BOTs

Epicasballs

Are there any plans to address the massive influx of bot farming on console? Currently you can't go to any spot suitable to farm materials without seeing dozens of lowbie pet sorcs all heavy attacking and using the same skills in unison with one another. It's really affecting the economy at this point. Normally supply/demand drive prices but right now the market is flooded with materials at a fixed price that are way higher than they ought to be given the over supply issue. Actual players are not setting these prices. That's an issue. I have never seen a GM on console and I have been playing since June 2015. To report BOTs with the tools available to us on console would take hours... trust me I have done it but the issue never gets resolved. No GMs show up to ban hammer the lot. Customer service doesn't seem to care.

Can we get some GMs on console or better reporting tools? A GM chat function would be nice if there were GMs to contact for immediate support. Or better yet allow players to change instances. It doesn't seem to matter how many times I log in or out I always get put into the same instance as these BOTs. Maybe there are so many they occupy all instances... most likely. Please fix this. Players cannot compete for resources against them and buying the materials they are selling from traders only serves to make what they are doing worth it to them. This issue needs to be resolved . It deserves the highest priority alongside performance issues. Thank you.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno

jircris11

Sadly bot farming is as old as mmos and no true counter. I think of them as a hydra, cut one head off 2 more replace it.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

We have a lot of Bots on PC (I'm on PC NA) and I report them every single day. They remain sometimes for months on end leveling. I watched one particular Bot in Alikr go from level 3 to CP 426 before it moved on or was banned.

The Bot locations are very common in the game and going to these locations only takes a few minutes. A GM could easily port in and ban them but it never happens.

Glister Vale in Auridon is one of the most heavily populated BOT zones on PC NA. There is almost always a large BOT train there. The Rift has several BOT zones as well as all the Starter zones.

IDK, seems like zos doesn't care much about the BOTs these days and leaves them alone.

Jayman1000

Huh? Now I don't play on console, but I don't understand how prices can be high when supply is over saturating the market. Guild traders are competitive not only between guild traders, but also between the players selling in them. High prices will always get undercut by other sellers. So when you say "fixed prices" something does not add up.

Epicasballs

jircris11 wrote: »

Sadly bot farming is as old as mmos and no true counter. I think of them as a hydra, cut one head off 2 more replace it.

The gold is being sold on 3rd party sites. From a business perspective alone it deserves the highest priority much less the affect it has on the game.

One way would be to allow the sale of crown items from player to player with a C.O.D. system. A player gifts a crown item but the crowns are not deducted from the seller until the gift has been accepted. Right now the trust you're not going to get ripped off holds people back from using crown gifts as a way to exchange gold for real currency.

Epicasballs

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Huh? Now I don't play on console, but I don't understand how prices can be high when supply is over saturating the market. Guild traders are competitive not only between guild traders, but also between the players selling in them. High prices will always get undercut by other sellers. So when you say "fixed prices" something does not add up.

They use their large pools of gold to buy out undercutters and relist the items at their prices. @Jayman1000

Jayman1000

Epicasballs wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Huh? Now I don't play on console, but I don't understand how prices can be high when supply is over saturating the market. Guild traders are competitive not only between guild traders, but also between the players selling in them. High prices will always get undercut by other sellers. So when you say "fixed prices" something does not add up.

They use their large pools of gold to buy out undercutters and relist the items are their prices.

Im sorry that argument just doesnt holp up. This is not a central AH we are talking about, it is many traders across many different locations. Buying up only has very limited effect. It can work sometimes for low volume items, but only for a while. For high volume it becomes virtually impossible to pull off for longer than a very short while. Quickly someone else will post listings that are just a couple of percent below those high prices they are selling for. Then what? They will buy up items that a 1% below their own overblown prices? Of course not. And that is where their scheme ends. I also fail to see what this has to do with bots. Pulling of this kind of market control requires a live human to make decisions; no way in hell can this be automated unless we are talking insanely sophisticated AI. And this is on console mind you!

If timed correctly it CAN work though, but only for a very short while. But in some cases it can be enough to make a little extra profit.

Epicasballs

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Epicasballs wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Huh? Now I don't play on console, but I don't understand how prices can be high when supply is over saturating the market. Guild traders are competitive not only between guild traders, but also between the players selling in them. High prices will always get undercut by other sellers. So when you say "fixed prices" something does not add up.

They use their large pools of gold to buy out undercutters and relist the items are their prices.

Im sorry that argument just doesnt holp up. This is not a central AH we are talking about, it is many traders across many different locations. Buying up only has very limited effect. It can work sometimes for low volume items, but only for a while. For high volume it becomes virtually impossible to pull off for longer than a very short while. Quickly someone else will post listings that are just a couple of percent below those high prices they are selling for. Then what? They will buy up items that a 1% below their own overblown prices? Of course not. And that is where their scheme ends. I also fail to see what this has to do with bots. Pulling of this kind of market control requires a live human to make decisions; no way in hell can this be automated unless we are talking insanely sophisticated AI. And this is on console mind you!

