[Undaunted Keys] At 5 keys - who's using it and how do you feel about the cost

Dusk_Coven

Based on the results you are getting, is the cost fair?

FrancisCrawford

Why is this question limited to people who use it?

It's an easy calculation to make.

• If you only value one monster set from a given pledge giver, and all others are useless to you, then this is probably a good deal.
• Ditto if you value two that happen to come from the same pair of dungeons.
• In almost any other scenario, using the 5-key option is a horribly bad idea.

Personally, I still have numerous monster sets with non-ideal shoulders. And I have fewer than 300 keys stashed away. So I can't afford to waste keys on this stupid option.

Vildebill

For me it's great, finally an option to likely get what shoulder you want. But I'm practically swimming in keys, so I might be a little bit biased.

starkerealm

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Based on the results you are getting, is the cost fair?

Five keys for a specific dungeon pair? Yes. You're (basically) never going to be in a situation where you're looking at monster sets and saying, "yeah, any of those dozen sets will work for me."

For example, you're never going to be in a position where, Slimecraw, Maw of the Infernal, Krag, Engine Guardian, and Bogdan are all equally appealing. If you're starting from nothing and trying to build a collection, sure, one key at a time may be more appealing, but realistically, players don't do that. We're looking for specific monsters. Each chest (except Urgalarg) has 12 sets. As anyone chasing a set has learned the hard way, the single key chests were quite happy to drown you in shoulders you didn't care about while chasing the ones you did want. This means the 5 key chests are a 1:6 chance of getting you the weight and set you want, where under the single key chests, that was a 1:36 chance. And if you don't care about weight, or are flexible with your build options, that's a coin flip to get the right set instead of, again, a 1:12.

The 5 key chests are absolutely worth it if you have a set in mind. Truth is, people don't chase any monster set, they're looking for specific sets for their builds, and this supports that enormously.

virtus753

Assuming actually random RNG and that you only want one set in one weight, the difference in options is about 3.5% (for non-DLC):

If you use the 5-key option, you have a 1/6 chance of getting the right set and weight you’re chasing. In other words, that’s a 5/6 chance (83.33%) of *not* getting the right set and weight.

By using 5 single keys, you should have a (35/36)^5 chance of not pulling the right set and weight at all across those 5 pulls. That should be 86.86%. So the 5-key option does have better odds of getting the right set and weight at least once but not by a huge amount (16.67% as compared to 13.14%).

The DLC chest should have an 88.65% ([41/42]^5) chance of not dropping the right set and weight when using 5 single keys, at least until ICP and WGT move (if they do). Each new pair of additions to the DLC chest will make the 5-key option an even better bet.

But single pulls also have a chance of dropping the current Undaunted shoulder style page, which I believe the specific coffers do not, in addition to Mercenary motifs and other drops. That may be something to consider as well, depending on your willingness to risk RNG and how satisfied you would be getting extra drops to use or sell even if you didn’t get the shoulder piece you wanted.

starkerealm

virtus753 wrote: »

But single pulls also have a chance of dropping the current Undaunted shoulder style page, which I believe the specific coffers do not...

They are supposed to, if, the style page comes from one of the dungeons contained within. For example, the Veli shoulder page can drop from the Hist packs, but cannot drop from the Imperial City packs. Sort of like how the Maj chest could never contain a Veli page.

That said, I do not know if the drop rates for the pages differ between coffers. So I don't know if the 5 key coffers have a higher drop rate for the shoulder pages, or if it's the same as the 1 key coffers. That's going to take a lot of testing to sort out. If you don't care about the shoulders, and just want the style page, I'd say go for the 1 key grab bags.

Also, unless you're trying to stay 7/0/0 with your armor, either off-weight will work on the shoulders, bringing the key payouts to 1:3. In contrast to the normal situations where it becomes a 1:18 chance. (If my math is off, it's late and been a very long day.)

At that point, getting the helm in the right weight is much easier than fishing out the right shoulders, even at 5 keys a piece.

CynicK

Well when i red of the change saved all my keys for those 5 key bags and I have been supper lucky each set I wanted to complete of the weight i wanted or that served me and only one time i had to buy two and good traits. I just want specific shoulders not dozens from sets I will never use, I already have enought problem at the bank, so for me it is fantastic the old way would had been a waste of keys for me.

Nemesis7884

starkerealm wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Based on the results you are getting, is the cost fair?

Five keys for a specific dungeon pair? Yes. You're (basically) never going to be in a situation where you're looking at monster sets and saying, "yeah, any of those dozen sets will work for me."

For example, you're never going to be in a position where, Slimecraw, Maw of the Infernal, Krag, Engine Guardian, and Bogdan are all equally appealing. If you're starting from nothing and trying to build a collection, sure, one key at a time may be more appealing, but realistically, players don't do that. We're looking for specific monsters. Each chest (except Urgalarg) has 12 sets. As anyone chasing a set has learned the hard way, the single key chests were quite happy to drown you in shoulders you didn't care about while chasing the ones you did want. This means the 5 key chests are a 1:6 chance of getting you the weight and set you want, where under the single key chests, that was a 1:36 chance. And if you don't care about weight, or are flexible with your build options, that's a coin flip to get the right set instead of, again, a 1:12.

The 5 key chests are absolutely worth it if you have a set in mind. Truth is, people don't chase any monster set, they're looking for specific sets for their builds, and this supports that enormously.

depends on the nr of characters you are or will be playing...if u have a lot of alts id rather go with the 1 key option an start building my stash

LadyNalcarya

I think it's great, I'm usually unlucky when it comes to rng and getting a guaranteed set piece is a major QoL change for me.

starkerealm

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Based on the results you are getting, is the cost fair?

Five keys for a specific dungeon pair? Yes. You're (basically) never going to be in a situation where you're looking at monster sets and saying, "yeah, any of those dozen sets will work for me."

For example, you're never going to be in a position where, Slimecraw, Maw of the Infernal, Krag, Engine Guardian, and Bogdan are all equally appealing. If you're starting from nothing and trying to build a collection, sure, one key at a time may be more appealing, but realistically, players don't do that. We're looking for specific monsters. Each chest (except Urgalarg) has 12 sets. As anyone chasing a set has learned the hard way, the single key chests were quite happy to drown you in shoulders you didn't care about while chasing the ones you did want. This means the 5 key chests are a 1:6 chance of getting you the weight and set you want, where under the single key chests, that was a 1:36 chance. And if you don't care about weight, or are flexible with your build options, that's a coin flip to get the right set instead of, again, a 1:12.

The 5 key chests are absolutely worth it if you have a set in mind. Truth is, people don't chase any monster set, they're looking for specific sets for their builds, and this supports that enormously.

depends on the nr of characters you are or will be playing...if u have a lot of alts id rather go with the 1 key option an start building my stash

Yeah, the economy really depends on how much of the drop pool appeals to you. Though, the situations where you'd be happy with most of the stuff that came out of the coffers is pretty rare. Though it does run against conventional wisdom we built up in the past. Used to be, yeah, "take whatever you get, hoard it, even if you don't want it, because replacing it could be extremely expensive." But, that's not really true now. Simply replacing a shoulder for a set shouldn't take too many keys. Getting the right weight could take a minute, and finding a house with a transmute station (if you don't have CWC) is an issue, but, on the whole? No, it's much cheaper to replace monster set pieces now.

Now, I would welcome being able to pick the specific piece at an increased price. For example, "Heavy Veli," for 25 keys, but, this is what we have.