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Dungeon roles
xXTomahawkXx
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Dungeon roles should be determined based on the amount of skills you have slotted. For example if I'm playing a tank and the majority of my skills are tank based then the DPS and heal roles should not be available for me. Of course that wouldn't stop people from changing skills around in the dungeon though so that could still be a problem.
Why?
I ran a pug in vet depths of malatar recently and the "healer" (dps) successfully allowed the group to wipe many times on the first boss. He then proceeded to question the rest of the group if we had ever completed the dungeon before. Furthermore, he proceeded to berate me via whisper for ~15 mins after I left the group. FURTHERMORE, I queued for another random and sure enough he was in the group and convinced the rest of the group to kick me..
Why?
I ran a pug in vet depths of malatar recently and the "healer" (dps) successfully allowed the group to wipe many times on the first boss. He then proceeded to question the rest of the group if we had ever completed the dungeon before. Furthermore, he proceeded to berate me via whisper for ~15 mins after I left the group. FURTHERMORE, I queued for another random and sure enough he was in the group and convinced the rest of the group to kick me..
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As you noted, it won't stop players from swapping skills in the dungeons.
Nor should it, because there are some fights with untauntable bosses where its a good tactic for the tank to swap to DPS gear for a faster clear, like Drodda or the Engine Guardian.
Plus, many healers use one bar for DPS, and are still quite capable of healing their group.Edited by VaranisArano on September 21, 2019 5:34PM10 -
gatekeeper13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, happens to me all the time. And the same thing in vDoM happened to me too. A 810 DD posing as a healer that caused the group to wipe all the time in Scavening Maw. Had to leave group.
In my opinion, everyone's dungeon role should be locked for some days. For example, if someone plays a DD, he shouldnt be able to change the role for, let's say, a week. Or another similar mechanism that will protect dungeon roles and wont let DDs ruin other peoples game by posing as fake healers or fake tanks.Edited by gatekeeper13 on September 21, 2019 5:42PM3 -
xXTomahawkXx✭✭^ Tank gear change makes sense especially for those boss fights with certain mechanics. Thinking about newer vet players/low CP players that might not have decent self heals or aren't aware of certain mechanics. A decent healer makes the game better for everyone instead of dying multiple times.1
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redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vet DLC dungeons are not balanced for pug groups. If you're looking to do a vet DLC dungeon, try to get a premade for it. If you can't, consider putting it off for a later time.
If you spin that wheel with the puglets, don't have any expectations.5 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭xXTomahawkXx wrote: »Dungeon roles should be determined based on the amount of skills you have slotted. For example if I'm playing a tank and the majority of my skills are tank based then the DPS and heal roles should not be available for me. Of course that wouldn't stop people from changing skills around in the dungeon though so that could still be a problem.
Why?
I ran a pug in vet depths of malatar recently and the "healer" (dps) successfully allowed the group to wipe many times on the first boss. He then proceeded to question the rest of the group if we had ever completed the dungeon before. Furthermore, he proceeded to berate me via whisper for ~15 mins after I left the group. FURTHERMORE, I queued for another random and sure enough he was in the group and convinced the rest of the group to kick me..
Normally I find that PUGing the vet DLCs are far more pleasant than anything else, but I'm wondering how the bolded statement happened. Why didn't you put them on ignore?gatekeeper13 wrote: »Yes, happens to me all the time. And the same thing in vDoM happened to me too. A 810 DD posing as a healer that caused the group to wipe all the time in Scavening Maw. Had to leave group.
In my opinion, everyone's dungeon role should be locked for some days. For example, if someone plays a DD, he shouldnt be able to change the role for, let's say, a week. Or another similar mechanism that will protect dungeon roles and wont let DDs ruin other peoples game by posing as fake healers or fake tanks.
This is a mechanism that punishes real roles. Institute a rule even remotely resembling that and my real tank will never PUG, because I also DPS, and sometimes even heal, on the same characters, effectively in any content.
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xXTomahawkXx✭✭I've never set someone to ignore on the Xbox but I was certainly trying to find it. Eventually just blocked his gamertag.1
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ProfessorKittyhawk✭✭✭✭✭
✭In FFXIV your role for dungeons and raids were dependent on your class. I know ESO doesn't function like that but, class/skills should be looked at as what determines your role. Also, level. Being a healer or tank at cp810 and being grouped with level 13 or 14 players makes a rudimentary dungeon take longer than it should. Group players with people at or around their level so the groups are more balanced.0 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »Vet DLC dungeons are not balanced for pug groups. If you're looking to do a vet DLC dungeon, try to get a premade for it. If you can't, consider putting it off for a later time.
