Stamina DK performance in Scalebreaker

sly007

After playing the new scalebreaker patch on my stamina DK, the only complaint I have is my inability to heal my allies reliably. Using echoing vigor would mean I myself would die from a weaker self heal. The dot damage buff, albeit atrocious to deal with, I think is healthier for the game. Healers have become a precious commodity that everyone welcomes, regardless of group or solo play.
Here are some clips of my stamina dk in both heavy and medium.

https://youtu.be/rRg0atl2gxI

chrightt

Yeah, I don’t even need to watch the vid to know what happens. With a stamDK of my own I still think it’s OP prescalebreaker and remains top tier now.

Firstmep

The Vigor changes make stam smallscaling pretty hard, even worse in a full stam grp in bgs, you just cant heal anyone.

On dk you may proc cauterise on an ally every now and then but its nothing compared to what magicka can do sadly..

irstarkey57

It’s all about the Magplar. Magplar running away with this meta.

GhostofDatthaw

Lawl Stam players can't stack vigors now and are crying. Stop it, you have a class maj mending. No other Stam class has that, and mag specs, besides magdk, have to use brp resto to match your healing

Ragnarock41

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Lawl Stam players can't stack vigors now and are crying. Stop it, you have a class maj mending. No other Stam class has that, and mag specs, besides magdk, have to use brp resto to match your healing

So you are implying that hypermobile mega damage classes like sorcs and nbs deserve also stamDk levels of self healing without investing anything?

OP is not crying, you are crying. StamDk was and still is a selfish class without a way of justifying his existance in a group. Not dying easily is not a valueable asset to a small scale group unless its paired with something else(purges ans heals in case of a magplar). Vigor stacking was one of the ways it shined in group play and now its gone.

GhostofDatthaw

@Ragnarock41 I'm not sure how having to farm a 4an trial to find a staff, slot a specific skill, use a one bar arena set so you need to have a single bar 5 pc set. For 3s of a buff is "without investing anything"

GhostofDatthaw

I mean honestly by that logic I could complain about how dks get stupid high physical damage because the heavy armor damage sets "without investing anything"

WizardCawk

For 1vX, have you guys found the 2h+bow or 2h+sb better this patch. I see a lot of bow builds floating around but, when I switched to it I felt like I died way to easy to groups and nightblades, so switched back to sb.

sly007

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Lawl Stam players can't stack vigors now and are crying. Stop it, you have a class maj mending. No other Stam class has that, and mag specs, besides magdk, have to use brp resto to match your healing

Dk always had major mending. The same talking point is used to prevent or, in vigor's case, to nerf skills. Make a valid point.

GhostofDatthaw

sly007 wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Lawl Stam players can't stack vigors now and are crying. Stop it, you have a class maj mending. No other Stam class has that, and mag specs, besides magdk, have to use brp resto to match your healing

Dk always had major mending. The same talking point is used to prevent or, in vigor's case, to nerf skills. Make a valid point.

So you having the best self heals for Stam is not a valid point?

This is the problem with this game, y'all want every class to have every buff and do everything. It's why classes are homogeneous now and the game sucks. If you want to heal allies play a healer if you want to tank play a tank if you want to deal damage play a dps. This do everything "I can't heal my allies in a dps build" stuff is illogical and why this game has turned for the worse

GhostofDatthaw

And as far as @Ragnarock41 says "they are a selfish class" are they more selfish then night blades? Don't think so...

sly007

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Lawl Stam players can't stack vigors now and are crying. Stop it, you have a class maj mending. No other Stam class has that, and mag specs, besides magdk, have to use brp resto to match your healing

Dk always had major mending. The same talking point is used to prevent or, in vigor's case, to nerf skills. Make a valid point.

So you having the best self heals for Stam is not a valid point?

This is the problem with this game, y'all want every class to have every buff and do everything. It's why classes are homogeneous now and the game sucks. If you want to heal allies play a healer if you want to tank play a tank if you want to deal damage play a dps. This do everything "I can't heal my allies in a dps build" stuff is illogical and why this game has turned for the worse

Noone in this discussion said they want every class to have every buff. On the contrary, you are attacking stamina dk because it has an on demand major mending, which makes it different from other stamina set ups.

Noone attacks stamplar for having the best purge of an stamina build, or stam sorcerer for having the best mobility of any stamina build. The major of focus is that dot damage is incredible difficult to survive. They were over buffed. Sure, it makes healers more sought after, which I already said is healthier for the game, but needing a healer and dots dealing about more damage are two different problems.

