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YES! A VIABLE HYBRID BUILD? THANK YOU ZOS! I AM SO EXCITED FOR THIS!
Nyladreas
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DISCLAIMER: This post is majorly based on a PVP perspective, as I am not sure whether this would beat any setups in PvE.
I just want to say....
I am SO happy for New Moon Acolyte set:
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical and Spell Critical
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage and Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 1487 Physical Penetration and Spell Penetration
(5 items) Adds 481 Weapon Damage and Spell Damage. Increase the cost of your active abilities by 5%.
Finally some new good direction in terms of hybrid builds. It's a sort of hope shining in the distance for now.
It tells me that Zenimax has yet not completely buried the hybrid spec idea!!!!!!!
Combine it with a set like Shacklebraker
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery, Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) Adds 2000 Maximum Stamina, Adds 2000 Maximum Magicka
or Innate Axiom
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(4 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical, Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) Adds 400 Spell and Weapon Damage to your Class abilities.
Then Pick a Dark Elf:
Dynamic Rank III: Increases Max Magicka and Max Stamina by 1875
Ruination Rank III: Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 258
Get bitten and become a Vampire:
Supernatural Recovery Rank II: Increases Magicka and Stamina recovery by 10%.
AND THEN Pick the Lover Mundus Stone:
Increases Physical and Spell Penetration by 2752
(Up to 4196 with 7 Legendary Divine Traits)
...and you have some very interesting and functional hybrid build. Just gotta find a good matching Monster set for this and you're good to go!
Grundwulf:
(1 item) Adds 833 Weapon & Spell Critical
(2 item) Whenever you deal critical damage, restore 1000 Magicka or Stamina, whichever maximum is higher. You also gain 500 of the other resource. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.
**for really good sustain if you wanna run pure melee weapons or pure magicka weapons!
Balorg:
(1 item) Adds 129 Weapon & Spell Damage
(2 items) When you use an Ultimate ability, you gain Weapon Damage and Spell Damage for 10 seconds equal to twice the amount of total Ultimate consumed.
**for even more Damage Boost!
Or any of the defensive monster sets because yes... You WILL be squishy, although Heavy Armor already seems like THE BEST candidate for a hybrid build
! YAY FOR REAL BATTLEMAGES!
I am SO BLOODY EXCITED!
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert THANK YOU SO MUCH AND PLEASE NERF-PROOF THESE! DON'T LET THE NOOBS DESTROY THIS WITH THEIR WHINE!
Edited by Nyladreas on September 19, 2019 6:12PM I just want to say....
I am SO happy for New Moon Acolyte set:
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical and Spell Critical
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage and Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 1487 Physical Penetration and Spell Penetration
(5 items) Adds 481 Weapon Damage and Spell Damage. Increase the cost of your active abilities by 5%.
Finally some new good direction in terms of hybrid builds. It's a sort of hope shining in the distance for now.
It tells me that Zenimax has yet not completely buried the hybrid spec idea!!!!!!!
Combine it with a set like Shacklebraker
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery, Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) Adds 2000 Maximum Stamina, Adds 2000 Maximum Magicka
or Innate Axiom
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(4 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical, Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) Adds 400 Spell and Weapon Damage to your Class abilities.
Then Pick a Dark Elf:
Dynamic Rank III: Increases Max Magicka and Max Stamina by 1875
Ruination Rank III: Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 258
Get bitten and become a Vampire:
Supernatural Recovery Rank II: Increases Magicka and Stamina recovery by 10%.
AND THEN Pick the Lover Mundus Stone:
Increases Physical and Spell Penetration by 2752
(Up to 4196 with 7 Legendary Divine Traits)
...and you have some very interesting and functional hybrid build. Just gotta find a good matching Monster set for this and you're good to go!
Grundwulf:
(1 item) Adds 833 Weapon & Spell Critical
(2 item) Whenever you deal critical damage, restore 1000 Magicka or Stamina, whichever maximum is higher. You also gain 500 of the other resource. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.
**for really good sustain if you wanna run pure melee weapons or pure magicka weapons!
Balorg:
(1 item) Adds 129 Weapon & Spell Damage
(2 items) When you use an Ultimate ability, you gain Weapon Damage and Spell Damage for 10 seconds equal to twice the amount of total Ultimate consumed.