If you spin that wheel with the puglets, don't have any expectations.
Why are you bringing common sense in here? The nerve of some people.
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AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »In FFXIV your role for dungeons and raids were dependent on your class. I know ESO doesn't function like that but, class/skills should be looked at as what determines your role. Also, level. Being a healer or tank at cp810 and being grouped with level 13 or 14 players makes a rudimentary dungeon take longer than it should. Group players with people at or around their level so the groups are more balanced.
It is a vexing challenge certainly, but every idea for ZOS to implement generates unintended consequences and does not work for all. In my case, my CP1200 tank and healer each enjoy doing normal pugs for two reasons. First, they are often just looking for a no drama run to get a transmute crystal and, secondly, they enjoy providing their services to younger players who often appreciate seeing an experienced tank or healer in action. As you say, grouping with low level players often does mean a slower run but I'm in absolutely no hurry when I play.
To date, the only means I've ever considered fair and successful is to, after warning/discussion, kicking fake tanks / fake heals. And that option requires no action by ZOS.Edited by AcadianPaladin on September 21, 2019 8:27PMPC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo1 -
Artim_X✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, experience makes the difference. There are variety of ways to play the game and get the job done and as you mentioned a skill bar check will not prevent fake support from popping into the instance.
If someone is clearly not doing their job don't have a discussion about them just kick them without hesitation. If the other members of the group are paying attention the kick will practically be instant.(AD) Artim X/Xirtām/Måtrix |PC/NA| Casual staff wielding vampire sorcerer/templar/arcanistElectric-Stunhttps://media.giphy.com/media/Av0zcKH3i2BkaY1GXW/giphy.gif/https://c.tenor.com/jQHdFftrgwMAAAAC/tenor.gifElectric-Pets- Roleplay Damage Dealing Build.
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (infused/shock enchant), and Kinras's jewelry (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused/flame/weapon damage enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Boundless Storm, Mages' Wrath, Lightning Flood, Shocking Soul (Shock damage, Class Mastery Signature Script, and Empower), and Power Overload.
- Ability-Bar 2: Storm Pulsar, Streak, Shock Reach, Unstable Wall of Storms, Shocking Burst (Shock Damage, remove 1 negative effect, and interrupt) and Thunderous Rage.
Solo: Use Kinras's chest, replace Mora with Ring of the Pale Order, and use a heavy Slimcraw piece for max critical.
https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNHVjemwxZHI2ZmQ2bTg1ZG0xOTZ3b2QwajBzNGxmaHh6OXRpN3p6YSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/eBgWizk5dmZRS/giphy.gifElectric-Heal- Stress free one bar pet build .
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants. No chest piece), 1 medium Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, medium, Max Mag Enchants), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant ring and necklace (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant), Oakensoul ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)
- Ability-Bar: Daedric Prey, Summon Volatile Familiar, Bound Armaments, Unstable Wall of Storms, Summon Twilight Matriarch, and Greater storm Atronach.
https://media.giphy.com/media/5ibGIHneWS6ek/giphy.gifElectric-Ward- My Healer Build.
- Gear: 5 Spell Power Cure (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (Charged/shock enchant), and Infallible Aether jewelry (arcane with spell damage enchant)/restoration staff (Powered with absorb magicka enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Power Surge, Boundless Storm, Blessing of Restoration, Energy Orb, Twilight Matriarch, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Dark Deal, Overflowing Altar, Elemental Drain, Blockade of Storms, Twilight Matriarch, and Aggressive Horn.
https://media.giphy.com/media/Wa0TGmtDvwW3e/giphy.gifElectric-Vamp- My Meme Tank Build that uses high resistance and variety of wards.
- Gear: 5 Brands of Imperium (All body pieces except Head and Shoulders, with Divine trait, and with Prismatic Defense Enchants), full Iceheart (1 light and 1 medium. Divines and Prismatic Enchant), and Combat Physician jewelry (bloodthirsty with Prismatic Recovery Enchants), Combat Physician restoration staff (Infused with hardening enchant), and combat physician ice staff (Infused with crusher enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Bound Aegis, Deep Thoughts, Boundless Storm, Healing Ward, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Silver Leash (Elemental Drain if healer isn't running it), Bound Aegis, Frost Clench, Blockade of Frost, Empowered Ward, and Temporal Guard.
https://media.giphy.com/media/ukDQiYZzRAxMZKcK86/giphy.gifDawnfang- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (medium chest and body pieces light. All Impenetrable with Prismatic Enchants). Gaze of Sithis and 1 light Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton (light shoulders, and impenetrable with Prismtaic Enchants). Knight Slayer (Swift with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused with oblivion enchant)/restoration staff (infused with oblivion enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Structured Entropy, Boundless Storm, Soul Splitting Trap, Radiating Regeneration, Healing Ward, and Life Giver.
