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3 Underperforming Skills that Should be Addressed in Update 24

  • WrathOfInnos
    WrathOfInnos
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    Starlock wrote: »
    While I'm still not positive this is really what happened last patch, I'm going to add this:

    Destructive Clench: Lightning Staff Only
    This morph is supposed to provide utility instead of damage over time, except it doesn't on a lightning staff. Why? Because they removed the stun. Now all it does is an AoE around target, which can also be gotten by the Impulse morph Elemental Ring, which is significantly better than Destructive Clench on both the damage, range, and flexibility. The only thing Destructive Clench has going for it is easier aiming (at least on console) as placed AoE effects can be a bit difficult to target sometimes. But other than that, Destructive Clench needs it's stun back for the lightning staff in order to be remotely useful and not an inferior version of Elemental Ring.

    You have a point. It seems like Clench is now intended to be the PVP morph, which has a range restriction and provides CC. Reach is now the PVE DoT morph. IMO Shock Clench should get its stun back, and Shock Reach should get the splash damage (maybe make the splash a base effect on Destructive Touch). In its current form Flame is always better than Shock for this skill, while it should be balanced with Flame giving more single target damage and Shock giving more AoE damage.
  • SidraWillowsky
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    Gaggin wrote: »
    These skills aren't suffering so much as this patch's combat changes make them not worth slotting a lot of the time. Curse is alright, though compared to any dot it doesn't look as good, aoe dots are just trash right now, very short-sighted on zos's part.

    Winter's Revenge is OK enough to still slot, especially for mobs. Twisting Path was nerfed into uselessness- there is zero reason to slot it now.
  • Starlock
    Starlock
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    Starlock wrote: »
    While I'm still not positive this is really what happened last patch, I'm going to add this:

    Destructive Clench: Lightning Staff Only
    This morph is supposed to provide utility instead of damage over time, except it doesn't on a lightning staff. Why? Because they removed the stun. Now all it does is an AoE around target, which can also be gotten by the Impulse morph Elemental Ring, which is significantly better than Destructive Clench on both the damage, range, and flexibility. The only thing Destructive Clench has going for it is easier aiming (at least on console) as placed AoE effects can be a bit difficult to target sometimes. But other than that, Destructive Clench needs it's stun back for the lightning staff in order to be remotely useful and not an inferior version of Elemental Ring.

    You have a point. It seems like Clench is now intended to be the PVP morph, which has a range restriction and provides CC. Reach is now the PVE DoT morph. IMO Shock Clench should get its stun back, and Shock Reach should get the splash damage (maybe make the splash a base effect on Destructive Touch). In its current form Flame is always better than Shock for this skill, while it should be balanced with Flame giving more single target damage and Shock giving more AoE damage.

    I would keep Clench if it still had the stun for PvE because stuns are fun when doing overland stuff. They should switch to to a "middle ground" between what it used to be and what it is now. I'd change it to a single-target stun with 25% AoE damage on surrounding targets and no DoT.
  • ThePedge
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    Haunting Curse and Winters Revenge are fine
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    Winter’s Revenge
    While seemingly brought to the same standard as other AoE DoTs, this one is actually significantly weaker for a few reasons. Using Liquid Lightning and Blazing Spear as a comparison, we can see that WR is about 4% weaker than LL in raw damage, and LL itself is weaker than BS when considering the Burning Light procs. This wouldn’t be too far off, except for its additional inherent weaknesses. Both Lightning and Spear offer synergies for the group (very important in the Lokkestiiz stam mata), while Winter’s brings nothing of value to the group. WR is also frost damage, which is not as valuable as Fire or Shock from a damage standpoint (Burning and Concussion are more important than Chilled). WR does not offer any useful passives for slotting (Blazing Spear gives 10% crit damage and Liquid Lightning gives 2% Spell Damage), just a small amount of resistance that matters little on a damage build. WR also has a relatively small radius of 6m compared to Blazing Spear’s 8m (although it is larger than Liquid Lightning’s 4m). IMO Winter’s Revenge needs an increase to one or more of the following: size, damage, or group utility. One interesting way to do this would be to have it function like Engulfing Flames for 10% Frost Damage Vulnerability applied for 12s (or while in the AoE). This wouldn’t be a massive buff to its own damage, but it would make allies’ Force Pulse, Boneyard, and Glacial Colossus hit harder, making a Magden DPS less of a detriment to a group (and possibly even desirable in a group with multiple Mag Necromancers). This would also go a long way toward making Frost Mage DPS viable in PVE.

