Rapids Major Expedition to 8s - Why?

BurningSnowman

As I go about various daily "administrative" tasks on my multitude of characters (daily crafting writs, etc) I am finding more and more annoying each and every day the Major Expedition change of Rapids Maneuver from 30s to 8s. I can't find any real reason as to why ZOS did this and I haven't found anyone who posted any type of explanation as to why this changed improved or balanced....anything. I have found this change to be unnecessary in any way, shape or form and seemingly provides absolutely no benefit in exchange for the reduction. So, would some folks be kind enough to:
1) Explain why ZOS felt this change was necessary and/or good. I care nothing about any of the other changes made to RM or it's morphs - why was the running speed duration reduced?
2) Explain how this change actually affected gameplay of any kind in a positive way? Did it provide some kind of balance somewhere, somehow? Did it fix a giant or even small problem that was causing issues somewhere in the game?

OG_Kaveman

the major gallop last for the whole 30 seconds. just get on your horse.

Ectheliontnacil

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

the major gallop last for the whole 30 seconds. just get on your horse.

That's not the point and you know it.

BurningSnowman

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

the major gallop last for the whole 30 seconds. just get on your horse.

Sure, sure. As I run from crafting station to crafting station in Alinor I will just jump on my mount....oh wait...I can't...those areas don't allow for mounting.

OG_Kaveman

BurningSnowman wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

the major gallop last for the whole 30 seconds. just get on your horse.

Sure, sure. As I run from crafting station to crafting station in Alinor I will just jump on my mount....oh wait...I can't...those areas don't allow for mounting.

How dramatic.

Taleof2Cities

That ship has sailed, @BurningSnowman.

Rapids is a PvP skill. The ZOS design change was with that in mind.

In other words, they weren’t trying to blanket nerf farmers and crafters.

If you think Rapids is the only source of Major Expedition in the game, then I suggest you do some online research to improve your game knowledge.

Kiralyn2000

BurningSnowman wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

the major gallop last for the whole 30 seconds. just get on your horse.

Sure, sure. As I run from crafting station to crafting station in Alinor I will just jump on my mount....oh wait...I can't...those areas don't allow for mounting.

A 30s speed boost is important to do your writs faster? Really?

(if doing writs faster is important to you, why aren't you doing them in Morrowind, where the stations are closer together and the bank & wayshrine are vastly closer?)

Major_Lag

BurningSnowman wrote: »

1) Explain why ZOS felt this change was necessary and/or good. I care nothing about any of the other changes made to RM or it's morphs - why was the running speed duration reduced?
2) Explain how this change actually affected gameplay of any kind in a positive way? Did it provide some kind of balance somewhere, somehow? Did it fix a giant or even small problem that was causing issues somewhere in the game?

You are overthinking it.
It's just yet another idiotic PvP-oriented change that no one asked for in the first place.

They couldn't leave the Major Expedition duration at 30 seconds, because now the skill no longer gets cancelled when you deal or take any damage, or use another ability.
So it would have been crazy "broken"/OP in PvP.
A good while ago, there was already a "speed meta" with the Swift traits, before that got nerfed.

So instead of making the skill revert to old behavior in PvE, @ZOS decided it will be preferable to instead inconvenience millions of players for the sake of maybe a few thousand.
Nothing new to see here, move along.

BurningSnowman

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

That ship has sailed, @BurningSnowman.

Rapids is a PvP skill. The ZOS design change was with that in mind.

In other words, they weren’t trying to blanket nerf farmers and crafters.

If you think Rapids is the only source of Major Expedition in the game, then I suggest you do some online research to improve your game knowledge.

Yeah, unfortunately I was hoping it was more than that "This is a PvP skill, therefore it should only be designed around PvP, despite how it's been used for 5 years." RM is arguably one of the most used utility skills in the game by everyone; despite it being acquired under a PvP skill line, it takes absolutely no contact with another player to obtain. Jump into cyrodil, see warlord Dortene, say no training, bam! RM and two skill points. I would have liked to have seen ZOS put some thought and consideration into who was actually using the skill, how they were using it and why they were using it before they went ahead and blanket nerfed farmers and crafters because "it's a PvP skill."

Yeah, I do know there are lots of other ways to get Major Expedition, but that would require a tremendous amount of time and effort to re-gear, adjust, re-skill (and for several characters go get more skill points) 24 characters across two accounts.

Regardless, thank you for making an effort at a considered response.

BurningSnowman

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

BurningSnowman wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

the major gallop last for the whole 30 seconds. just get on your horse.

Sure, sure. As I run from crafting station to crafting station in Alinor I will just jump on my mount....oh wait...I can't...those areas don't allow for mounting.

