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Anyone else's toons connected to lore characters?

Aideian
Aideian
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I know the tittle is a little confusing but for example most of my characters are namned son of, like my favorite one is son of hircine and I have the beast skin and hircines champion as the tittle. Besides them I have one night blade namned voryn dagoth and my main tank is prince of madness.
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    My main character, Varanis Arano, borrows her surname from the Arano family we meet on Solstheim in Skyrim's Dragonborn DLC.
  • Ye_Olde_Crowe
    Ye_Olde_Crowe
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    My Dunmer nightblade's Name is Deval Sadri. As Sadri is a rather common last name among Dunmer, he might be related to some other current and future NPCs of that name... but I haven't given this much thought yet.
    My DK Octavia Civello is a progenitor of Oblivion's Giovanni Civello. Or so I believe xD.
    Edited by Ye_Olde_Crowe on September 18, 2019 12:25PM
    PC EU.

    1% PvP (Player vs. Player) - 4% PvD (Player vs. Door) - 10% PvE (Player vs. Environment, where Environment == Dungeon) - 15% PvR (Player vs. Role) - 15% PvC (Player vs. Craft) - 25% PvO (Player vs. Overland) - 30% PvH (Player vs. House)
  • TheImperfect
    TheImperfect
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    I have Hala Hlaalu a descendant of the Hlaalu.
  • Starlock
    Starlock
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    When trying to come up with a last name for my orc, I decided to make her the ancestor of Urag. You know, the crotchety librarian in Skyrim? Love that guy.
    I play ESO on XBOX NA
    Remember: Elder Scrolls Online appeals to a diverse customer base that view and play the game in different ways.
    Regardless of how you play, be aware Elder Scrolls Online is play-to-pay game.
    Use at your own risk and learn at https://www.psychologyofgames.com
  • Ilsabet
    Ilsabet
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    I tend to avoid connections like that because then I don't have to worry about tripping over contradictions or looking like I'm trying to Mary Sue my way into making my character seem more important. Some people can make it work but it's easier for me to not even try. :D
    Ilsabet Menard - DC Breton Nightblade archer
    Katarin Auclair - DC Breton Warden healer & ice mage
    Lollygags-Where-She-Likes - EP Argonian Templar healer
    Gurtha gra-Margaz - DC Orc Sorcerer stormflailer
    My characters and their overly elaborate backstories
    Ilsabet's Headcanon
    PC NA
  • Watchdog
    Watchdog
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    Not directly, as in claiming direct lineage or close family relationship.

    Two of my characters are Dunmer cousins and they proudly bear the name of House Indoril. One of them, Danna Indoril, is a Clockwork Apostle, who was sent outside the drome to conduct some research by Provost Varuni Arvel herself:
    wMOJFPc.png
    Member of Alith Legion: https://www.alithlegion.com
  • 2Weenies
    2Weenies
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    I've an Imperial Dragon Knight named Canoscia Cosades. For my fellow Morrowind dweebs, she shares the same surname as the Imperial Blade Agent you first encounter in Balmora, Caius Cosades. Is she an ancestor? Maybe, maybe not. It's all more for fun and little jabs at things further down the line.
    "We're watching you, scum." ~ Every Ordinator who witnesses my social media commentary
  • Cygemai_Hlervu
    Cygemai_Hlervu
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    The Hlervus and the Hlervu Ancestral tomb are found both in TES III and ESO. So, yeah, there is some connection.
  • NotaDaedraWorshipper
    NotaDaedraWorshipper
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    I tend to avoid that like a plague.
    Being someone who enjoys roleplaying with others when it comes to mmos, and there it's usually seen as bad to have a character be connected to important lore figures or have high positions in power. Mostly because you will definitely get contradictions and things that doesn't make any sense if people do. Can't have several people being the Vestige for example.