The nerf to healing without the buff to dots would still make healers useful. Both simply propels tanker setups.

GhostofDatthaw

He literally said "the only complaint I have is my inability to heal my allies reliably"

....

....

You're a Stam dps spec... Why would you have good group healing potential? As I said it's illogical and the reason this game has gone down the crapper

Edit and for what it's worth, keep the maj mending and dragon blood heals, keep the solo target vigor. Vigor stacking with the ability to stack it on pure high damage builds was broken and anyone who can't admit that it was horrible game design I just will never understand.

Lokey0024

Anyone tried running Chudan and GDB instead of volatile? Then a new lingering health Stam pot with major vitality along with everything. Basically god mode.

Makes medium builds viable strong.

sly007

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Anyone tried running Chudan and GDB instead of volatile? Then a new lingering health Stam pot with major vitality along with everything. Basically god mode.

Makes medium builds viable strong.

You will lose 12% healing recieved unless you use dragon blood.

Fur_like_snow

My stamDK build is exactly the same from last patch. Though I did swap noxious for ransack for a bit to see if the minor protection was a better trade for the DPS.

As far as the vigor change is concerned I think it was fine last patch and didn’t need changed. On one hand I have a stronger self heal on the downside I can’t heal my allies as easily so that hurts group play. They should have just changed one morph to work like the new RR and allow it too target yourself and another player in group. Thought I was gonna get pushed into running TK but that hasn’t been my experience.

DemonDruaga

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

You're a Stam dps spec... Why would you have good group healing potential? As I said it's illogical and the reason this game has gone crapper

Well to be fair, magicka specs could do that always better and still can. You know, dropping shields, hots and burst heals on their buddies, while still beeing in a dmg setup.. stamina had this one vigor skill and that was about it for a long time.
At some point there came warden with a stam aoe heal and yeah.

Tbh what is wrong with people wanna be usefull to their group, apart from just adding one more soldier?
And currently stam dk really doesn't bring anything anymore. The minor brutality can be provided by a mag dk, which can bring in mag based heals on top of its dmg.

So theres really not much stam dks, or stam specs in general bring to their group, that their magicka counter part couldn't do better

bakermir

As a stamdk main here is my perspective this patch for overall BGs, PvX and duels;


Heavy builds

• Removal of weave slash bash playstyle was a big nerf but new onslaught/dizzy is a good replacement.
  
• Nerf to 7th leaves stamdk with one less set in their arsenal
  
• In nocp pvp the increased dot damage and dot spam is really hard to heal against as snb/2h unless you are argonian. It seems fine in cp campaign.
  
• In nocp pvp stamdk cant compete as good as a stamden and magplar. stamsorcs are always overlooked but they are still S tier too.
  
• In cp pvp, stamdk performs well against all except magplar.
  
• Basically it is really hard and almost impossible to PvX in nocp as stamdk anymore while in CP they can do it perfectly.

Medium builds

• it is just suicide at this point for stamdk.

Lets not forget, nerf to protective trait weakened all races except nord.


The game is in a sad state now regarding balance.

Lokey0024

sly007 wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Anyone tried running Chudan and GDB instead of volatile? Then a new lingering health Stam pot with major vitality along with everything. Basically god mode.

Makes medium builds viable strong.

You will lose 12% healing recieved unless you use dragon blood.

GDB-green dragons blood. Has minor vitality and Stam regen.

Could run a powered Heal bow (+8%) and stack even more while you Rolly Polly around.

Lokey0024

bakermir wrote: »

As a stamdk main here is my perspective this patch for overall BGs, PvX and duels;


Heavy builds

• Removal of weave slash bash playstyle was a big nerf but new onslaught/dizzy is a good replacement.
  
• Nerf to 7th leaves stamdk with one less set in their arsenal
  
• In nocp pvp the increased dot damage and dot spam is really hard to heal against as snb/2h unless you are argonian. It seems fine in cp campaign.
  
• In nocp pvp stamdk cant compete as good as a stamden and magplar. stamsorcs are always overlooked but they are still S tier too.
  
• In cp pvp, stamdk performs well against all except magplar.
  
• Basically it is really hard and almost impossible to PvX in nocp as stamdk anymore while in CP they can do it perfectly.