**for even more Damage Boost!
Or any of the defensive monster sets because yes... You WILL be squishy, although Heavy Armor already seems like THE BEST candidate for a hybrid build
! YAY FOR REAL BATTLEMAGES!I am SO BLOODY EXCITED!
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert THANK YOU SO MUCH AND PLEASE NERF-PROOF THESE! DON'T LET THE NOOBS DESTROY THIS WITH THEIR WHINE!
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Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am running hybrid on PTS with almost same set up, it's good. But pure mag or Stam still out perform itEdited by Casterial on September 19, 2019 6:08PMDaggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
Animation Cancelling21 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I am running hybrid on PTS with almost same set up, it's good. But pure mag or Stam still out perform it
Yes I can imagine that's still the case, the only thing we're missing now is some sort of armor skill line or passives that would support a hybrid setup... and of course... A CP system that isn't so forcefully one sided in terms of damage type.6 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Even without CP your max resources will always be lower than a pure build, meaning damage will always be lower.
So I still don't see a hybrid being better than a pure build for dealing damage - especially in PvE (where pure damage is even more important)9 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Even without CP your max resources will always be lower than a pure build, meaning damage will always be lower.
So I still don't see a hybrid being better than a pure build for dealing damage - especially in PvE (where pure damage is even more important)
I can see that, however, that statement isn't always true. This is an entirely different situation but I have many builds that don't always go for just super high pure damage. I have made very successful builds that don't even have the full 64 points in their main resource.
Anyways, I just hope Zenimax finds a way to give us a fully viable working hybrid one day. This is already a good sign!
Weapon and Rune/Book/Orb skill line next expansion?!Edited by Nyladreas on September 19, 2019 6:24PM1 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I was actually thinking of similar setup.
Just swap Shacklebraker with Ancient Dragonguard (other new crafting set):
2 – 1206 Max Health
3 – 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
4 – 833 Weapon and Spell Critical
5 – Gain 300 Weapon and Spell Damage while health is over 50%. Gain 3460 bonus Physical and Spell Resistance while health is 50% or less.
Also I was thinking of using Argonian instead of Dark Elf and as a monster set to use Molag Kena set:
(1 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(2 items) When you deal damage with 2 consecutive Light Attacks you trigger Overkill for 6 seconds, which increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 516 but also increases the cost of your abilities by 20%.
Technically with Argonian you would have better resource management, so you could use 3x Triune jewellery, 1pc with potion cooldown and other 2 with weapon / spell dmg or mag / stam recovery or additional potion cooldown.
Also I am pretty sure you could get away without Vampire.
Not that this is optimal DPS build at all, but could be quite fun to use Dual wiled / bow & destro staff bar setup.
Only thing I am not sure is what armour would be better.
5 pcs Heavy + 1 pcs light + 1pcs medium ?
Or:
3 pcs light + 3 pcs medium + 2 pcs heavy ? (I know that is weird, but seeing hybrid to be VIABLE is also weird.)
btw. I was planing to use tri-stat food.Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on September 19, 2019 6:27PM5 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »I was actually thinking of similar setup.
Just swap Shacklebraker with Ancient Dragonguard (other new crafting set):
2 – 1206 Max Health
3 – 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
4 – 833 Weapon and Spell Critical
5 – Gain 300 Weapon and Spell Damage while health is over 50%. Gain 3460 bonus Physical and Spell Resistance while health is 50% or less.
Also I was thinking of using Argonian instead of Dark Elf and as a monster set to use Molag Kena set:
(1 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(2 items) When you deal damage with 2 consecutive Light Attacks you trigger Overkill for 6 seconds, which increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 516 but also increases the cost of your abilities by 20%.
Technically with Argonian you would have better resource management, so you could use 3x Triune jewellery, 1pc with potion cooldown and other 2 with weapon / spell dmg or mag / stam recovery or additional potion cooldown.
Not that this is optimal DPS build at all, but could be quite fun to use Dual wiled / bow & destro staff bar setup.
Only thing I am not sure is what armour would be better.
5 pcs Heavy + 1 pcs light + 1pcs medium ?
Or:
3 pcs light + 3 pcs medium + 2 pcs heavy ? (I know that is weird, but seeing hybrid to be VIABLE is also weird.)
btw. I was planing to use tri-stat food.