A 30s speed boost is important to do your writs faster? Really?

(if doing writs faster is important to you, why aren't you doing them in Morrowind, where the stations are closer together and the bank & wayshrine are vastly closer?)

In short, yes.
I have the crown store banker, bank location is irrelevant. These are pure crafting characters, they never go anywhere so have no need for wayshrines.

Mancombe_Nosehair

BurningSnowman wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

BurningSnowman wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

the major gallop last for the whole 30 seconds. just get on your horse.

Sure, sure. As I run from crafting station to crafting station in Alinor I will just jump on my mount....oh wait...I can't...those areas don't allow for mounting.

A 30s speed boost is important to do your writs faster? Really?

(if doing writs faster is important to you, why aren't you doing them in Morrowind, where the stations are closer together and the bank & wayshrine are vastly closer?)

In short, yes.
I have the crown store banker, bank location is irrelevant. These are pure crafting characters, they never go anywhere so have no need for wayshrines.

If you have banker, then you have even more reason to use Mournhold or reapers marsh instead.

GarnetFire17

Wow I thought I was the only one that thought this skill was OP, good to see it get a nerf.

BurningSnowman

[/quote]

If you have banker, then you have even more reason to use Mournhold or reapers marsh instead.[/quote]

After they changed it so the top level writs no longer required turn in at Belkarth and before I got Tythis, I did go to Rawl'kha for a while specifically because of how close the bank was. But I never cared for the actual crafting route from station to station. After Tythis was obtained, I did go to Mournhold which was better, but having to go in an out of a building for the enchanting station was annoying. I much prefer the way Alinor is set-up; it's neat, orderly, logical and there are no doors to bother with. Additionally I only do the writs every other day - day one I pick them up on each character, day two I run each character through the tables twice. The side by side writ boards in Alinor means I only have to log in, grab the writs, and log out to the next character on day one. After running the circuit twice on day two, I park the character between the two boards and ready to go for next day one pickup. No other crafting area offers that convenience.

zaria

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

BurningSnowman wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

the major gallop last for the whole 30 seconds. just get on your horse.

Sure, sure. As I run from crafting station to crafting station in Alinor I will just jump on my mount....oh wait...I can't...those areas don't allow for mounting.

How dramatic.

it also hurt farming skyshards in delves. Back then we had overload it was fun to have rapid on it as healer.
Another nerf because of PvP, people running away from an fight, can not have that.

DLM

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

That ship has sailed, @BurningSnowman.

Rapids is a PvP skill. The ZOS design change was with that in mind.

So Purge being in a PvP skill line should only be used in PvP? You know very well that this argument is BS. Many skills/passives in various lines have uses outside their line.

PizzaCat82

Alinor is the best crafting spot if you don't need banker or horse training, otherwise Rawkhla.

The stations are the closest (All of them, not just most) and the turn in station is right around the corner.

vgabor

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Alinor is the best crafting spot if you don't need banker or horse training, otherwise Rawkhla.

My personal opinion, Vivec is the best crafting spot.

ArchMikem

Speed builds are a thing, people in Cyrodiil Sonic-ing everywhere. Seems they wanted to make it more expensive for the runners to keep running.

Zorgon_The_Revenged

Fiords legacy and cowards gear, that's what my sonic-the-crafter wears.

BahometZ

I'd like to know why they changed the skill to no longer end when a combat action is performed, which seems to be the driver for changing the duration of major expedition.

This just seems to be change with little discernible purpose or improvement, just frustrating a tonne of players who are economy driven. Farmers and crafters, people who fill out the variety of people who help the ESO economy tick along. I wish more players were able to consider other people's experience and recognise the value it brings.

Major_Lag

ArchMikem wrote: »

Speed builds are a thing, people in Cyrodiil Sonic-ing everywhere. Seems they wanted to make it more expensive for the runners to keep running.

Except that your argument makes little sense.

Back when Rapids used to be cancelled by any offensive actions, it didn't matter much that anyone could Sonic around, because the instant they engaged another player, their very cheap Major Expedition would be instantly cancelled.

PvP-wise, about the only significant effect of this change is that it brings stamina and magicka sources of Major Expedition (usable in combat!) closer in line with each other - so that everyone has mostly-equal access to a viable non-class ability which gives Major Expedition, with the effective cost per second being roughly similar in both cases. (Rapids for stam, RAT for mag)

ArchMikem

Major_Lag wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Speed builds are a thing, people in Cyrodiil Sonic-ing everywhere. Seems they wanted to make it more expensive for the runners to keep running.