    If you are roleplaying by your lonesome then I guess you could, though I still avoid it there. I just don't see the point and often find it in bad taste or all out cringey. I just find it so much more enjoyable to make a character with a background and heritage of your own making.
    No child of a daedric prince or someone from the Tharn family or whatnot for me. No, I rather make some underdog, since I love them with a passion. Say, a former soldier of the Imperial Legion who managed to avoid the Planemeld and now has to survive and suffer not only suspicion from others but also manage the loss of everything she/he fought for. Will s/he succeed to travel to Skingrad and find out if their merchant parents are still alive or are they just another casuality of the war and deadra invasion? Who knows.
    If a character do happen to end up with the same surname as some lore character (Or a fellow roleplayer!) then I jusually go with that they are not related, they simply have the same surname. It's bond to happen at some point.
    [Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!
  • Ajaxandriel
    Ajaxandriel
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    Arguably there can be as much Vestiges as the actual game let us witness there are - not like the story we are told ...by who, after all? another unreliable teller, that Prophet.
    (That said, none of my character is a vestige nor even a soulshriven, because I disliked that story to begin with, and all its main-quest storytelling, that was quite bad for a MMO RPG.)

    About characters, such links with lore NPCs are always risky (regarding consistency).

    From a (lonesome) fanfiction standpoint, you may contradict some future development of that NPC background.
    From a (social) roleplay standpoint, if someone else had the same idea about the same NPC, you'll contradict each other. So, the more popular the NPC is, the more risky.

    Most of my characters don't have such connections. When they do, I keep alternative explanations and options of credible retcons for the future, in case of the official background moves on. 2 characters among the 17 actually.

    - Azothos Sadras, from the family that the elder scrolls prophecy promises it would become the 5th House of Morrowind in a distant future. I guess there are quite some "other" PC who are played as Sadras masters/grandmasters out there, but as far as it's unique in the french community my immersion is safe x) And... still no Sadras NPC within sight even after Morrowind expansion, but who knows, the telvanni peninsula and isles are yet to be displayed... (and it would make sense for me if there is one there, since my character is allied with the telvanni)

    - Jendaya al-Gilane, from the obscure but canon kindgom of Hammerfell, Gilane. Maybe she's a heir magnifica and a true deprived princess, maybe she's a mere usurper, maybe I'll "discover" the truth myself about her past in a future DLC which would release this city one day. The connection with NPCs who haven't been written in the game yet is of course unresolved.
    TESO:Triskelion - forum RP, guilde francophone
    Ajaxandriel - haut-elfe gardien 50
    Altarya - haute-elfe templière 50
    Angelith - elfe des bois gardienne 50
    Antarius Scorpio - impérial chevalier-dragon 50
    Artémidore de Corbeaulieu - bréton lame noire 50
    Azothos Sadras - elfe noir sorcier 50
    Dorguldun gro-Arash - orque sorcier 50
    Hjarnar - nordique sorcier 50
    Jendaya al-Gilane - rougegarde chevalier-dragon 50
    Sabbathnazar Ullikummi - elfe noir chevalier-dragon 50
    Tahajmi - khajiit sorcière 50
    Zadzadak - gobelin nécromancien 50
    Zandoga - rougegarde chevalier-dragon 50

  • Cygemai_Hlervu
    Cygemai_Hlervu
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    ...none of my character is a vestige nor even a soulshriven, because I disliked that story to begin with, and all its main-quest storytelling, that was quite bad for a MMO RPG...

    How would you explain your characters' inability to die then otherwise than pointing at game mechanics issue?
  • NotaDaedraWorshipper
    NotaDaedraWorshipper
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    ...none of my character is a vestige nor even a soulshriven, because I disliked that story to begin with, and all its main-quest storytelling, that was quite bad for a MMO RPG...

    How would you explain your characters' inability to die then otherwise than pointing at game mechanics issue?

    Likely with the explaination that their character doesn't die.

    None of my character is the Vestige either.
    Edited by NotaDaedraWorshipper on October 1, 2019 3:27PM
    [Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!
  • Watchdog
    Watchdog
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    ...none of my character is a vestige nor even a soulshriven, because I disliked that story to begin with, and all its main-quest storytelling, that was quite bad for a MMO RPG...

    How would you explain your characters' inability to die then otherwise than pointing at game mechanics issue?

    Likely with the explaination that their character doesn't die.

    None of my character is the Vestige either.

    Exactly. Neither of my 15 characters is the Vestige, not even a Vestige.

    They are mostly adventures, treasure hunters, members of the Fighters Guild, Undaunted and such. And a Clockwork Apostle, and a Baandari Ohmes Khajiit dancer and entertainer.
    Member of Alith Legion: https://www.alithlegion.com
  • Cygemai_Hlervu
    Cygemai_Hlervu
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    Watchdog wrote: »
    ...none of my character is a vestige nor even a soulshriven, because I disliked that story to begin with, and all its main-quest storytelling, that was quite bad for a MMO RPG...

