Necro vs Warden healer

SJD_Phoenix

I feel that this dispute, as all is very content driven, and it’s healthy for everyone to drop in their experiences as when it comes to support there’s a lot of factors involved based on content, group comp and levels of difficulty of content you’re attempting. I think we need to remember that the original question (zero disrespect intended) was relatively vague as none of the above (content/group/difficulty) was established; so I think it’s only fair everyone puts there experiences forward so we can start to mould a bigger picture.

As for mine, I’ve mostly healed small group (4-7) in pvp on necromancer. I find the class incredibly tanky as you have nice access to major protection, good resource recovery through confederate passive, mitigation from the spirit guardian to allies, mitigation through the burst heal, minor protection and vulnerability through a cc and major vuln through ulti. Heals are more than adequate as far as hots (regen hits hard anyway) and I’m getting 15k plus tooltips on resistant flesh.

The oh *** burst heal for me is enough to sway me. We toyed with my Templar friend going to warden for the buffs (more major protection amoungst others) but the lack of super reliable burst heals from warden put us off.

I see warden as a nice damage based build that gives group utility at the same time instead of deadicated heal spec; but like I said that’s for the type of content I run (typically small group vX pvp)

I cannot speak for end game raiding.

Taleof2Cities

p00tx wrote: »

To the player who accused me of going off topic in an effort to discredit my input (really rude actually), my response is very much on-topic. OP made a comparison of Wardens and Necro healers, and asked for opinions and input. Since I'm an end-game healer main who runs every heal spec except DK and I've had experience with all of them since the patch, I'm pretty sure that puts me in the position to add informed input.

No, @p00tx, it’s not an attempt to discredit your input ... it’s simply having you read what the OP is asking and offer advice within that context.

I already indicated your Trials build is a good setup.

However, the OP may never use that setup nor want to participate in end game content ... much less answering their question about raw healing output between the classes.

I think you know where both the OP and myself are coming from.

Chalk it up as a lesson learned for next time.

p00tx

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I think you know where both the OP and myself are coming from.

Chalk it up as a lesson learned for next time.

I still don't understand the point of your responses and still feel like you're trying to control the flow of this conversation, which I don't really think is your place.

I also don't think I needed to learn any "lessons", but thanks anyway.

KappaKid83

icefyer_ESO wrote: »

Is it just me or does Warden kind of curbstomp over what Necro has to offer as a healer? 10% extra total health and stamina / magicka recovery, mending passive, their magicka regeneration doesn't require magicka like the necro's does with the summon and gives Sorcery, they have a class buff for Prophecy that also turns their weapon attacks into healing, their damage resist buff is an AOE and gives a further 8% less damage taken, plus Budding Seeds seems to have stronger burst, (8k vs 6k) plus the synergy, plus the HoT without requiring a corpse.

I think they are both really strong in given situations. I prefer to run Warden in PvP groups due to the 10% max health bonus but a Magicka Necro adds a ton of heals and debuffs along side of it so they are both equally needed in a larger group setting. In PVE I do prefer my Warden but that is somewhat of a play style thing for me rather than an effectiveness thing.

SJD_Phoenix

KappaKid83 wrote: »

icefyer_ESO wrote: »

Is it just me or does Warden kind of curbstomp over what Necro has to offer as a healer? 10% extra total health and stamina / magicka recovery, mending passive, their magicka regeneration doesn't require magicka like the necro's does with the summon and gives Sorcery, they have a class buff for Prophecy that also turns their weapon attacks into healing, their damage resist buff is an AOE and gives a further 8% less damage taken, plus Budding Seeds seems to have stronger burst, (8k vs 6k) plus the synergy, plus the HoT without requiring a corpse.

I think they are both really strong in given situations. I prefer to run Warden in PvP groups due to the 10% max health bonus but a Magicka Necro adds a ton of heals and debuffs along side of it so they are both equally needed in a larger group setting. In PVE I do prefer my Warden but that is somewhat of a play style thing for me rather than an effectiveness thing.

