What you guys feel about crit build for no cp?

alext89

Hey guys,

I have tested a very little on my stamcro and stamblade. In both the damage shows, but sometimes when i expect it to show, it dosent. Cant really make up my mind, if it can become stronger than a more meta setup. I would like the crit build to be high risk high reward.
I was thinking of making a setup for stam sorc. and race change for it. But would like to hear you guys imput first. Also any of you who tried crit build yourself?

My thoughts on the setup would be that i go for high crit damage. since in no-cp u have very small amount of crit resist. and i would want atleast 50% crit chance. That way i would also have high chance on those crit heals through crit surge. a little bit of surviability.

I posted a link to the build i had in mind. feel free to check it out. Origianlly i would post a picture, but i dont know how to post pictures in this forum.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=165119

Thanks!

EDIT: for those of you who arrent used to build editor. The stat overview shows that the setup have 94% crit damage (shows in grey text). Almost double damage on a full crit.

ChefZero

What about Briarheart + Gryphon?

Metemsycosis

Hundings gryphon good too. Love it. Mecha acuity honorable mention

Mothers sorrow
Toothrow
Slimecraw
Iceheart
Transmutation
Bsw

Insco851

Very stronk in no cp. folks running around with 13-1500 crit resist? Crits hurt

chrightt

Interesting build and here is some minor feedback:
you're running camouflaged hunter on your primary bar with mostly non-damage moves on your back bar which means that you will have camouflaged's effect up most of the time while dealing damage. This means two things: 1. you can probably swap precise to infused on bow so you can proc a stronger glyph more often (which synergizes well with medium armor for more weapon damage stacking). 2. You can consider running another monster set to buff base weapon damage or a proc set to help dmg/survivability because if you're attacking your enemy from their sides/back you have wasted minor brutality on slimecraw. This is only if you're able to keep up the skill cap required to perform this.

Next, this is just as a personal preference, I'd probably do 1 piece heavy (chestpiece) in this current meta since hunding is craftable anyways. The slightly lower critical and stam consumption I think is fairly offset by the additional armor bonus (also wearing heavy offers mag/stam gen in the form of stam/mag per 5s when getting hit) Doing this will give you 4% max health (2% from undaunted 2% from heavy) 2% max magicka, 2% max stamina.

This is just an example build here using mostly same variables: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=175170
you can replace monster set with anything or just stick with slimecraw. I chose it on a whim to help with a bunch of roll sustain, but then again you don't really need the extra maggen if you're not running dark deal.

MartiniDaniels

I tried similar setup on DK and it literally evaporated people when you were lucky with crits or it sucked when crits won't happen because of how strange RNG is that you can have zero crits 5 GCD in a row with 55% crit chance... Still fun.

Also I think 22k stamina is really low, maybe it's easier to ditch protective on jewelry for triunes, distribute more attributes into stamina and go with defensive monster set (bloodspawn or 2 pieces of resistances). You will have fair chance for minor berserk from camouflaged anyway.

Maybe replace overload with temporal guard to have minor protection on you when you kite with roll-dodges on bow bar.

Iskiab

Isn’t there overlap with slimecraw and camouflaged hunter? Maybe bloodspawn instead.

I’d also be worried about pen, maybe go maul. I’ve never tried a precise trait on a weapon.

alext89

chrightt wrote: »

Interesting build and here is some minor feedback:
you're running camouflaged hunter on your primary bar with mostly non-damage moves on your back bar which means that you will have camouflaged's effect up most of the time while dealing damage. This means two things: 1. you can probably swap precise to infused on bow so you can proc a stronger glyph more often (which synergizes well with medium armor for more weapon damage stacking). 2. You can consider running another monster set to buff base weapon damage or a proc set to help dmg/survivability because if you're attacking your enemy from their sides/back you have wasted minor brutality on slimecraw. This is only if you're able to keep up the skill cap required to perform this.

Next, this is just as a personal preference, I'd probably do 1 piece heavy (chestpiece) in this current meta since hunding is craftable anyways. The slightly lower critical and stam consumption I think is fairly offset by the additional armor bonus (also wearing heavy offers mag/stam gen in the form of stam/mag per 5s when getting hit) Doing this will give you 4% max health (2% from undaunted 2% from heavy) 2% max magicka, 2% max stamina.

This is just an example build here using mostly same variables: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=175170
you can replace monster set with anything or just stick with slimecraw. I chose it on a whim to help with a bunch of roll sustain, but then again you don't really need the extra maggen if you're not running dark deal.

Thanks for feedback mate. I actually didnt know about that monster set. good idea tbh. The worst part about the build is the missing dark deal. or its on the overload bar. Just not sure what i could remove to get it. camo hunter is 10% crit chance. Sadly need it.

alext89

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I tried similar setup on DK and it literally evaporated people when you were lucky with crits or it sucked when crits won't happen because of how strange RNG is that you can have zero crits 5 GCD in a row with 55% crit chance... Still fun.

