Reduce max group size

Fawn4287

Given the popularity of battlegrounds and the constant rapid decline of Cyrodiil populations, its pretty clear that most players prefer the fast paced fairer combat of 4 man groups, so why not reduce all PVP group sizes to 4 max and have buffs and heals apply only to the people within your group. This would work well especially in the Imperial City where giant zergs and coordinated ballgroups just make the game a boring slow punish to play and with this reduced group size there will probably be an improvement of game performance that happens with it?

idk

There is not a correlation between interest in 4 man groups and the decline in interest in Cyrodiil. Most of the decline in Cyrodiil occurred well before BGs were added to the game. Most of the decline in Cyrodiil is more related to server performance and how Zos has managed this game.

Further, back in the heyday of Cyrodiil there were zone zerg groups that ran 3-4 full groups as though they were one. So even your idea of smaller groups just means multiple smaller groups would run as one server no purpose at al.

Now, smaller groups would improve server performance if they did not accumulate at the same keeps. However, we know from over 5 years of history that players go to where the action is and we get hordes of players at the same keep regardless the size groups they are in. So even here the idea of small groups does not help.

Edit; Also, restricting heals to those in a group means healers must run with groups. It for force them into a specific game play in a game that is about not having such restrictions.

Solariken

I'm all for reducing group sizes, but 4 is too small. 12 seems more appropriate and matches the maximum PvE trial/raid size. They should have done this ages ago, I'm convinced it would have a measurable positive impact on performance.

Qbiken

Reduce group size to 12. While we're at it, make it so you can't heal people (or receive healing) from people you aren't grouped with.

Morgul667

I honestly dont think it would help
And it would damage group gameplay for those who like big groups

Major_Lag

Qbiken wrote: »

Reduce group size to 12. While we're at it, make it so you can't heal people (or receive healing) from people you aren't grouped with.

How about no.

Iskiab

What’s the cyrodiil max population? 200? How about 200 sized groups!

WacArnold

I think they should either make a ffa mode of battle grounds or a seperate. Zone where you cant group.

There needs to be more small scale or 1 on 1.

Keep things seperate so everybody has something to play.

Thats a major problem with this game. Its one size fits all. There needs to be different rules for different modes. Most notably pve and pvp in general.

Fur_like_snow

Great idea. Now restrict healing received to only group members.

Major_Lag

It's already idiotic and arbitrary that certain "Area" effects like Purge and Rapids only work on group members.

Cyrodiil is a LARGE SCALE PvP environment.
If you are looking for 1v1 or smallscale vs smallscale PvP, then you are looking in the wrong place entirely.

Feel free to solo or smallscale to your heart's content, of course - but don't complain when you eventually get rolled over by a zerg

Fur_like_snow

ESO is also an MMO and by design it should encourage group play. If you want that Templar’s heals you should have to be grouped with him. Anyone who disagrees with that prob just zerg surfs.

VaranisArano

The drop in Cyrodiil population right now is more likely due to:
Long term: persistent performance issues
Short term: Imperial City event, anyone?

Anyway, the main cause of the lag-inducing fights in Cyrodiil is large numbers of players all fighting in the same area. Dropping the group size down to 12 or so isn't going to prevent multiple groups of 12 from stacking up until the crashes start.

Imperial City...if ZOS is going to restrict boss loot to 12 people, it might make more sense to limit group size to 12, even though that doesnt guarantee only,12 people in the fight.

Major_Lag

VaranisArano wrote: »

Anyway, the main cause of the lag-inducing fights in Cyrodiil is large numbers of players all fighting in the same area. Dropping the group size down to 12 or so isn't going to prevent multiple groups of 12 from stacking up until the crashes start.

This.
And the stupid, idiotic hammer.

We've long since pushed for emp mechanic to be changed so that dethrone happens when 1 keep is left, instead of the current system which requires 0 keeps left. But of course ZOS does not listen...

KingExecration

Major_Lag wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Anyway, the main cause of the lag-inducing fights in Cyrodiil is large numbers of players all fighting in the same area. Dropping the group size down to 12 or so isn't going to prevent multiple groups of 12 from stacking up until the crashes start.

This.
And the stupid, idiotic hammer.

We've long since pushed for emp mechanic to be changed so that dethrone happens when 1 keep is left, instead of the current system which requires 0 keeps left. But of course ZOS does not listen...

That’s such a terrible idea. Why lose emp when you got one keep left? The whole point to emp is a big fight or keep hold when you’re about to lose it.
Regarding the hammer I think it’s a great implementation to Cyro. Widely hated but it gets things moving. People are just salty an 10 man with it steam rolls their faction Zerg. They can play world war z simulator using 50 people for an empty keep but I think the hammer adds something Cyrodiil needed. That is the fear of something.

Major_Lag

KingExecration wrote: »

That’s such a terrible idea. Why lose emp when you got one keep left? The whole point to emp is a big fight or keep hold when you’re about to lose it.

The whole point of this change would be to FORCE the factions to DESTACK - because then there are 2 keeps which need to be attacked at the same time, instead of just 1!