    How would you explain your characters' inability to die then otherwise than pointing at game mechanics issue?

    Likely with the explaination that their character doesn't die.

    None of my character is the Vestige either.

    Exactly. Neither of my 15 characters is the Vestige, not even a Vestige.

    They are mostly adventures, treasure hunters, members of the Fighters Guild, Undaunted and such. And a Clockwork Apostle, and a Baandari Ohmes Khajiit dancer and entertainer.

    Guys, I might have asked it the wrong way.. I understand that your characters can be whoever you make them and/or imagine them to be. I mean, how do you explain their deaths if such occur due to pvp, pve, falling or slaughterfish bites? You may say, that they haven't died at all because they are so mighty and this makes them invincible. But I'm speaking of a possibility to revive at the wayshrine not being a Vestige at all. That's the point.
  • NotaDaedraWorshipper
    NotaDaedraWorshipper
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    Watchdog wrote: »
    ...none of my character is a vestige nor even a soulshriven, because I disliked that story to begin with, and all its main-quest storytelling, that was quite bad for a MMO RPG...

    How would you explain your characters' inability to die then otherwise than pointing at game mechanics issue?

    Likely with the explaination that their character doesn't die.

    None of my character is the Vestige either.

    Exactly. Neither of my 15 characters is the Vestige, not even a Vestige.

    They are mostly adventures, treasure hunters, members of the Fighters Guild, Undaunted and such. And a Clockwork Apostle, and a Baandari Ohmes Khajiit dancer and entertainer.

    Guys, I might have asked it the wrong way.. I understand that your characters can be whoever you make them and/or imagine them to be. I mean, how do you explain their deaths if such occur due to pvp, pve, falling or slaughterfish bites? You may say, that they haven't died at all because they are so mighty and this makes them invincible. But I'm speaking of a possibility to revive at the wayshrine not being a Vestige at all. That's the point.

    Because those deaths are not something that is happening to my characters IC (In character). That's game mechanics that is happening OOC (Out of character). My characters aren't doing a random battleground for a motif, or crafting writs, or accidentally fall into slaughterfish when exploring to unlock some more dyes. That's me doing my daily errands in an mmo.

    They didn't avoid death because they were "so mighty it makes them invincible", they didn't die because those things did not happen to them. They are mortals of Tamriel, they can't revive or travel at wayshrines, they don't even know what that are besides weird structures that can be found here and there.
    [Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!
  • Cygemai_Hlervu
    Cygemai_Hlervu
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    Watchdog wrote: »
    ...none of my character is a vestige nor even a soulshriven, because I disliked that story to begin with, and all its main-quest storytelling, that was quite bad for a MMO RPG...

    How would you explain your characters' inability to die then otherwise than pointing at game mechanics issue?

    Likely with the explaination that their character doesn't die.

    None of my character is the Vestige either.

    Exactly. Neither of my 15 characters is the Vestige, not even a Vestige.

    They are mostly adventures, treasure hunters, members of the Fighters Guild, Undaunted and such. And a Clockwork Apostle, and a Baandari Ohmes Khajiit dancer and entertainer.

    Guys, I might have asked it the wrong way.. I understand that your characters can be whoever you make them and/or imagine them to be. I mean, how do you explain their deaths if such occur due to pvp, pve, falling or slaughterfish bites? You may say, that they haven't died at all because they are so mighty and this makes them invincible. But I'm speaking of a possibility to revive at the wayshrine not being a Vestige at all. That's the point.

    Because those deaths are not something that is happening to my characters IC (In character). That's game mechanics that is happening OOC (Out of character). My characters aren't doing a random battleground for a motif, or crafting writs, or accidentally fall into slaughterfish when exploring to unlock some more dyes. That's me doing my daily errands in an mmo.

    They didn't avoid death because they were "so mighty it makes them invincible", they didn't die because those things did not happen to them. They are mortals of Tamriel, they can't revive or travel at wayshrines, they don't even know what that are besides weird structures that can be found here and there.

