I Am Done BGs

Wayshuba

Sorry Zos. You took my favorite part of the game and completely obliterated it with the Scalebreaker patch. Nice going.

And before you think I am one of those "the sky is falling types" go and look at my forum history. I have always defended the changes because it is a fact of life in MMOs, but you guys really seem to not know what you were doing when it comes to PvP with this patch.

Eclipse was utterly an asinine change for PvP. I have no idea what anyone was even thinking with this one.

And you might want to look at the MASSIVE proliferation of Dizzy Swing, Soul Trap and Entropy to realize just how bad you screwed this up.

I have been calm through all the changes but this time I am furious about how much you upended the dang game in just one patch. You have got to be kidding me.

redspecter23

As upset as you are about these changes, I assure you there were many people equally upset with all the changes you defended in the past. A change is just something to adapt to until it's a change with a massive negative effect to the one experiencing it. The impact will vary from person to person. This is the change that got to you. There will be plenty of people defending this particular change that will at some point have something else that negatively affects them more in the future.

Solariken

I do hate the new perma-root Living Dark, but I love D-Swing and feel like it's perfectly balanced now.

Most of the other changes have been fine with me. Healers are still aids but that's nothing new vs last patch.

ChunkyCat

If it’s not aids, it’s cancer.

It’s always something :shrug:

BaByDontHurtMe

Come over to open world. Change can be good.

Waffennacht

I'm personally glad more builds have access to dot damage.

Most notably the classes that you never saw used.

Makes me wonder if it's just class envy

UrbanMonk

Imagine my pain as a MagWarden with No reliable CC/Stun with Clench changes. I keep getting CC and hit with 10 different things with barely anything to counter that and dont forget self healing is as *** as it was.

MaxJrFTW

I stopped doing bgs completely after the patch. Spent a bit over a week in cyro, did a bit of everything, from zerging to small scale, and solo 1vx. Made 5.1m ap which had me in 1st place. In other words, i gave open world a proper chance. The lag makes it unbearable and i'm not going to play through the lag when there's so many games out there

My ESO days are counted. I'm a bit of a lore nerd so i'm going to finish the couple of questlines i have left before i call it.

ChunkyCat

Nerd.

MaxJrFTW

ToxicPAWS wrote: »

Imagine my pain as a MagWarden with No reliable CC/Stun with Clench changes. I keep getting CC and hit with 10 different things with barely anything to counter that and dont forget self healing is as *** as it was.

Arctic blast is not a reliable stun? Complain if you must, but not about lack of a reliable stun. This complain would be valid if we were talking about magnecros, but not magdens...

NinchiTV

Embrace it, adapt or die. Play something that can purge as thats the best counter to DOTs. Or wear a set that can purge. Everybody has access to some pretty damn good healing which is the second best counter to DOTs. And I did die (1st day I got frustrated because flame clench is really pathetic now and the dots were kicking my ass) today though I adapted and sacrificed my ulti gen (bitter harvest) my CC (flame clench) mobility (mist form - which also sucks now) for my purge and entropy. Then I embraced the meta and put on soul trap (easy replacement for clench)

Vermethys

The first few games I played were awful and I was melting within seconds of being out in the open (despite being in Heavy Armor). After a short period of trial and error, I switched from my usual mundus (the Warrior) to the Steed/Lady. I also started using Lingering Health Potions (the Elsweyr ones) instead of Immovable or Weapon Crit potions. BGs are still playable, you just have to invest in more defense.

Daemonai

If I never hear the Dizzying Swing sound effect again it will be too soon. DS spam is so artless, boring, and (sadly) effective.

BNOC

3 procs might be too strong but people are more than capable of running a snare immunity (Or alternatively, bathe) like Templars have had to for a long time - That's how we've had to deal with grasp, ice and so on - Snare immunity or cleanse and have it instantly reapplied - You'll all get used to it.

ToxicPAWS wrote: »

Imagine my pain as a MagWarden with No reliable CC/Stun with Clench changes. I keep getting CC and hit with 10 different things with barely anything to counter that and dont forget self healing is as *** as it was.

Run a fire staff or AB if you want your stun and have you tried Crystallized Slab?

jadarock

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

My ESO days are counted. I'm a bit of a lore nerd so i'm going to finish the couple of questlines i have left before i call it.

Can I have your stuff?

Wayshuba

Vermethys wrote: »

The first few games I played were awful and I was melting within seconds of being out in the open (despite being in Heavy Armor). After a short period of trial and error, I switched from my usual mundus (the Warrior) to the Steed/Lady. I also started using Lingering Health Potions (the Elsweyr ones) instead of Immovable or Weapon Crit potions. BGs are still playable, you just have to invest in more defense.

I have played plenty of BGs since they launched with Morrowind. Furthermore, it is not necessarily that I am getting beat. My issue is how BORING they have become because of the proliferation of DS, Entropy, and Soul Trap. It is plain stupid.