- Ability-Bar 2: Drain Vigor (Elemental Susceptibility), Race Against Time, Rune Cage, Radiant Magelight, Regenerative Ward, and Shatter Soul.
https://media.tenor.com/ogWfvDdsqBIAAAAd/anime-black-clover.gifDuskfang- My casual one bar heavy attack Templar build that primarily utilizes Aedric Spear abilities.
- Gear: 5 Noble Duelist (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 light Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Puncturing Sweep, Aurora Javelin, Toppling Charge, Blazing Spear, Radiant Ward/Breath of life, and Crescent Sweep.
https://media.tenor.com/Jo8aG_ouy_oAAAAd/ac-odyssey.gifEye of the Queen- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on chest/head/legs and everything else Prismatic Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Prismatic Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both Swift with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Swift with Spell Damage Enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Radiant Oppression, Race Against Time, Aurora Javelin, Breath of Life, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/44/1c/fd441c8242af6ec35ada94496feb0901.gifEye of the King- My casual one bar heavy attack Arcanist build that primarily utilizes Herald of the Tome abilities.
- Gear: 5 Noble Duelist (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 light Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Pragmatic Fatecarver, Cephaliarch's Flail, Rune of Displacement, Inspired Scholarship/Evolving Runemend, and The Languid Eye.
https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExOTAzdjV1eTgwbDFmM3lrZmxuMXRqdDR3Y3h1ZDRpajR0M3VjZzQ3NSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/zXmbOaTpbY6mA/giphy.gifPvE Starter Gear- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on chest/head/legs and everything else Prismatic Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Prismatic Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both Swift with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Swift with Spell Damage Enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Race Against Time, Rune of Uncanny Adoration, Evolving Runemend, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver.
https://media.giphy.com/media/6CovzgyTig7M4/giphy.gifRace- Gear: 5 Law of Julianos (heavy chest, gloves/belt light, and the rest can be light or 1 medium piece if you're not wearing medium anywhere else on your body. All in training if grinding for XP or divines), Armor of the Seducer or Magnus' Gift head, shoulder, and staves (light with 1 medium piece if you are not already wearing 1 medium Julianos piece. All in training or divines. The staves should be training or infused), and 3 purple Willpower Jewelry with Arcane trait (can be bought from trading guilds for relatively cheap.
- Check tamrieltradecentre.com for the best deals if you're not using a price checking addon).
https://media.giphy.com/media/sdEkeWpiaGz0A/giphy.gifMundus Stones- High elf, since you will not have issues with sustain, but other mag based races are also fine so this is more of a personal choice.
https://media.giphy.com/media/cT3wMhLGQWdKU/giphy.gifCurrent Champion Points- PvP: The Steed for speed. Gotta go fast!
- PvE Healing/Damage: The Thief for decent crit rate.
- PvE Tanking: The Lady to get close to resistance cap.
https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGDAx6u3hthMhgI/giphy.gifFavorite Foods and Potions- DPS: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Exploiter, Weapons Expert, Fighting Finesse, Master-at-Arms, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Healer Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Hope Infusion, Weapon's Expert, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Tanky Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Ironclad, Enduring Resolve, Reinforced, Duelist's Rebuff, Bastion, Ward Master, Rejuvenation, Fortified.
- PvP Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, Occult Overload, Arcane Supremacy, Bastion, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- PvP Temp/Arcanist: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, From the Brink, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoTggaYFNd1FdAI/giphy.gif- Parse Food for PvE:(DPS) Ghastly Eye Bowl (increases Max Magicka by 4592 and Magicka Recovery by 459 for 2 hours).
- Gold/Purple Food for Sorc PvP and Meme Tanking:(PvP) Clockwork Citrus Filet (increases Max Health by 3326, Health Recovery by 406 [useful if stage 1 vampire], Max Magicka by 3080, and Magicka Recovery by 338 for 2 hours). Witchmother's Potent Brew (Increase Max Magicka by 2856, Max Health by 3094, and Magicka Recovery by 315 for 2 hours.