Also I think 22k stamina is really low, maybe it's easier to ditch protective on jewelry for triunes, distribute more attributes into stamina and go with defensive monster set (bloodspawn or 2 pieces of resistances). You will have fair chance for minor berserk from camouflaged anyway.

Maybe replace overload with temporal guard to have minor protection on you when you kite with roll-dodges on bow bar.

Good idea with the temporal guard. was unaware it gave minor protection!

mursie

cp boosts crit damage with a number of modifiers. no-cp doesn't. as a result, it feels like weapon dmg stacking is more powerful in nocp

Chilly-McFreeze

mursie wrote: »

cp boosts crit damage with a number of modifiers. no-cp doesn't. as a result, it feels like weapon dmg stacking is more powerful in nocp

That's why I'd go briarheart over Hundings for the added damage and heals.


Also Arteum Broth over DCT.

With Dunmer instead


Change from Khajiit to Orc or Dunmer for higher base damage, which will result in higher crits than Khajiit can give with it's 10%.
Change protective Jewels to Robust/ Infused and/or Triune with weapon dmg glyphs and swap Grundwolf for Blood Spawn to have higher resistance.

II'd go Vamp for regen and Undead.

Then you could even swap Senche's out for Gryphons and still have higher Crit damage because of the much stronger base damage. Altho you need to swap a dmg glyph for regen then.

With Dunmer and Gryphon

• Your Dizzy: 9237 with 94% crit damage = 17.920 damage.
• This Dizzy: 12.677 with 85% = 23.528
• Gryphon: 12.240 with 73% = 21.175

This also means you could change Rally to FM, throw RaT out and put Dark Deal in it's place.

Araviel2

mursie wrote: »

cp boosts crit damage with a number of modifiers. no-cp doesn't. as a result, it feels like weapon dmg stacking is more powerful in nocp

that is usually true Mursie, but stam sorc's also got their crit surge.
In a pure weapon dmg stacking build that skill is almost a wasted slot, but in a crit build where you can guarantee 1 crit/s
its a powerhouse that allows stam sorc's to go totally HAM.

alext I like your build, its pretty close to what i run myself.

Waffennacht

Is dunmer passive still more damage after figuring resistance and crit mitigation vs % dmg modifiers?

I'm guessing that khajiit will provide you with your opponent having 10% less critical damage mitigation (guessing because I'm not entirely sure of game order of operations with khajiit passive and crit mitigation)

While dunmer would still be effected by that same mitigation?

Probably.... But I dunno. In no CP, eliminating 10% crit damage mitigation from an opponent could be a massive advantage.

I've wanted a similar build myself

alext89

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

mursie wrote: »

cp boosts crit damage with a number of modifiers. no-cp doesn't. as a result, it feels like weapon dmg stacking is more powerful in nocp

That's why I'd go briarheart over Hundings for the added damage and heals.


Also Arteum Broth over DCT.

With Dunmer instead


Change from Khajiit to Orc or Dunmer for higher base damage, which will result in higher crits than Khajiit can give with it's 10%.
Change protective Jewels to Robust/ Infused and/or Triune with weapon dmg glyphs and swap Grundwolf for Blood Spawn to have higher resistance.

II'd go Vamp for regen and Undead.

Then you could even swap Senche's out for Gryphons and still have higher Crit damage because of the much stronger base damage. Altho you need to swap a dmg glyph for regen then.

With Dunmer and Gryphon

• Your Dizzy: 9237 with 94% crit damage = 17.920 damage.
• This Dizzy: 12.677 with 85% = 23.528
• Gryphon: 12.240 with 73% = 21.175

This also means you could change Rally to FM, throw RaT out and put Dark Deal in it's place.

This is really good stuff mate! Im more into the gryphon dumner setup now. also letting go maelstrom 2h for gryphon 2h. just 2 things im gonna think about. rally over FM. gonna be hard without that burst heal. perhaps dark deal is good enough. another thing. dunmer is 1800 more magicka. very welcome on stam sorc. Same time orc 10% sprint speed with gryphon is a hell of a lot speed for kiteing.

Chilly-McFreeze

alext89 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

mursie wrote: »

cp boosts crit damage with a number of modifiers. no-cp doesn't. as a result, it feels like weapon dmg stacking is more powerful in nocp

That's why I'd go briarheart over Hundings for the added damage and heals.


Also Arteum Broth over DCT.

With Dunmer instead


Change from Khajiit to Orc or Dunmer for higher base damage, which will result in higher crits than Khajiit can give with it's 10%.
Change protective Jewels to Robust/ Infused and/or Triune with weapon dmg glyphs and swap Grundwolf for Blood Spawn to have higher resistance.

II'd go Vamp for regen and Undead.

Then you could even swap Senche's out for Gryphons and still have higher Crit damage because of the much stronger base damage. Altho you need to swap a dmg glyph for regen then.