Medium builds

• it is just suicide at this point for stamdk.

Lets not forget, nerf to protective trait weakened all races except nord.


The game is in a sad state now regarding balance.

Good points, only one I disagree with is medium not being viable. Just have to think outside the box and get the gear.

Rhaegar75

Lokey0024 wrote: »

bakermir wrote: »

As a stamdk main here is my perspective this patch for overall BGs, PvX and duels;


Heavy builds

• Removal of weave slash bash playstyle was a big nerf but new onslaught/dizzy is a good replacement.
  
• Nerf to 7th leaves stamdk with one less set in their arsenal
  
• In nocp pvp the increased dot damage and dot spam is really hard to heal against as snb/2h unless you are argonian. It seems fine in cp campaign.
  
• In nocp pvp stamdk cant compete as good as a stamden and magplar. stamsorcs are always overlooked but they are still S tier too.
  
• In cp pvp, stamdk performs well against all except magplar.
  
• Basically it is really hard and almost impossible to PvX in nocp as stamdk anymore while in CP they can do it perfectly.

Medium builds

• it is just suicide at this point for stamdk.

d

Lets not forget, nerf to protective trait weakened all races except nord.


The game is in a sad state now regarding balance.

Good points, only one I disagree with is medium not being viable. Just have to think outside the box and get the gear.

indeed. Medium builds are fine...just learn to use a different playstyle! I'm fine with medium builds actually: 2H and bow

GhostofDatthaw

DemonDruaga wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

You're a Stam dps spec... Why would you have good group healing potential? As I said it's illogical and the reason this game has gone crapper

Well to be fair, magicka specs could do that always better and still can. You know, dropping shields, hots and burst heals on their buddies, while still beeing in a dmg setup.. stamina had this one vigor skill and that was about it for a long time.
At some point there came warden with a stam aoe heal and yeah.

Tbh what is wrong with people wanna be usefull to their group, apart from just adding one more soldier?
And currently stam dk really doesn't bring anything anymore. The minor brutality can be provided by a mag dk, which can bring in mag based heals on top of its dmg.

So theres really not much stam dks, or stam specs in general bring to their group, that their magicka counter part couldn't do better

Magicka may heal better now but that is wrong to say they always have. The 6 man guild vs guild tournaments were always like 5-6 Stam Bois with maybe 1 pocket Templar. And as of now mag does heal better, but why should it not? If a mag toon slots a restoration staff and healing spells why is it strange that he heals well?

I also don't understand how you think we are able to Shield allies. We have what ward ally? Doesn't even heal. Also in order to take advantage of strong Shields you have to max out Magicka, yes that helps with your offensive potential, but it does not buff your heals you need spell damage to buff heals. So in the aspect of max damage builds and healing it just doesn't work the same way as vigor stacking did.

I do agree about bringing more to groups, but that can be done with synnergies and buff or what have you. I still firmly believe that Stam toons should not bring strong group heals. Just my opinion

MentalxHammer

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

bakermir wrote: »

As a stamdk main here is my perspective this patch for overall BGs, PvX and duels;


Heavy builds

• Removal of weave slash bash playstyle was a big nerf but new onslaught/dizzy is a good replacement.
  
• Nerf to 7th leaves stamdk with one less set in their arsenal
  
• In nocp pvp the increased dot damage and dot spam is really hard to heal against as snb/2h unless you are argonian. It seems fine in cp campaign.
  
• In nocp pvp stamdk cant compete as good as a stamden and magplar. stamsorcs are always overlooked but they are still S tier too.
  
• In cp pvp, stamdk performs well against all except magplar.
  
• Basically it is really hard and almost impossible to PvX in nocp as stamdk anymore while in CP they can do it perfectly.

Medium builds

• it is just suicide at this point for stamdk.

d

Lets not forget, nerf to protective trait weakened all races except nord.


The game is in a sad state now regarding balance.

Good points, only one I disagree with is medium not being viable. Just have to think outside the box and get the gear.

indeed. Medium builds are fine...just learn to use a different playstyle! I'm fine with medium builds actually: 2H and bow

Agreed, I've been testing medium and it's easy to hit 28k res's plus 28k hp, heavy almost seems silly to me when you add movement speed cap, crazy sustain and 8k dizzy swing potential to medium.

sly007

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

bakermir wrote: »

As a stamdk main here is my perspective this patch for overall BGs, PvX and duels;


Heavy builds

• Removal of weave slash bash playstyle was a big nerf but new onslaught/dizzy is a good replacement.
  