- Trash Potions when feeling cheap: Regular CP150 Essence of Magicka pots that I obtain frequently from playing the game or Crown Tri-Restoration Potion obtained from dailies.
- Crafted Potions: Essence of Spell Critical (Bugloss, Lady's Smock, and Water Hyacinth). Without magelight this is my primary means of obtaining Major Prophecy on my Sorc, which increases my Spell Critical Rating. This also heals and restores magicka. Essence of Immovability (Columbine, Corn Flower, and Wormwood). I use this in PvP, since this gives me stealth detection, knockback immunity, and restores magicka (better to use it when competent allies are nearby, since it might reveal that you are surrounded by multiple players in stealth and you will not have an emergency pot available after use). Essence of Invisibility with only 2 ingredients (Blue Entoloma, Namira's Rot, Nirnroot, or Spider Egg). I use this in PvE content that requires stealth and if I need more speed I'll use Rapid Maneuver before using the potion. Essence of Invisibility with 3 ingredients (Blessed Thistle, Blue Entoloma, and Namira's Rot). Very useful in PvP alongside the vampire Dark Stalker passive, since you'll be invisible, ignore movement speed penalty while in Crouch, and you'll have a 30% movement speed boost from Major Expedition (I always have this slotted when riding from point A to B in PvP land, since gankers are always lurking). My templar/arcanist will mostly use Essence of Health (Tri-Stat Potion) Ingredients: (Mountain Flower, Columbine, and Bugloss).
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Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I have to concur with what others have said here. The only way these fake tanks/healers will learn is if everyone gets on board and kicks them as soon as they are found out."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What Zos could do is for someone to queue as a tank they would need to have one taunt unlocked and to queue for heals they would need to have one heal they can cast on group members. That is as far as it can go because both may be doing dps on quests while waiting for the queue to popl.
But again, OP acknowledges that even requiring them to have the skills on ones bar does nothing to prevent a fake tank or fake healer.1 -
gatekeeper13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have to concur with what others have said here. The only way these fake tanks/healers will learn is if everyone gets on board and kicks them as soon as they are found out.
Thing is they often stay in group because other group members with the same mentality decline the kick vote.redspecter23 wrote: »Vet DLC dungeons are not balanced for pug groups. If you're looking to do a vet DLC dungeon, try to get a premade for it. If you can't, consider putting it off for a later time.
If you spin that wheel with the puglets, don't have any expectations.
So true...Edited by gatekeeper13 on September 21, 2019 9:10PM2 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭xXTomahawkXx wrote: »I've never set someone to ignore on the Xbox but I was certainly trying to find it. Eventually just blocked his gamertag.
That's a valuable thing to know. While I have met many good players and nice people PUGing that content, placing some of the less friendly on ignore will save you some headache.
The first boss in vDoM can be a little rough on PUGs. Even good healers can find that fight challenging. Unless the group knows the mechanics and obeys them, they're not going to be able to keep everyone alive. If the tank panics and drags the cone through the group, someone misses an interupt/bash, or a DD stands in the AOEs, there's little a healer can do except rez them.
I'd shrug it off and continue on. Now you know how to ignore someone, life will be better because of that. 1 -
doomette✭✭✭✭✭
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I wish there was some sort of mechanism like this. I’ve thought about using the group finder for dungeons that pop up while leveling a character, but then I don’t want to be a drag on the whole group so I don’t. I can solo these dungeons easy-peasy on my fully leveled characters (not humble-bragging my elite skills, I’m talking Fungal Grotto I, etcProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »...
Being a healer or tank at cp810 and being grouped with level 13 or 14 players makes a rudimentary dungeon take longer than it should. Group players with people at or around their level so the groups are more balanced.
) but group finder seems like a mixed bag, so I don’t want to assume that a 810+ can handle my dinky level 20 alt puttering along with them.
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bmnoble✭✭✭✭✭
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I wish there was some sort of mechanism like this. I’ve thought about using the group finder for dungeons that pop up while leveling a character, but then I don’t want to be a drag on the whole group so I don’t. I can solo these dungeons easy-peasy on my fully leveled characters (not humble-bragging my elite skills, I’m talking Fungal Grotto I, etcProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »...
Being a healer or tank at cp810 and being grouped with level 13 or 14 players makes a rudimentary dungeon take longer than it should. Group players with people at or around their level so the groups are more balanced. ) but group finder seems like a mixed bag, so I don’t want to assume that a 810+ can handle my dinky level 20 alt puttering along with them.