    Ah.. Again that different way of role-playing.. Those "in-character", "out of character".. We just play different games. Anyway, I understand what you guys mean, thank you.
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    Yes, but not ESO lore.

    For example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lymond_Chronicles
  • Aideian
    Aideian
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    I don't take it as serious as them having an effect on other characters, future characters or contradictions that's taking it a little to serious for me where you're trying to be completely lore friendly which I do respect however, Rp isn't the same for everyone some don't take it as serious I mean I have a character named voryn dagoth and prince of madness it's kind of obvious I'm not trying to be lore friendly. However I don't see how it's really that big of a deal to have some what of a connection to a lore character if you are taking it more serious and if someone gets upset at that, that's kind of like being a Rp elitist lol just because you're character isn't 100% original.
  • Cygemai_Hlervu
    Cygemai_Hlervu
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    Aideian wrote: »
    ... I have a character named voryn dagoth and prince of madness it's kind of obvious I'm not trying to be lore friendly...

    Haha, nice names :D. But why do you think it's lore unfriendly? The inhabitants of that world know you as the Vestige, but the game also gives you the option to name your alter ego differently because Vestige is not a name. According to Todd's recent Pax East interview, everything you see on the screen is canon. Moreover there are plenty of NPCs who call you exactly the name you create yourself. Yeah, that might be an odd name, but that's a name after all and it is not unusual and actually is irrelevant - look at those real life names some people have :p.
  • Aideian
    Aideian
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    I say it's lore unfriendly because voryn dagoth is already a lore character and prince of madness I could get get away with I guess because that's just a nick name for sheogorath.
  • Ajaxandriel
    Ajaxandriel
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    ...none of my character is a vestige nor even a soulshriven, because I disliked that story to begin with, and all its main-quest storytelling, that was quite bad for a MMO RPG...

    How would you explain your characters' inability to die then otherwise than pointing at game mechanics issue?

    Raw plot armor. XD
    I mean, how do you explain their deaths if such occur due to pvp, pve, falling or slaughterfish bites? You may say, that they haven't died at all because they are so mighty and this makes them invincible. But I'm speaking of a possibility to revive at the wayshrine not being a Vestige at all. That's the point.
    I'm not the OOC roleplayer type like NotDaedraWorshipper but even so, you can "interpret" each game event in an original "story" event, some kind of "headcanon" story.

    The revival mechanic can be the coma after a faint or heavy harm and healing be an unspecified NPC who brought you to a holy shrine.

    Or in a harder interpretation, it's the time flow resetting itself in a former state in the tale of your story (like, mini-dragon break yeah), so your character is not even aware of what happened.
    Aideian wrote: »
    I say it's lore unfriendly because voryn dagoth is already a lore character and prince of madness I could get get away with I guess because that's just a nick name for sheogorath.

    I'd say the choice was not the smartest on earth rp-wise, but that said, your character can perfectly be a wannabe / usurper of Dagoth Ur (Same for other PCs with names and nicknames of canon NPCs)
    Edited by Ajaxandriel on October 7, 2019 2:22AM
    TESO:Triskelion - forum RP, guilde francophone
    Ajaxandriel - haut-elfe gardien 50
    Altarya - haute-elfe templière 50
    Angelith - elfe des bois gardienne 50
    Antarius Scorpio - impérial chevalier-dragon 50
    Artémidore de Corbeaulieu - bréton lame noire 50
    Azothos Sadras - elfe noir sorcier 50
    Dorguldun gro-Arash - orque sorcier 50
    Hjarnar - nordique sorcier 50
    Jendaya al-Gilane - rougegarde chevalier-dragon 50
    Sabbathnazar Ullikummi - elfe noir chevalier-dragon 50
    Tahajmi - khajiit sorcière 50
    Zadzadak - gobelin nécromancien 50
    Zandoga - rougegarde chevalier-dragon 50

  • Zacuel
    Zacuel
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    My dark elf gets refered to as N'wah a lot. (Whatever that means)

    Must have a striking resemblance to an amazingly awesome dark elf by that house name.
  • Cygemai_Hlervu
    Cygemai_Hlervu
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    .. I'm not the OOC roleplayer type like NotDaedraWorshipper but even so, you can "interpret" each game event in an original "story" event, some kind of "headcanon" story...