• Nerf to 7th leaves stamdk with one less set in their arsenal
  
• In nocp pvp the increased dot damage and dot spam is really hard to heal against as snb/2h unless you are argonian. It seems fine in cp campaign.
  
• In nocp pvp stamdk cant compete as good as a stamden and magplar. stamsorcs are always overlooked but they are still S tier too.
  
• In cp pvp, stamdk performs well against all except magplar.
  
• Basically it is really hard and almost impossible to PvX in nocp as stamdk anymore while in CP they can do it perfectly.

Medium builds

• it is just suicide at this point for stamdk.

d

Lets not forget, nerf to protective trait weakened all races except nord.


The game is in a sad state now regarding balance.

Good points, only one I disagree with is medium not being viable. Just have to think outside the box and get the gear.

indeed. Medium builds are fine...just learn to use a different playstyle! I'm fine with medium builds actually: 2H and bow

Agreed, I've been testing medium and it's easy to hit 28k res's plus 28k hp, heavy almost seems silly to me when you add movement speed cap, crazy sustain and 8k dizzy swing potential to medium.

I tried both heavy and medium. Medium is fine until I run into a 1v1 against a high pressure cheese build. You know, minor and major defile with dots for days or players using four 25k plus dots. Healing because difficult and sustain doesnt matter because you cannot dodge the dots. You have to simply face tank and keep your heals up 100% of the time.

Kadoin

DemonDruaga wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

You're a Stam dps spec... Why would you have good group healing potential? As I said it's illogical and the reason this game has gone crapper

Well to be fair, magicka specs could do that always better and still can. You know, dropping shields, hots and burst heals on their buddies, while still beeing in a dmg setup.. stamina had this one vigor skill and that was about it for a long time.
At some point there came warden with a stam aoe heal and yeah.

Yet, mag heals and shields can be negated and stam ones could not, and probably still cannot, making them better and more valuable when stacked than mag heals that cost more. Not to mention the standard AoE heal (healing springs, illustrious healing) got nerfed and probably isn't even slotted anymore in PvP except by a few because proc sets can heal better than most mag players can. And not to mention any real healing build won't be dishing damage out on the level of a stam DD, won't be sustaining it, won't have enough crit for the heals to even be relevant, or won't have enough stam to not be eliminated after a few CC cycles. Hmm...

Oh right, reality is a bad thing to bring to the forums. Yeah, its better to make it a mag v. stam thing and pretend to be looking for balance...

blistb16_ESO

every stam dk I know use the same build, so much for variety

MentalxHammer

sly007 wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

bakermir wrote: »

As a stamdk main here is my perspective this patch for overall BGs, PvX and duels;


Heavy builds

• Removal of weave slash bash playstyle was a big nerf but new onslaught/dizzy is a good replacement.
  
• Nerf to 7th leaves stamdk with one less set in their arsenal
  
• In nocp pvp the increased dot damage and dot spam is really hard to heal against as snb/2h unless you are argonian. It seems fine in cp campaign.
  
• In nocp pvp stamdk cant compete as good as a stamden and magplar. stamsorcs are always overlooked but they are still S tier too.
  
• In cp pvp, stamdk performs well against all except magplar.
  
• Basically it is really hard and almost impossible to PvX in nocp as stamdk anymore while in CP they can do it perfectly.

Medium builds

• it is just suicide at this point for stamdk.

d

Lets not forget, nerf to protective trait weakened all races except nord.


The game is in a sad state now regarding balance.

Good points, only one I disagree with is medium not being viable. Just have to think outside the box and get the gear.

indeed. Medium builds are fine...just learn to use a different playstyle! I'm fine with medium builds actually: 2H and bow

Agreed, I've been testing medium and it's easy to hit 28k res's plus 28k hp, heavy almost seems silly to me when you add movement speed cap, crazy sustain and 8k dizzy swing potential to medium.

I tried both heavy and medium. Medium is fine until I run into a 1v1 against a high pressure cheese build. You know, minor and major defile with dots for days or players using four 25k plus dots. Healing because difficult and sustain doesnt matter because you cannot dodge the dots. You have to simply face tank and keep your heals up 100% of the time.