As far as playing, if I play on my Magplar or Stamden I am rolling through people like they are toilet paper. It shouldn't be that way. Sure, I can just go along with this patches meta, play either of them, and just keep rolling over people. What fun, or challenge, is that? I want to play a variety of classes but this patches meta has really homogenized (read - made extremely boring) play.

I am not frustrated because I haven't adapted. But there used to be some diversity in BGs, now they have become so predictable and boring.

Ucarious

Why do I feel like the people complaining the most about the changes are the ones refusing to revamp their builds to suit the "meta"? Honestly, you do realize Hist and Curse Eater sets exist right? Sure you lose out on some of your previous patches build damage but from the looks of PvP in this new patch, straight damage isn't the way to go anymore but a balance of defense and damage.


P.S. I don't play the 3 meta classes (DK, Warden and Templar) so drop that assumption before you even make it.

Rikumaru

Agree with living dark and especially DoTs being OP, but DS I don't see an issue with. It has actual counterplay (tapping block / dodging) and also promotes a more bursty game which is infinitely better than everyone being tanky.

Trancestor

Solariken wrote: »

I do hate the new perma-root Living Dark, but I love D-Swing and feel like it's perfectly balanced now.

Most of the other changes have been fine with me. Healers are still aids but that's nothing new vs last patch.

A practically insta cast spammable that deals 40%+ more dmg than any other spammable and stuns at the same time is balanced ok.

chrightt

I totally agree. Right now I see the issue with all of the skills you pointed out in BG myself.
Eclipse: enough said. Broken skill.
Entropy/soul trap: while on its own is not very dangerous, a group of enemies that doesn't require any skill applying DoTs on you over and over again while most classes don't have any way to purge these effects makes DoT damage stack up easily, killing you even when you run/heal away.
Dizzying Swing: I guess it is harder for most people, especially stam users to catch on why this is an issue. I play multiple accounts in BG and first up I have to say Dizzying Swing promotes a tankier build in general, NOT:

Rikumaru wrote: »

It has actual counterplay (tapping block / dodging) and also promotes a more bursty game which is infinitely better than everyone being tanky.

pre-load dizzying swing onto an enemy wearing semi-tanky light armor or glass medium armor for example will result in dizzying swing => dizzying swing (while animation break) => execute. They're dead. If they're wearing non-tanky light armor I have been able to 2 shot glass light armor users => dizzying swing + executioner (this is pretty much a true combo with them dying as animation break ends) and before they can use their next move after animation break because dizzying swing has a "cast time" allowing you to skill your next skill faster. With the amount of CCs (especially from fossilized, eclipse, dizzying swing, toppling charge) that is all over BG and a bunch of new fear/snares (especially from necro) the higher MMR BG meta is shifting way more heavily to Stam classes rather than mag classes. This is especially more true for solo queue as mag users (mostly apart from magplar of course) because it is much harder to carry a team due to the fact that mag classes just don't work as well in a meta where you need to CC break and dodge roll more often combined with the fact that every melee user with 2h now can basically 2-3 shot you if they know what they're doing. There is no efficient way to escape since they have stampede/critical charge/toppling charge for magplars.

Ucarious wrote: »

Why do I feel like the people complaining the most about the changes are the ones refusing to revamp their builds to suit the "meta"? Honestly, you do realize Hist and Curse Eater sets exist right? Sure you lose out on some of your previous patches build damage but from the looks of PvP in this new patch, straight damage isn't the way to go anymore but a balance of defense and damage.

As for this, I'm guessing you don't really play BG or play BG at a more competitive level and the sets you suggest do not resolve anything. If you run curse eater as a magclass (because running curse eater as a stam class is ludicrous) you now lose a 5/5 DPS set slot that uses spell critical which is weaker than spell damage/max magicka in PVP most of the time. This means that your other set must be pseudo tanky IF you're planning to run light armor. This will result in 2 shot dizzy swings so good luck. If your other set is running heavy armor for example, your curse eater set will not provide enough damage to DPS anyone semi-tanky (not even fully tanky down), making your trades really really bad.

Robes of the Hist is garbage because it doesn't save you from any stam-bursts that is proliferating the BG at the moment. Fortified Brass works about a billion times better than Robes of the Hist. However, once again, you run into the dilemma of being tanky enough but not damage-y enough. If you've fought stamdens or stamDKs or magplars, as you diligently pointed out are meta classes, then you will find yourself dealing less damage than them and tanking less than them assuming those players are just half-assed competent.

Long story short, the skill changes this patch not only homogenized skills but also narrowed down the range of potential builds due to the nature of such skills proliferating throughout BG and even in some extent in Cyrodiil. BGs definitely took a bigger hit and stam classes + magplar usually > other mag classes for score/carry in BG atm (this is more true the higher MMR you go and the less pre-made your team is).

irstarkey57

redspecter23 wrote: »

As upset as you are about these changes, I assure you there were many people equally upset with all the changes you defended in the past. A change is just something to adapt to until it's a change with a massive negative effect to the one experiencing it. The impact will vary from person to person. This is the change that got to you. There will be plenty of people defending this particular change that will at some point have something else that negatively affects them more in the future.