They already have a mechanism, new characters unlock dungeons as they level, provided the low level players keep their characters in level appropriate gear they should have no issue doing their part in the dungeons available for them to queue for.
If people are complaining about have low level players in their group, when they are much at a much higher level, they can always switch to the VET queue or form a pre-made group.
While there are always plenty of low level DPS and some healers for the lower level groups, tanks are almost always high level because it does not make sense for players to level as a tank, since most of the tank relevant support skills are almost always unlocked later into skill lines.
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doomette✭✭✭✭✭
✭Okay cool, thanks, I’m glad it’s generally considered not a big deal. Level-appropriate gear won’t be a biggie as my main is a crafter.
Do you know if the random dungeon finder only works within the pool of dungeons your character has unlocked as they level, or if it’s all of them?0 -
Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Every time this kinda threads pop up and fake roles are discussed, its always about fake tanks and fake healers. What about fake dps? I see more of them than anything.4 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭They dont kick players who que for dps and don't dps...
I've been involved in very few kick-votes, especially if we leave out players who just obviously DCed/AFKed.
But when they happen, they're often of DDs.
That said, they can't be of the healer, because I'm always healing, so that only leaves a couple of other choices. 0 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Every time this kinda threads pop up and fake roles are discussed, its always about fake tanks and fake healers. What about fake dps? I see more of them than anything.
No, you don't. If a DPS is doing damage, then they are not a fake DPS. What you are probably seeing is bad DPS. Or more likely, adequate DPS that you consider bad. That's entirely different from fakes.
Fakes are people that queue for a specific job and then won't do that job. A tank who won't taunt and can't take a hit. A healer with no ability to heal and spending all his time trying to do damage. That sort of thing. A fake DPS would be someone sitting around watching everyone else work while they maybe toss some heals out or taunt the enemy off the tank or something. If you do the job you signed up for, you're not a fake, even if you do it badly."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."6 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have to concur with what others have said here. The only way these fake tanks/healers will learn is if everyone gets on board and kicks them as soon as they are found out.
We, as a community, often turn a blind eye when it concerns not-vet dungeons. You see posts where players run as a fake tank or healer because the dungeon doesn't need one.And some even encourage others to do so. Unfortunately, some take it to mean "Hey, we didn't need a tank/healer last time. Surely these vet dungeons are just as easy!".
But ultimately, pugs are by their very nature unpredictable. You roll the dice and take your chances."If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."2 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake means queuing for wrong role to get a faster queue time. Never seen a fake dps - plenty of bad dps but that is a completely different problem than fake queuing.PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo5 -
xeha_arwen11✭✭✭✭I have to concur with what others have said here. The only way these fake tanks/healers will learn is if everyone gets on board and kicks them as soon as they are found out.
This is the problem. I've tried kicking fake tanks and fake healers. I have NEVER had that succeed. No one ever kicks them.
I've had to leave myself instead because the dungeon became too much of a hassle. I'm a healer main. When we get a fake tank that puts ALL the responsibility on me. I have to heal the entire group constantly while tanking. Then when I try to kick the fake tank, it always fails. I don't understand this. But I'm sick and tired of it. I either get fake tanks (or fake healers if I'm on my tank character) and no one will ever kick them, or I queue a dungeon and have a max level tank leave immediately because there aren't all max levels in a NORMAL dungeon. I have had this happen so many times it is ridiculous.
And just waiting to do a dungeon with a pre-made just doesn't work nowadays. I'm in five guilds and I can almost never get people together for vet-dlc dungeons. People think being in guilds, even dungeon guilds is some magical cure. It's still really hard to get together a team for a lot of people. Pugging vet dlc is literally how I've beaten all of the dungeons. I want to do the dungeons; this game is just dying out and doesn't have a lot of end game players.2 -
Bryath✭✭✭Okay cool, thanks, I’m glad it’s generally considered not a big deal. Level-appropriate gear won’t be a biggie as my main is a crafter.
Do you know if the random dungeon finder only works within the pool of dungeons your character has unlocked as they level, or if it’s all of them?
Only the dungeons that character has unlocked. Queue for a random with a level 10 or 11 character and you're guaranteed to be off to Fungal Grotto 1 (iirc).0 -
SoLooney✭✭✭✭✭Every time this kinda threads pop up and fake roles are discussed, its always about fake tanks and fake healers. What about fake dps? I see more of them than anything.
