ZOS, Do this instead of nerfing everyone

Drako_Ei

ZoS if your goal is to nerf damage, try to approach it from a different way (Im talking from a pure PvE perspective), Here are 2 equal scenarios:

Nerf everyone's dps by 50%:

• You archieve your goal
• Everyone gets a feeling of regression
• You will make all your playerbase angry
• People will cancel their ESO+ out of anger, or play another MMO

Buff the enemies' HP (And damage while you are at it) by 100%:

• You archieve your goal
• There is no feeling of regression
• Your player base will be happy, do you see those posts asking you to BUFF overland content and dungeons?
• Happy playerbase = ESO+ = $$$

There is no difference, and i know its easier (and lazy) to nerf everyone's damage, but for most of the DPS, their numbers are important, there are a lot of DPS (Disclaimer: im not speaking about myself) who worked so hard to get past the 50k+ dps barrier this patch, and you are taking that away from them, you are going to make them feel discouraged if you put them back at 38k dps. Please understand this ZoS.

Pallio

Or just tell us the truth that you want us all to quit.

MJallday

They’ve taken a sledgehammer to a nut

Bouldercleave

MJallday wrote: »

They’ve taken a sledgehammer to a nut

I kinda feel like they've taken that sledgehammer to both my nuts with this round of "updates".

RandomName123

Get your rational logic out of here!!!

nafensoriel

How do people think DPS is going to go down by 50%? It won't. It is delusional to think otherwise.
Certain skills, that happen to be meta, are getting heavily tuned. That does not equate to a 50% damage reduction.
I'll bet money its, at best, a 0% nerf to ST DPS and a 30% nerf to AOE DPS. Why? So far thats been their metric and they've stuck to it pretty darn hardcore.

I also have to mention that endless buffs end up being a very terrible idea. Eventually, you have to nerf.
It's very similar to the "if everyone is a millionaire no one is" axiom.

Aurie

It would have been better not to have buffed everything so much in the first place. Then the power creep wouldn't have needed such draconian measures to rectify.

MartiniDaniels

nafensoriel wrote: »

How do people think DPS is going to go down by 50%? It won't. It is delusional to think otherwise.
Certain skills, that happen to be meta, are getting heavily tuned. That does not equate to a 50% damage reduction.
I'll bet money its, at best, a 0% nerf to ST DPS and a 30% nerf to AOE DPS. Why? So far thats been their metric and they've stuck to it pretty darn hardcore.

I also have to mention that endless buffs end up being a very terrible idea. Eventually, you have to nerf.
It's very similar to the "if everyone is a millionaire no one is" axiom.

You understand that even pure bow/frag +spammable rotations of beginning of 2019 had at least 3 dots (blockade, class aoe, class dot) in them and those dots were nerfed to hell, while frags and spammables wasn't buffed? No way dps will remain the same, this is impossible. It will fall to 2017 level if this goes live.

MJallday

nafensoriel wrote: »

How do people think DPS is going to go down by 50%? It won't. It is delusional to think otherwise.
Certain skills, that happen to be meta, are getting heavily tuned. That does not equate to a 50% damage reduction.
I'll bet money its, at best, a 0% nerf to ST DPS and a 30% nerf to AOE DPS. Why? So far thats been their metric and they've stuck to it pretty darn hardcore.

I also have to mention that endless buffs end up being a very terrible idea. Eventually, you have to nerf.
It's very similar to the "if everyone is a millionaire no one is" axiom.

Today’s tests are showing about a 30-35% drop

jainiadral

TBH, both of those options suck. I like overland the way it is.

Vhozek

Nerfs will just create a patch leapfrog effect where today's overpowered skill will be overpowered again in a year or two. I think the best solution is for nerf patches to be rolled back and have what was op today be up to par with what was op yesterday.

In other words, go back one patch and buff what turned out to be op if you had kept the patch after it.

To further simplify:
Patch 1.0 : Skill A is proven to be overpowered.
Patch 1.1: Nerfs overpowered skill.
Patch 1.1: Skill B is proven to be overpowered.
Go back to patch 1.0 and buff Skill B.
Try it again by nerfing Skill A and B.
Find out what Skill C is.
Repeat.

Or detect what skills are the least used of all and buff those.
AKA: actually look into the meta and learn about your own damn game.
AKA: be responsible for your creation.
AKA: be passionate for your work
AKA: start giving a damn

Kadoin

Drako_Ei wrote: »

Buff the enemies' HP (And damage while you are at it) by 100%:

• You archieve your goal
• There is no feeling of regression
• Your player base will be happy, do you see those posts asking you to BUFF overland content and dungeons?
• Happy playerbase = ESO+ = $$$

Better idea: instead of introducing DPS checks, hard and soft, they should add mechanics to bosses that punish too much DPS so you have to actually think instead of stack and burn, and if the DPS aren't really "skilled" then a healer will be definitely required.