Except that your argument makes little sense.

Back when Rapids used to be cancelled by any offensive actions, it didn't matter much that anyone could Sonic around, because the instant they engaged another player, their very cheap Major Expedition would be instantly cancelled.

...i did not know that. I never used rapids so i assumed how it worked.

idk

Being this change was announced and opened up for feedback a full 7 weeks ago this ship has sailed and the feedback is way late now. No offense, but just stating the facts on the matter.

Being the effects of rapids continues after use of a healing or damage skill and the gallop continues for the full 30 seconds this change seems pretty good overall. Sorry OP is put out but maybe next time they will take note of the PTS patch notes and maybe get into some testing.

BTW, next PTS will go live in about 5-8 week (roughly). Might want to start keeping an eye on the forums a couple weeks before then.

Edit: in case it was not clear, Zos seemed to think having the major expedition continue after the use of a heal or damage skill was a good thing since that is part of the reason for the skill. With the changes they have made during the past year to expedition seemed they think it makes sense this skill has a shorter duration and especially since it continues after combat is started.

Hotdog_23

idk wrote: »

Being this change was announced and opened up for feedback a full 7 weeks ago this ship has sailed and the feedback is way late now. No offense, but just stating the facts on the matter.

Being the effects of rapids continues after use of a healing or damage skill and the gallop continues for the full 30 seconds this change seems pretty good overall. Sorry OP is put out but maybe next time they will take note of the PTS patch notes and maybe get into some testing.

BTW, next PTS will go live in about 5-8 week (roughly). Might want to start keeping an eye on the forums a couple weeks before then.

Feedback was given they just ignored it. I am on console and I am not looking forward to this change at all. They could have changed it differently but again they chose not to.

ZOS could have easily made the base skill only affect the caster and not others. One morph would affect your group up to 12 but only last 8 seconds. The other morph would only affect the caster still but add the minor expedition for 15 seconds or 8 like the original skill.

Metafae

I just switched to channeled acceleration. The main issue for me was loosing the ability to speed through a delve.

But despite the skill saying gives you immunity to snares, it never prevented the "Hamstrung" snare, which was the only snare that I cared about anyway.

Please ZoS, remove Hamstrung already.

BahometZ

idk wrote: »

Being this change was announced and opened up for feedback a full 7 weeks ago this ship has sailed and the feedback is way late now. No offense, but just stating the facts on the matter.

Being the effects of rapids continues after use of a healing or damage skill and the gallop continues for the full 30 seconds this change seems pretty good overall. Sorry OP is put out but maybe next time they will take note of the PTS patch notes and maybe get into some testing.

BTW, next PTS will go live in about 5-8 week (roughly). Might want to start keeping an eye on the forums a couple weeks before then.

Edit: in case it was not clear, Zos seemed to think having the major expedition continue after the use of a heal or damage skill was a good thing since that is part of the reason for the skill. With the changes they have made during the past year to expedition seemed they think it makes sense this skill has a shorter duration and especially since it continues after combat is started.

I mean there were posts in the PTS forum complaining about this, and they were disregarded. Zos have their vision.

Also console people have no way to test it, so it's a fresh issue for them as patch drops tomorrow.

So, thanks for your input I guess.

DarcyMardin

Why? PvP, of course. /sigh

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

BurningSnowman wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

the major gallop last for the whole 30 seconds. just get on your horse.

Sure, sure. As I run from crafting station to crafting station in Alinor I will just jump on my mount....oh wait...I can't...those areas don't allow for mounting.

vivec city is best for those.

Tsar_Gekkou

They saw people using it too much to speed through the thieves guild and dark brotherhood dailies during the event.

Kelces

Maybe it's to counter the so-called "wall joggers" of Cyrodiil...

Major_Lag

idk wrote: »

Being this change was announced and opened up for feedback a full 7 weeks ago this ship has sailed and the feedback is way late now.

There was feedback. Plenty of it, for that matter. And ZOS ignored all of it

Raiden_Gekkou wrote: »

They saw people using it too much to speed through the thieves guild and dark brotherhood dailies during the event.

Nice try, but not even close.
It's a PvP "change"; I sincerely doubt that the magnitude of the impact on PvEers was under consideration by ZOS for even a single moment there.

Metafae wrote: »

I just switched to channeled acceleration. (...)
But despite the skill saying gives you immunity to snares, it never prevented the "Hamstrung" snare, which was the only snare that I cared about anyway.

CA does not give you snare immunity, the other morph (RAT) does.
But RAT's snare immunity is kinda wonky. It fails to function on some of the snares in PvE, for example spike trap snares.