No, you don't. If a DPS is doing damage, then they are not a fake DPS. What you are probably seeing is bad DPS. Or more likely, adequate DPS that you consider bad. That's entirely different from fakes.
Fakes are people that queue for a specific job and then won't do that job. A tank who won't taunt and can't take a hit. A healer with no ability to heal and spending all his time trying to do damage. That sort of thing. A fake DPS would be someone sitting around watching everyone else work while they maybe toss some heals out or taunt the enemy off the tank or something. If you do the job you signed up for, you're not a fake, even if you do it badly.
Your argument is flawed considering you said if they're doing dps then they are a dps role when tanks and healers do minuscule amounts of dps, but they still do dps
A fake dps is one who pulls miserable numbers, below 15k if you're cp.
Someone who just watches, they're a detriment, not a fake dps
If you do your role poorly. You're just a bad player0 -
Huyen✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have to concur with what others have said here. The only way these fake tanks/healers will learn is if everyone gets on board and kicks them as soon as they are found out.
The biggest issue right now is that they gut the damage potential of tanks with each patch. I got a warden tank, decided to finish Elsweyr properly today...I spend no less then 1 hour in a public dungeon to complete one quest. Surviving is fine, but the damage done really puts the fun down on playing a tank. I seriously considered going back to dps and accept a longer dungeon queue...So the fake tanks and healers will keep excisting untill tanks and healers can solo stuff more easy.Huyen Shadowpaw, dedicated nightblade tank - PS4 (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, nightblade dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Lightpaw, templar healer - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, necromancer dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, dragonknight (no defined role yet)
"Failure is only the opportunity to begin again. Only this time, more wisely" - Uncle Iroh0 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Every time this kinda threads pop up and fake roles are discussed, its always about fake tanks and fake healers. What about fake dps? I see more of them than anything.
No, you don't. If a DPS is doing damage, then they are not a fake DPS. What you are probably seeing is bad DPS. Or more likely, adequate DPS that you consider bad. That's entirely different from fakes.
Fakes are people that queue for a specific job and then won't do that job. A tank who won't taunt and can't take a hit. A healer with no ability to heal and spending all his time trying to do damage. That sort of thing. A fake DPS would be someone sitting around watching everyone else work while they maybe toss some heals out or taunt the enemy off the tank or something. If you do the job you signed up for, you're not a fake, even if you do it badly.
Your argument is flawed considering you said if they're doing dps then they are a dps role when tanks and healers do minuscule amounts of dps, but they still do dps
Doesn't matter. A DPS that can take damage or heal is still a DPS as long as he's primarily focused on that job. It's no different from a tank that uses an AoE heal or a healer who can off-tank if need be. Whats important is whether or not you lied on your job application.
If you signed up to tank and then you don't tank, you are a fake tank. Similarly, if you're a DPS and don't bother doing damage, you're a fake DPS. But as long as you're at least trying to do the job you specifically signed up for, then you're not a fake. Even if you're doing sub-15k.
Even if you don't have a single skill slotted and just spam light attacks, you're not a fake. You suck big time in that case and are worthy of being kicked for that, but you're still not a fake.
I know people are trying to use this "fake DPS" nonsense to justify their own fake tanking/healing, but I'm not going to let that fly. Even if we look at this just on a practical level, DPSes are a dime a dozen. You get a bad one and they are easily replaced if need be. But a lying fake tank or healer is outright group sabotage and takes a long time to correct.Edited by Glurin on September 22, 2019 9:45PM"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."1 -
GreenhaloX✭✭✭✭✭
✭My PUG experience are always with 1 or 2 coming into vet DLC dungeons not knowing mech. Makes for a long dungeon run. There are plethora of guides for every single dungeons on youtube. Take the time to look at it and get familiarized with the mech before you come into a non-guildmates learning random PUG run. No hard..1 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I have to concur with what others have said here. The only way these fake tanks/healers will learn is if everyone gets on board and kicks them as soon as they are found out.
The biggest issue right now is that they gut the damage potential of tanks with each patch. I got a warden tank, decided to finish Elsweyr properly today...I spend no less then 1 hour in a public dungeon to complete one quest. Surviving is fine, but the damage done really puts the fun down on playing a tank. I seriously considered going back to dps and accept a longer dungeon queue...So the fake tanks and healers will keep excisting untill tanks and healers can solo stuff more easy.
If you were wearing your tanking gear and using your tanking skills -- why? If not, why was it so hard to kill things?0
