Honor the Death is you survival. Those all need pool and sustain.

Bright-Throat's Boast impen or even Seducer light impen is better. There is a witchmother drink that is fitting Bright-Throat. Jewels with cost reduction and you will never ever have any sustain problems. Other set maybe Pariah or Brass or similar. I like the 2% healing on Trollking for example. But there are other combinations possible.

The crowd needs your cleanse from Ritual as spam and sustain from Shards and never ending siege shield. Ritual ticks 1.5-1.9k and crits quite often with 5 light. You can stack Healing Springs on it. Plus some Mutagen when it turns chaotic. This all as a rotation when in front of a heavily defended door

Major_Lag

mague wrote: »

Nope. Everyone and his cousin has 3k resists nowadays. They drop organised ultis and resists wont save the day. You need sustain and huge pools for big heals.

Do you know what is the best counter to a ballgroup? Unless they are inside a keep or at a strategically critical resource, just leave them alone and go somewhere else, they will get bored eventually and die of AP starvation

Other than that, the only good counterplay is to bring your own ballgroup.
With randoms you might as well forget about it, it's about as bad as trying to pug vet DLC dungeons in terms of wiping.

And speaking of randoms - they most definitely do NOT have 3k+ crit resist, the average rando has maybe 2k at best, so Transmutation is still indispensable for healing LFG groups.

For sieging well defended doors (more than about 3 oils + ability spam from D-ring), in random groups ramming is just not viable, even with permanent Siege Shield. It's a lot better to just put up several ballistae under the D-ring, and maybe some trebs as well.
Of course in ballgroups it's a whole different story; good ballgroups will deploy 15+ siege in less than 10 seconds, and you will never be able to kill any ram operators with just the oils - even if you have 6 oils pouring.

Unfortunately, a Sorc healer is quite... challenged... in terms of defensive group utility (no class purge, no class resource restoring synergy), which is why I feel that Transmutation + TK is probably the best way of picking up the slack there.
Especially since randoms/LFGs tend to suffer from 2 major problems: they lack good damage output, and they lack good survivability.

Iskiab

I play in an organized group in cyrodiil. Couple things that might help:

- crit resists are crazy important. I have a spec designed that just deletes low crit resists builds. A NB Khajit using the shadow mundus can get up to a 113% crit modifier in CP pvp. 3k crit resists is only a 45% crit reduction, meaning against players who go 3k crit resists I get a 60% crit modifier. Paired with onslaught and I’ve hit people with 18k dizzies and prox dets.
- Sorc doesn’t have a group cleanse but the amazing sustain allows you to use cleanse which is the best aoe heal until Monday (new patch halving it’s healing). Dark deal is really good. I sorta copied the idea of the OP but went wood elf and will use dark deal, so instead of the other morph that returns stamina and pumping all mag regen I went stamina and mag regen to use dark deal more. Haven’t taken it out for a spin in Cyro to see how well it will work
- I’ve been playing around on PTS and found 20% healing modifier is the sweet spot. It gets cleanse up to a 6% healing modifier. Anything past that wouldn’t get me to 7%, IDK why. Even tried it with a 50% healing modifier. After 20% boost mag, sustain, and defense.
- I’m thinking Chudan, Necro and transmutation? IDK, still figuring it out
- Frags is okay, in Cyro you’ll always be healing but when I play a full healer it sucks to not be able to fight back sometimes. Some silly NB will try to gank me, I’d rather merc them sometimes instead of having to run away. I mainly tried frags in BGs.

Something like this?

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=184847

Looks bad to me, I need the shield for minor intellect but am not sure where to put it. Every time I look at my sorc healer my build changes, I need to playtest it. Maybe Trans isn't a good idea and I'll make a templar do it.

Edit - BTB does look better imo. Still has the issue of crappy resists... hum.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=184849

I also like having streak and dark deal on the same bar. As a new sorc I'm addicted to it, streak x4 dark deal x2 everywhere.