Nah, OP is right. The changes this patch are the worst they have been ever. Magplars are so blatantly over powered it’s nit even funny. Magsorcs are up there too but they always have been so they are kind of camoflauged. But yea I agree with the OP, eclipse is just silly. No idea how that even became a thing and got past the drawing board. Gotta love all the L2P comments incoming from Magplars this patch. Only the good ones and content streamers admit that it is overtuned. This patch blows.

irstarkey57

Ucarious wrote: »

Why do I feel like the people complaining the most about the changes are the ones refusing to revamp their builds to suit the "meta"? Honestly, you do realize Hist and Curse Eater sets exist right? Sure you lose out on some of your previous patches build damage but from the looks of PvP in this new patch, straight damage isn't the way to go anymore but a balance of defense and damage.


P.S. I don't play the 3 meta classes (DK, Warden and Templar) so drop that assumption before you even make it.

Ummm, Magsorc not meta??????

magictucktuck

Immobilize and snares are horrible this patch, I run shuffle instead of rally or forward momentum though and run 7 medium and a few percent damage reduction modifiers from skills to be really tanky and it works great and of course weapon damage pots since no brutality on bars. Maybe that will help you enjoy a little more?

Ucarious

irstarkey57 wrote: »

Ucarious wrote: »

Why do I feel like the people complaining the most about the changes are the ones refusing to revamp their builds to suit the "meta"? Honestly, you do realize Hist and Curse Eater sets exist right? Sure you lose out on some of your previous patches build damage but from the looks of PvP in this new patch, straight damage isn't the way to go anymore but a balance of defense and damage.


P.S. I don't play the 3 meta classes (DK, Warden and Templar) so drop that assumption before you even make it.

Ummm, Magsorc not meta??????

MagSorc compared to the 3 I mentioned isn't played as much and isn't in what I would exactly call a meta state. It's good, but it isn't in the top 3 which is what most flavor players look at.

Wayshuba

Trancestor wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

I do hate the new perma-root Living Dark, but I love D-Swing and feel like it's perfectly balanced now.

Most of the other changes have been fine with me. Healers are still aids but that's nothing new vs last patch.

A practically insta cast spammable that deals 40%+ more dmg than any other spammable and stuns at the same time is balanced ok.

And thus why EVERY BUILD is running it. Doesn't matter what class, you run two hand with dizzy swing, execute and critical rush combined with Soul Trap and Entropy....... As I said, boring and homogenized.

This isn't about a new meta. It is about a balance patch so bad that there is no class identity anymore. Might as well get rid of the classes at this point.

evoniee

i like that op have same opinion as me and brave enough to mention those 4 broken skills

Wayshuba

Ucarious wrote: »

Why do I feel like the people complaining the most about the changes are the ones refusing to revamp their builds to suit the "meta"? Honestly, you do realize Hist and Curse Eater sets exist right? Sure you lose out on some of your previous patches build damage but from the looks of PvP in this new patch, straight damage isn't the way to go anymore but a balance of defense and damage.


P.S. I don't play the 3 meta classes (DK, Warden and Templar) so drop that assumption before you even make it.

There's revamping - which I have done almost every patch in the 2.5 years I have been playing this game without a single complaint - and then there is the complete loss of class identity with this patch.

In BGs, most Magicka class (except maybe Magplar) would run a combo of destro/destro or desto/resto.

You would run into Stam classes running dual wield as much as two-hand.

Now this patch EVERYONE is running two-hand because of how stupid the Dizzy Swing spammable is. No matter what class.

EVERYONE is also running at least Soul Trap (because it is easy to get) and definitely Entropy (if you leveled the Mages guild line enough).

Looking at death recaps, all you see is Dizzy Swing, Execute, Critical Rush, Soul Trap and Entropy. Every single time you die.

Eclipse used to be used in certain Templar builds - but now it is a staple in every single one.

It was NEVER like this prior to the Scalecaller patch. Ever. And I have played more BGs than I can count at this point.

Waffennacht

You do not need to invest much to kill in BGs at all.

Let's see, almost all my builds run 0 or 1 purely offensive set.

Curse eater and steadfast works quite well for survivability, personally also pair with a purge ability (Betty, expunge, etc)
(Major protection is best imo)

Again, using mobility to keep position out of reapplications of dots and snares.

I'm still running swift steed on many builds

Revokus

Damage is way too high in bg's and then you hear people trying to defend no-cp as if it's more balanced than cp lol

wheem_ESO

Revokus wrote: »

Damage is way too high in bg's and then you hear people trying to defend no-cp as if it's more balanced than cp lol

Nah, the 11,065 damage Onslaught I took a little bit ago was totally balanced.

Revokus

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Revokus wrote: »

Damage is way too high in bg's and then you hear people trying to defend no-cp as if it's more balanced than cp lol

Nah, the 11,065 damage Onslaught I took a little bit ago was totally balanced.

Haha yeah onslaught is cancer right now in no cp like damage wasn’t already off the roof in there..I still prefer and find cp cyro to be much more balanced.