KingExecration wrote: »

Regarding the hammer I think it’s a great implementation to Cyro. Widely hated but it gets things moving. People are just salty an 10 man with it steam rolls their faction Zerg. They can play world war z simulator using 50 people for an empty keep but I think the hammer adds something Cyrodiil needed. That is the fear of something.

It sure adds a lot... of crashes and lagouts/disconnects

chris25602

I think group size should increase by 5 or 10 and group leaders should be able to link groups together so we can legitimately organize many people at once. Essentially the crown should be able to join a second group of other crowns for the purpose of organizing assaults.

and yes performance issues are absurd. Alot of peak times it is just unplayable. At least in the past i took a month off when performance really sucked only recently have been back.

Blinkin8r

I love how people rant and chant that small scale is dead. Then you get a post like this. At most a reduction to 16 people would be ok. But this is Cyrodiil we're talkin about man. We got keep battles that require more than 4 people lol. Also It's been the way it is for 5 years so it's fine. If people leave, they leave because of the **** performance.

FearlessOne_2014

I agree with taking away some of the power Zerglings have. It's the main reason pretty much don't go to Cyrodiil much at all these days. However how you are going about it is just wrong. Fighting people that build completely defense and only rely on strength in numbers to deal damage to you is very boring to me. That's why when I do PvP in ESO 99% of the time it's in BGs.

-- I would just buff Proxy Det. And make more skills like it, And give Stamina some versions of these skills

There is no need to lessen the numbers of players in groups.

There is no need to lessen amount of players buffs hit in groups.

We just need some counters to the mindless stack numbers and win tactic. Until such time expect to see me less and less in Cyrodiil and more and more in Battlegrounds. Where fights are fun outside of facing Pre Mades on Comms with perfect group synergy builds.

jcm2606

VaranisArano wrote: »

The drop in Cyrodiil population right now is more likely due to:
Long term: persistent performance issues
Short term: Imperial City event, anyone?

Anyway, the main cause of the lag-inducing fights in Cyrodiil is large numbers of players all fighting in the same area. Dropping the group size down to 12 or so isn't going to prevent multiple groups of 12 from stacking up until the crashes start.

Imperial City...if ZOS is going to restrict boss loot to 12 people, it might make more sense to limit group size to 12, even though that doesnt guarantee only,12 people in the fight.

Reducing group size alone won't help, but reducing group size and limiting group buffs/heals to, well, your own group, will. Limiting group buffs/heals to your own group allows the game to very cheaply discard potentially dozens of players from otherwise slow AoE application calculations, especially if it's done earlier in the calculation, ie before any slow LoS checks.

Derra

Qbiken wrote: »

Reduce group size to 12. While we're at it, make it so you can't heal people (or receive healing) from people you aren't grouped with.

Atleast with aoe smart heals.

ZarkingFrued

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Given the popularity of battlegrounds and the constant rapid decline of Cyrodiil populations, its pretty clear that most players prefer the fast paced fairer combat of 4 man groups, so why not reduce all PVP group sizes to 4 max and have buffs and heals apply only to the people within your group. This would work well especially in the Imperial City where giant zergs and coordinated ballgroups just make the game a boring slow punish to play and with this reduced group size there will probably be an improvement of game performance that happens with it?

Finally a good idea

jcm2606

I'd only be fine reducing group size to as low as 12, to match PvE raid sizes and some AoE rules. Also would love an accompanying change to AoE buffs/heals, only applying them to players in your own group. Will not only help reinforce coordination in zergs (will actually have to group up, can't just zergsurf out of group and get free buffs/heals), but will also help performance.

TequilaFire

And require a minimum group size of 4.
/s

montiferus

I think 12 would be a good number and as Derra said make it so only group members can heal you.

To be honest though I don't think that would even fix any of the performance issues in the game.

Major_Lag

TBH, seeing posts/threads like this makes me seriously question why do I even continue playing the game at all, never mind playing what passes for PvP in it.

Cyrodiil is not a Battleground, get over it.
And it will never be, not unless ZOS someday reduces the player population caps to 4 players per faction

Besides, if anything, ZOS has been systematically diminishing the importance of smallscale in Cyrodiil, not empowering it further.
The direction this is going in should be quite obvious, considering the recent changes (DoTs, cast times on ultis, etc).

Fawn4287

Major_Lag wrote: »

TBH, seeing posts/threads like this makes me seriously question why do I even continue playing the game at all, never mind playing what passes for PvP in it.

Cyrodiil is not a Battleground, get over it.
And it will never be, not unless ZOS someday reduces the player population caps to 4 players per faction

Besides, if anything, ZOS has been systematically diminishing the importance of smallscale in Cyrodiil, not empowering it further.
The direction this is going in should be quite obvious, considering the recent changes (DoTs, cast times on ultis, etc).

ZOS could not care less about PVP the constant decline in server performance proves that, they make no new PVP content because it wont sell like questing and PVE content will, the recent changes to vigor suggests that ZOS wants stamina players to stop stacking heals and effectively reduce the effectiveness of stamina based ball groups, I feel the same should be done to magica also, make skills like healing ward and honour the dead morph self heals only in order to reduce the benefits of stacking and receiving ridiculous numbers of off heals