I don't mean forcing players to block and roll, I mean mechanics that literally make your DPS work against you in one way or another.

The game needs more of that, and less of "here come kill a bunch of adds"

WrathOfInnos

Kadoin wrote: »

Drako_Ei wrote: »

Buff the enemies' HP (And damage while you are at it) by 100%:

• You archieve your goal
• There is no feeling of regression
• Your player base will be happy, do you see those posts asking you to BUFF overland content and dungeons?
• Happy playerbase = ESO+ = $$$

Better idea: instead of introducing DPS checks, hard and soft, they should add mechanics to bosses that punish too much DPS so you have to actually think instead of stack and burn, and if the DPS aren't really "skilled" then a healer will be definitely required.

I don't mean forcing players to block and roll, I mean mechanics that literally make your DPS work against you in one way or another.

The game needs more of that, and less of "here come kill a bunch of adds"

Like the 1st boss of vVoM? Inevitable death with 99% of pug groups? No thanks

@Drako_Ei I agree with your suggestion to buff enemies health rather than cut players’ DPS. I don’t think it’s as much a psychological issue, but I’d like the devs to put a little more thought into which encounters need to be scaled up, rather than universally affecting everything that may or may not need the change.

kargen27

Drako_Ei wrote: »

ZoS if your goal is to nerf damage, try to approach it from a different way (Im talking from a pure PvE perspective), Here are 2 equal scenarios:

Nerf everyone's dps by 50%:

• You archieve your goal
• Everyone gets a feeling of regression
• You will make all your playerbase angry
• People will cancel their ESO+ out of anger, or play another MMO

Buff the enemies' HP (And damage while you are at it) by 100%:

• You archieve your goal
• There is no feeling of regression
• Your player base will be happy, do you see those posts asking you to BUFF overland content and dungeons?
• Happy playerbase = ESO+ = $$$

There is no difference, and i know its easier (and lazy) to nerf everyone's damage, but for most of the DPS, their numbers are important, there are a lot of DPS (Disclaimer: im not speaking about myself) who worked so hard to get past the 50k+ dps barrier this patch, and you are taking that away from them, you are going to make them feel discouraged if you put them back at 38k dps. Please understand this ZoS.

People are more apt to complain than to praise. Before they lowered the difficulty of overland content many players came here to complain. Either option is going to make one group or the other unhappy. The unfortunate truth is most the players do not care about squeezing all the DPS they can out of a build. If the goal is keeping the biggest share of players happy then making content more difficult isn't the answer. I wish it was, I want the challenge but it isn't.

chrightt

Actually, no. Playerbase will just whine with OHHH NOOO WHY ARE HP GETTING DOUBLED?!?!?!

P.S. I still don't get why people are saying DPS is getting reduced by 50%. DoT and AoE DoT damage are getting reduced by 50%. I guess people just don't really think about it carefully is all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Keledus

Increasing enemies health constantly ain't a solution either, neither is increasing players power.
The only way overland gets more difficult is if the enemies do more damage or they have more abilities and do more than just hit you with one spell/attack.(Dragons being a great example of making overland more difficult) Taking the powercreep way one day you might end up with enemies that have a billion health and players dealing a million damage for example.
Just ends up being crazy and stupid.

They should've taken the approach of doing updates in smaller patches seeing how players react to them instead of dropping a massive bomb of changes onto the players nerfing every class.

They are taking the right approach to some extent when it comes to class identity, classes using more of their class abilities instead of having both their bars filled with non-class abilities. However they've made the mistake by quite literally removing the ability identity of the non-class abilities. (uppercut/reversed slice being an example)

Dropping bombshells like this every new dlc causes people to overreact and lose their minds.
Ain't healthy for the game or the players.

nafensoriel

Vhozek wrote: »

Or detect what skills are the least used of all and buff those.
AKA: actually look into the meta and learn about your own damn game.
AKA: be responsible for your creation.
AKA: be passionate for your work
AKA: start giving a damn

Define Meta. Meta is made by what people do with your game. What people do with your very complex and detailed game that you were passionate about, responsible for its creation, and gave a damn to make.

What people do with your game has no reality on what you thought people would do with your game.
Balancing a video game is not simple. Nerf/buff cycles are more due to players exploiting things you didn't account for than anything else. There is no statistician on the planet who can account for every DPS variable and truely balance an online game.

@ others
Also looks like I was 50% right so far. AOE down 30%. Right in line with expectations.
I still think ST will be barely nerfed once we play with rotations a bit.