If timed correctly it CAN work though, but only for a very short while. But in some cases it can be enough to make a little extra profit.

Obviously the bots are not listing the items. There are players you see going around looting the corpses that are grouped with the bots. The bots just do the killing. And yes you can slightly undercut them. But the volume of materials they are farming means they are setting the prices. The account names are organized into Rawl'kha 1, 2, or 3. Mournhold 1,2,3 and so on for each major trade hub. Recently on EU server prices exploded due to a glitch that rewarded some guilds with massive amounts of gold... with certain materials that's a perpetual thing on console. @Jayman1000

SantieClaws

This one saw two potential bot trains in The Rift last night.

She filmed and reported them.

All we have the power to do yes.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Jayman1000

Epicasballs wrote: »

Obviously the bots are not listing the items.

Oh ok, I agree then. I only responded to that because you wrote "Actual players are not setting these prices.". But we are in agreement about this then, it is actual players setting the prices, just many resources sold was acquitted by bot.

Epicasballs wrote: »

And yes you can slightly undercut them. But the volume of materials they are farming means they are setting the prices.

Again, what you are saying doesnt make sense. As you point out you can slightly undercut them, they can only counter that by either buying up your high priced items, which destroys their scheme, because now they have to resell the bought up items at inflated prices just to get the loss of buying it back + sell their own items at inflated prices, OR by undercutting, which also destroys their inflation scheme because then they are actually competing on price. In the meantime the inflated prices will attract many more other sellers that want to cash in an continue to undercut again. See the problem, they can't keep that up for very long. You cannot circumvent the basic mechanics of supply and demand.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

SantieClaws wrote: »

This one saw two potential bot trains in The Rift last night.

She filmed and reported them.

All we have the power to do yes.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

I know exactly where you saw them. Usually two 5 Player Bot Trains relatively close together.

Jayman1000

Also Im talking from experience, I flip items like that, but Im telling you that it doesn't work for very long. Even in a central AH economy, which is far more easy to control for big players than in eso's fragmented trader economy, it is not possible to pull this off for very long.

What I usually do is simply buying up the items that my mm tells me usually sells higher. I then break them down into smaller stacks and post them at inflated prices. Many buyers often dont mind paying 20-50% overprice for a quarter stack (50 items, instead of 200). Or 10 corn flowers or decorative was can often sell at highly inflated prices, which comes on top of the already high price for these items. Sometimes it can take some days to get these items sold, and that may actually be what you are seeing in those guilds. Overpriced items that takes long to be sold, so naturally those are the listings that will be left for you to see in the guild stores.

Disclaimer: Im not a big player. But small players can benefit very neatly from flipping.

Epicasballs

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Epicasballs wrote: »

Obviously the bots are not listing the items.

Oh ok, I agree then. I only responded to that because you wrote "Actual players are not setting these prices.". But we are in agreement about this then, it is actual players setting the prices, just many resources sold was acquitted by bot.

Epicasballs wrote: »

And yes you can slightly undercut them. But the volume of materials they are farming means they are setting the prices.

Again, what you are saying doesnt make sense. As you point out you can slightly undercut them, they can only counter that by either buying up your high priced items, which destroys their scheme, because now they have to resell the bought up items at inflated prices just to get the loss of buying it back + sell their own items at inflated prices, OR by undercutting, which also destroys their inflation scheme because then they are actually competing on price. In the meantime the inflated prices will attract many more other sellers that want to cash in an continue to undercut again. See the problem, they can't keep that up for very long. You cannot circumvent the basic mechanics of supply and demand.

Yes exactly. Prices are stupid high, as I said, despite a complete over supply. You just perfectly described what is happening, thank you. And I wouldn't call the player controlled character harvesting the drops an actual player. Even calling the characters doing the killing bots isn't totally right.. it's more akin to mulitboxing and not real bots controlled by AI. You can see them individually geting set up and put into position but once they are they're all perfectly in sync. @Jayman1000

MLGProPlayer

Epicasballs wrote: »

Are there any plans to address the massive influx of bot farming on console? Currently you can't go to any spot suitable to farm materials without seeing dozens of lowbie pet sorcs all heavy attacking and using the same skills in unison with one another. It's really affecting the economy at this point. Normally supply/demand drive prices but right now the market is flooded with materials at a fixed price that are way higher than they ought to be given the over supply issue. Actual players are not setting these prices. That's an issue. I have never seen a GM on console and I have been playing since June 2015. To report BOTs with the tools available to us on console would take hours... trust me I have done it but the issue never gets resolved. No GMs show up to ban hammer the lot. Customer service doesn't seem to care.