I have ran into said issues, this patch I'm using chudan and green dragon blood instead of BS and hardened armor, chudan setup allows you to use lingering vitality pots, this stacks major and minor vitality, plus the dk 12% healing passive you hit 50% healing recieved! With 150% strength lingering pots dots are a non issue. Not to mention the 25% healing dealt from fragmented shield, and the residual healing from cauterize.

Surviving in medium is easy, you just need to get creative now that protective is nerfed, one piece chudan and nord gets you to 28k resistances.

Lokey0024

MentalxHammer wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

bakermir wrote: »

As a stamdk main here is my perspective this patch for overall BGs, PvX and duels;


Heavy builds

• Removal of weave slash bash playstyle was a big nerf but new onslaught/dizzy is a good replacement.
  
• Nerf to 7th leaves stamdk with one less set in their arsenal
  
• In nocp pvp the increased dot damage and dot spam is really hard to heal against as snb/2h unless you are argonian. It seems fine in cp campaign.
  
• In nocp pvp stamdk cant compete as good as a stamden and magplar. stamsorcs are always overlooked but they are still S tier too.
  
• In cp pvp, stamdk performs well against all except magplar.
  
• Basically it is really hard and almost impossible to PvX in nocp as stamdk anymore while in CP they can do it perfectly.

Medium builds

• it is just suicide at this point for stamdk.

d

Lets not forget, nerf to protective trait weakened all races except nord.


The game is in a sad state now regarding balance.

Good points, only one I disagree with is medium not being viable. Just have to think outside the box and get the gear.

indeed. Medium builds are fine...just learn to use a different playstyle! I'm fine with medium builds actually: 2H and bow

Agreed, I've been testing medium and it's easy to hit 28k res's plus 28k hp, heavy almost seems silly to me when you add movement speed cap, crazy sustain and 8k dizzy swing potential to medium.

I tried both heavy and medium. Medium is fine until I run into a 1v1 against a high pressure cheese build. You know, minor and major defile with dots for days or players using four 25k plus dots. Healing because difficult and sustain doesnt matter because you cannot dodge the dots. You have to simply face tank and keep your heals up 100% of the time.

I have ran into said issues, this patch I'm using chudan and green dragon blood instead of BS and hardened armor, chudan setup allows you to use lingering vitality pots, this stacks major and minor vitality, plus the dk 12% healing passive you hit 50% healing recieved! With 150% strength lingering pots dots are a non issue. Not to mention the 25% healing dealt from fragmented shield, and the residual healing from cauterize.

Surviving in medium is easy, you just need to get creative now that protective is nerfed, one piece chudan and nord gets you to 28k resistances.

Tried to convey the same idea but this was way more articulate lol. Good Stuff

Xvorg

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

He literally said "the only complaint I have is my inability to heal my allies reliably"

....

....

You're a Stam dps spec... Why would you have good group healing potential? As I said it's illogical and the reason this game has gone down the crapper

Edit and for what it's worth, keep the maj mending and dragon blood heals, keep the solo target vigor. Vigor stacking with the ability to stack it on pure high damage builds was broken and anyone who can't admit that it was horrible game design I just will never understand.

I think you don't get it. What he wants is to be useful to its group. The nerf to vigor has make him kind of useless. All classes should be able to give something to group play and stamDK was one of the healing classes. Then your complaint is absolutely out of place, what's the point on a class with major mending if it's unable to take advantage of the buff to heal allies?

GhostofDatthaw

Xvorg wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

He literally said "the only complaint I have is my inability to heal my allies reliably"

....

....

You're a Stam dps spec... Why would you have good group healing potential? As I said it's illogical and the reason this game has gone down the crapper

Edit and for what it's worth, keep the maj mending and dragon blood heals, keep the solo target vigor. Vigor stacking with the ability to stack it on pure high damage builds was broken and anyone who can't admit that it was horrible game design I just will never understand.

I think you don't get it. What he wants is to be useful to its group. The nerf to vigor has make him kind of useless. All classes should be able to give something to group play and stamDK was one of the healing classes. Then your complaint is absolutely out of place, what's the point on a class with major mending if it's unable to take advantage of the buff to heal allies?

I don't think you get it, a Stam dps should not have group heals. And the point of mending? Ummmm it gives you the best heals of any Stam spec. If you actually read my other post I agree every class should bring something to a group and zos has failed in doing so. But it's just really dumb game design for Stam dps specs to out heal friggin actual healers because they can just stack vigors on dps specs.