    The revival mechanic can be the coma after a faint or heavy harm and healing be an unspecified NPC who brought you to a holy shrine.

    Or in a harder interpretation, it's the time flow resetting itself in a former state in the tale of your story (like, mini-dragon break yeah), so your character is not even aware of what happened.

    That headcanon is nothing to me but a pure senseless imagination. I'm not interested in those dreams people live inside a certain game universe inventing backstories to their alter egos while the game does not give them such an option to write it and make it readable to everyone, inventing those ranks and titles which exist only in their minds and so on. Those ideas do not reflect on the screen. The same way I can imagine all the same things but I see no reason to do that. I'm interested in the game I play, not the one someone (including myself) imagines within it. Moreover I'm surprised the majority if not all players really play this game dividing it into pieces: some play PvP only, the others do PvE only, the majority of the players' role-playing is actually based on headcanon but not on the roles the game gives us to choose from, some stick to the lore while others don't.

    That leads to some things I view as a real crap and abomination I've never seen before in Tamriel like those Orc Necromancers dressed pink and willing to join Mannimarco after all that n'wah has done to them. Or, say, those Dunmer fighting for the Covenant in Cyrodiil after all those Daggerfall fetchers did to us in Stonefalls. I guess many of them would even join Dagoth Ur if such an option could ever be given to them in TES III (I'm not speaking of those unofficial addons). I played a Redoran Sorcerer in TES III but here in ESO I cannot join House Redoran - so I don't play this role. But others do by stealing those motifs and pretending to be Redorans.. Well, only in ESO I finally understood why Dunmer view those of their kin who came from abroad as outlanders.. That is all because of that headcanon and their own fantasies they actually play. I haven't ever met even a single player here just like me who would just play this game as a whole. So I'm not interested in headcanon explanations of how do those characters supposed to actually revive at wayshrines before Mannimarco sacrifices them. I hoped to hear in-game based answer. Anyway, I understand it is useless because those guys are living in the world of their dreams within the world we are all actually playing.
    Edited by Cygemai_Hlervu on October 7, 2019 3:14AM
  • Zacuel
    Zacuel
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    .. I'm not the OOC roleplayer type like NotDaedraWorshipper but even so, you can "interpret" each game event in an original "story" event, some kind of "headcanon" story...

    The revival mechanic can be the coma after a faint or heavy harm and healing be an unspecified NPC who brought you to a holy shrine.

    Or in a harder interpretation, it's the time flow resetting itself in a former state in the tale of your story (like, mini-dragon break yeah), so your character is not even aware of what happened.

    That headcanon is nothing to me but a pure senseless imagination. I'm not interested in those dreams people live inside a certain game universe inventing backstories to their alter egos while the game does not give them such an option to write it and make it readable to everyone, inventing those ranks and titles which exist only in their minds and so on. Those ideas do not reflect on the screen. The same way I can imagine all the same things but I see no reason to do that. I'm interested in the game I play, not the one someone (including myself) imagines within it. Moreover I'm surprised the majority if not all players really play this game dividing it into pieces: some play PvP only, the others do PvE only, the majority of the players' role-playing is actually based on headcanon but not on the roles the game gives us to choose from, some stick to the lore while others don't.

    That leads to some things I view as a real crap and abomination I've never seen before in Tamriel like those Orc Necromancers dressed pink and willing to join Mannimarco after all that n'wah has done to them. Or, say, those Dunmer fighting for the Covenant in Cyrodiil after all those Daggerfall fetchers did to us in Stonefalls. I guess many of them would even join Dagoth Ur if such an option could ever be given to them in TES III (I'm not speaking of those unofficial addons). I played a Redoran Sorcerer in TES III but here in ESO I cannot join House Redoran - so I don't play this role. But others do by stealing those motifs and pretending to be Redorans.. Well, only in ESO I finally understood why Dunmer view those of their kin who came from abroad as outlanders.. That is all because of that headcanon and their own fantasies they actually play. I haven't ever met even a single player here just like me who would just play this game as a whole. So I'm not interested in headcanon explanations of how do those characters supposed to actually revive at wayshrines before Mannimarco sacrifices them. I hoped to hear in-game based answer. Anyway, I understand it is useless because those guys are living in the world of their dreams within the world we are all actually playing.

    *Slow clap*

    Well put.