WOAH DUDE, THAT'S A GOOD IDEA TOO! Now that's thinking outside of the box that I LIKE! I gotta try this out too, maybe that would work even better since we need a CRAPTON of damage to supplement for resource loss!
I would think that as it currently stands.... Heavy armor is your best bet. You aren't going to get any significant boosts from either armor type as all the good ones are locked behind 5 piece requirements on both Light and Medium if you go with just a couple of pieces. However, you can easily utilise the Heavy Armor Stam+Mag recovery on hit, extra health and armor for survival (since this build is fully glass-canon in concept), and the Heavy Attack recovery can be well used too.
Go 5H+1M+1L and you get the best stats all around.
I MEAN YES I'D LOVE TO GET SOME EXTRA DAMAGE ARMOR TYPE FOR A HYBRID BUT THAT'S PROBABLY NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN
Edited by Nyladreas on September 19, 2019 6:38PM4 -
KappaKid83✭✭✭✭✭I think if you are looking to run something with some survivability and also have some damage then running New Moon with shacklebreaker is probably the best way to go about it. Can put some pressure on your opponent and have resources enough to be mobile and cast shields.
Note: I am looking at this from a purely Mag Sorc standpoint.0 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Don't underestimate Imperial sustain. It's better than Argonians if you only look at the numbers and they have better raw stats too. They just don't have an "oh-***" button like Argonians do. But then again, if you trust the maths, Imperials will need theirs not as often as Argonians.
With Hybrid builds becoming a thing, ZOS has a lot more room for Alchemy to expand into. Potions that grant Savagery and Prophecy for example or Spell and Weapon power.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.2 -
Red_Feather✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭That is good to hear. I have been relying on Pelinal's Aptitude set exclusively and it's taking a lot of options away from me.0 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Red_Feather wrote: »That is good to hear. I have been relying on Pelinal's Aptitude set exclusively and it's taking a lot of options away from me.
Pelinals is honestly such a shame. If only it did more than convert just damage. At least allow penetration or crit to carry over too. Or sustain. On its own its just a meh waste of potential.1 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Unless they revert the option to make skills scale off their base stat, or reintroduce diminishing returns, hybrid builds will never be anything other than flavour except perhaps for utility tanks. A DD or a healer will always benefit more from maximising one stat instead of spreading across two, and concentrating Champion Points on a few stars (damage types, stat recovery, etc.) instead of also spreading them out.Edited by daemonios on September 19, 2019 10:50PM4 -
Red_Feather✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Unless they revert the option to make skills scale off their base stat, or reintroduce diminishing returns, hybrid builds will never be anything other than flavour except perhaps for utility tanks. A DD or a healer will always benefit more from maximising one stat instead of spreading across two, and concentrating Champion Points on a few stars (damage types, stat recovery, etc.) instead of also spreading them out.
The disclaimer says this is for PvP. We know PvE is ultimately about min/max the shallowest role possible.8 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Red_Feather wrote: »Unless they revert the option to make skills scale off their base stat, or reintroduce diminishing returns, hybrid builds will never be anything other than flavour except perhaps for utility tanks. A DD or a healer will always benefit more from maximising one stat instead of spreading across two, and concentrating Champion Points on a few stars (damage types, stat recovery, etc.) instead of also spreading them out.
The disclaimer says this is for PvP. We know PvE is ultimately about min/max the shallowest role possible.
I realise that. But can you call a build hybrid because a magic user can block and dodge a few more times, or a stamina user can slot a few magicka skills? Or do you think you can actually perform better than a build that specialises in one or the other? If facing an equally skilled opponent, you will hit for less, heal for less, and possibly sustain for less due to spread out stats, CP and buffs. Granted I don't PvP much, but I'm a bit skeptical of the claim about hybrid builds.3 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Even without CP your max resources will always be lower than a pure build, meaning damage will always be lower.