I think the nice thing about wardens in pve from my limited experience is that the skills flow nicely as far as a “heal over time” perspective.

I imagine when they look at the very quickly diminishing corpse issue we currently have, the necro will feel slightly less clunky. I try to avoid skills that REQUIRE corpses for this main reason.

SJD_Phoenix

@p00tx @Taleof2Cities

You’re both pretty.

Grianasteri

p00tx wrote: »

Necro has extremely powerful heals and a fantastic toolkit for group utility. I love my Warden though, and wouldn't toss it out for Necro, but in certain instances, my Necro wins out for just sheer healing strength and debuff ability. They have an AoE Major breach and fracture which provides an extra synergy, an AoE minor protection coupled with AoE minor vulnerability, an AoE burst heal with a cleanse and a hot if used properly, a set-and-forget portable smart HoT, a single target burst heal that offers potentially more than the major resistances a warden can offer, plus the option to slot either an extra Colossus for the group or emergency necro rez.

The Necro is an incredibly powerful heal spec, but it's not an intuitive one. it takes time to learn how to use it to its full potential properly.

What this guy said ^^^

icefyer_ESO

Grianasteri wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Necro has extremely powerful heals and a fantastic toolkit for group utility. I love my Warden though, and wouldn't toss it out for Necro, but in certain instances, my Necro wins out for just sheer healing strength and debuff ability. They have an AoE Major breach and fracture which provides an extra synergy, an AoE minor protection coupled with AoE minor vulnerability, an AoE burst heal with a cleanse and a hot if used properly, a set-and-forget portable smart HoT, a single target burst heal that offers potentially more than the major resistances a warden can offer, plus the option to slot either an extra Colossus for the group or emergency necro rez.

The Necro is an incredibly powerful heal spec, but it's not an intuitive one. it takes time to learn how to use it to its full potential properly.

What this guy said ^^^

Though I am curious as to how the necro wins out when they have less sustain and their version of Seeds doesn't even break even with the Warden's even without letting the HoT unless you have a corpse and stand in the location the whole time and costs almost half more and their starter burst heal only heals one target or two with a corpse while the Warden's is a cone that heals anyone in it plus boosting their resources if you go the magicka morph. Is there some trick with necro and healing spirit I'm not getting or something? I run the Intensive Mender for corpse generation and unfortunately the necro's passive that makes it regen magicka eats a fair bit more than it gives back while the warden's requires no magicka, cleanses an effect, and gives Sorcery in addition to proccing the passive that increases their regen by a further 12% just for having it slotted on the bar. The necro's 'free' magicka regen requires a morph of a DPs ability which requires a corpse and must be cast twice to restore enough magicka to break even with Netch, but abilities which generate corpses cost magicka, so using it in the middle of a boss fight that doesn't spawn adds that leave corpses once again consumes more than it gives back, so I don't get where some people are saying they have good sustain either.

Grianasteri

icefyer_ESO wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Necro has extremely powerful heals and a fantastic toolkit for group utility. I love my Warden though, and wouldn't toss it out for Necro, but in certain instances, my Necro wins out for just sheer healing strength and debuff ability. They have an AoE Major breach and fracture which provides an extra synergy, an AoE minor protection coupled with AoE minor vulnerability, an AoE burst heal with a cleanse and a hot if used properly, a set-and-forget portable smart HoT, a single target burst heal that offers potentially more than the major resistances a warden can offer, plus the option to slot either an extra Colossus for the group or emergency necro rez.

The Necro is an incredibly powerful heal spec, but it's not an intuitive one. it takes time to learn how to use it to its full potential properly.