    I'm still reporting you for ruining THE CRAP out of my immersion.

    *Runs away crying as everything he believed was special about his eso experience is shattered to pieces*
  • gepe87
    gepe87
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    Gepe Aren, connected to Savos Aren (Skyrim) and another Aren in ESO VVardenfell.

    Ofc a Dunmer.
    Gepe, MagSorc Pact Warlord | Gepe Indoril, MagSorc Pact General

    If you see edits on my replies: typos. English isn't my main language
  • NotaDaedraWorshipper
    NotaDaedraWorshipper
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    Zacuel wrote: »
    *Slow clap*

    Well put.

    I'm still reporting you for ruining THE CRAP out of my immersion.

    *Runs away crying as everything he believed was special about his eso experience is shattered to pieces*

    I have other words for it.
    [Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!
  • Cygemai_Hlervu
    Cygemai_Hlervu
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    Zacuel wrote: »
    .. I'm not the OOC roleplayer type like NotDaedraWorshipper but even so, you can "interpret" each game event in an original "story" event, some kind of "headcanon" story...

    The revival mechanic can be the coma after a faint or heavy harm and healing be an unspecified NPC who brought you to a holy shrine.

    Or in a harder interpretation, it's the time flow resetting itself in a former state in the tale of your story (like, mini-dragon break yeah), so your character is not even aware of what happened.

    That headcanon is nothing to me but a pure senseless imagination. I'm not interested in those dreams people live inside a certain game universe inventing backstories to their alter egos while the game does not give them such an option to write it and make it readable to everyone, inventing those ranks and titles which exist only in their minds and so on. Those ideas do not reflect on the screen. The same way I can imagine all the same things but I see no reason to do that. I'm interested in the game I play, not the one someone (including myself) imagines within it. Moreover I'm surprised the majority if not all players really play this game dividing it into pieces: some play PvP only, the others do PvE only, the majority of the players' role-playing is actually based on headcanon but not on the roles the game gives us to choose from, some stick to the lore while others don't.

    That leads to some things I view as a real crap and abomination I've never seen before in Tamriel like those Orc Necromancers dressed pink and willing to join Mannimarco after all that n'wah has done to them. Or, say, those Dunmer fighting for the Covenant in Cyrodiil after all those Daggerfall fetchers did to us in Stonefalls. I guess many of them would even join Dagoth Ur if such an option could ever be given to them in TES III (I'm not speaking of those unofficial addons). I played a Redoran Sorcerer in TES III but here in ESO I cannot join House Redoran - so I don't play this role. But others do by stealing those motifs and pretending to be Redorans.. Well, only in ESO I finally understood why Dunmer view those of their kin who came from abroad as outlanders.. That is all because of that headcanon and their own fantasies they actually play. I haven't ever met even a single player here just like me who would just play this game as a whole. So I'm not interested in headcanon explanations of how do those characters supposed to actually revive at wayshrines before Mannimarco sacrifices them. I hoped to hear in-game based answer. Anyway, I understand it is useless because those guys are living in the world of their dreams within the world we are all actually playing.

    *Slow clap*

    Well put.

    I'm still reporting you for ruining THE CRAP out of my immersion.

    *Runs away crying as everything he believed was special about his eso experience is shattered to pieces*

    Well, "crap" might be inappropriate word, of course. The game could allow players to write backstories of their characters so everyone could read it thus making those, say, pink dressed Orc Necromancers canon somehow. But I guess it does not permit us to do so exactly because of that reason of turning Tamriel into a land of freaks.Yeah, today we just see them in the streets of Vivec, but the same way as IRL, I personally consider them as freaks who are always present and who live in their own invented world still walking the one created for all of us. So the ZOS could make some options to choose for a backstory during the character creation process to make happy those who wish it but still holding it within the game universe. But anyway, there are always people who feel it never enough.. The game says to them: "You are a mighty immortal Vestige. You may join Fighters, Mages Guilds, become a Psijic, a crafter.. whatever, but you still are a hero and you may not join the Worm Cult, any of the Great Houses and etc." What do they say in response? "No, I'm a tiny Orcish girl, a retainer of House Telvanni and a member of the Worm Cult. I have a family among the NPC there, a long story of being a citizen of Alinor" and so on.. Out-of-character stuff, backstories.. They play whatever game they imagine but not the one we all actually play.