With Dunmer and Gryphon

• Your Dizzy: 9237 with 94% crit damage = 17.920 damage.
• This Dizzy: 12.677 with 85% = 23.528
• Gryphon: 12.240 with 73% = 21.175

This also means you could change Rally to FM, throw RaT out and put Dark Deal in it's place.

This is really good stuff mate! Im more into the gryphon dumner setup now. also letting go maelstrom 2h for gryphon 2h. just 2 things im gonna think about. rally over FM. gonna be hard without that burst heal. perhaps dark deal is good enough. another thing. dunmer is 1800 more magicka. very welcome on stam sorc. Same time orc 10% sprint speed with gryphon is a hell of a lot speed for kiteing.

You could also swap Rally/FM for Shuffle and it's AoE mitigation. On the other hand, I saw a lot of people not running any snare removal anymore, stating the snares are in control and streak helps them making space. I like to stay quick and mobile so I'd go for FM or Shuffle. But it's entirely up to you.

Maj Expedition is given by bow dodge anyway so the only thing going for RaT anymore would be the snare immu. So it comes down to you either wanting a minor endurance with a heal/ snare removal or if you want the major evasion buff.

If you can live with the lower magicka, I'd definitely go for orc. I just use dunmer in the editor because I'm to cheap to buy a race change token.

You probably know this already, but just remember that Gryphon's speed buff becomes obsolete with Hurricane active.

Chilly-McFreeze

Waffennacht wrote: »

Is dunmer passive still more damage after figuring resistance and crit mitigation vs % dmg modifiers?

I'm guessing that khajiit will provide you with your opponent having 10% less critical damage mitigation (guessing because I'm not entirely sure of game order of operations with khajiit passive and crit mitigation)

While dunmer would still be effected by that same mitigation?

Probably.... But I dunno. In no CP, eliminating 10% crit damage mitigation from an opponent could be a massive advantage.

I've wanted a similar build myself

Hm, good point. I try to compare these 3 builds. Let me know if I make wrong assumptions here.

With 7 golden impen and no cp you're at 1807 crit resist. The BE states that's 27%.

Means I simply have to substract 27% from my crit modifier. I ignore armor resistance and other mitigation modifiers here because they'd be identical for both builds.

His khajiit build sits originally at 94% - 27% = 67%. His dizzy hits for 9.237 non-crit, with 67% for 15.426.

Dunmer with same setup is 85% (shouldn't it be 84%?), means 58% left, base dmg of 12.677 = 20.029.
Dunmer with Gryphon is 73%, leaves 46%, base dmg of 12.240 = 17.870.

So at least in these 3 builds the Dunmer builds would be better.

But there are too many differences between them, it's not only the race changed. So maybe someone more knowledgeable can show us the real difference and the break even point.

alext89

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Is dunmer passive still more damage after figuring resistance and crit mitigation vs % dmg modifiers?

I'm guessing that khajiit will provide you with your opponent having 10% less critical damage mitigation (guessing because I'm not entirely sure of game order of operations with khajiit passive and crit mitigation)

While dunmer would still be effected by that same mitigation?

Probably.... But I dunno. In no CP, eliminating 10% crit damage mitigation from an opponent could be a massive advantage.

I've wanted a similar build myself

Hm, good point. I try to compare these 3 builds. Let me know if I make wrong assumptions here.

With 7 golden impen and no cp you're at 1807 crit resist. The BE states that's 27%.

Means I simply have to substract 27% from my crit modifier. I ignore armor resistance and other mitigation modifiers here because they'd be identical for both builds.

His khajiit build sits originally at 94% - 27% = 67%. His dizzy hits for 9.237 non-crit, with 67% for 15.426.

Dunmer with same setup is 85% (shouldn't it be 84%?), means 58% left, base dmg of 12.677 = 20.029.
Dunmer with Gryphon is 73%, leaves 46%, base dmg of 12.240 = 17.870.

So at least in these 3 builds the Dunmer builds would be better.

But there are too many differences between them, it's not only the race changed. So maybe someone more knowledgeable can show us the real difference and the break even point.

I just did some changes to the khajit setup. i changed monster set to pirate and lord warden for 2x resistance. Then i made jewerly robust. I went vampire and added in the minor enduance buff aswell. last i changed bow to infused for weapon damage enchant. The encreased recovery did that i change a rev glyph out with weapon damage.

the new dizzy on the khajit build is now 11055 damage. with 47% crit chance, 1700 regn and still 94% crit damage.

so 94% minus 27% = 67% dizzy hit for 11055 dmg = 18.461

alext89

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=165119

here is the khajit build changed.

alext89

This is my conclusion guys.

Since its either dark deal or rally/FM. I might aswell lose rally/FM for race against time.

So the most damage setup will be dunmer briarhart + senche. 84% crit damage. dizzy swing at 12370 with the way i balanced it. + it got maelstrom dot from crit rush.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=175645

i will stack a bit more magic into this setup. since i got so many mag skills now.