What this guy said ^^^

Though I am curious as to how the necro wins out when they have less sustain and their version of Seeds doesn't even break even with the Warden's even without letting the HoT unless you have a corpse and stand in the location the whole time and costs almost half more and their starter burst heal only heals one target or two with a corpse while the Warden's is a cone that heals anyone in it plus boosting their resources if you go the magicka morph. Is there some trick with necro and healing spirit I'm not getting or something? I run the Intensive Mender for corpse generation and unfortunately the necro's passive that makes it regen magicka eats a fair bit more than it gives back while the warden's requires no magicka, cleanses an effect, and gives Sorcery in addition to proccing the passive that increases their regen by a further 12% just for having it slotted on the bar. The necro's 'free' magicka regen requires a morph of a DPs ability which requires a corpse and must be cast twice to restore enough magicka to break even with Netch, but abilities which generate corpses cost magicka, so using it in the middle of a boss fight that doesn't spawn adds that leave corpses once again consumes more than it gives back, so I don't get where some people are saying they have good sustain either.

Personally I've not been maining heals for probably over a year now so I hesitate to comment further (although I do have 4 healer characters and do generally know what I am doing with heals).

All Id say is if you are having sustain issues, there are usually solutions. You could go a Breton. You could slot mag recovery Glyphs in your jewlz. You could take the recovery mundus. My healers usually employ a combination of the above and chuck a heavy attack into each rotation and bobs youre uncle.

p00tx

icefyer_ESO wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Necro has extremely powerful heals and a fantastic toolkit for group utility. I love my Warden though, and wouldn't toss it out for Necro, but in certain instances, my Necro wins out for just sheer healing strength and debuff ability. They have an AoE Major breach and fracture which provides an extra synergy, an AoE minor protection coupled with AoE minor vulnerability, an AoE burst heal with a cleanse and a hot if used properly, a set-and-forget portable smart HoT, a single target burst heal that offers potentially more than the major resistances a warden can offer, plus the option to slot either an extra Colossus for the group or emergency necro rez.

The Necro is an incredibly powerful heal spec, but it's not an intuitive one. it takes time to learn how to use it to its full potential properly.

What this guy said ^^^

Though I am curious as to how the necro wins out when they have less sustain and their version of Seeds doesn't even break even with the Warden's even without letting the HoT unless you have a corpse and stand in the location the whole time and costs almost half more and their starter burst heal only heals one target or two with a corpse while the Warden's is a cone that heals anyone in it plus boosting their resources if you go the magicka morph. Is there some trick with necro and healing spirit I'm not getting or something? I run the Intensive Mender for corpse generation and unfortunately the necro's passive that makes it regen magicka eats a fair bit more than it gives back while the warden's requires no magicka, cleanses an effect, and gives Sorcery in addition to proccing the passive that increases their regen by a further 12% just for having it slotted on the bar. The necro's 'free' magicka regen requires a morph of a DPs ability which requires a corpse and must be cast twice to restore enough magicka to break even with Netch, but abilities which generate corpses cost magicka, so using it in the middle of a boss fight that doesn't spawn adds that leave corpses once again consumes more than it gives back, so I don't get where some people are saying they have good sustain either.

I'd have to see what you're doing in raid to understand the cause of your sustain struggle. With this patch, sustain became a non-issue for healers, since we don't need to cast a ton of expensive orbs or spam Springs during high incoming dmg mechanics. I only run 1-2 recovery glyphs, and 1-2 spell dmg glyphs with either the Thief or the Apprentice Mundus, depending on spec and content (Sorc healers need plenty of crit to proc their Surge skill reliably and on any spec in vAS+2 I run The Steed for group healing). I sustain just fine between 1800 and 2000 recovery on all specs and in all content. If that isn't enough, you may be overcasting skills, which does tend to happen in high stress healing environments (I do it too).

As far as the Necro "winning out", I don't think there is any "win" to be had. I think both specs are fantastic and extremely useful, except where i did state that Necro isn't particularly great for or group healing vAS where its benefits would be wasted, although it could still certainly be used if someone really wanted to.

TeamRodZilla

The reanimate ultimate is a huge plus for the Necro healer.