    "I killed you, you simpleton. I saw your life gutter and fade like a candle flame in a tempest. My undead servants drank your blood and I reanimated your corpse." - this is what Mannimarco told us while chained in Heart's Grief. This is what happened to us all. I wish I could kill him there for all he has done to me, but the game did not give me such an option. Somebody more kind than I am would prefer to spare him. Anyway this is the only choice the game gives us at that point of the plot. Fate (Loremaster's plan) has some other plans on him (yes, I'm aware of them). I was really surprised so many players still wish to join Mannimarco and do everything to show their allegiance to him. Yes, it is a fictional world, but it is still a world we all live in, though we call it playing it. And this is just a single example of how do I view all those guys around. The same way I view those who fights against the Tribunal and want them destroyed not understanding that the Tribunal must survive and stay powerful by any means by 3E 427 with only one purpose - to teach the Nerevarine to destroy Dagoth Ur in TES III. Well, it's an endless talk. And a pointless one I might add ;). So many men, so many minds and none will ever convince another ;).
    Edited by Cygemai_Hlervu on October 7, 2019 6:53PM
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    .. I'm not the OOC roleplayer type like NotDaedraWorshipper but even so, you can "interpret" each game event in an original "story" event, some kind of "headcanon" story...

    The revival mechanic can be the coma after a faint or heavy harm and healing be an unspecified NPC who brought you to a holy shrine.

    Or in a harder interpretation, it's the time flow resetting itself in a former state in the tale of your story (like, mini-dragon break yeah), so your character is not even aware of what happened.

    That headcanon is nothing to me but a pure senseless imagination. I'm not interested in those dreams people live inside a certain game universe inventing backstories to their alter egos while the game does not give them such an option to write it and make it readable to everyone, inventing those ranks and titles which exist only in their minds and so on. Those ideas do not reflect on the screen. The same way I can imagine all the same things but I see no reason to do that. I'm interested in the game I play, not the one someone (including myself) imagines within it. Moreover I'm surprised the majority if not all players really play this game dividing it into pieces: some play PvP only, the others do PvE only, the majority of the players' role-playing is actually based on headcanon but not on the roles the game gives us to choose from, some stick to the lore while others don't.

    That leads to some things I view as a real crap and abomination I've never seen before in Tamriel like those Orc Necromancers dressed pink and willing to join Mannimarco after all that n'wah has done to them. Or, say, those Dunmer fighting for the Covenant in Cyrodiil after all those Daggerfall fetchers did to us in Stonefalls. I guess many of them would even join Dagoth Ur if such an option could ever be given to them in TES III (I'm not speaking of those unofficial addons). I played a Redoran Sorcerer in TES III but here in ESO I cannot join House Redoran - so I don't play this role. But others do by stealing those motifs and pretending to be Redorans.. Well, only in ESO I finally understood why Dunmer view those of their kin who came from abroad as outlanders.. That is all because of that headcanon and their own fantasies they actually play. I haven't ever met even a single player here just like me who would just play this game as a whole. So I'm not interested in headcanon explanations of how do those characters supposed to actually revive at wayshrines before Mannimarco sacrifices them. I hoped to hear in-game based answer. Anyway, I understand it is useless because those guys are living in the world of their dreams within the world we are all actually playing.

    There's no in game statement of "If you haven't done the Main Quest, you can revive for X reason."

    There's just the simple "Once you've started the Main Quest, you revive because you're the soul-shriven Vestige."

    Yes, that's unsatisfying. So I'll delve a little more into it. But fair warning, I don't think there's a satisfying answer because its pitting the game's chronology up against how our new characters experience the game when we start in Chapter zones. Thanks for that, ZOS.

    Sorry. Wall of Text incoming.


    In attempting to give you a gameplay reason for why everyone can revive, I'm going to draw a distinction between the "in game chronology" and the "internal chronology of the character." This is a necessary distinction because ZOS themselves draws that distinction.

    According to ZOS, some gameplay events happen in a certain order whether or not we've experienced them yet or not (in game chronology). Also according to ZOS, characters experience some gameplay events out of chronological order due to Chapter tutorials (internal chronology of the character.) Confusingly, both are valid for roleplay, especially if you go with the "whatever happened on your screen is part of canon" Bethesda approach.