So I still don't see a hybrid being better than a pure build for dealing damage - especially in PvE (where pure damage is even more important)
Not true. With pelinal and stacking weapon damage, you can do pretty well.2 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You may use similar even now, key word here is ONSLAUGHT. Main problem of hybrids was that if you want to use magicka offensively, it was extremely hard to get penetration without completely screwing your other stats. Onslaught fixed this. Hybrids are actually very fun to play in U23, but of course when you will meet somebody really good with min-maxed meta PVP build, well, you will understand that hybrid is still suboptimal.3 -
Nevasca✭✭✭✭✭It tells me that Zenimax has yet not completely buried the hybrid spec idea!!!!!!!
lmao. They just made the sets that way so both Magicka builds and Stamina builds can use the same set with the same benefits, it's not a intended buff to hybrids. The true hybrids in this game are tanks. Also even pure Stamina builds still use magicka skills so technically everyone is a "hybrid".5 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Even without CP your max resources will always be lower than a pure build, meaning damage will always be lower.
So I still don't see a hybrid being better than a pure build for dealing damage - especially in PvE (where pure damage is even more important)
This very much. I doubt Zos will homogenize the game to the point a hybrid build will do just as much DPS as a pure build, hence truly be viable. Though it is great OP is happy.0 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Even without CP your max resources will always be lower than a pure build, meaning damage will always be lower.
So I still don't see a hybrid being better than a pure build for dealing damage - especially in PvE (where pure damage is even more important)
This very much. I doubt Zos will homogenize the game to the point a hybrid build will do just as much DPS as a pure build, hence truly be viable. Though it is great OP is happy.
Well if ZOS made hybrids the meta everyone would have the same exact build with just a couple tiny tweaks due to class skills.
That would suck a great deal, but bringing a hybrid up to the par with most builds is really great as long as they don't overdo it.Edited by Nyladreas on September 20, 2019 5:00AM2 -
Calboy✭✭✭✭✭It's a terrible hybrid set. The worst issue with hybrids is sustain, this set makes that issue even bigger. And your damage and healing will be no where close to a pure build, all for maybe one or two offensive/healing abilities from the "off start"Edited by Calboy on September 20, 2019 5:40AM4 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It's a terrible hybrid set. The worst issue with hybrids is sustain, this set makes that issue even bigger. And your damage and healing will be no where close to a pure build, all for maybe one or two offensive/healing abilities from the "off start"
That's why grundwulf or as someone said argonian would help this build immensely.
Do it on a nightblade or DK and I think sustain isn't going to be that much of an issue.
Honestly grundwulf is one of the most underappreciated sets especially for Nightblades. It gives you so much sustain and the crit isn't a waste thx to the nightblade passives.Edited by Nyladreas on September 20, 2019 6:14AM0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
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This was just a quick prototype setup.Edited by starkerealm on September 20, 2019 6:24AM7 -
Lyserus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sounds like finally I can start building my silverhand rp build that can actually do something
A dragonknight that uses fire to kill vampires and poison to kill werewolves and fighter guild skill to kill daedra overall....
no way being overpowered but it sounds like it will not be crap in pvp with the upcoming patch0 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
This was just a quick prototype setup.
LOOK AT THAT STAT TABLE! AMAZING!
I'm guessing the damage attributes are unbuffed?
Dual wield swords, nirn + sharpened? I feel like that 5% damage could be used again as it once was.
Also, What monster set did you use?
@starkerealm Edited by Nyladreas on September 20, 2019 8:02AM0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
This was just a quick prototype setup.
LOOK AT THAT STAT TABLE! AMAZING!
What monster set did you use?@starkerealm
Valk.0 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
This was just a quick prototype setup.
LOOK AT THAT STAT TABLE! AMAZING!
What monster set did you use?@starkerealm
Valk.
Oh okay I'd still like to test it out with Kena/Balorg(Damage) or Grundwulf (Sustain).
See how far can you really take it!Edited by Nyladreas on September 20, 2019 8:09AM0 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »u dont rly pvp do u?
Yes I do pvp in fact. And all the time.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
This was just a quick prototype setup.
LOOK AT THAT STAT TABLE! AMAZING!
What monster set did you use?@starkerealm
Valk.
Oh okay I'd still like to test it out with Kena, Balorg or Grundwulf.
See how far can you really take it!
On anything other than a Warden, Kena's a recipe for disaster. Might be able to make it work with a DK, but that's still going to be a hard resource strain. Balorg won't show up on the character sheet. Though, you can do the math to figure out what you'd get pretty easily.
Grundwulf would help with resources, though, again, it wouldn't show up on the sheet.
If I was going to actually test this seriously, I'd start with a NB, Sorc, or Templar. Probably the Sorc.1