Can we get some GMs on console or better reporting tools? A GM chat function would be nice if there were GMs to contact for immediate support. Or better yet allow players to change instances. It doesn't seem to matter how many times I log in or out I always get put into the same instance as these BOTs. Maybe there are so many they occupy all instances... most likely. Please fix this. Players cannot compete for resources against them and buying the materials they are selling from traders only serves to make what they are doing worth it to them. This issue needs to be resolved . It deserves the highest priority alongside performance issues. Thank you.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno

Oversupply reduces prices.

Most bots also don't sell directly. They sell to flippers in zone chat at prices considerably below market value, who then price at market value. But the price gradually comes down as there are far more sellers than buyers, who then undercut each other in order to sell.

Prices have come down 200-300% on mats on PC in the past two years due to botting. We're at the point where legitimately farming materials is not an effective way of making gold anymore. Botters have completely ruined the market.

Malmai

Epicasballs wrote: »

Are there any plans to address the massive influx of bot farming on console? Currently you can't go to any spot suitable to farm materials without seeing dozens of lowbie pet sorcs all heavy attacking and using the same skills in unison with one another. It's really affecting the economy at this point. Normally supply/demand drive prices but right now the market is flooded with materials at a fixed price that are way higher than they ought to be given the over supply issue. Actual players are not setting these prices. That's an issue. I have never seen a GM on console and I have been playing since June 2015. To report BOTs with the tools available to us on console would take hours... trust me I have done it but the issue never gets resolved. No GMs show up to ban hammer the lot. Customer service doesn't seem to care.

Can we get some GMs on console or better reporting tools? A GM chat function would be nice if there were GMs to contact for immediate support. Or better yet allow players to change instances. It doesn't seem to matter how many times I log in or out I always get put into the same instance as these BOTs. Maybe there are so many they occupy all instances... most likely. Please fix this. Players cannot compete for resources against them and buying the materials they are selling from traders only serves to make what they are doing worth it to them. This issue needs to be resolved . It deserves the highest priority alongside performance issues. Thank you.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno

Its nice atleast you can buy overpriced goods...

Hallothiel

Not bot trains but have noticed an increased amount of low level pet sorcs in Khenarthi’s Roost. Know they are dodgy as have psn name that is string of random letters plus character name is two random words.

Have reported them but again not so easy on ps4 as can’t easily send/attach screenshot to report. That would make things so much easier!

InvictusApollo

More bots == cheaper materials.

Epicasballs

InvictusApollo wrote: »

More bots == cheaper materials.

Not the case. Wax prices have doubled over the last while coinciding with an increase in bots. Temps prices havee dropped 66% over the last while and bots don't farm temps. Players can farm those materials themselves limiting demand. You CANNOT farm wax any more.... all suitable locations are over run with bots. You cannot compete. Players have no choice but to buy materials at inflated prices. This is an issue. I don't know how bad it is on PC but on console it has gotten way out of control.

ShellaSunshine

If you take a video/screenshot of the incident and go to the ESO website and send in a private support ticket with as much information as possible, it will help the developers find and take down these bots.

On the PC-NA server, there were tons of people bot farming the Hollow Waste dolmens. I took a screenshot of every single one and sent them in as a support ticket with the exact location of the player and exactly what they were doing. Don't forget to mention which server you are on.

Within days, these bot farmers disappeared and I haven't seen them since. It got so bad, there were at least a dozen of them walking side to side and inside of each other. It absolutely looked ridiculous. There is no way a real player would be able to move in exactly the same way repeatedly without making mistakes.

Now, I have no idea if they got banned but they don't farm that particular dolmen anymore. You just have to send some sort of proof but most importantly an exact location because they do have a team of developers that have to investigate it and if they can see what is going on then they will have a better idea on how to handle the situation.

Most things they need to investigate, such as cheating, does take several months for them to investigate since they do not use an Anti-Cheat system. No one wants to accidentally ban a player who wasn't actually cheating.

All you can do right now is to keep reporting them. It's not going to stop them forever because most likely these bot farmers are using smurf accounts but it shouldn't stop you from trying to keep the game fun for everyone else.

Starlock

It's especially bad on console (xbox) in part because ESO is on games pass. This means the game is essentially free-to-play on that platform, which is a botter's dream come true. They only have to pay for a month of xbox live gold with games pass attached to engage in their ToS violating scum suckery. In most cases, it seems more effective to report the account to Microsoft for botting than to bother with Zenimax.

Runkorko

jircris11 wrote: »

Sadly bot farming is as old as mmos and no true counter. I think of them as a hydra, cut one head off 2 more replace it.

try bot farm in wow=perma ban

InvictusApollo wrote: »

More bots == cheaper materials.

dont be naive