    So first, according to the "in game chronology", every character starts out as a Vestige. Despite quirks, all three Chapters assume that you are a Souless Vestige.
    Morrowind has a side quest that references your soullessness, Summerset comes after Morrowind in order to close major plot holes with Clockwork City, and Elsweyr requires you to have completed Castle of the Worm in order for Abnur Tharn to be running around.
    Moreover, certain zones must be done in order for future zones to happen, so there's a cohesive game chronology that doesnt necessarily match our character's chronology.

    Now, the "in game chronology" does not mean that quests have to be done in order since One Tamriel. Thanks to the end of the Main Quest that introduces Cadwell's Silver and Gold, we have strong evidence that ESO is taking place within a mostly stable time loop. Every zone in the game has its place in the timeline, but our characters can skip back and forth in time with minimal to major immersion problems.

    So the "in game chronology" answer is that even if you started in Elsweyr, your character is/will be/always has been the soul-shriven Vestige since its a requirement to kicking off the future events in the other storylines. At some point or another, your character becomes the Vestige regardless of whether or not you actually did the quests, and that's valid across the whole timeline.


    Now for "internal chronology of the character". Unless you roleplay as being aware of the weird nature of time around your character (possible given conversations with Sotha Sil and Spoiler NPC at the end of the MQ, but rare especially if your character hasn't done that content yet), most characters are going to take the world as it comes. Their journey starts in whatever Chapter zone tutorial they get. They don't ever have to get sacrificed by Mannimarco and become a Vestige, and thanks to ZOS, that's completely valid!

    Thanks to ZOS going with One Tamriel, its entirely possible and valid to play the game without becoming soulshriven or doing so much later In the play through. In that case, as far as that character knows, reviving at wayshrines or with soul gems is just something that happens, for whatever reason they want. Blessing of the gods? Curse of the Daedra? Effect of the Soulburst? ZOS didnt bother to give any reason other than "You're a Vestige, Harry" when you finally start the MQ. So if you never do the MQ, there's a number of plausible reasons that would be acceptable for a character living in Tamriel.


    Can we definitively say one approach is right or wrong?

    I'd say "No." The game chronology is important, but its also very necessary to be respectful of "what happens on the screen" or the internal chronology of the character. Not to mention, I personally think the idea of "stable time loops" and "hopping back and forth on the timeline" is a really annoying way to handle making the game make sense. Thanks, ZOS.

    At most, we can dictate how our characters work. But I would never tell someone who's doing a no-Vestige playthrough, "Well, actually, in terms of the in game chronology your character is the Once and Future Vestige whether you want him to be or not." That would be pretty rude of me and dismissive of their roleplay. It would be dismissive of what they are actually seeing on the screen and doing (or not doing) in game with their character. At root, I think whatever the character experiences is going to be more valid than the "chronological timeline" (which is actually pretty confusing. Thanks ZOS.)

    For an example of character experience being very valid, IIRC, you shared in another thread that you had a bug that prevented you from completing TES 3: Tribunal. So for your playthrough, your character never experienced the ending of Tribunal and never lost their good opinion of Almalexia. That's a very "internal chronology of the character" approach, because your playthrough differed from the "official canon", yet is no less valid or important to you.

    In a similar situation, someone who's never started the MQ isn't a Vestige. Not yet, and maybe not ever. That's their canon, even if other characters did become the Vestige.


    So when it comes to reviving with soul gems or at wayshrines?
    The in game explanation is that chronologically, everyone started off as the Vestige, no matter what content they started off with or whether or not they even did that content or not.
    But that's unsatisfying, because that runs counter to the internal chronology of the characters, who can delay or even skip the start of the Main Quest entirely, thanks to ZOS. So for those characters, whatever explanation they come up with is valid, because they havent done the MQ yet.

    If that's unsatisfying, sorry. Complain to ZOS about not forcing everyone through the original Coldharbor tutorial right off the bat. That would take care of the problem.

    Until then, I think its important to recognize that ZOS doesnt require players to start the MQ. So we should respect that, for those characters, the MQ start didnt happen in their playthrough, and yet they can still revive from soul gems or at wayshrines.
    Edited by VaranisArano on October 7, 2019 6:58PM
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