    Just something to add here, i think a partially related problem here is that glacial presence clearly isn't a finished passive and it's also not quite effective as it once was. Arctic Blast used to have a 30% chilled proc rate on it. Fast forward to today, where barely any of the skills deal reliable frost damage, the passive is just damn useless. we don't have a controllable single target frost damage skill to really utilise this passive. and one thing that really irks me is that they added bonus chilled chance to Winter's Revenge. why? Glacial Presence is literally right there and it does just that! The passive is so so bad at the moment it's not funny. Not to mention frozen armour and icy aura are also less than desirable. Winter's Revenge isn't the only thing to look at. More like half of the line including passives and certain morphs.

    If Glacial Presence it were to boost warden's... say, critical damage or chances against a chilled enemy, that would make frost quite a bit better as a dps element for Warden, not only on Magicka Warden, but also for Stamina Warden in groups. It wouldn't fix everything mind you. But it would go a long way when it comes to those of us who desire Magicka Warden to be Frost Mage. Winter's Revenge still lacks. And it should gain a truly unique effect, just like other lacking Warden DPS skills that already exist like Dive and Swarm. And then we still lack damage skills, which can be made from reworking underperforming Winter's Embrace skills.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on August 29, 2019 12:08PM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • kylewwefan
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    Did anyone mention caltrops? It has been a Stam staple skill for years, now rendered poor.

    There was a time when Caltrops were the size of a football field and lasted 30 seconds and could proc sets like briarhearts. Now it’s fairly worthless. Maybe it could help redeem the ravager set, but that comes at a significant cost.

    Not sure what standards it’s adhering to now, but it needs something else
  • evoniee
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    as soon as i see hauntig curse in op post:
    this guy's joke isn't funny
  • WrathOfInnos
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    evoniee wrote: »
    as soon as i see hauntig curse in op post:
    this guy's joke isn't funny

    PVP Nightblade spotted ;). I’m sure that there is a solution that could fix the PVE problem without breaking the skill in PVP. To be clear, I think it is a problem that Haunting Curse is inferior to: Scalding Rune, Soul Trap, Entropy, Flame Reach and even Mystic Orb. Losing DPS by using one of your class-defining skills over a similar generic skill is not acceptable. Other classes do not have to deal with this situation, since their single target DoTs (Vamp Bane, Fetcher Infection, Crippling Grasp, and Burning Embers) are all worth slotting (either for damage, or utility/passives, sometimes both), even if it means dropping something like Scalding Rune. Additionally, Curse has the limitation of one target, deals no damage if the target dies before the tick, cannot be overcast to fit different rotation timings, does not benefit from Thaumaturge, deals the worst damage type (magic) and offers very little utility (only the Daedric Protection passive, and the 2% Spell Damage for slotting any Sorc skill).

    The only reasons to use Curse are to line up a burst combo with the delayed damage, or to pull someone out of stealth, and neither of these are needed in PVE.
  • GhostofDatthaw
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    The clench and reach skills were fine the way they were. No reason for these stupid changes.
  • WrathOfInnos
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    Well 2/3 of these just had their damage reduced on PTS. Winter’s Revenge and Twisting Path both deal 33% less damage than on live. Two useless skills, now made so much worse. I’m really starting to lose faith in the direction of this game...
  • OG_Kaveman
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    Well 2/3 of these just had their damage reduced on PTS. Winter’s Revenge and Twisting Path both deal 33% less damage than on live. Two useless skills, now made so much worse. I’m really starting to lose faith in the direction of this game...

    are they useless though? the relative damage is going to be around the same as a single target dot now. so really the only difference between single and aoe dots is going to be cost.
  • WrathOfInnos
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    OG_Kaveman wrote: »
    Well 2/3 of these just had their damage reduced on PTS. Winter’s Revenge and Twisting Path both deal 33% less damage than on live. Two useless skills, now made so much worse. I’m really starting to lose faith in the direction of this game...

    are they useless though? the relative damage is going to be around the same as a single target dot now. so really the only difference between single and aoe dots is going to be cost.

    They are definitely both useless. WR and TP dealing 1.25X the damage of an Elemental Weapon, over 12s, and costing much more Magicka, makes them not worth casting. Using that skill slot for a passive would result in more total DPS. Especially when considering the effects of Spell Orb, which makes Ele Weapon equivalent to 1.1 spammables, and status effects (which Twisting Path cannot proc, and Winter’s Revenge can only cause chilled).
  • GeorgeBlack
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    Buff Haunting Curse?
    No mate
  • milesrodneymcneely2_ESO
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    Concealed Weapon (Veiled Strike morph) could really use some attention. There's not a lot in the MagBlade's kit in the way of melee building, and the fact that you need to run Shadowy Disguise on the same bar in order for 66% of the functionality to work is really limiting.

    I'd like to see the speed boost rolled into the base skill, and something like Minor Breach added to CW. Just a thought.
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